---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/27/03: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:26 AM - Re: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... (Benford2@aol.com) 2. 03:32 AM - Re: Flanging lightening holes (Don Gordon) 3. 04:16 AM - Crank case vent (Aaron) 4. 05:03 AM - Re: Experimenting with prop pitch..... (Beckman, Rick) 5. 05:29 AM - 701 doors (John Birgiolas) 6. 06:15 AM - Re: 701 doors (Elwood140@aol.com) 7. 06:27 AM - My 601XL Homepage (Gig) 8. 06:34 AM - Re: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... (Don Honabach) 9. 06:48 AM - Re: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... (Benford2@aol.com) 10. 08:53 AM - Re: 701 doors (Gary Gower) 11. 09:16 AM - Re: Tygon Tubing and Grommets... (Bryan Martin) 12. 11:07 AM - Re: 701 doors (ac6qj@earthlink.net) 13. 11:26 AM - Re: TIG welding... (Jari Kaija) 14. 11:53 AM - Re: 701 doors (Frank Stutzman) 15. 12:33 PM - Re: 701 doors (ac6qj@earthlink.net) 16. 01:00 PM - 701 doors (LARRY BOHANNON) 17. 02:22 PM - Re: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... (Flydog1966@aol.com) 18. 04:12 PM - Re: 701 doors (Chuck Deiterich) 19. 05:43 PM - 601XL Rear Rib Attachment (W.R. \) 20. 05:46 PM - flanging die/ bolt (Fred Poor) 21. 05:49 PM - Re: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... (Don Honabach) 22. 06:14 PM - Tig Welding (Brandon Tucker) 23. 06:16 PM - Re: 701 doors (xl) 24. 06:17 PM - Re: 701 doors (Frank Stutzman) 25. 06:58 PM - Re: flanging dies (Monty Graves) 26. 07:01 PM - Re: 701 doors (ac6qj@earthlink.net) 27. 07:03 PM - Re: 701 doors (ac6qj@earthlink.net) 28. 07:50 PM - Re: 701 doors (Scott Harding) 29. 07:52 PM - Problem solved (Chris Weber) 30. 08:06 PM - Re: flanging die/ bolt (George Swinford) 31. 08:21 PM - Re: 701 doors (Cy Galley) 32. 08:58 PM - VDO Fuel Sender & 601XL Fuel Tanks (ac6qj@earthlink.net) 33. 09:17 PM - CH-640 project (Jeff Paden) 34. 09:53 PM - Assembling Wing Skin 601HD (Graham Kirby) 35. 11:01 PM - Re: Assembling Wing Skin 601HD (Don Honabach) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:27 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 5/26/2003 9:31:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time, don@pcperfect.com writes: > > If anyone is or has used the rubber grommets from Aircraft Spruce to aid > in running your Tygon based tubing for your static/pitot lines, most > likely you'll want to replace this right away. I ran mine in my wing > with these grommets and the rubber grommets reacted with the Tygon > tubing and now the tubing is destoryed in any area where the tubing came > into contact with the grommet :( > > For what it's worth, I've since switch to the plastic grommets and > hoping these won't react with the tubing. > > Regards, > Don Honabach > I hope the hell you are kidding ??????? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:02 AM PST US From: "Don Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flanging lightening holes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Gordon" Hi Carlos I went through the same faze I made the 2 dies from a dence plastic sheet ( polyethelene ) spun them on the lath with a centering plug put the piece into the die and just hit it with a large hammer work out perfect Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Zenith-List: Flanging lightening holes > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Hello, all > > > For almost a month, I have been working on different items, avoiding the logical > next step in the projet: > Flanging the lightening holes. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:02 AM PST US From: "Aaron" Subject: Zenith-List: Crank case vent --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" How does Stratus or any other EA81 users vent the crankcase? Where do the valve cover nipples go to? How are they terminated? Any oil separator or the like? Aaron ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:38 AM PST US From: "Beckman, Rick" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" > Please excuse me if this is totally ridiculous but, could your prop be on > backwards? > > Good thought, but the thrust would be in the forward direction. (Reverse thrust) Sorry to burst a bubble, but the thrust would be in the same direction. Think of the pitch as the compass line on a DG. If you have a line across 90 to 180, the reciprocal ( like turning the prop over) is still 180 to 90. Same line, same pitch. Rick XL ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:54 AM PST US From: "John Birgiolas" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Birgiolas" Has anyone flown with the 701 doors hinged open. It seems the flying characteristics would be altered and the doors would buffet significantly? Is there a photo available of a sliding or hinged window ? Thanks, John ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:21 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com Hi, all Just a note about flying the 701 with the doors open. Nick Heintz says it is not advisable to do that. Okay to fly with the doors off, though. Larry Wood ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:37 AM PST US From: Gig Subject: Zenith-List: My 601XL Homepage --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig I have finally got my homepage for my 601XL to the point that I'm not embarassed by it. Please feel free to visit and if you do please sign my guest book. http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Gig Giacona ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:44 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" >> I hope the hell you are kidding ??????? Wish I were. Just got done re-ordering some replacement Tygon tubing. The tubing wall thinned considerably at the grommet area and the tubing turned black about an inch to each side of the grommet hole. Technically the tubing is functional, but the deterioration is major and if it continues will cause the tubing to break/fail. In any case, if you have the stuff with the rubber grommets, definitely worth a quick inspection. However, I didn't noticed any problems during the first 6 months, and the wings have been sitting for around 2 to 3 years. My guess is that the tubing was affected pretty quickly right at the grommet and then over time spread outside the grommet area and was then noticeable without moving the tubing. For what it's worth, the tubing outside of the grommet areas has held up like it's brand new. Sorry for the bad news :( Don -----Original Message----- From: Benford2@aol.com [mailto:Benford2@aol.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 5/26/2003 9:31:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time, don@pcperfect.com writes: > > If anyone is or has used the rubber grommets from Aircraft Spruce to > aid in running your Tygon based tubing for your static/pitot lines, > most likely you'll want to replace this right away. I ran mine in my > wing with these grommets and the rubber grommets reacted with the > Tygon tubing and now the tubing is destoryed in any area where the > tubing came into contact with the grommet :( > > For what it's worth, I've since switch to the plastic grommets and > hoping these won't react with the tubing. > > Regards, > Don Honabach > I hope the hell you are kidding ??????? direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:48 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 5/27/2003 7:35:21 AM Mountain Daylight Time, don@pcperfect.com writes: > Honabach" > > >> I hope the hell you are kidding ??????? > > Wish I were. Just got done re-ordering some replacement Tygon tubing. > > The tubing wall thinned considerably at the grommet area and the tubing > turned black about an inch to each side of the grommet hole. > > Technically the tubing is functional, but the deterioration is major and > if it continues will cause the tubing to break/fail. > > In any case, if you have the stuff with the rubber grommets, definitely > worth a quick inspection. However, I didn't noticed any problems during > the first 6 months, and the wings have been sitting for around 2 to 3 > years. My guess is that the tubing was affected pretty quickly right at > the grommet and then over time spread outside the grommet area and was > then noticeable without moving the tubing. For what it's worth, the > tubing outside of the grommet areas has held up like it's brand new. > > Sorry for the bad news :( > > Don > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Benford2@aol.com [mailto:Benford2@aol.com] > My wings have been built for over two years now and I just went out to my hanger and looked real close at the mating area of the grommet to tubing. I used the tubing supplied by Zenith and grommets bought at AS&S. MIne show absolutely no signs of deterioration at all. I can sleep better now........\ Ben Haas N801BH. Jackson Hole Wy. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:01 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Just thinking... How will the HUGE baggage comparment will affect (like a drag chute) in the performance and handling of the 701? Maybe a sliding window will give enough vent. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Near to install the doors. --- John Birgiolas wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Birgiolas" > > > Has anyone flown with the 701 doors hinged open. It seems the flying > characteristics would be altered and the doors would buffet > significantly? > > Is there a photo available of a sliding or hinged window ? > > Thanks, John > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:25 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Tygon Tubing and Grommets... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 5/27/03 9:47 AM, Benford2@aol.com at Benford2@aol.com wrote: > My wings have been built for over two years now and I just went out to my > hanger and looked real close at the mating area of the grommet to tubing. I > used > the tubing supplied by Zenith and grommets bought at AS&S. MIne show > absolutely no signs of deterioration at all. I can sleep better now........\ > > Ben Haas N801BH. Jackson Hole Wy. > I think Zenith supplied polyethylene tubing or possibly nylon tubing. Neither should be affected by contact with the grommets and both are much cheaper than Tygon. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:52 AM PST US From: ac6qj@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net Had a friend push open a door on a Cessna, just slightly, to slam shut after retrieving a flapping passenger seat belt. The disturbed air over the the stabilizer caused a violent downward pitching moment. Unless the doors swing up/down and not out, it might not be a good idea to open the doors in flight. Having said that, flying around with the doors open on an aircraft designed to do so (SuperCubs and Mountain Goat included) is a real gas! -- Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ================================================================================ Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL SN #601-4939, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Construction - 50% completed ================================================================================ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:13 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: TIG welding... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" Maybe I should tell earlier, that I use TIG only for 4130N tubings, since I got many tips for aluminium welding. My fuel tanks was welded by professional aprx one and half year ago... I got a lot of a good tricks and tips considering about TIG welding. I believe, I have now every major information what I need to go on. Thanks goes to everyone! -Jari www.jarikaija.com www.project-ch701.net (Spammers! All spam messages will be deleted automatically from server, so, save your miserable time...) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:41 AM PST US From: Frank Stutzman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman On Tue, 27 May 2003 ac6qj@earthlink.net wrote: > Had a friend push open a door on a Cessna, just slightly, to slam > shut after retrieving a flapping passenger seat belt. The disturbed > air over the the stabilizer caused a violent downward pitching > moment. Unless the doors swing up/down and not out, it might not be > a good idea to open the doors in flight. Curious. I had a primary flight instructor who routinly the demonstrated "dive brakes" on a 152. Thottle to idle, full flaps and open both doors as much as you can (which is all of maybe 8 inches). Makes for an exceedingly steep approach. Probably not something you should do on a routine basis as its hard on the door hardware. I certainly don't remember any violent pitching. Perhaps your passenger bumped the yoke in the process of closing the door? Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" future 701 builder Hood River, OR ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:55 PM PST US From: ac6qj@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net >I certainly don't remember any violent pitching. Perhaps your passenger >bumped the yoke in the process of closing the door? > Nope, the yoke wasn't bumped. Wasn't me. It was a pilot friend and it was a Cessna 310. DO NOT ARCHIVE. -- Best regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:19 PM PST US From: "LARRY BOHANNON" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LARRY BOHANNON" Fred, I was planning on making my doors with the full lexan and would really like to have a opening window in the doors also.It gets really hot around here. Do you have any plans or pictures you can share on your doors? Also, I notice at the Skyshop website they have developed some bubble doors for the 701 which they are selling for around $300. They look really nice but ideally I would like to have the bubble doors with full lexan and opening window. Regards, Larry Bohannon building "Miss Ride Me High 701" Winder, Georgia --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor Also, Chris had plans available to install hinged windows in the forward (older style) swinging doors---- I covered my 701 doors entirely with clear lexan with a swing open window----- what great visibility, with the security of having the doors closed and great ventalation with the windows open, in flight and on the ground-- "fred" ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:59 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com tygon tube wall is thin? black on tubing? Could it be a case of the tygon is working back and forth in the gromet, wearing the wall thickness down and leaving black gromet stain on it? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:19 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Larry, I have full Lexan doors on my 701. I used a 3-1/4" diameter vent from Aircraft Spruce in each door just above the middle tube towards the front. They work very well and are a lot simpler to install. By hand, I used a fly cutter with a drilled (1/4" hole) of 2x6 behind the Lexan to hold the pilot drill straight. Took about 10 minutes. I practiced on scraps to get a good fit. I also designed my own door handles which work very well. Pix, but before vent installation, can be seen at http://members.thegateway.net/cfd . Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: LARRY BOHANNON Subject: Zenith-List: 701 doors > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LARRY BOHANNON" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:01 PM PST US From: "W.R. \"Gig\" Giacona" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Rear Rib Attachment --> Zenith-List message posted by: "W.R. \"Gig\" Giacona" How did get the main spar to say in an upright position as you attached the Rear Spars? This is the first thing I've come accross in the process that there is nothing in the construction manual to give you any idea how to do it. No text or photos. I have a feeling it is going to be a matter of clamping it in position but I don't want to reinvent the wheel here. Gig Giacona ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:37 PM PST US From: Fred Poor Subject: Zenith-List: flanging die/ bolt --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor I have a 3/8" hole drilled in the center of my dies-- I use a fine threaded bolt and draw the 2 halves together by tighten' ing the nut ( I usually use a "boxed -in" wrench in my left hand and a rachet in my right) until both pieces are tight against the aluminum piece I'm flanging. Has worked great for 2 planes----- "fred" do not archive __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:44 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" >> could it be a case of the tygon is working back and forth in the grommet, wearing the wall thickness down and leaving black grommet stain on it? Probably not in my case. The wing hasn't moved for a couple of years and the wall thinning is exactly the same dimensions of the grommet. From visual inspection is obvious that there was a reaction between the two materials. Good news is that this is probably just a Tygon versus rubber grommet issue. I would encourage anyone who did decide to 'upgrade' to Tygon to check any place where the tubing comes into contact with other rubber based materials. Don -----Original Message----- From: Flydog1966@aol.com [mailto:Flydog1966@aol.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zygon Tubing and Grommets... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com tygon tube wall is thin? black on tubing? Could it be a case of the tygon is working back and forth in the gromet, wearing the wall thickness down and leaving black gromet stain on it? direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:23 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Tig Welding --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Jari, Agree with other posts. For steel, it is best to use a 2% thoriated (red) tungsten, and pure tungsten (green) for aluminum. Use a sander / grinder to sharpen the 2% tip with the grind paralell to the tungsten for steel. For the shiny "ball" tip for aluminum, just strike a high amperage arc on any piece of mild steel, and it will form within a few seconds in AC. If you contaminate the tungsten while welding aluminum (very easy to do), remove it from the torch, hold the tungsten with a pair of pliers below the contamination, and smack it on the table to break off the contaminated end. Then just make a new "ball" as described above. For welding mild steel or stainless, keep the filler rod close to the puddle to pre heat it. While welding aluminum, keep the filler rod a bit furthur away or it will melt up the rod in a ball. Make sure you keep moving with aluminum as it dissipates heat much faster than steel, and your puddle will try to grow on you. I was a tig welder prior to joining the Navy mass producing windsurfing parts and chiropractic equipment. I love the look of a good TIG bead - specially on aluminum. By the look of your first weld, you'll be a pro in no time! Brandon Tucker --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:40 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl I forgot to close the fold up pilot's window on a Cessna 172. When I was climbing past the control tower I reached out and pulled it down. The wind caught it and my nose went up my airspeed went down and I turned left towards the tower. It was an exciting second. I let the window go for the moment, regained controlled and climbed. I eased the window closed later on when I had some altitude. It seems to me that things sticking out of the airplane can move it around unpredictably depending on how they interact with the slipstream. Joe On Tue, 27 May 2003 ac6qj@earthlink.net wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net > > >I certainly don't remember any violent pitching. Perhaps your passenger > >bumped the yoke in the process of closing the door? > > > > Nope, the yoke wasn't bumped. Wasn't me. It was a pilot friend and > it was a Cessna 310. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE. > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:35 PM PST US From: Frank Stutzman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman On Tue, 27 May 2003 ac6qj@earthlink.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net > > >I certainly don't remember any violent pitching. Perhaps your passenger > >bumped the yoke in the process of closing the door? > > > > Nope, the yoke wasn't bumped. Wasn't me. It was a pilot friend and > it was a Cessna 310. Ooo! a 310. Quite a bit of a different animal than a 152. Also quite a bit different than a 701. I don't have any personal experiance with the 310, but I do know simular planes (Beech Baron is what I'm familar with) that will indeed have some unusual behavior when the door is open. I'd guess that such behavior would be a because of disturbing the airflow between the fuselage and the engine nancelle. I would hazard a guess that such pitching behavior would never be seen in a single engined plane. DO NOT ARCHIVE Frank Stutzman future 701 builder Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:11 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: flanging dies --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves For guys that really don't have acces to a lathe or a good drill press (a friend made his on his floor drill press) There is a company in the St. Louis area called Mitter Bros Machine. They make flanging dies for the race car industry. They also made the ones Zenith uses to make all the kits with. Except Zenith has special ones that both cut and flange in one press process. I bought 2 dies off the shelf, in inches not mm which were a couple of mm smaller than what the plans called for. And had them custom machine the other one. Been a couple of years but I think all three were less than $200 And they are works of art really. Later I found out about flanging holes from the Bear Hawk (think thats correct) with what they call a "bob stick" It is now their choice for doing flanging holes. I think in their plane there is 8 size holes in like 150 various ribs. It is a simple hard wood dowel or square sanded down to about pinky finger size on one end. A slit cut with a hack saw blade is cut in the narrow end. A screw is drilled through to reinforce the slit so that the tips don't brake off. It helps to cut the slit so that the grain of the hard wood stick is postitioned for the max strength. slit is cut cross grain not parallel to it. The flange is made in the same priniciple we use to bend over the ribs. insert the slit over the alum to be flanged. Only bend about 25-33% of the flange at time. slowly at first working around the hole. bending a little then moving the stick a little. Go around 3-4 times. As silly as this may seem. I works very very well, and its faster than loading and unloading dies. Practice on 3 holes and you will be an expert,and hard pressed to tell the difference. It works on any shape hole, even square ones like in the GA ribs. I recently used it to make the welding flanges in the wing tanks to accept the weld on necks. If you haven't made dies yet, try the stick first, on some scrap. I don't think you will end up making them I have a couple of pictures of the little stick, somewhere if my description wasn't clear enough Monty ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:27 PM PST US From: ac6qj@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net >--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl > > >I forgot to close the fold up pilot's window on a Cessna 172. >When I was climbing past the control tower I reached out and pulled it >down. The wind caught it and my nose went up my airspeed went down and I >turned left towards the tower. It was an exciting second. I let the window >go for the moment, regained controlled and climbed. I eased the window >closed later on when I had some altitude. > >It seems to me that things sticking out of the airplane can move it around >unpredictably depending on how they interact with the slipstream. > >Joe > I once flew by the tower on approach to 32L at KCCR in a PA-18-150 with the door open, window open, holding the stick between my knees and flapping my arms out the door and window like a bird. Too much fun... OK - OK - I'll get back on topic now... DO NOT ARCHIVE -- Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ================================================================================ Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Construction ================================================================================ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:40 PM PST US From: ac6qj@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net >I would hazard a guess that such pitching behavior would >never be seen in a single engined plane. > You might be right. Certainly worth trying it at altitude where you have plenty of room to recover. If it is benign over the range of airspeeds and attitudes that you intend to fly in that configuration then I guess you're good to go! DO NOT ARCHIVE -- Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ================================================================================ Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL SN #601-4939, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Construction - 50% completed ================================================================================ ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:22 PM PST US From: Scott Harding Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott Harding I had the passenger door on C150 pop open on me once. I reached over, opened the door to give it a good slam shut and didn't notice anything usual. DO NOT ARCHIVE Scott Harding 701 Plans and Rudder...looking at the 601XL At 12:33 PM 5/27/03 -0700, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net > > >I certainly don't remember any violent pitching. Perhaps your passenger > >bumped the yoke in the process of closing the door? > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:34 PM PST US From: "Chris Weber" Subject: Zenith-List: Problem solved --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" Hello Listers, two weeks ago I encountered a pronounced lack of performance from my EA 81 during the maiden flight of my newly finished 601 Special. The problem ways fairly easy to find, after checking out the ignition we turned to the carbys and reset the needles to max. lean, with a marked improvement. The poor EA81 was virtually chocking on fuel above 4700 rpm! After replacing the jets and some fine adjusting it runs smooth and powerfull all through the range. I will have to reset the pitch, as I can now over-rev the engine straight and level. The empty weight of the plane is 710 lb, the BRS shure didn't help to keep the weight down, and with my 220 lb and 40 L of fuel she has a climb rate of 1100 ftpm. I am quite happy with that :-) The engine runs a bit cool, the water never goes over 70 C, so I will reduce the angle of the radiator under the rear spar, to gain a few degrees and maybe a knot or two in the process. Now that she climbs the plane is a pleasure to fly, very well balanced, she doesn't weave around as much as my first one, and the balance ball is centered most of the time without any input from me. I guess the different fuselage shape makes it a bit more steady as opposed to the bubble canopy. The longer undercarriage (about 15 cm) sees the wheels further forward, and while it is harder to see over the nose during taxi (taildragger) the plane rides more solid, no tendency to nose over at all. The mayor difference is the steadfast landing performance, my first taildragger with standard legs and 912 floated like a pelican on roundout, and short field landings were a bit of a problem. This one settles down nicely, and is very easy to control. The weather is a bit wet and windy with winter so close, but I hope to be up again on the weekend to get some decent performance figures at last, and to fly off the remaining hours of the test period. I will put some pictures on the photoshare soon. Last not least, I have started building again. One rainy day and the workshop sucks me in like a black hole. I have bought a Verner 1400, a nice little 80 hp four-stroke, two cylinder Czech aircooled engine, engine mount and all, and have started on the fuselage and the spars of the next project. It will be a Zodiac XL, well, sort of. I guess I shouldn't call a XL with tailwheel, two open cockpits in tandem and no taper in the wings an XL. I hold Chris H. in the highest regard, and I shouldn't do that to him. Because I want to keep it as straightforward as possible, no doors, no canopy, mechanical flaps operated with a lever from the rear pilot cockpit, K.I.S.S. strickes me as a better name. As it is a bastard I will not bore you guys with any more details, but I will let you know when it flies at some point in the future. Cheers from downunder, Chris Zodiac 601 TD Special, EA 81, 14 h TT ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:54 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: flanging die/ bolt --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" I've used the sane system, except with a larger coarse threaded bolt. Works great. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Poor" Subject: Zenith-List: flanging die/ bolt > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor > > I have a 3/8" hole drilled in the center of my dies-- > I use a fine threaded bolt and draw the 2 halves > together by tighten' ing the nut ( I usually use a > "boxed -in" wrench in my left hand and a rachet in my > right) until both pieces are tight against the > aluminum piece I'm flanging. Has worked great for 2 > planes----- "fred" do not archive > > __________________________________ > http://search.yahoo.com > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:43 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I believe that part of certification is a requirement to be able to maintain control with a door open. I know that an open door on my Bellanca changes little but makes lot of noise. On my plane you have to land to close as well. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com Actively supporting Aeroncas ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 doors > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net > > >I would hazard a guess that such pitching behavior would > >never be seen in a single engined plane. > > > > You might be right. Certainly worth trying it at altitude where you > have plenty of room to recover. If it is benign over the range of > airspeeds and attitudes that you intend to fly in that configuration > then I guess you're good to go! > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -- > > Best Regards, Ray Montagne > Cupertino, CA > > ============================================================================ ==== > > Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL SN #601-4939, Jabiru 3300 > Construction Log & Photos: > Build Status: Rudder completed > Elevator Completed > Stabilizer Completed > Flaps Completed > Ailerons Completed > Right Wing Under Construction - 50% completed > > ============================================================================ ==== > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:51 PM PST US From: ac6qj@earthlink.net Subject: Zenith-List: VDO Fuel Sender & 601XL Fuel Tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net Hello List, I'm about to install the VDO Fuel Level Sender into the leading edge fuel tanks on the XL. The VDO sender documentation indicates that the sender is to be installed vertically from the top of the fuel tank with the float arm extending out horizontally. The XL drawings show the sender installed horizontally into the side of the fuel tank. This would leave the float arm extended vertically to swing like a pendulum where the float arm needs to move more like the motion of moving your arm in a jumping jack to properly translate to rotation of the sender. Applying a 90 degree bend to the float arm would certainly translate the movement to the correct direction given the 90 degree change in orientation of mounting of the sender. Is this how other builders have solved this or is there another solution? -- Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ================================================================================ Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL SN #601-4939, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Construction - 50% completed ================================================================================ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:18 PM PST US From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Zenith-List: CH-640 project --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" Hello, I have decided not to continue building my CH-640. I have completed the Rudder and have started the kit for the tail wing but simply do not have the time needed to build this aircraft. We have instead been rebuilding our CH-300 and since my children will be grown and moved away before I can finish my CH-640 I simply do not have a need to continue.=0D =0D This has been a hard choice to make, but we love our CH-300 and since we are putting a Turbo Prop on her she will be more than we should ever need.=0D =0D If anyone on this list is interested in the completed rudder and the tail wing kit (started) then please contact me off the list at jeffpaden@madbbs com=0D =0D I want to get the kit out of my hanger before I change my mind =0D =0D Thank you all for your support over the past year.=0D =0D Jeff Paden=0D =0D do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:53 PM PST US From: "Graham Kirby" Subject: Zenith-List: Assembling Wing Skin 601HD --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" Has anyone found the secret to getting the wing skins nice and smooth, without using .020 in place of the .016? In the assembly manual it says to attach the crimped 'L' stiffeners to the skin before putting the skin onto the skeleton. I am uncomfortable with doing this for two reasons: The wing skin is pre-drilled so somehow I would have to drill from the skin side through the flexible stiffeners, and secondly I cannot imagine being able to keep the whole thing aligned. When I built the first wing I managed to attach the stiffeners once the skin was on the skeleton and clecoed to the ribs and spar. To do this I used masking tape to hold the stiffeners in position working through the lightening holes in the spar. The results were acceptable but the skin is not as uniform as I would like it to be. Graham Kirby ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Assembling Wing Skin 601HD From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Graham, I'm building a 601HDS, but I've yet to see a metal plane (especially the HD wing) that has glass type skins. If the skins don't get you, the ribs eventually will because of small little gaps that ultimately pull down the skin and give a little wave type affect. Only mention this in case you are trying to make your Zodiac a jet plane. I drove myself nuts and finally realized I was building a great simple Zodiac ;-) Regards, Don -----Original Message----- From: Graham Kirby [mailto:gkirby@yahoo.com] Subject: Zenith-List: Assembling Wing Skin 601HD --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" Has anyone found the secret to getting the wing skins nice and smooth, without using .020 in place of the .016? In the assembly manual it says to attach the crimped 'L' stiffeners to the skin before putting the skin onto the skeleton. I am uncomfortable with doing this for two reasons: The wing skin is pre-drilled so somehow I would have to drill from the skin side through the flexible stiffeners, and secondly I cannot imagine being able to keep the whole thing aligned. When I built the first wing I managed to attach the stiffeners once the skin was on the skeleton and clecoed to the ribs and spar. To do this I used masking tape to hold the stiffeners in position working through the lightening holes in the spar. The results were acceptable but the skin is not as uniform as I would like it to be. Graham Kirby direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.