Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 05/17/03 (Mark Weiss)
2. 01:01 AM - Re: What Walmart tires? (Phil & Michele Miller)
3. 01:14 AM - Re: 601HD real world cruise speed (Richard McLachlan)
4. 06:36 AM - Southwest Regional Fly-In (Joseph Kintz)
5. 07:07 AM - Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In (Clifton J. Bardwell)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Don Walker)
7. 07:25 AM - Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In (ac6qj@earthlink.net)
8. 07:37 AM - Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In (Randall Thomure)
9. 07:41 AM - Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In (Michael Murphy)
10. 07:41 AM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Cy Galley)
11. 07:55 AM - Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In (Pwalsh4539@aol.com)
12. 08:04 AM - Re: What Walmart tires? (Cy Galley)
13. 08:41 AM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Benford2@aol.com)
14. 10:16 AM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Randy L. Thwing)
15. 10:47 AM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Cy Galley)
16. 10:57 AM - More EAA ? (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
17. 11:06 AM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
18. 11:06 AM - Re: More EAA ? (ac6qj@earthlink.net)
19. 12:12 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Cy Galley)
20. 12:27 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Cy Galley)
21. 12:29 PM - Re: More EAA ? (Cy Galley)
22. 12:31 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (ac6qj@earthlink.net)
23. 12:58 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (GW)
24. 01:31 PM - Re: More EAA ? (Morse code) (Carlos Sa)
25. 01:59 PM - To whom do we comment? (Jeff Small)
26. 02:47 PM - Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In (Jeff Small)
27. 02:59 PM - Re: 601HD real world cruise speed (Brian Caithcart)
28. 03:10 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Cy Galley)
29. 03:18 PM - Re: To whom do we comment? (Cy Galley)
30. 03:29 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Cy Galley)
31. 03:57 PM - Re: More EAA ? (Matthew P. Cummings)
32. 06:10 PM - EAA Bashing (Elwood140@aol.com)
33. 06:35 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Greg Ferris)
34. 06:42 PM - Prop (The Meiste's)
35. 06:52 PM - EAA sucks (Fred Poor)
36. 07:41 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (Cy Galley)
37. 07:45 PM - Re: EAA sucks (Robert Hillebrand)
38. 08:13 PM - Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? (wizard-24@juno.com)
39. 08:30 PM - Re: EAA Bashing (Benford2@aol.com)
40. 10:28 PM - Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In (Gary Gower)
41. 10:34 PM - Re: What Walmart tires? (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 05/17/03 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Weiss <mkweiss@palm.net>
Hi:
You have sent Mark Weiss an email. He is on vacation and will get back
to you when he returns.
Thanks
Mark Weiss
This message was sent from my Palm wireless email account.
Message 2
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| Subject: | What Walmart tires? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
Hi, Guys,
Several years ago I worked as a tire salesman so have a little working
knowledge of tires although not of the aircraft variety.
The "Not for Highway Use" designation relates mainly to the speed that a
wheelbarrow tire is designed to operate at. At highway speeds, cornering
(side) loads are much higher than the tire is designed for. There are
other considerations also such as rubber compound suitability the
possibility of heat buildup. The risk of a blowout is real. Side loads
are certainly a significant factor to be considered for aircraft tires.
A blowout when tracking straight down the runway will cause a sudden,
large increase in rolling resistance on that side resulting in a severe
pull to that side which you may or mat not be able to counter with
rudder/steering/differential braking. If it occurs during a muffed
crosswind landing when tracking sideways, the wheel may dig in and put
enormous side load on the landing gear. The scenarios are easy to
imagine - collapsed gear/prop strike/wing damage.
I guess it's up to each aircraft owner to make the call as they see fit
but make sure you have all the information on which to make an INFORMED
decision.
Here's a thought to end with: I understand that Ken Brock (of gyroplane
fame) died when landing a taildragger that swerved off the runway into a
tree when the tailwheel failed. As noted above, a blowout could cause a
similar accident. The right tires for the job are good insurance.
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
(701 912S)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of g t
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What Walmart tires?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
At least at one time, trailer tires had a stronger side wall
construction due to the load and the bouncing of the load one can get on
highways. I do not know if this is true today anymore, but it would be
worth the research before one tries a trailer tire or a wheelbarrow
tire. Others please post as I will if I find additonal information.
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR AIRPLANE IF YOU BLOW A TIRE ON
LANDING?????
Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> There is logic here that says as the wheelbarrow tires are so light
> one could carry a spare in the tail behind the seats when heading to
> one of these places...Assuming you don't wreck the airframe if it
> happened you would at least be able to get home.
I've never been able to find a definitive answer to the 'not for hiway
use' wheelbarrow tire / trailer tire discussion...but I have a theory
that the trailer tire tread is 'hardened' in some way that makes it
suitable for long hours of high speed running on ashphalt/pavement.
The experience on this list with the original wheelbarrow tires seems to
bear this out. Those working from grass strips seem to get a lot more
use from these tires than those running on paved airports.
And when you think of it, our aircraft don't spend enough time on the
ground to heat the tires up significantly, so I think it all comes down
to load capability more than tread wear, especially if you're not always
on the pavement.
I'd like to get more technical information to affirm or refute my
theory... if anyone finds a good 'tire' theory page on the net
somewhere???....
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
---------------------------------
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD real world cruise speed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard McLachlan <richard@foxfield.demon.co.uk>
We get an indicated 110 kts @ 5000 RPM 3 blade Warp Drive set to 15 deg.
80 HP Rotax. However, we have no static system and have measured ASI as
15 kts over at this speed. Hence true speed probably 95 kts.
Richard
In article <200305171411.h4HEBYT21000@matronics.com>, Cleone
Markwell <cleone@rr1.net> writes
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell <cleone@rr1.net>
>
>Brian, In cold weather I can actually see 100mph, at 3000 msl, at 5500 rpm,
>but not in hot wx. I have the 80 hp Rotax and have my ASI checked out
>pretty close. I was disappointed also, but this is the real world. I
>don't know how some fellows get 20 mph more. Perhaps without a good static
>system. Cleone
>
>
>At 06:14 PM 5/16/03 -0600, you wrote:
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Caithcart" <bcaithcart@hotmail.com>
>>
>>
>>What is the REALWORLD cruise speed for a CH601HD. I've heard from many
>>sources that the published 120mph cruise speed should be more like 100mph. I
>>need to know for when I order my prop. What are the 601HD flyers on the list
>>getting for cruise speed?
>>
>>Brian Caithcart
>>Saskatoon, Sask.
>>CH601HD/corvair
>>
>>
>
>
>==============
>==============
>==============
>==============
>
>
--
Richard McLachlan
CH601HDS/R22 G3OQT
Landing Site info at http://www.foxfield.demon.co.uk
Message 4
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| Subject: | Southwest Regional Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joseph Kintz <kintzjd@rocketmail.com>
I just got back from the EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In in New Braunfels, TX.
There were somewhere around 200 homebuilts and restorations to see, but not a
single Zenith. The most popular kits were RV's. Nice looking planes and
impressive performance numbers. For someone who is still in the dreaming
stage, why did you choose a Zenith over, say, an RV-7A or RV-9A?
Joe
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Southwest Regional Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif@duck.org>
Two reasons:
1. The CH-640 is a four seater
2. I wanted to work by myself most of the time which precludes bucked
rivets.
Clif
CH-640
http://homebuilt.duck.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph
Kintz
Subject: Zenith-List: Southwest Regional Fly-In
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joseph Kintz <kintzjd@rocketmail.com>
I just got back from the EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In in New Braunfels,
TX.
There were somewhere around 200 homebuilts and restorations to see, but
not a single Zenith. The most popular kits were RV's. Nice looking
planes and impressive performance numbers. For someone who is still in
the dreaming stage, why did you choose a Zenith over, say, an RV-7A or
RV-9A?
Joe
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Interestingly enough our local chapter has 15 or 20 members and no home
builders. I gave them a program a few years ago and was to find little
interest in homebuilt aircraft. None of the homebuilders around here are
members. hmmmm Don Walker HDS do not archive.
>From: Benford2@aol.com
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
>Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 23:53:05 EDT
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 5/17/2003 9:34:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
>zodiacjeff@msn.com writes:
>
>
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> >
> > Opened today's issue of EAA e-HOT LINE and read that eight more pilots
>have
> > been selected to fly their states' flag to FFA as part of the "50 Flags
>to
> > Kitty Hawk" program.
> >
> > None of the eight are flying homebuilt a/c as part of this centennial
> > celebration of the world's first homebuilt. Instead we have a Cessna
>172,
> > a Mooney, and a Skylane as part of the parade of a/c participating.
> >
> > Would seem to me that the organization that began its existence with
> > interest in homebuilts and whose first name is "Experimental" might want
>to
> > pick some pilots and aircraft that reflect that interest.
> >
> > Yes, I applied to the program, and no, I wasn't selected to be the
> > Pennsylvania pilot; maybe that explains my dissatisfaction. The
>"roots"
> > of EAA (the Chapters) may still grow in the garages and workshops of its
> > members, but the national organization seems to be lured by the big
>money
> > of interests like Ford and Eclipse.
> >
> > My grumpy two-cents worth.jeff
> >
> >
>
>AMEN to all that. It has turned into the Poberancy's private assoc.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net
>For someone who is still in the dreaming stage, why did you choose a
>Zenith over, say, an RV-7A or RV-9A?
>
One simple reason: The noise of a compressor and bucking rivets!!!
--
Best regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
Message 8
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| Subject: | Southwest Regional Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Thomure" <rthomure@ameritech.net>
I was real close to going to the RV-9, but it came down to 3 things:
1. Cost - including tooling - engine - kit
2. Time to build - 500 -vs- 2000 (then double for the real number).
3. Ease of construction - Blind rivets -vs- driven rivets. Since I
am on my own, this was a key consideration.
This is my first kit. First, I needed to prove to my self that I could
build it to my standards. Second, I needed to not get in too much
trouble with The Boss (my wife).
I am already looking ahead to second project will be for a faster plane
- an RV-9A or a Lancair. TBD at a much later date.
Don't let the number of RV's steer you away from a great plane and
building experience.
RT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph
Kintz
Subject: Zenith-List: Southwest Regional Fly-In
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joseph Kintz <kintzjd@rocketmail.com>
I just got back from the EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In in New Braunfels,
TX.
There were somewhere around 200 homebuilts and restorations to see, but
not a
single Zenith. The most popular kits were RV's. Nice looking planes
and
impressive performance numbers. For someone who is still in the
dreaming
stage, why did you choose a Zenith over, say, an RV-7A or RV-9A?
Joe
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Murphy <michaelmurphy2562@yahoo.com>
Hey Joseph,
I am in the dreaming stage and I wanted to build an RV 7. I have since started
to consider the Zenith XL because I don't know yet if I can regain my medical.
I haven't flown in over three years because I was diagnosed as having MS in
July 2000. I have since regained all of my motor skills and can do everything
that I want to do. If it turns out that I can't get a third class medical then
I would be able to get a Sport Pilot Rating and fly the XL. I WILL fly again!
Joseph Kintz <kintzjd@rocketmail.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joseph Kintz
I just got back from the EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In in New Braunfels, TX.
There were somewhere around 200 homebuilts and restorations to see, but not a
single Zenith. The most popular kits were RV's. Nice looking planes and
impressive performance numbers. For someone who is still in the dreaming
stage, why did you choose a Zenith over, say, an RV-7A or RV-9A?
Joe
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I beg your pardon. What publication aren't you getting on time?
What do you gain with your comments without any positive suggestions for
improvement? There are many things that go on behind the scenes for your
benefit.
What would you change or add? Do you think EAA would have the same power
with the FAA if it was several little fragmented groups instead of one large
cohesive group.
Incidentally, If you think we are leaving something out, you are more than
welcome to write on the topic.
Cy Galley - life member, Chair; Emergency Aircraft Repair
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
>
> I joined the EAA in the '60's and it was a bunch of guys that loved
> homebuilt planes. Now the EAA is a money driven PAC (Political Action
> Committie) that tries to be all things to all airmen (which it cannot do).
>
> There needs to be seperate Associations for the many hats that EAA is
trying
> to wear. But, with Sport Pilot coming up the EAA will don yet another hat.
> They look sort of ridiculous with some many differnts hats,caps, fedoras
on
> their head all at once. Tom should have stayed with aerobatics. He does
not
> have the leadership ability of his father.
>
> Internally the place is a featherbed. They can not even get their
> publications out and delivered on time.
>
> GW
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Benford2@aol.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 5/17/2003 9:34:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> > zodiacjeff@msn.com writes:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> > >
> > > Opened today's issue of EAA e-HOT LINE and read that eight more pilots
> have
> > > been selected to fly their states' flag to FFA as part of the "50
Flags
> to
> > > Kitty Hawk" program.
> > >
> > > None of the eight are flying homebuilt a/c as part of this centennial
> > > celebration of the world's first homebuilt. Instead we have a Cessna
> 172,
> > > a Mooney, and a Skylane as part of the parade of a/c participating.
> > >
> > > Would seem to me that the organization that began its existence with
> > > interest in homebuilts and whose first name is "Experimental" might
want
> to
> > > pick some pilots and aircraft that reflect that interest.
> > >
> > > Yes, I applied to the program, and no, I wasn't selected to be the
> > > Pennsylvania pilot; maybe that explains my dissatisfaction. The
> "roots"
> > > of EAA (the Chapters) may still grow in the garages and workshops of
its
> > > members, but the national organization seems to be lured by the big
> money
> > > of interests like Ford and Eclipse.
> > >
> > > My grumpy two-cents worth.jeff
> > >
> > >
> >
> > AMEN to all that. It has turned into the Poberancy's private assoc.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com
Build time and cost. Comparing a Zenith to an RV is comparing apples to
oranges. Personally, as a first timer, I just thought (correctly, I think)
that the 601 or 701 was a more realistic goal. It surely flies great although
not fast, it is still on par speedwise with the 152s and 172s I was used to
flying and is better in all other ways.
If you want a faster, more expensive plane with a much longer build time,
opt for the RV. If you want a slower, less expensive, equally safe plane with
a short build time, opt for the Zenith designs.
Of course, I have never built an RV so my opinion is somewhat biased.
Patrick Walsh
601 HD
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: What Walmart tires? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Ken Brock was not killed due to the failure of the tailwheel. His T-18 hit
a cement post but what killed him was the unsecured tool box that hit him in
the head, not the loss of control, not the hitting of the cement post.
Marie had little but a few bruises from the accident and is still alive.
Point is that most tire blow outs are not as fatal. At the landing speed of
a Zenith a blowout should be little more than an inconvenience.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What Walmart tires?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller"
<millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
>
> Hi, Guys,
>
> Several years ago I worked as a tire salesman so have a little working
> knowledge of tires although not of the aircraft variety.
>
> The "Not for Highway Use" designation relates mainly to the speed that a
> wheelbarrow tire is designed to operate at. At highway speeds, cornering
> (side) loads are much higher than the tire is designed for. There are
> other considerations also such as rubber compound suitability the
> possibility of heat buildup. The risk of a blowout is real. Side loads
> are certainly a significant factor to be considered for aircraft tires.
>
> A blowout when tracking straight down the runway will cause a sudden,
> large increase in rolling resistance on that side resulting in a severe
> pull to that side which you may or mat not be able to counter with
> rudder/steering/differential braking. If it occurs during a muffed
> crosswind landing when tracking sideways, the wheel may dig in and put
> enormous side load on the landing gear. The scenarios are easy to
> imagine - collapsed gear/prop strike/wing damage.
>
> I guess it's up to each aircraft owner to make the call as they see fit
> but make sure you have all the information on which to make an INFORMED
> decision.
>
> Here's a thought to end with: I understand that Ken Brock (of gyroplane
> fame) died when landing a taildragger that swerved off the runway into a
> tree when the tailwheel failed. As noted above, a blowout could cause a
> similar accident. The right tires for the job are good insurance.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
> New Zealand
> (701 912S)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of g t
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What Walmart tires?
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
>
> At least at one time, trailer tires had a stronger side wall
> construction due to the load and the bouncing of the load one can get on
> highways. I do not know if this is true today anymore, but it would be
> worth the research before one tries a trailer tire or a wheelbarrow
> tire. Others please post as I will if I find additonal information.
>
> DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR AIRPLANE IF YOU BLOW A TIRE ON
> LANDING?????
>
>
> Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
>
> > From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
>
> > There is logic here that says as the wheelbarrow tires are so light
> > one could carry a spare in the tail behind the seats when heading to
> > one of these places...Assuming you don't wreck the airframe if it
> > happened you would at least be able to get home.
>
> I've never been able to find a definitive answer to the 'not for hiway
> use' wheelbarrow tire / trailer tire discussion...but I have a theory
> that the trailer tire tread is 'hardened' in some way that makes it
> suitable for long hours of high speed running on ashphalt/pavement.
>
> The experience on this list with the original wheelbarrow tires seems to
> bear this out. Those working from grass strips seem to get a lot more
> use from these tires than those running on paved airports.
>
> And when you think of it, our aircraft don't spend enough time on the
> ground to heat the tires up significantly, so I think it all comes down
> to load capability more than tread wear, especially if you're not always
> on the pavement.
>
> I'd like to get more technical information to affirm or refute my
> theory... if anyone finds a good 'tire' theory page on the net
> somewhere???....
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 5/18/2003 8:41:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
cgalley@qcbc.org writes:
>
> What do you gain with your comments without any positive suggestions for
> improvement? There are many things that go on behind the scenes for your
> benefit.
>
> What would you change or add? Do you think EAA would have the same power
> with the FAA if it was several little fragmented groups instead of one
> large
> cohesive group.
>
> Incidentally, If you think we are leaving something out, you are more than
> welcome to write on the topic.
>
> Cy Galley - life member, Chair; Emergency Aircraft Repair
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
>
Well, let me think....
First off the insurance fiasco last year got me really thinking of the
quality of the people in charge of the EAA. I was under the impression that
the EAA's primary purpose was to assist the Homebuilt / Experimental movement
in joining us all together so there is power in numbers. First, the
underwriter the EAA was in bed with dropped auto engine / alternative
powerplant builders, then the carrier started to NOT renew policies. Now
would'n ya think people at the Eaa home office would have had a better insite
to the problem. It was only after a bunch of builders started to complain
that they did something. The Eaa should be PRO active, NOT RE active.
Now, I understand that the new carrier is balking at alternative powerplants
again. I am president of the EAA Chapter 1049 here in Jackson Hole Wy. I put
in countless hours working through all the details to keep the chapter
thriving and without a dime in compensation. You, on the other hand, are
drawing a paycheck, benefit package and a pension from the EAA so I would
expect you paint a real rosy picture of the organization. We have flown 256
young eagles two years ago, last year it rained 4 out of 6 hours and we still
flew 219 kids. I do want to mention that Tom P attended our Young Eagles day
last year and he commented multiple times what a well run, safe, efficient
and enthusiastic event we put on. Funny though, when I read Sport Aviation
each month all I see is Pictures and articles on the Poberancy family
receiving awards and attending Banquets. He never did mention anything about
our chapter busting its ass to pass on the fever of flight in Sport Avaition.
I am working hard to organize this years Young Eagles event with a goal of
flying 300 kids on Sat July 12, 2003. Of course it helps to draw in kids
when we have some high profile members in our chapter like Dr Rich Sugden,
Harrison Ford, Jack Hagle and a host of other talented flyers. I will see
this event through and make it the best Young Eagles fly-in that EAA has ever
seen. After that I will resign and not renew my Eaa membership. I will be
damned if I will send in any more of my HARD earned money to the Eaa so the
the Poberancy family can keep their Fleet of toys flying and hog the
spotlight, all the while forgetting to give credit to the grass roots effort
that keep the EAA alive.
In closing Cy, I want to ask just two question to you,
1, What is your defination of a Homebuilt / Experimantal plane and what
should the main purpose of the EAA be?????
2, If you were not receiveing compensation from the EAA would you still
support them so strongly ????
Ben Haas. Jackson Hole Wy. N801BH. ps, I am just finishing up my Zenith 801
with a high dollar all aluminum Ford V-8 and guess what???? I probably will
not be able purchase insurance from the EAA because I am considered a " high
risk". Go figure !!!!!!!!!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Hello Cy:
I am chairman of our local EAA chapter's "find a new project
committee". Our idea is to have a chapter aircraft like a old 172 that
could be a flying project that members could fly and retain currency (and
Safety) during the years our building their projects etc. Our chapter
President, contacted "National" last week to inquire how our Chapter might
organize such an ownership. He reported to me yesterday that local Chapters
could not own a airplane, and that "National" was forwarding him information
on how to organize a separate "flying club".
So how is it this "bedrock" AVIATION organization is afraid to allow
local Chapters to own an airplane?
I've heard the howls about liability, then the howlers go off and fly
Young Eagles 3 at a time, their logic is that basic insurance is fine for
flying kids, (any liability there?) but no amount of insurance is adequate
for a chapter airplane.
If we have to create a separate, new organization (flying club) to
provide our group with a means to fly, why should there be a EAA? Is the
EAA's watchword "we support everyone flying in every area, but we would
never, ever own a airplane ourselves".
The insurance aspects have been previously mentioned. Why doesn't the
EAA have a insurance program that supports and protects such flying
projects.
I myself am tired of attending Chapter meetings with a 10 minute agenda
with no content, the sole result being eating cookies and drinking coffee
with the 70 and 80 year olds. I turned 51 last week and believe I am our
Chapter's youngest member. It's easy to see why no younger people are
interested. I took on this committee assignment to create a reason for
active aviation people to join our Chapter, it remains to be seen if that
can happen.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing
Chairman "Find a new project committee" EAA Chapter 163, L:as Vegas, NV
Owner 1948 Model 35 Bonanza N4546V
1/3 Owner 1959 Cessna 150 N5744E
Stalled Builder Zenair 701 (plans)
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> I beg your pardon. What publication aren't you getting on time?
>
> What do you gain with your comments without any positive suggestions for
> improvement? There are many things that go on behind the scenes for your
> benefit.
>
> What would you change or add? Do you think EAA would have the same power
> with the FAA if it was several little fragmented groups instead of one
large
> cohesive group.
>
> Incidentally, If you think we are leaving something out, you are more than
> welcome to write on the topic.
>
> Cy Galley - life member, Chair; Emergency Aircraft Repair
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Interesting. Don't let the signature block mislead you. I do receive a
small honorarium for the writing my safety section in the Experimenter that
I do from my home in Rock Island Illinois. No paycheck, No Pension, No
Benefits other than the "That a boys" that I get from members that I have
helped. I am a retired school teacher and I receive about 100 times from
my school teacher's pension than the honorarium. This honorarium helps cover
the expenses such as film, photo development, phone calls, postage, computer
and printer expenses I incur as a writer for the EAA.
I have been a supporter of the EAA for over 30 years. I have been
Vice-President, President, plus Newsletter Editor for about 15 of those
years for Chapter 75. I am the webmaster for our website and computer
support for our Chapter's monthly Young Eagle program. Several of our
Chapter 75 pilots have broken the century mark with one pilot with over 300
Young Eagles We even got 3 Young Eagles from our B-17 tour stop this spring.
I am a Century Club Member, A Life member of EAA, A brick contributor to the
Eagle Hangar at Oshkosh, a 15 year member of the Vintage Aircraft Division,
in addition to being the unpaid (still no paycheck) editor of the
BC-Contact! which is the Newsletter for the Bellanca-Champion Type club.
I am the Chair of the Emergency Aircraft Repair which has been a service
project of Chapter 75 for over 40 years. I have about 45 members of Chapter
75 committed to getting convention attendees and their planes back home ---
safely. Chapter 75 built the buildings that we do our repair work. I am a
Technical Counselor.
I know that I would still support EAA without the honorarium as I believe in
the goals and programs of the EAA. Do I always agree with the EAA? Heavens
no! Do you know of another organization that has the skills and manpower
necessary to promote Sport Flying?
To the insurance problem. The relationship between Avemco and EAA was
brought to head by the events of 9-11. In addition, ALL insurance programs
are funded by the premiums paid. They do not and cannot operate at a loss.
If a segments of the insured shows excessive losses, then the policies just
will not be renewed. This is not an unusual situation. State Farm, for
example, pulled their homeowners policies out of the state of Florida as
hurricanes losses would have bankrupted them it they had continued. I feel
that the separation from Avemco would have occurred anyway. Avemco did NOT
consult EAA when they dropped the policies. Headquarters only knew about
the dropped policies when our members told them. The EAA has worked hard and
continues to provide new coverage for a very small segment of the
experimental aircraft field. Insurance only works if the uncertain losses
can be spread out over many policy holders. Too few polices or too large
losses will remove coverage for that segment.
I as Safety Programs Editor and EAA have worked hard in trying to reduce the
losses that occur in the homebuilt first flights with the Flight Advisor
program and the FREE Transition Training Waiver Program that the EAA set up
with the FAA. When the losses reduce, then the insurance policies will be
sold. So you and I have a large incentive to fly safely, to reduce
accidents, to reduce the payouts so the insurance companies will offer
coverage.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
Soon to be Sport Pilot
From: <Benford2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 5/18/2003 8:41:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> cgalley@qcbc.org writes:
>
>
> >
> > What do you gain with your comments without any positive suggestions for
> > improvement? There are many things that go on behind the scenes for your
> > benefit.
> >
> > What would you change or add? Do you think EAA would have the same power
> > with the FAA if it was several little fragmented groups instead of one
> > large
> > cohesive group.
> >
> > Incidentally, If you think we are leaving something out, you are more
than
> > welcome to write on the topic.
> >
> > Cy Galley - life member, Chair; Emergency Aircraft Repair
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
> >
> >
>
> Well, let me think....
>
> First off the insurance fiasco last year got me really thinking of the
> quality of the people in charge of the EAA. I was under the impression
that
> the EAA's primary purpose was to assist the Homebuilt / Experimental
movement
> in joining us all together so there is power in numbers. First, the
> underwriter the EAA was in bed with dropped auto engine / alternative
> powerplant builders, then the carrier started to NOT renew policies. Now
> would'n ya think people at the Eaa home office would have had a better
insite
> to the problem. It was only after a bunch of builders started to complain
> that they did something. The Eaa should be PRO active, NOT RE active.
>
> Now, I understand that the new carrier is balking at alternative
powerplants
> again. I am president of the EAA Chapter 1049 here in Jackson Hole Wy. I
put
> in countless hours working through all the details to keep the chapter
> thriving and without a dime in compensation. You, on the other hand, are
> drawing a paycheck, benefit package and a pension from the EAA so I would
> expect you paint a real rosy picture of the organization. We have flown
256
> young eagles two years ago, last year it rained 4 out of 6 hours and we
still
> flew 219 kids. I do want to mention that Tom P attended our Young Eagles
day
> last year and he commented multiple times what a well run, safe, efficient
> and enthusiastic event we put on. Funny though, when I read Sport Aviation
> each month all I see is Pictures and articles on the Poberancy family
> receiving awards and attending Banquets. He never did mention anything
about
> our chapter busting its ass to pass on the fever of flight in Sport
Avaition.
> I am working hard to organize this years Young Eagles event with a goal of
> flying 300 kids on Sat July 12, 2003. Of course it helps to draw in kids
> when we have some high profile members in our chapter like Dr Rich Sugden,
> Harrison Ford, Jack Hagle and a host of other talented flyers. I will see
> this event through and make it the best Young Eagles fly-in that EAA has
ever
> seen. After that I will resign and not renew my Eaa membership. I will be
> damned if I will send in any more of my HARD earned money to the Eaa so
the
> the Poberancy family can keep their Fleet of toys flying and hog the
> spotlight, all the while forgetting to give credit to the grass roots
effort
> that keep the EAA alive.
>
> In closing Cy, I want to ask just two question to you,
>
> 1, What is your defination of a Homebuilt / Experimantal plane and what
> should the main purpose of the EAA be?????
>
> 2, If you were not receiveing compensation from the EAA would you still
> support them so strongly ????
>
> Ben Haas. Jackson Hole Wy. N801BH. ps, I am just finishing up my Zenith
801
> with a high dollar all aluminum Ford V-8 and guess what???? I probably
will
> not be able purchase insurance from the EAA because I am considered a "
high
> risk". Go figure !!!!!!!!!
>
>
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
An acquaintance, a long-time EAA member, remarked some months ago that he was
also a member of the ARRL (Amateur Radio Relay League). Direct quotes would
not be acceptable in this forum, but he was able to identify areas in which
both organizations might be out of touch with reality. His solution was that
only ONE person in any locality should actually remain a member, while the
rest quietly drop out and just let the beast die of hunger. The one local
member could be the "whipping boy" for all, and then blamed for the demise of
the beast.
Somebody send the EAA a message in Morse Code.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, our friendly masked homebuilder was busy
inserting Clecos in his latest Mach 3 stealth STOL 12-seater, powered by a
fuel-injected Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine.
New Jersey will sweep the Ducks for the Cup. (THAT should start some really
important tirades).
Zed Smith
701/R912/90 percent
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
Hey Cy,
I appreciate your contributions, both to this group and to EAA in general.
Would you possibly know the "appropriate" person within EAA to send comments
to in support of Jeff Small's observations? I too feel that the aircraft
chosen for the centenial of flight should be at least for the most part be..
"Experimental". Perhaps if the right person within EAA were to read his
observations, a change might be considered.
Thanks
Fred Hulen
do not archive
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net
*-- **** -*-- **--**
*-- **** --- ** *** *-** ** *** - * -* ** -* --* **--**
--
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
================================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Construction
================================================================================
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
O.K. Since I have placed myself in the barrel. I ran a flying club for
about 10 years. The more members, the tougher it is to get insurance
coverage. It might be impossible to get coverage for a chapter but very easy
for a separately formed corporation. This Corporation can be restricted so
only chapter members can join but it separates the liability from the
chapter and the EAA supplied liability insurance. Airplanes are expensive
to insure. Chapter non-flying activities are not.
As for chapter meetings, they are what the leadership and membership set up.
One trick that my chapter uses is a program provider raffle. Everyone's
name in a hat and we draw for a 2 year period. If you name is drawn, you
are responsible for providing a program. You don't have to present the
program just round it up.
The program can be almost anything flying related. The best programs are
people from within the chapter talking about things they have done. Last
month we had a Quickie builder and flyer get out his construction photos
starting almost 15 years ago. The pictures were scanned, made into a
PowerPoint presentation and he walked us thru the various stages with
pictures of him and fellow chapter members building his plane. Since there
are still some foam and glass builders it was a great learning experience.
The one picture he left out was the picture of him receiving Reserve Grand
Champion at Oshkosh as he was too modest. But the audience knew and told
the newcomers.
We have had building programs, Building with metal, Building with tube and
fabric Several were presented by Oshkosh or other major flyin Champions.
Running an FBO in Alaska. Weight and Balance using the Chapter's scales. A
hands on rib stitching. Gas welding. Making a Piper type metal rib using a
stretcher/Shrinker. Wearing Night Vision Goggles while helicopter flying.
Boy that is weird. Time to Climb to 10,000 international record. Weather
bureau people, Tower operators. Correcting oiling problems on a Lycoming.
History of our local airplane factory, the Monocoupe. The local ultra-light
companies, Challenger and Genisus. The list goes on and on as the members
really work at making a good presentation.
Plus we also have 3 fly-in pot lucks during the summer and a Christmas
potluck with Mr and Mrs Claus to pass out the gifts to the young and not-so
young.
One key is to have a newsletter or website to tell the membership what will
happen and how it happened.
I like your Chapter Airplane idea. Remember, it takes a take-charge person
to keep it running... and lots of money.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing"
<n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
> Hello Cy:
> I am chairman of our local EAA chapter's "find a new project
> committee". Our idea is to have a chapter aircraft like a old 172 that
> could be a flying project that members could fly and retain currency (and
> Safety) during the years our building their projects etc. Our chapter
> President, contacted "National" last week to inquire how our Chapter might
> organize such an ownership. He reported to me yesterday that local
Chapters
> could not own a airplane, and that "National" was forwarding him
information
> on how to organize a separate "flying club".
>
> So how is it this "bedrock" AVIATION organization is afraid to allow
> local Chapters to own an airplane?
>
> I've heard the howls about liability, then the howlers go off and fly
> Young Eagles 3 at a time, their logic is that basic insurance is fine for
> flying kids, (any liability there?) but no amount of insurance is adequate
> for a chapter airplane.
>
> If we have to create a separate, new organization (flying club) to
> provide our group with a means to fly, why should there be a EAA? Is the
> EAA's watchword "we support everyone flying in every area, but we would
> never, ever own a airplane ourselves".
>
> The insurance aspects have been previously mentioned. Why doesn't the
> EAA have a insurance program that supports and protects such flying
> projects.
>
> I myself am tired of attending Chapter meetings with a 10 minute
agenda
> with no content, the sole result being eating cookies and drinking coffee
> with the 70 and 80 year olds. I turned 51 last week and believe I am our
> Chapter's youngest member. It's easy to see why no younger people are
> interested. I took on this committee assignment to create a reason for
> active aviation people to join our Chapter, it remains to be seen if that
> can happen.
>
> Regards,
>
> Randy L. Thwing
>
> Chairman "Find a new project committee" EAA Chapter 163, L:as Vegas, NV
> Owner 1948 Model 35 Bonanza N4546V
> 1/3 Owner 1959 Cessna 150 N5744E
> Stalled Builder Zenair 701 (plans)
>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > I beg your pardon. What publication aren't you getting on time?
> >
> > What do you gain with your comments without any positive suggestions for
> > improvement? There are many things that go on behind the scenes for your
> > benefit.
> >
> > What would you change or add? Do you think EAA would have the same power
> > with the FAA if it was several little fragmented groups instead of one
> large
> > cohesive group.
> >
> > Incidentally, If you think we are leaving something out, you are more
than
> > welcome to write on the topic.
> >
> > Cy Galley - life member, Chair; Emergency Aircraft Repair
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Beat you to it! Glad I'm not the only person that thought the EAA should do
what they can to have experimentals represented.
I regularly forward messages to my contacts at EAA for them to respond,
handle, or inform. Even though my signature says I am the Safety Programs
Editor for the Experimenter, I actually live in Rock Island, IL and do all
submissions by the internet.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen"
<hulens61@birch.net>
>
> Hey Cy,
>
> I appreciate your contributions, both to this group and to EAA in general.
> Would you possibly know the "appropriate" person within EAA to send
comments
> to in support of Jeff Small's observations? I too feel that the aircraft
> chosen for the centenial of flight should be at least for the most part
be..
> "Experimental". Perhaps if the right person within EAA were to read his
> observations, a change might be considered.
> Thanks
>
> Fred Hulen
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Sorry, I don't read Morse code. Amateur Radio is about the only group I've
not joined.
Cy Galley - MVR-AACA www.aaca.org/mvr
----- Original Message -----
From: <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More EAA ?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net
>
> *-- **** -*-- **--**
>
> *-- **** --- ** *** *-** ** *** - * -* ** -* --* **--**
> --
>
> Best Regards, Ray Montagne
> Cupertino, CA
>
>
============================================================================
====
>
> Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939
> Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
> Build Status: Rudder completed
> Elevator Completed
> Stabilizer Completed
> Flaps Completed
> Ailerons Completed
> Right Wing Under Construction
>
>
============================================================================
====
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net
What would make me happy with the EAA:
1. My local chapter did not loose membership applications / dues payments
and cancel memberships after two months.
2. Local technical advisors were interested in scheduling inspections.
4. Local technical advisors responded to communication. Even a negative
response is better than silence!
5. Technical advisors were interested in providing constructive criticism
rather than trying to boost their own ego by expounding on knowledge
that is not relevant to an aircraft inspection, construction, engineering
flight testing or handling.
6. The local chapter was interested if anyone was building.
7. The local chapter showed any interest in what anyone is building.
8. The local chapter showed any interest in the status of anyone's project.
9. The local chapter responded to requests for help with the technical advisor
program.
I could go into great detail on these issues. Suffice to say that I joined EAA
specifically to participate in the technical advisor and flight
advisor programs
and have yet to have any positive or in the least way, a cooperative exchange
that would allow me to participate in these programs. I'm now nearing 50%
completion of my XL without any positive response resulting in requests to
participate in the TA program.
I only consider myself somewhat fortunate in having helped build three other
airplanes and having a brother who has designed and built several aircraft
as a resource.
I'd love to be able to say something positive but despite my best efforts, I
have not been able to attain any positive experience with EAA to date. I've
all but given up at this point...
--
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
================================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Construction
================================================================================
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> I beg your pardon. What publication aren't you getting on time?
Any magazine. Their fulfilment service sucks and needs replacing.
> What do you gain with your comments without any positive suggestions for
> improvement? There are many things that go on behind the scenes for your
> benefit.
>
> What would you change or add? Do you think EAA would have the same power
> with the FAA if it was several little fragmented groups instead of one
large
> cohesive group.
Install a new leader into each position the requires a hat. IE Homebuilt,
Ultralight, Warbird, Restoration, General Aviation. Each division becoming
an independant organization to promote it's own special interest. Form an
executive comittee to administer and function much like the legislative and
executive branches of the US. The president could have a controlled amount
of power but would not have unlimited priveledges. Each division would grow
and instead of being fragmented groups would be composed of strong groups.
Yet each belongs to a central comitiee (of all groups) This would cordinate
and keep each from duplicating efforts and stepping on each others toes. On
issues of common interest they could present a stronger united front.
You might brouse the usenet and there you will find many who have gotten
disgusted with the EAA. I am not talking about a few odd ducks, I refer to
many, many responsible talented people.
Some just cannot take critism, but if you don't think there is room for
improvement... you just have not looked at the orginazation as many others
see it.
> Incidentally, If you think we are leaving something out, you are more than
> welcome to write on the topic.
>
> Cy Galley - life member, Chair; Emergency Aircraft Repair
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
> >
> > I joined the EAA in the '60's and it was a bunch of guys that loved
> > homebuilt planes. Now the EAA is a money driven PAC (Political Action
> > Committie) that tries to be all things to all airmen (which it cannot
do).
> >
> > There needs to be seperate Associations for the many hats that EAA is
> trying
> > to wear. But, with Sport Pilot coming up the EAA will don yet another
hat.
> > They look sort of ridiculous with some many differnts hats,caps, fedoras
> on
> > their head all at once. Tom should have stayed with aerobatics. He does
> not
> > have the leadership ability of his father.
> >
> > Internally the place is a featherbed. They can not even get their
> > publications out and delivered on time.
> >
> > GW
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Benford2@aol.com>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> > >
> > > In a message dated 5/17/2003 9:34:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> > > zodiacjeff@msn.com writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> > > >
> > > > Opened today's issue of EAA e-HOT LINE and read that eight more
pilots
> > have
> > > > been selected to fly their states' flag to FFA as part of the "50
> Flags
> > to
> > > > Kitty Hawk" program.
> > > >
> > > > None of the eight are flying homebuilt a/c as part of this
centennial
> > > > celebration of the world's first homebuilt. Instead we have a
Cessna
> > 172,
> > > > a Mooney, and a Skylane as part of the parade of a/c participating.
> > > >
> > > > Would seem to me that the organization that began its existence with
> > > > interest in homebuilts and whose first name is "Experimental" might
> want
> > to
> > > > pick some pilots and aircraft that reflect that interest.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I applied to the program, and no, I wasn't selected to be the
> > > > Pennsylvania pilot; maybe that explains my dissatisfaction. The
> > "roots"
> > > > of EAA (the Chapters) may still grow in the garages and workshops of
> its
> > > > members, but the national organization seems to be lured by the big
> > money
> > > > of interests like Ford and Eclipse.
> > > >
> > > > My grumpy two-cents worth.jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > AMEN to all that. It has turned into the Poberancy's private assoc.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: More EAA ? (Morse code) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
According to http://www.soton.ac.uk/~scp93ch/morse/
this means:
WHY?
WHO IS LISTENING?
M
> Sorry, I don't read Morse code. Amateur Radio is about the only group I've
> not joined.
>
> Cy Galley - MVR-AACA www.aaca.org/mvr
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More EAA ?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net
> >
> > *-- **** -*-- **--**
> >
> > *-- **** --- ** *** *-** ** *** - * -* ** -* --* **--**
> > --
Message 25
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| Subject: | To whom do we comment? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Cy,
>Beat you to it! Glad I'm not the only person that thought the EAA should do
>what they can to have experimentals represented.
Could you tell US where to sent comments? Name and their position in the
EAA. E-mailaddress? As far as this homebuilder is concerned, ONLY
experimentals and restorations should be chosen.
Regards Jeff do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>There were somewhere around 200 homebuilts and restorations to see, but not
a
>single Zenith. The most popular kits were RV's.
Joe,
This is not a rational answer but the fact that you don't see many is one of
the reasons I chose the 601. If you show up in an RV you're one of many.
Show up in a 601 and then go stand along the sidelines. People will begin
to gravitate toward it and when you go over you'll hear comments of "cute"
and "something I could build." Happens all the time.
Wayne Beattie told me this and his words ring true every time it's parked
somewhere.
Tailwinds jeff
do not archive
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601HD real world cruise speed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Caithcart" <bcaithcart@hotmail.com>
Kelly
Thanks for the heads up about the two blade warp drive. Many of the faster
corvair powered planes are using the 3 blade warp. My application will be
turning the prop at 2700 RPM at cruise in a direct drive configuration.
Quite a bit faster than the stratus. William Wynne (The Corvair Authority)
also happens to be a warp drive dealer. I will get his advice before I buy a
prop. The warp drive is the prop of choice for the corvair.
Brian Caithcart
Saskatoon Sask.
CH601HD/corvair
>>FWIW Warp won't even sell me a two blade prop for my 601. The Darrel said
>>I
>must use the three blade prop for my engine & plane combo because the two
>blades wouldn't have enough surface area to do the job.
>
>Kelly
>601 Stratus HD
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
There are about 5 divisions at the present time doing essentially what you
suggest. HG is responsible for the Vintage (restoration) with their own
directors. There is a WarBird division with their own set of directors.
Homebuilders are going to be split in two when the Sport Pilot comes on
board which will replace the Experimenter. Presently there are two council's
there. They are the home builder's council and the ultralight council. There
is the IAC with their division.
In addition there is a government relations programs which deals with the
FAA and the problems they create. Earl Lawrence is slowly getting the FAA to
be helpful instead of a hindrance. How? By teaching courses to the FAA
personnel on the homebuilding and aging aircraft. For example when I need
information or help with Transitional Training Waivers, I call Jan Streblow.
Bob Mackey is responsible for the Chapter programs.
Now which magazine are you having troubles? With most problems you need to
talk to the person in charge. This I can do. But I'll need a name to go
with GW.
I agree with you that there is always room for improvement even with a
quality organization such as the EAA. Knowing some of the inside workings of
the EAA, they will try their very best to rectify any problem. First,
generalities don't work. You have to tell them the details.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
EAA Chapter 75 Rock Island, Illinois
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > I beg your pardon. What publication aren't you getting on time?
>
> Any magazine. Their fulfilment service sucks and needs replacing.
>
> > What do you gain with your comments without any positive suggestions for
> > improvement? There are many things that go on behind the scenes for your
> > benefit.
> >
> > What would you change or add? Do you think EAA would have the same power
> > with the FAA if it was several little fragmented groups instead of one
> large
> > cohesive group.
>
> Install a new leader into each position the requires a hat. IE Homebuilt,
> Ultralight, Warbird, Restoration, General Aviation. Each division becoming
> an independant organization to promote it's own special interest. Form an
> executive comittee to administer and function much like the legislative
and
> executive branches of the US. The president could have a controlled amount
> of power but would not have unlimited priveledges. Each division would
grow
> and instead of being fragmented groups would be composed of strong groups.
> Yet each belongs to a central comitiee (of all groups) This would
cordinate
> and keep each from duplicating efforts and stepping on each others toes.
On
> issues of common interest they could present a stronger united front.
>
> You might brouse the usenet and there you will find many who have gotten
> disgusted with the EAA. I am not talking about a few odd ducks, I refer to
> many, many responsible talented people.
>
> Some just cannot take critism, but if you don't think there is room for
> improvement... you just have not looked at the orginazation as many others
> see it.
>
> > Incidentally, If you think we are leaving something out, you are more
than
> > welcome to write on the topic.
> >
> > Cy Galley - life member, Chair; Emergency Aircraft Repair
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
> > >
> > > I joined the EAA in the '60's and it was a bunch of guys that loved
> > > homebuilt planes. Now the EAA is a money driven PAC (Political Action
> > > Committie) that tries to be all things to all airmen (which it cannot
> do).
> > >
> > > There needs to be seperate Associations for the many hats that EAA is
> > trying
> > > to wear. But, with Sport Pilot coming up the EAA will don yet another
> hat.
> > > They look sort of ridiculous with some many differnts hats,caps,
fedoras
> > on
> > > their head all at once. Tom should have stayed with aerobatics. He
does
> > not
> > > have the leadership ability of his father.
> > >
> > > Internally the place is a featherbed. They can not even get their
> > > publications out and delivered on time.
> > >
> > > GW
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <Benford2@aol.com>
> > > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 5/17/2003 9:34:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> > > > zodiacjeff@msn.com writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small"
<zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Opened today's issue of EAA e-HOT LINE and read that eight more
> pilots
> > > have
> > > > > been selected to fly their states' flag to FFA as part of the "50
> > Flags
> > > to
> > > > > Kitty Hawk" program.
> > > > >
> > > > > None of the eight are flying homebuilt a/c as part of this
> centennial
> > > > > celebration of the world's first homebuilt. Instead we have a
> Cessna
> > > 172,
> > > > > a Mooney, and a Skylane as part of the parade of a/c
participating.
> > > > >
> > > > > Would seem to me that the organization that began its existence
with
> > > > > interest in homebuilts and whose first name is "Experimental"
might
> > want
> > > to
> > > > > pick some pilots and aircraft that reflect that interest.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I applied to the program, and no, I wasn't selected to be the
> > > > > Pennsylvania pilot; maybe that explains my dissatisfaction. The
> > > "roots"
> > > > > of EAA (the Chapters) may still grow in the garages and workshops
of
> > its
> > > > > members, but the national organization seems to be lured by the
big
> > > money
> > > > > of interests like Ford and Eclipse.
> > > > >
> > > > > My grumpy two-cents worth.jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > AMEN to all that. It has turned into the Poberancy's private assoc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: To whom do we comment? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Might try bwarner@eaa.org I generally send my comments and questions to
another personal friend at govt@eaa.org as a work closely with government
programs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: To whom do we comment?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
> Cy,
>
> >Beat you to it! Glad I'm not the only person that thought the EAA should
do
> >what they can to have experimentals represented.
>
> Could you tell US where to sent comments? Name and their position in the
> EAA. E-mailaddress? As far as this homebuilder is concerned, ONLY
> experimentals and restorations should be chosen.
>
> Regards Jeff do not archive
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I also work as unpaid editor for the Bellanca-Champion Type Club. If you
think that EAA's fulfillment service sucks and needs replacing, You are
talking about the United States Postal Service.
The USPS LOST the Bellanca-Champion newsletters. ALL of them. We had to
re-print, and re-mail one entire issue... AT OUR EXPENSE. That's right, at
our expense, even though the postal service signed our newsletter as
received. So then our members got 2 copies a week apart and over 10 weeks
late. You are right, their service sucks.
That is your United States Monopoly Postal Service. Neither the
Bellanca-Champion Club nor the EAA has much control over that organization.
We all suffer by their hand.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > I beg your pardon. What publication aren't you getting on time?
>
> Any magazine. Their fulfilment service sucks and needs replacing.
>
> > What do you gain with your comments without any positive suggestions for
> > improvement? There are many things that go on behind the scenes for your
> > benefit.
> >
> > What would you change or add? Do you think EAA would have the same power
> > with the FAA if it was several little fragmented groups instead of one
> large
> > cohesive group.
>
> Install a new leader into each position the requires a hat. IE Homebuilt,
> Ultralight, Warbird, Restoration, General Aviation. Each division becoming
> an independant organization to promote it's own special interest. Form an
> executive comittee to administer and function much like the legislative
and
> executive branches of the US. The president could have a controlled amount
> of power but would not have unlimited priveledges. Each division would
grow
> and instead of being fragmented groups would be composed of strong groups.
> Yet each belongs to a central comitiee (of all groups) This would
cordinate
> and keep each from duplicating efforts and stepping on each others toes.
On
> issues of common interest they could present a stronger united front.
>
> You might brouse the usenet and there you will find many who have gotten
> disgusted with the EAA. I am not talking about a few odd ducks, I refer to
> many, many responsible talented people.
>
> Some just cannot take critism, but if you don't think there is room for
> improvement... you just have not looked at the orginazation as many others
> see it.
>
> > Incidentally, If you think we are leaving something out, you are more
than
> > welcome to write on the topic.
> >
> > Cy Galley - life member, Chair; Emergency Aircraft Repair
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "GW" <bossone@cox-internet.com>
> > >
> > > I joined the EAA in the '60's and it was a bunch of guys that loved
> > > homebuilt planes. Now the EAA is a money driven PAC (Political Action
> > > Committie) that tries to be all things to all airmen (which it cannot
> do).
> > >
> > > There needs to be seperate Associations for the many hats that EAA is
> > trying
> > > to wear. But, with Sport Pilot coming up the EAA will don yet another
> hat.
> > > They look sort of ridiculous with some many differnts hats,caps,
fedoras
> > on
> > > their head all at once. Tom should have stayed with aerobatics. He
does
> > not
> > > have the leadership ability of his father.
> > >
> > > Internally the place is a featherbed. They can not even get their
> > > publications out and delivered on time.
> > >
> > > GW
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <Benford2@aol.com>
> > > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 5/17/2003 9:34:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> > > > zodiacjeff@msn.com writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small"
<zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Opened today's issue of EAA e-HOT LINE and read that eight more
> pilots
> > > have
> > > > > been selected to fly their states' flag to FFA as part of the "50
> > Flags
> > > to
> > > > > Kitty Hawk" program.
> > > > >
> > > > > None of the eight are flying homebuilt a/c as part of this
> centennial
> > > > > celebration of the world's first homebuilt. Instead we have a
> Cessna
> > > 172,
> > > > > a Mooney, and a Skylane as part of the parade of a/c
participating.
> > > > >
> > > > > Would seem to me that the organization that began its existence
with
> > > > > interest in homebuilts and whose first name is "Experimental"
might
> > want
> > > to
> > > > > pick some pilots and aircraft that reflect that interest.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I applied to the program, and no, I wasn't selected to be the
> > > > > Pennsylvania pilot; maybe that explains my dissatisfaction. The
> > > "roots"
> > > > > of EAA (the Chapters) may still grow in the garages and workshops
of
> > its
> > > > > members, but the national organization seems to be lured by the
big
> > > money
> > > > > of interests like Ford and Eclipse.
> > > > >
> > > > > My grumpy two-cents worth.jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > AMEN to all that. It has turned into the Poberancy's private assoc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew P. Cummings" <cummings@stingray.net>
On Sun, 18 May 2003, Cy Galley wrote:
> Sorry, I don't read Morse code. Amateur Radio is about the only group I've
> not joined.
He said, I don't read it as well as I listen to it, but it should be;
Why?
Who is listening?
--
Matthew P. Cummings
1974 Cessna 150L N10667
Moberly, MO (MBY)
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
List: Isn't it about time to return the soap box to those who would enjoy
hearing about building Zenith airplanes? Enough! Save your rhetoric for
someplace else.
Regards,
Larry Wood
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
I too have been disappointed with the local chapters of EAA that I've
visited. The vast majority of the members are flying certified aircraft,
and there is hardly ever any discussion about building. That's why I have
pretty much stopped going to meetings.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
>
> Interestingly enough our local chapter has 15 or 20 members and no home
> builders. I gave them a program a few years ago and was to find little
> interest in homebuilt aircraft. None of the homebuilders around here are
> members. hmmmm Don Walker HDS do not archive.
>
>
> >From: Benford2@aol.com
> >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> >Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 23:53:05 EDT
> >
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 5/17/2003 9:34:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> >zodiacjeff@msn.com writes:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> > >
> > > Opened today's issue of EAA e-HOT LINE and read that eight more pilots
> >have
> > > been selected to fly their states' flag to FFA as part of the "50
Flags
> >to
> > > Kitty Hawk" program.
> > >
> > > None of the eight are flying homebuilt a/c as part of this centennial
> > > celebration of the world's first homebuilt. Instead we have a Cessna
> >172,
> > > a Mooney, and a Skylane as part of the parade of a/c participating.
> > >
> > > Would seem to me that the organization that began its existence with
> > > interest in homebuilts and whose first name is "Experimental" might
want
> >to
> > > pick some pilots and aircraft that reflect that interest.
> > >
> > > Yes, I applied to the program, and no, I wasn't selected to be the
> > > Pennsylvania pilot; maybe that explains my dissatisfaction. The
> >"roots"
> > > of EAA (the Chapters) may still grow in the garages and workshops of
its
> > > members, but the national organization seems to be lured by the big
> >money
> > > of interests like Ford and Eclipse.
> > >
> > > My grumpy two-cents worth.jeff
> > >
> > >
> >
> >AMEN to all that. It has turned into the Poberancy's private assoc.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 34
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
Brian,
I rate Warp Drive right up there with ZAC, both very good companies to deal
with.
Best of luck with your project, & keep us posted how things turn out for
you.
Kelly
The warp drive is the prop of choice for the corvair.
>
> Brian Caithcart
> Saskatoon Sask.
> CH601HD/corvair
Message 35
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
I belong to the EAA but agree with all the negative
stuff on this site, it is true--- The EAA doesn't
give a damn about the person scratch building ( or
otherwise) a homebuild airplane. All they give a
shit about is MONEY and airplanes that cost
megabucks--- I told Paul this also-- doesn't amount to
shit. I will not be re-newing my membership this time
around, and will still belong to the AOPA---- "fred"
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
An EAA chapter only does want the members want to do. Chapter 75 has about
10 RVs, some flying, some in progress, most championship caliber. We've
built several Long Ezes and Vari Eze. In fact, the last Long Ez just won
Reserve Grand Champion at Sun 'n Fun this Spring. Several StarDusters,
about 10 AirBikes with 3 finished and flown. We have a couple of Zenith
601s as another builder just signed in tonight. A Lancair 320 and two Hatz
biplanes and a Murphy Rebel. We have several people restoring and flying
Navions.
We just did a B17 tour stop and we could not have done it without our
members that always step up to the plate when needed.
One thing that makes building easy in our chapter is the extensive tool
library we have built up over the years. We have about 5 tech counselors. A
qualified flight advisor that we sent to school at our expense.
I don't believe our chapter is any different than many other chapters that
are active and provide activities like project reviews where we go out an
look over a project when it is too cold to fly. Involve the families and
wives. Invite the CAP. Go on tours of the Control Towers or ultra-light
factories. Have fly-outs. Have fly-in potlucks. Have activities that
involves the members.
It may not work, so try it a again.
Have a young Eagle Rally. Our Young Eagle coordinator has posters, pins,
balsa guiders that he gives out to the kids. You only get out of anything
what you put into it.
If you sit back and want entertainment, stay by your TV. But you will miss
the fun of being involved with other's projects. The fun of showing another
member one of you hard earned skills. The fun of giving a kid his first
plane ride. The fun of helping veterans remember the B-17. The fun of
sending a kid to the EAA Air Academy. The great joy of seeing your Daughter
graduate from the Air Force Academy with honors.
These are the things that makes EAA work for me and for my fellow members of
Chapter 75.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
>
> I too have been disappointed with the local chapters of EAA that I've
> visited. The vast majority of the members are flying certified aircraft,
> and there is hardly ever any discussion about building. That's why I have
> pretty much stopped going to meetings.
>
> Greg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
> >
> > Interestingly enough our local chapter has 15 or 20 members and no home
> > builders. I gave them a program a few years ago and was to find little
> > interest in homebuilt aircraft. None of the homebuilders around here are
> > members. hmmmm Don Walker HDS do not archive.
> >
> >
> > >From: Benford2@aol.com
> > >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA?
> > >Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 23:53:05 EDT
> > >
> > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> > >
> > >In a message dated 5/17/2003 9:34:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> > >zodiacjeff@msn.com writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> > > >
> > > > Opened today's issue of EAA e-HOT LINE and read that eight more
pilots
> > >have
> > > > been selected to fly their states' flag to FFA as part of the "50
> Flags
> > >to
> > > > Kitty Hawk" program.
> > > >
> > > > None of the eight are flying homebuilt a/c as part of this
centennial
> > > > celebration of the world's first homebuilt. Instead we have a
Cessna
> > >172,
> > > > a Mooney, and a Skylane as part of the parade of a/c participating.
> > > >
> > > > Would seem to me that the organization that began its existence with
> > > > interest in homebuilts and whose first name is "Experimental" might
> want
> > >to
> > > > pick some pilots and aircraft that reflect that interest.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I applied to the program, and no, I wasn't selected to be the
> > > > Pennsylvania pilot; maybe that explains my dissatisfaction. The
> > >"roots"
> > > > of EAA (the Chapters) may still grow in the garages and workshops of
> its
> > > > members, but the national organization seems to be lured by the big
> > >money
> > > > of interests like Ford and Eclipse.
> > > >
> > > > My grumpy two-cents worth.jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >AMEN to all that. It has turned into the Poberancy's private assoc.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 37
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand <masterbogun@yahoo.com>
give that man a big cigar. I totaly agree with you. I have been building from
plans a 701 since 1993. I used to belong to EAA back then and for a total of 5
years I could never get anyone from any chapter to come by and see my 701. They
always had some sort of excuse. I don't belong to Eaa now and I am not to
far from finishing my project. Hope they don't have anything to say about the
end result......Bo
Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred
Poor
I belong to the EAA but agree with all the negative
stuff on this site, it is true--- The EAA doesn't
give a damn about the person scratch building ( or
otherwise) a homebuild airplane. All they give a
shit about is MONEY and airplanes that cost
megabucks--- I told Paul this also-- doesn't amount to
shit. I will not be re-newing my membership this time
around, and will still belong to the AOPA---- "fred"
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Where's the "Experimental" in EAA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> I myself am tired of attending Chapter meetings with a 10 minute
> agenda with no content, the sole result being eating cookies and
drinking
> coffee
I can't resist throwing im a quick comment on this myself (I promise not
to mention anything about pigs with or without lipstick). This is the
very reason why I elected NOT to join the local EAA Chapter (I am a
National member however, mostly to gain access to the good information on
their web site). I visited a couple of times at the local meetings, and
found that the whole thing was more about anything else BUT building
airplanes. I agree that the EAA may be losing touch with its
roots....even though they still do provide a lobbying voice for important
matters relating to aviation. Perhaps local chapters need to step back
and look at their respective organizations from a distance and realize
why they exist in the first place?
By the way, I admit this may not be the case with some chapters...just my
impression of the only one I've been subjected to.
Mike Fortunato
do not archive
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 39
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 5/18/2003 7:10:38 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
Elwood140@aol.com writes:
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
>
> List: Isn't it about time to return the soap box to those who would enjoy
> hearing about building Zenith airplanes? Enough! Save your rhetoric for
> someplace else.
>
> Regards,
>
> Larry Wood
>
That will work for me.
Ben Haas N801BH. DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Southwest Regional Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Why we chossed Zenith? ...in fact we are finishing our 701 and we will
be reciving our 601 XL kit by June...
Another good thing about the Zenith aircrafts is the possibility to
land in shorter grass strips than the RV's (or any similar airplane).
Remember higher cruise speed goes by the hand with higher landing speed
and higher mantainance bills...
I havent got a ride in a RV (ther are only 2 of them flying, I am aware
here in Mexico) but a friend has a Mooney (sp?) and he only visits our
2,100 ft long (4,995 ft ASL) grass strip by car, localy there are only
two airports: the international airport and our grass strip, and we are
6 million people in the City.
With a 601 XL you have more chances to visit little airports, but also
have enough cruise speed to get there without getting to tired.
A good reading (not Zenith related) will be the article in Sport
Aviation (April 2003) about Earl Luce, he built the replica of Steve
Wittman's "Buttercup", and he also owns the faster Tailwind... His wife
prefers the slower (145 mph) Buttercup that can land where they used to
fly in their Cub and Taylorcraft...
Incidently, read the next article, is about a couple that built, own
and really fly a RV-6A... They have logged 1,000 hrs in 23 months!
They fly every week end, a wife we all dreamed, if you ask me.
Our 701 is supposed to land everywhere, you read above here airports
and surviving airstrips are scarse, we need "ultralight landing and
take off performance" to enjoy flying around here, maybe a diferent
scenario in you case, but having more options to visit and extra money
for gas (saved from a faster plane) could make a diference...
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
--- Pwalsh4539@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com
>
> Build time and cost. Comparing a Zenith to an RV is comparing apples
> to
> oranges. Personally, as a first timer, I just thought (correctly, I
> think)
> that the 601 or 701 was a more realistic goal. It surely flies great
> although
> not fast, it is still on par speedwise with the 152s and 172s I was
> used to
> flying and is better in all other ways.
> If you want a faster, more expensive plane with a much longer build
> time,
> opt for the RV. If you want a slower, less expensive, equally safe
> plane with
> a short build time, opt for the Zenith designs.
> Of course, I have never built an RV so my opinion is somewhat
> biased.
> Patrick Walsh
> 601 HD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: What Walmart tires? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Cy,
Thank you for your expert opinion, I was thinking the same, but hold my
opinion, as I had always flew ultralights (the 701 will be my first
"real" airplane) and only had one "inconvenient" flat tire when
landing, was not sure in the Zenith's range of landing speeds.
Thanks one more time.
Saludos
Gary Gower
do not archive
--- Cy Galley <cgalley@qcbc.org> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Ken Brock was not killed due to the failure of the tailwheel. His
> T-18 hit
> a cement post but what killed him was the unsecured tool box that hit
> him in
> the head, not the loss of control, not the hitting of the cement
> post.
> Marie had little but a few bruises from the accident and is still
> alive.
> Point is that most tire blow outs are not as fatal. At the landing
> speed of
> a Zenith a blowout should be little more than an inconvenience.
>
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What Walmart tires?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller"
> <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
> >
> > Hi, Guys,
> >
> > Several years ago I worked as a tire salesman so have a little
> working
> > knowledge of tires although not of the aircraft variety.
> >
> > The "Not for Highway Use" designation relates mainly to the speed
> that a
> > wheelbarrow tire is designed to operate at. At highway speeds,
> cornering
> > (side) loads are much higher than the tire is designed for. There
> are
> > other considerations also such as rubber compound suitability the
> > possibility of heat buildup. The risk of a blowout is real. Side
> loads
> > are certainly a significant factor to be considered for aircraft
> tires.
> >
> > A blowout when tracking straight down the runway will cause a
> sudden,
> > large increase in rolling resistance on that side resulting in a
> severe
> > pull to that side which you may or mat not be able to counter with
> > rudder/steering/differential braking. If it occurs during a muffed
> > crosswind landing when tracking sideways, the wheel may dig in and
> put
> > enormous side load on the landing gear. The scenarios are easy to
> > imagine - collapsed gear/prop strike/wing damage.
> >
> > I guess it's up to each aircraft owner to make the call as they see
> fit
> > but make sure you have all the information on which to make an
> INFORMED
> > decision.
> >
> > Here's a thought to end with: I understand that Ken Brock (of
> gyroplane
> > fame) died when landing a taildragger that swerved off the runway
> into a
> > tree when the tailwheel failed. As noted above, a blowout could
> cause a
> > similar accident. The right tires for the job are good insurance.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Phil Miller
> > New Zealand
> > (701 912S)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of g t
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What Walmart tires?
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
> >
> > At least at one time, trailer tires had a stronger side wall
> > construction due to the load and the bouncing of the load one can
> get on
> > highways. I do not know if this is true today anymore, but it
> would be
> > worth the research before one tries a trailer tire or a wheelbarrow
> > tire. Others please post as I will if I find additonal
> information.
> >
> > DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR AIRPLANE IF YOU BLOW A TIRE
> ON
> > LANDING?????
> >
> >
> > Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> >
> > > From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> >
> > > There is logic here that says as the wheelbarrow tires are so
> light
> > > one could carry a spare in the tail behind the seats when heading
> to
> > > one of these places...Assuming you don't wreck the airframe if it
> > > happened you would at least be able to get home.
> >
> > I've never been able to find a definitive answer to the 'not for
> hiway
> > use' wheelbarrow tire / trailer tire discussion...but I have a
> theory
> > that the trailer tire tread is 'hardened' in some way that makes it
> > suitable for long hours of high speed running on ashphalt/pavement.
> >
> > The experience on this list with the original wheelbarrow tires
> seems to
> > bear this out. Those working from grass strips seem to get a lot
> more
> > use from these tires than those running on paved airports.
> >
> > And when you think of it, our aircraft don't spend enough time on
> the
> > ground to heat the tires up significantly, so I think it all comes
> down
> > to load capability more than tread wear, especially if you're not
> always
> > on the pavement.
> >
> > I'd like to get more technical information to affirm or refute my
> > theory... if anyone finds a good 'tire' theory page on the net
> > somewhere???....
> >
> > --
> > Grant Corriveau
> > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
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