Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:34 AM - Re: First Flight (Grant Corriveau)
2. 06:58 AM - Re: Sucking on Fuel (Dr. Perry Morrison)
3. 07:24 AM - Re: Fw: Reality Check (caspainhower@aep.com)
4. 08:26 AM - Traffic Proximity Alert Systems (Schallgren@aol.com)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: Traffic Proximity Alert Systems (Scott Laughlin)
6. 08:47 AM - Re: First Flight (Gary Gower)
7. 08:55 AM - Re: Sucking on Fuel (Gary Gower)
8. 09:01 AM - 4 Point Shoulder Harness (Schallgren@aol.com)
9. 09:07 AM - Re: Traffic Proximity Alert Systems (photo missing) (Gary Gower)
10. 09:13 AM - Re: Traffic Proximity Alert Systems (Perry M. Chappano)
11. 10:51 AM - High Density Altitude performance (Bill Howerton)
12. 12:36 PM - Panel Items... (Michael Stempf)
13. 01:23 PM - Re: First Flight (Bryan Martin)
14. 02:57 PM - Re: High Density Altitude performance (Philip Polstra)
15. 03:01 PM - Re: Panel Items... (Don Honabach)
16. 03:02 PM - Re: Panel Items... (Philip Polstra)
17. 04:15 PM - Re: Heffer of a Bird (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com)
18. 04:18 PM - Re: First Flight (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com)
19. 06:43 PM - Re: High Density Altitude performance (Gary Gower)
20. 06:49 PM - Re: High Density Altitude performance (Benford2@aol.com)
21. 11:34 PM - Re: High Density Altitude performance (B K Johnson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> Continental 0-200 (100hp) turning a 68" Warp Drive (Three Blade) prop
> @2500rpm climbing out. The prop is set at 10deg as recommended by Duane at
> Warp drive.
...
> I'm always up for any ideas or comments.
>
> Thanks
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
Hi again John,
I wonder if you're running in 'super low gear' at that prop setting. Is this
measured at the tip of the prop with the Warp Drive protractor?
By comparison, I have a CAM100 (100 hp) with a 3 blade Warp 70" (tapered)
prop. I've had my pitch set as low as 12 degrees and as high as 18 degrees.
At 12 degrees the acceleration was good, but the cruise speed was low.
At 18 degrees there wasn't much loss of acceleration, but the engine seemed
to be 'lugging'. I'm currently set at 16 degrees and with propellor RPM of
about 2100 in climb if feels pretty good. Full throttle Static RPM (i.e.
while securely tied down and chocked on the main wheels) is
4900(engine)/2050 prop.
(according to some rules of thumb, 1" of prop length equals roughly 100 rpm
equals roughly 1degree of pitch... I might downsize my prop to 68 inches
later so I can go to another degree or so of pitch without lugging)
Have you performed a static RPM check? Another check highly recommended
might be a static THRUST test. I think you rebuilt this engine yourself -
right? So if it hasn't had a dynomometer test on a stand, this is probably
even more important.... I'm not an expert on how this is done other than to
say that you anchor the tail to a solid point and insert a gauge in the line
to measure thrust at full power. I think more specific details are covered
in various sources like Heinz's online 'College of Design' section, or
Bingelis, or in the archives here?
The bottom line is that with 100 HP you should be getting better
performance.
Regards,
Grant
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Sucking on Fuel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" <prm@softhome.net>
Yep,
All good points. There's probably a legacy of people copying standard
aircraft/avgas
fuel systems that are unappropriate for those of us running unleaded mogas.
I've reverted back to my old system- taking out the filter and just using
the finger
"screen" (I forget what people on the other side of the Pacific call them)
on the
inlet side of the pump. It would probably be healthier on the outlet side
though.
I'm taking collective advice here. This w/end I'll measure the fuel flow
rate on the
ground. Empty and blow out the header tank, looking for garbage and
inspecting the
bottom valve, then remeasure fuel flow. If there's a difference then that
may have been
a contributory factor to my emptying filter phenomenon. I would be very
surprised
to see much rubbish after 140 hrs and the fact that ALL fuel in my plane is
filtered
twice through a very fine water trapping funnel- once at the bowser and once
as it goes in the plane.
Apart from the dangers of suck- there's a movie title if I ever heard one-
the most sobering advice is to maybe keep the facet pump on at all times.
With the filter
now removed it now only sucks through the finger filter before pushing
through the
rest of the sytem. And anyway, what harm is done in running the pump the
whole
time? There's been many a flight when I've omitted to turn the thing off!
Perry Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sucking on Fuel
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Yes and Most will be sucking Avgas and not auto fuel....
>
> I don't have an engine pump so I use the Facets all the time.
>
> Take off is the place you want to use your Facet pump because TO is very
> different to cruise because...
>
> 1) Fuel flow is much greater...and pressure through a restriction is
> proportional to the square of the flowrate...if you double the flow it
will
> be 4 times the suck!...I mean pressure...:)
>
> 2) Consider its 35C outside and your plane has been sat on the blacktop
> outside the FBO...What do u think your fuel temp in your tanks might be?
>
>
> I have known folks who tell me that have seen their fuel in the sight
Gauge
> BOILING when they get in the plane (yes I know it will be hotter in the
> cockpit due to solar gain thru the canopy)...but its not being sucked on
in
> the tank either.
>
> Now you taxi to the run up area...forget the run up...and go full throttle
> with fuel that is close to boiling and now your giving it a healthy suck
> through the filter as well....
>
>
> Note I always scan the design of a homebuilt fuel system on a hot day
before
> accepting a ride from someone!
>
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr. Perry Morrison [mailto:prm@softhome.net]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Sucking on Fuel
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
> --> <prm@softhome.net>
>
> Frank,
>
> Most aircraft will have an engine mounted pump as their primary and will
> therefore be sucking most of the time.
>
> Or do people actually use their electric boost pump all the time? I only
use
> mine for landing/takeoff
>
> Perry Morrison
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> > I agree with almost all of this except that I think Lower octane fuels
> > vapourise easier than higher octane fuels.....Notably 87 auto fuel
> vaporises
> > much easierthan 100 octane avgas.
> >
> > Either way...Don't suck on the fuel!!!
> >
> > Frank
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Reality Check |
05/21/2003 10:20:46 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
1.. To those who are building right now: How good are the
instructions/blueprints for the building of the airplane? How many pages
are in the construction manual? Are the instructions clear, easy to
understand and follow for the first time builder? Realistically, if one
works 6-8 hours a day on the weekend how much can really be accomplished?
I've been working 1-2 hrs most evenings and 4 - 6 hrs when I get a day off.
I've completed the tail and one aileron (I started in late March). I have
no problem picking up where I left off from the previous day. I have found
the prints and pictoral manual to be pretty easy to follow, as long as I
read everything.
2.. How's the delivery time for the kit or for modules of the kit? What
is the wait-time for delivery?
ZAC says to allow 3 weeks I think, it hasn't taken any longer than that for
me.
3.. How's the quality of the parts in the kit?
So far all the parts have fit properly and I haven't had any
damaged/defective parts.
4.. The Zenith website states that the airplane can be built only with
simple hand tools. Is this for real?
A pnuematic riveter is a must (check Harbor Freight or other discount tool
outlets), otherwise aviation snips, clamps, clecos, files and a hack saw is
all I've needed so far.
Craig S.
601 XL tails done, wings in prog.
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Traffic Proximity Alert Systems |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
List:
We fly out of Front Range (FTG) which is within 5 miles of Denver Int'l. We
have observed a number of aircraft suddenly appear within close proximity to
our aircraft. For example, I recently had an Air Force C-130 try to occupy
my airspace twice within ten minutes. The result is that we are seriously
considering purchasing a Traffic Proximity Alert System (TPAS).
AVSHOP currently is selling two versions of TPAS, the Monroy and Surechek.
Both are $595 and appear to be very similar. Does any one have experience
using either one or have comments about their use?
Stan
601 HDS/Jabiru 3300/Sensenich
98 hours
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Traffic Proximity Alert Systems |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Stan:
I fly right-seat on our corporate Conquest on occasion and we have a
computer lady that alerts us of aircraft in the area, then it shows where
the aircraft is (how close and in what direction). I like it, but I imagine
that system is quite expensive. It is tied into an audio checklist (same
computer lady) and it is very fancy.
I think it would be handy if you could find one for under $500.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Schallgren@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Traffic Proximity Alert Systems
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
List:
We fly out of Front Range (FTG) which is within 5 miles of Denver Int'l.
We
have observed a number of aircraft suddenly appear within close proximity to
our aircraft. For example, I recently had an Air Force C-130 try to occupy
my airspace twice within ten minutes. The result is that we are seriously
considering purchasing a Traffic Proximity Alert System (TPAS).
AVSHOP currently is selling two versions of TPAS, the Monroy and Surechek.
Both are $595 and appear to be very similar. Does any one have experience
using either one or have comments about their use?
Stan
601 HDS/Jabiru 3300/Sensenich
98 hours
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Grant:
Something similar happened here, there are two Kitfox "6" diferent
owners, one has a Rotax 912 S (100 hp) and the other one a 235 (Co or
Ly?) about 115 hp. both engines are factory new.
Well the take of and climb performance of the Rotax one is awsome, the
one with the 235 climbs like a C 172... The 235 is more expensive,
heavy and the flying performance is diferent (more like a 150), maybe
because is a direct drive and the extra weight? The owner is very
dispointed.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
> > Continental 0-200 (100hp) turning a 68" Warp Drive (Three Blade)
> prop
> > @2500rpm climbing out. The prop is set at 10deg as recommended by
> Duane at
> > Warp drive.
> ...
> > I'm always up for any ideas or comments.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > John W. Tarabocchia
>
> Hi again John,
>
> I wonder if you're running in 'super low gear' at that prop setting.
> Is this
> measured at the tip of the prop with the Warp Drive protractor?
>
> By comparison, I have a CAM100 (100 hp) with a 3 blade Warp 70"
> (tapered)
> prop. I've had my pitch set as low as 12 degrees and as high as 18
> degrees.
> At 12 degrees the acceleration was good, but the cruise speed was
> low.
>
> At 18 degrees there wasn't much loss of acceleration, but the engine
> seemed
> to be 'lugging'. I'm currently set at 16 degrees and with propellor
> RPM of
> about 2100 in climb if feels pretty good. Full throttle Static RPM
> (i.e.
> while securely tied down and chocked on the main wheels) is
> 4900(engine)/2050 prop.
>
> (according to some rules of thumb, 1" of prop length equals roughly
> 100 rpm
> equals roughly 1degree of pitch... I might downsize my prop to 68
> inches
> later so I can go to another degree or so of pitch without lugging)
>
> Have you performed a static RPM check? Another check highly
> recommended
> might be a static THRUST test. I think you rebuilt this engine
> yourself -
> right? So if it hasn't had a dynomometer test on a stand, this is
> probably
> even more important.... I'm not an expert on how this is done other
> than to
> say that you anchor the tail to a solid point and insert a gauge in
> the line
> to measure thrust at full power. I think more specific details are
> covered
> in various sources like Heinz's online 'College of Design' section,
> or
> Bingelis, or in the archives here?
>
> The bottom line is that with 100 HP you should be getting better
> performance.
>
> Regards,
> Grant
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sucking on Fuel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Perry,
Here we dont use filters in our gasoline lines, we filter all the fuel
the old way before entering the tank: Funnel with deer skin cloth as
a filter; all the debris and water stays there, just wash the cloth
with soap rinse well and let it dry for the next fill up.
We learn this from the cropduster and bush pilots.
Saludos
Gary Gower
PS. I do the same with the gasoline of my Enfield mtorcycle.
--- "Dr. Perry Morrison" <prm@softhome.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
> <prm@softhome.net>
>
> Yep,
>
> All good points. There's probably a legacy of people copying standard
> aircraft/avgas
> fuel systems that are unappropriate for those of us running unleaded
> mogas.
>
> I've reverted back to my old system- taking out the filter and just
> using
> the finger
> "screen" (I forget what people on the other side of the Pacific call
> them)
> on the
> inlet side of the pump. It would probably be healthier on the outlet
> side
> though.
>
> I'm taking collective advice here. This w/end I'll measure the fuel
> flow
> rate on the
> ground. Empty and blow out the header tank, looking for garbage and
> inspecting the
> bottom valve, then remeasure fuel flow. If there's a difference then
> that
> may have been
> a contributory factor to my emptying filter phenomenon. I would be
> very
> surprised
> to see much rubbish after 140 hrs and the fact that ALL fuel in my
> plane is
> filtered
> twice through a very fine water trapping funnel- once at the bowser
> and once
> as it goes in the plane.
>
> Apart from the dangers of suck- there's a movie title if I ever heard
> one-
> the most sobering advice is to maybe keep the facet pump on at all
> times.
> With the filter
> now removed it now only sucks through the finger filter before
> pushing
> through the
> rest of the sytem. And anyway, what harm is done in running the pump
> the
> whole
> time? There's been many a flight when I've omitted to turn the thing
> off!
>
> Perry Morrison
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sucking on Fuel
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> > Yes and Most will be sucking Avgas and not auto fuel....
> >
> > I don't have an engine pump so I use the Facets all the time.
> >
> > Take off is the place you want to use your Facet pump because TO is
> very
> > different to cruise because...
> >
> > 1) Fuel flow is much greater...and pressure through a restriction
> is
> > proportional to the square of the flowrate...if you double the flow
> it
> will
> > be 4 times the suck!...I mean pressure...:)
> >
> > 2) Consider its 35C outside and your plane has been sat on the
> blacktop
> > outside the FBO...What do u think your fuel temp in your tanks
> might be?
> >
> >
> > I have known folks who tell me that have seen their fuel in the
> sight
> Gauge
> > BOILING when they get in the plane (yes I know it will be hotter in
> the
> > cockpit due to solar gain thru the canopy)...but its not being
> sucked on
> in
> > the tank either.
> >
> > Now you taxi to the run up area...forget the run up...and go full
> throttle
> > with fuel that is close to boiling and now your giving it a healthy
> suck
> > through the filter as well....
> >
> >
> > Note I always scan the design of a homebuilt fuel system on a hot
> day
> before
> > accepting a ride from someone!
> >
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dr. Perry Morrison [mailto:prm@softhome.net]
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Sucking on Fuel
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
> > --> <prm@softhome.net>
> >
> > Frank,
> >
> > Most aircraft will have an engine mounted pump as their primary and
> will
> > therefore be sucking most of the time.
> >
> > Or do people actually use their electric boost pump all the time? I
> only
> use
> > mine for landing/takeoff
> >
> > Perry Morrison
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK
> (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> > <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> > >
> > > I agree with almost all of this except that I think Lower octane
> fuels
> > > vapourise easier than higher octane fuels.....Notably 87 auto
> fuel
> > vaporises
> > > much easierthan 100 octane avgas.
> > >
> > > Either way...Don't suck on the fuel!!!
> > >
> > > Frank
> >
> >
> > advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | 4 Point Shoulder Harness |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
List:
Graham had an interesting solution to the 3 point should harness problem.
I certainly agree that it can slip off your left shoulder in the pilot's
seat. We wear our shoulder harness over the right shoulder and it will not
slip off there. The downside to this solution is a slightly increased emergency
exit time. In our installation the headphones are over our left shoulder
so the harness being over our right shoulder does make for some interference
problems.
Stan
601 HDS
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Traffic Proximity Alert Systems (photo missing) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Stan,
Every time someone post the identifier of his airport of any airport
they visit, I go and take a look... just for fun. in yours
http://www.airnav.com/airport/FTG
There is no photo. It would be great to have one. Maybe you can send
it, or tell the Administrator to send one.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- Schallgren@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
>
> List:
>
> We fly out of Front Range (FTG) which is within 5 miles of Denver
> Int'l. We
> have observed a number of aircraft suddenly appear within close
> proximity to
> our aircraft. For example, I recently had an Air Force C-130 try to
> occupy
> my airspace twice within ten minutes. The result is that we are
> seriously
> considering purchasing a Traffic Proximity Alert System (TPAS).
>
> AVSHOP currently is selling two versions of TPAS, the Monroy and
> Surechek.
> Both are $595 and appear to be very similar. Does any one have
> experience
> using either one or have comments about their use?
>
> Stan
> 601 HDS/Jabiru 3300/Sensenich
> 98 hours
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Traffic Proximity Alert Systems |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Perry M. Chappano" <polestar@prodigy.net>
Stan,
I use the SureChek model. It works pretty well if what you want is something to
supplement your scan by giving you a heads up that something with a transponder
is nearby. Takes a little while to get used to the flashing numbers and lights,
and something repeating "monitor traffic" or worse is going to grab your
attention. I usually turn the volume off/way down on final so I can concentrate
on flying the plane.
Aviation Consumer rated both and preferred the Monroy.
I bought mine from AvShop and I'm pretty sure you get 30 days to try it out so
give one or both a shot and see what you like.
Good luck!
Perry
NC32372 - 1940 Porterfield
N9961 - 601XL (rudder complete, elevator nearing completion)
do not archive
Schallgren@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
>
> List:
>
> We fly out of Front Range (FTG) which is within 5 miles of Denver Int'l. We
> have observed a number of aircraft suddenly appear within close proximity to
> our aircraft. For example, I recently had an Air Force C-130 try to occupy
> my airspace twice within ten minutes. The result is that we are seriously
> considering purchasing a Traffic Proximity Alert System (TPAS).
>
> AVSHOP currently is selling two versions of TPAS, the Monroy and Surechek.
> Both are $595 and appear to be very similar. Does any one have experience
> using either one or have comments about their use?
>
> Stan
> 601 HDS/Jabiru 3300/Sensenich
> 98 hours
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | High Density Altitude performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
Hi Stan, I have a question for you and the collective group. I am based out
of MeadowLake Airport, which is approximately 12 miles NE of Colorado
Springs. The field elevation is 6874 feet. On a warm day, it is not
uncommon to see the DA climb well above 9000 feet and sometimes even peak
above 10,000 feet. The question I have is this: Does anyone have any
performance statistics on the 601 at high density altitude? Specifically,
how does the DA affect rate of climb, take-off, landing, useful load etc.?
This is especially pertinent because I'm in the process of building a 601XL,
and need to decide which engine to buy. Because of the DA, I'm leaning
toward the bigger motors like the Lycoming 235 or the Corvair O-190 due to
their horsepower, but have no hard numbers to back up those decisions. I've
asked a number of sources including ZAC and the engine manufacturers but no
one seems to know.
Surely someone in this list can provide the data I'm looking for.
Bill Howerton
>
>
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Stempf" <mstempf@earthlink.net>
All,
I am starting to look into what I want on my panel and I have some
questions for others who have already gone through this process.
I am building a 601 XL. So far I am thinking about the following:
GPS/Com Garmin 250XL
Transponder Garmin GTX-327
Intercom - Not sure, but I would like to have the ability to plug a cd
player into it.
Engine Monitor VM1000 - but I talked with Vision Microsystems and they
stated that the system was not setup for a Jabiru or a Rotex engine, but
they THINK it may work.
Does anyone have any other suggestions/comments? Does anyone have the
VM1000 with the Jabiru 3300 engine?
Any recommendations between the Rotex 912s and the Jabiru 3300?
Also - should I a vacuum pump or go all electric? The aircraft will
strictly be a VFR, but with some night flights.
I know this is a lot of questions - I am a first time builder and I just
want to make sure I put everything in that I will need on the first try.
Thanks so much for the help,
Michael Stempf
601XL Ser 5054
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 5/20/03 10:00 PM, ZodiacBuilder@aol.com at ZodiacBuilder@aol.com wrote:
>
> Continental 0-200 (100hp) turning a 68" Warp Drive (Three Blade) prop
> @2500rpm climbing out. The prop is set at 10deg as recommended by Duane at
> Warp drive.
>
>
> Climb at 1300lbs. is 250fpm and at 1090lbs it climbs at 500fpm.
>
>
> Nothing unusual about the airplane that would make me suspicious, other than
> the fat wig and short wings.
>
>
> I'm always up for any ideas or comments.
>
> Thanks
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
The "fat" wing shouldn't hurt your climb performance, its high drag mostly
effects your max cruise speed. All else being equal, your climb performance
is most effected by how much thrust you have. As I recall the recommended
pitch angle for my 100 Hp Subaru with a three blade Warp Drive prop is 14 to
17 degrees. The 10 degrees you are using sounds a bit low but I don't recall
the diameter of my prop, it may not be the same as yours. It sounds to me
that either your engine is not developing its full 100 HP or its power is
not being converted to thrust efficiently at the prop.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
Message 14
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| Subject: | High Density Altitude performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
I don't live in a high elevation (1040 MSL), but I can say that my
Stratus-powered CH601HDS was still climbing like a champ at 14k. Solo I get
1300+ fpm climbs, at full gross about 800 fpm. Even at 14k I was getting
better than 500 fpm solo. Of course, your mileage (and climb rate) may
vary.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
The question I have is this: Does anyone have any
performance statistics on the 601 at high density altitude? Specifically,
how does the DA affect rate of climb, take-off, landing, useful load etc.?
---
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
You may also want to look at the UPS/Apollo GPX65 Combo Unit (GPS/Com).
As for the Intercom, I've pretty much decided to go with PS
Engineering's Intercom (www.ps-engineering). Most likely will go with
the PM1200 unit, but considering the PM1000II unit as well. Both of
these units are stereo, have good noise/VOX circuits, and music inputs.
In either case, enjoy the spending spree. Can't believe how much money
I've dropped by panel items :)
Regards,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Stempf [mailto:mstempf@earthlink.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: Panel Items...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Stempf"
--> <mstempf@earthlink.net>
All,
I am starting to look into what I want on my panel and I have some
questions for others who have already gone through this process.
I am building a 601 XL. So far I am thinking about the following:
GPS/Com Garmin 250XL
Transponder Garmin GTX-327
Intercom - Not sure, but I would like to have the ability to plug a cd
player into it.
Engine Monitor VM1000 - but I talked with Vision Microsystems and they
stated that the system was not setup for a Jabiru or a Rotex engine, but
they THINK it may work.
Does anyone have any other suggestions/comments? Does anyone have the
VM1000 with the Jabiru 3300 engine?
Any recommendations between the Rotex 912s and the Jabiru 3300?
Also - should I a vacuum pump or go all electric? The aircraft will
strictly be a VFR, but with some night flights.
I know this is a lot of questions - I am a first time builder and I just
want to make sure I put everything in that I will need on the first try.
Thanks so much for the help,
Michael Stempf
601XL Ser 5054
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Stempf" <mstempf@earthlink.net>
>I am building a 601 XL. So far I am thinking about the >>following:
>GPS/Com Garmin 250XL
Have one and love it
>Transponder Garmin GTX-327
Nice, but too expensive for me. Collins TDR-950 in my panel.
>Intercom - Not sure, but I would like to have the ability >to plug a cd
>player into it.
I have a CD player in my panel. See
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra/plane.html for some pictures.
>Also - should I a vacuum pump or go all electric? The >>>aircraft will
>strictly be a VFR, but with some night flights.
I have no gyros, but have recently installed the Anywhere AI system from
Control Vision. It is cheaper than electric gyros, can be used in other
planes, has an awesome color GPS as part of the sytem, and you can use the
iPaq for other stuff when not flying.
---
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Heffer of a Bird |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com
Hi Grant,
I have done several static full power run ups.
(Warp drive 68" standard 3 blade prop set at the tips with supplied
protractor.)
All results are at gross weight-
Results: Prop pitch Static rpm Climb rpm Vert Speed
Cruise Speed
10deg. 2400 2550 250
100
11deg. 2300 2450 200
110
12geg 2200 2350 100
120
I'm very confident that the motor is producing rated power, or at least close
to it.
I seriously think the fat wing, very fat cowling, many air intakes, and small
prop are conspiring to produce drag.
I also suspect that the mechanic that did the original weigh in, used the
wrong equipment. He used commercial sized scales that are used to weigh
jets. He had a very hard time calibrating it in the lower weight setting.
My plans are to build HD wings and sell my HDS wings whole, with all the
accessories (Strobes, Nav, and Landing-taxi lights, etc.).
Thanks for the thoughts,
John W. Tarabocchia
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com
In a message dated 5/21/2003 4:23:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bryanmmartin@comcast.net writes:
> It sounds to me
> that either your engine is not developing its full 100 HP or its power is
> not being converted to thrust efficiently at the prop.
>
Bryan,
I think you may be right. I also think the prop is not matched to the engine
efficiently.
John W. Tarabocchia
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: High Density Altitude performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Bill
We are finishing a 701 with a 912S Then we will build a 601 XL.
I think the 912S will perform well.
We are at 4,997 ft ASL and here is hot in summer.
There is a Kitfox 6 that climbs like sick angel with the 912S. Another
one with a 235 is "normal" (C 172) climb. Probably is the reduction
in the Rotax.
Maybe the Jab 3300 will perform better (less weight).
Just my opinion, hope we have our XL's flying at the same time 1 or 2
years later...
Here we normally use the bigger engine the plane allows... here you see
Quicksilver 400 UL with 582 Rotax...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
--- Bill Howerton <Bill@Howerton.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton"
> <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> Hi Stan, I have a question for you and the collective group. I am
> based out
> of MeadowLake Airport, which is approximately 12 miles NE of Colorado
> Springs. The field elevation is 6874 feet. On a warm day, it is not
> uncommon to see the DA climb well above 9000 feet and sometimes even
> peak
> above 10,000 feet. The question I have is this: Does anyone have
> any
> performance statistics on the 601 at high density altitude?
> Specifically,
> how does the DA affect rate of climb, take-off, landing, useful load
> etc.?
>
> This is especially pertinent because I'm in the process of building a
> 601XL,
> and need to decide which engine to buy. Because of the DA, I'm
> leaning
> toward the bigger motors like the Lycoming 235 or the Corvair O-190
> due to
> their horsepower, but have no hard numbers to back up those
> decisions. I've
> asked a number of sources including ZAC and the engine manufacturers
> but no
> one seems to know.
>
> Surely someone in this list can provide the data I'm looking for.
>
> Bill Howerton
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: High Density Altitude performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 5/21/2003 3:58:11 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ppolstra@mindspring.com writes:
>
> I don't live in a high elevation (1040 MSL), but I can say that my
> Stratus-powered CH601HDS was still climbing like a champ at 14k. Solo I get
> 1300+ fpm climbs, at full gross about 800 fpm. Even at 14k I was getting
> better than 500 fpm solo. Of course, your mileage (and climb rate) may
> vary.
>
500 feet per minute at 14,000 msl?????? Thats hard to believe..
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: High Density Altitude performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: B K Johnson <wa7dvd@attbi.com>
Hi,
I am in Salt Lake City, and also building a 601XL. Here the DA frequently goes
above 8000.
I have been thinking some about the Rotax 914. It is only 115hp at sea level,
but it can produce that power all the way to 18000 feet. At 7500 it will
produce more cruise power than a Jabiru 3300. I am just starting the wings so
I
have a while to make the decision.
Bruce Johnson
Bill Howerton wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> Hi Stan, I have a question for you and the collective group. I am based out
> of MeadowLake Airport, which is approximately 12 miles NE of Colorado
> Springs. The field elevation is 6874 feet. On a warm day, it is not
> uncommon to see the DA climb well above 9000 feet and sometimes even peak
> above 10,000 feet. The question I have is this: Does anyone have any
> performance statistics on the 601 at high density altitude? Specifically,
> how does the DA affect rate of climb, take-off, landing, useful load etc.?
>
> This is especially pertinent because I'm in the process of building a 601XL,
> and need to decide which engine to buy. Because of the DA, I'm leaning
> toward the bigger motors like the Lycoming 235 or the Corvair O-190 due to
> their horsepower, but have no hard numbers to back up those decisions. I've
> asked a number of sources including ZAC and the engine manufacturers but no
> one seems to know.
>
> Surely someone in this list can provide the data I'm looking for.
>
> Bill Howerton
> >
> >
>
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