---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/30/03: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:44 AM - brake pressures (Mark Sandidge) 2. 03:16 AM - Re: Harley-powered airliners..... (Elwood140@aol.com) 3. 06:30 AM - Re: This is a Surprise (Don Walker) 4. 07:24 AM - Re: This is a Surprise (JNBOLDING1) 5. 08:08 AM - Re: Experimenting with prop pitch..... (Grant Corriveau) 6. 08:08 AM - Re: Experimenting with prop pitch..... (Grant Corriveau) 7. 08:08 AM - Re: Experimenting with prop pitch..... (Grant Corriveau) 8. 08:16 AM - Re: brake pressures (Don Honabach) 9. 10:22 AM - Re: This is a Surprise (CLOJAN@aol.com) 10. 10:37 AM - Re: Experimenting with prop pitch..... (caspainhower@aep.com) 11. 11:14 AM - Re: This is a Surprise (Doug Mendonca) 12. 12:17 PM - Re: Experimenting with prop pitch..... (Weston, Jim) 13. 08:12 PM - Re: Experimenting with prop pitch..... (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: brake pressures From: "Mark Sandidge" 05/30/2003 02:43:47 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Sandidge" Regarding the thread on brake lines and pressures, before I ran my lines I requested info from Matco. The following is their response. " The cylinders are capable of pressures as high as 1500-2000 psi although a brake system rarely needs more than 500 psi. The paraflex tubing we sell has a working pressure of 450 psi and burst of 1800 psi. Something in that range should be plenty. The pressure with intensifiers is 56% higher but the high end operating range is still about 1500-2000 psi but with 500 psi being about what is typically needed. The intersifiers are most commonly used where pedal geometry is insufficient to produse 450 psi with a mild pedal force (of about 50 pounds). If the brake geometry mechanical advantage is 2.5 to 1 or greater, there should be no need for the intensifiers." This was the response from George Happ at Matco. Hope this helps Mark Sandidge E-mail Disclaimer ----- The information contained in this e-mail, and in any accompanying documents, may constitute confidential and/or legally privileged information. The information is intended only for use by the designated recipient. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for the delivery of the message to the intended recipient), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance on this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message from your system. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:06 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Harley-powered airliners..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com Yep, I can hear it now. A J3 that says 'potato, potato, potato' with an eagle on the back. Larry Wood Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:25 AM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: This is a Surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" HOAX! The picture of the redrive is a Stratus and will not fit their set up. Also the engine and mount looks a little silly. Don W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: This is a Surprise > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" > > Jeff: > > It all looks like a joke. If you look at it, there is a business address > and phone number. That may be bogus. I still think the folks at ZAC would > say something about this if it is for real. > > Take care, > > Scott Laughlin > www.cooknwithgas.com > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Jeff Small" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: This is a Surprise > Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:56:21 -0400 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" > > > >site advertising a company selling the Zodiac as a completed airplane to > the > >public. "Hog Air" with a Harley Davidson engine. > > >http://www.hog-air.com/ > > >Maybe they are jumping the gun a little on the sport aircraft market. > Will > >Zenair allow this? > > If you want a surprise you should bring up the site and see a picture of > your aircraft on it. Hog Air has no permission to use pictures of my a/c > and I have no affiliation with this company. > > I have asked that the picture be removed. As other pictures on the site are > "stolen" from ZAC, you might want to check for yours. > > As the info - "A Zenith XL HD" what is an XL HD, and other items such as > pictures of HDS wings, are inaccurate, perhaps this is a ruse. > > Regards Jeff > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:10 AM PST US From: "JNBOLDING1" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: This is a Surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JNBOLDING1" >HOAX! The picture of the redrive is a Stratus and will not fit their set >up. Also the engine and mount looks a little silly. Don W > > >> It all looks like a joke. If you look at it, there is a business address >> and phone number. That may be bogus. I still think the folks at ZAC >would >> say something about this if it is for real. >> >> ://www.hog-air.com/ >> >> >Maybe they are jumping the gun a little on the sport aircraft market. >> Will >> >Zenair allow this? >> >> If you want a surprise you should bring up the site and see a picture of >> your aircraft on it. Hog Air has no permission to use pictures of my a/c >> and I have no affiliation with this company. >> >> I have asked that the picture be removed. As other pictures on the site >are >> "stolen" from ZAC, you might want to check for yours. >> >> As the info - "A Zenith XL HD" what is an XL HD, and other items such as >> pictures of HDS wings, are inaccurate, perhaps this is a ruse. >> >> Regards Jeff >> If it is not a real deal I'm disappointed, can you imagine the raw emotion if one of the things flew over main street during Sturgis?? The sight of THOUSANDS of Hog drivers peeing down both legs makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up!! LOW&SLOW John ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau >> Please excuse me if this is totally ridiculous but, could your prop be on >> backwards? >> >> > > Good thought, but the thrust would be in the forward direction. (Reverse > thrust) > John W. Tarabocchia At first I thought this was 'tongue-in-cheek' but actually with the Warp Drive carbon fiber props (isn't that what you have?)... I suppose it is possible to install the blades in the wrong direction... highly unlikely but still something to check. i.e. the curved (upper) surfaces should be facing forward and the flat surfaces should be facing the pilot. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... > >> With the prop on backwards the thrust is still in the same direction but the >> prop is much less efficient. The analogy is a wing flying inverted. We used >> to install the prop backwards on u-control models to slow them down for new >> flyers. I have a 'left side goes down' (i.e. viewed from the pilot's seat) prop because my CAM100 spins opposite to other engines. I suppose it is possible with confusion between clockwise and counterclockwise propellors, for a propellor to be installed backwards and STILL run with the leading edges forward, if a 'normal' prop was installed on my engine... Anyways - if the leading edge is leading, and the curvy side is forwards, then this not the problem. ;-) Grant ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > Subject: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... > > Any more comments or ideas would be greatly appreciated. John, Good data -- thanks for sharing... how accurate is your asi? Do you have an exterior static port? Have you calibrated/checked the vsi? I did have a leak in my vsi glass/face at one point that was causing it to underread by about 300 fpm... Grant ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: brake pressures From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Thanks to everyone for your comments and help. I talked with Matco this morning and decided to go ahead and just use the Parker Paraflex tubing they typically provide. Since it has a greater working pressure of 450 versus the 300 that ZAC supplied it seems like a no brainer. Only issue is that the paraflex tubing is stiffer and may be harder to run, but everything is open right now so it's not a big deal. Might be different though if things were riveted. I'm also considering ordering their intensifier, but having mixed thoughts. Has any one done this and had good or bad results? Sometimes I think it would be easier to just install the Flinstone's system ;) Regards, Don -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sandidge [mailto:MSandidge@peabodyenergy.com] Subject: Zenith-List: brake pressures --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Sandidge" --> Regarding the thread on brake lines and pressures, before I ran my lines I requested info from Matco. The following is their response. " The cylinders are capable of pressures as high as 1500-2000 psi although a brake system rarely needs more than 500 psi. The paraflex tubing we sell has a working pressure of 450 psi and burst of 1800 psi. Something in that range should be plenty. The pressure with intensifiers is 56% higher but the high end operating range is still about 1500-2000 psi but with 500 psi being about what is typically needed. The intersifiers are most commonly used where pedal geometry is insufficient to produse 450 psi with a mild pedal force (of about 50 pounds). If the brake geometry mechanical advantage is 2.5 to 1 or greater, there should be no need for the intensifiers." This was the response from George Happ at Matco. Hope this helps Mark Sandidge E-mail Disclaimer ----- The information contained in this e-mail, and in any accompanying documents, may constitute confidential and/or legally privileged information. The information is intended only for use by the designated recipient. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for the delivery of the message to the intended recipient), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance on this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message from your system. direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:13 AM PST US From: CLOJAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: This is a Surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com In a message dated 5/29/03 5:56:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zodiacjeff@msn.com writes: > As the info - "A Zenith XL HD" what is an XL HD, In this case I think the HD stands for Harley davidson. If their harley engines virbrate anything like the ones I have riden, the Zenith airframe is not substantial enough to support it. jack ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... From: caspainhower@aep.com 05/30/2003 01:36:20 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com Does the Warp drive prop your using have the "constant speed platform" option. I'm wondering what the opinion is of using ground adjustable warp drive or Ivo props vs. using an in-flight electrically adjustable Ivo. I will be installing a lyc O-235 for xcountry flying and want max cruise and efficiency as well as climb and take-off performance. Is that asking too much? Craig S. 601 XL This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:20 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: This is a Surprise From: "Doug Mendonca" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Mendonca" Last year I corresponded with a guy in Sacramento, Ca. who was seriously considering going into manufacturing after the Light Sport Aircraft rules become law. He approached ZAC about it, who gently side-stepped the question and basically said, "the consensus standards aren't finalized yet, so at this point it's too early to comment on the feasibility of small scale manufacturing even if the current designs meet the consensus standard". That's quite a revelation - they didn't immediately slam the door on him, so it appears they are weighing their options. The way I see it, ZAC could manufacture themselves, license companies such as AMD (www.newplane.com), or continue to sell plans that could be built and sold in the new category if the "consensus standard" is met. Interesting times! -d. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Laughlin [mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: This is a Surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Jeff: It all looks like a joke. If you look at it, there is a business address and phone number. That may be bogus. I still think the folks at ZAC would say something about this if it is for real. Take care, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: This is a Surprise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" >site advertising a company selling the Zodiac as a completed airplane to the >public. "Hog Air" with a Harley Davidson engine. >http://www.hog-air.com/ >Maybe they are jumping the gun a little on the sport aircraft market. Will >Zenair allow this? If you want a surprise you should bring up the site and see a picture of your aircraft on it. Hog Air has no permission to use pictures of my a/c and I have no affiliation with this company. I have asked that the picture be removed. As other pictures on the site are "stolen" from ZAC, you might want to check for yours. As the info - "A Zenith XL HD" what is an XL HD, and other items such as pictures of HDS wings, are inaccurate, perhaps this is a ruse. Regards Jeff ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:03 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Ok, I've watched this thread for a while and I just can't help it, I've got to put my two cents into the subject. Actually, with a Warp Drive propeller and it's ability to spin the blades around their torsional axis by 360 degrees and then tighten them down where ever you like, you can set the blades to give either forward or reverse thrust. You can do this with either the leading edge or the trailing edge of the blade striking the air first. (i.e. you can set positive or negative pitch leading edge forward, or flip them around 180 degrees and set positive or negative pitch trailing edge forward.) There is only one of the four combinations that is efficient, per the blade design. My two cents worth. Anyone have change for a nickel? Jim Weston McDonough, Ga. -----Original Message----- From: Beckman, Rick [mailto:Rick.Beckman@atk.com] Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" > Please excuse me if this is totally ridiculous but, could your prop be on > backwards? > > Good thought, but the thrust would be in the forward direction. (Reverse thrust) Sorry to burst a bubble, but the thrust would be in the same direction. Think of the pitch as the compass line on a DG. If you have a line across 90 to 180, the reciprocal ( like turning the prop over) is still 180 to 90. Same line, same pitch. Rick XL ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:06 PM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Experimenting with prop pitch..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com In a message dated 5/30/2003 2:18:21 PM Central Daylight Time, Jim.Weston@delta.com writes: > > Ok, I've watched this thread for a while and I just can't help it, I've got > to put my two cents into the subject. > > Actually, with a Warp Drive propeller and it's ability to spin the blades > around their torsional axis by 360 degrees and then tighten them down where > ever you like, you can set the blades to give either forward or reverse thrust. > You can do this with either the leading edge or the trailing edge of the > blade striking the air first. (i.e. you can set positive or negative pitch > leading edge forward, or flip them around 180 degrees and set positive or > negative pitch trailing edge forward.) There is only one of the four combinations > that is efficient, per the blade design. > > Good comments to think about. There is a point to it, as made above. In prop talk, the FACE of the prop is the surface you should see from the tail of the airplane. The flat surface. It is the same case for tractor and pusher installations, and RH or LH engine rotation. Leading and trailing edges are different for RH or LH rotation. Inspection is the most frequent maintenance action, so we should be careful to know what we are inspecting for. Use the tech data, always. As noted above, blades can be set incorrectly in some prop set ups. And other props can be installed backwards. Be careful. Jerry Erickson 701SP