---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/17/03: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:54 AM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (Grant Corriveau) 2. 05:06 AM - Be carefull of the VIRUS (Norman Turner) 3. 05:16 AM - Re: Fuse block location in 601 (Michel Therrien) 4. 05:33 AM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (David & Maria Lumgair) 5. 06:04 AM - Re: oil canning skins (David Barth) 6. 08:41 AM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (Garrou, Douglas) 7. 09:36 AM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (dan john) 8. 09:54 AM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (Don Walker) 9. 12:14 PM - Re: Be carefull of the VIRUS (Gary Gower) 10. 12:28 PM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (Gary Gower) 11. 01:55 PM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (Weston, Jim) 12. 02:16 PM - Re: NACA vents () 13. 04:27 PM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (Philip Polstra) 14. 05:11 PM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (dan john) 15. 06:01 PM - Re: Looking for engine mount for a Corvair to 601 (nhulin) 16. 06:33 PM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (Larry McFarland) 17. 06:36 PM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world :( (Grant Corriveau) 18. 08:37 PM - Re: NACA vents (Greg Ferris) 19. 11:33 PM - EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( (Dr. Perry Morrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > From: "Philip Polstra" > I thank God that I was able to escape serious injury Glad you're still with us Phil! Job well done -- you walked away! ... or maybe even ran away? -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:58 AM PST US From: Norman Turner Subject: Zenith-List: Be carefull of the VIRUS --> Zenith-List message posted by: Norman Turner Hi, all on the site, Today I recived a message Which thanks to NORTON ANTI VIRUS rejected , which was addressed to my personal email ADD which was infected with a virus, So to all who send to me please make sure that you scan for viruses I do not need them, and I always scan when sending out to you. Many thanks in advance and I'm sure that it was just a mistake on the senders behalf . The message was somthing like ( like to meet you ), which I did not get the chance to read before Norton Anti Virus scraped. Cheers Norm. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:48 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuse block location in 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Hi Don, If you refer to this picture, http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp01487.jpg I'll say that you have a good eye! It took me a while to find what you mentioned on my picures. It is a U shaped plastic material that I bought in the flea markets at Oshkosh. Looking in my ElectroSonic catalog, this is called "Flexible Grommet Edging". See bottom left of this DigiKey catalog page: http://www.keyelco.com/kec/pdfs/p85.pdf It's been a while that you offered me "unlimited" space on your server. It was when I've been thown out of my ISP server because my web site was nearly three times the maximum space allowed on their server (it was then at 13MB). I told you that I think it might expand to 20MB after one year and 60MB at the end of the project... well, it's now taking over 150MB of space on your server. I wish I was as efficient at building my plane as I am in maintaining my web site content!! (don't mean exceeding weight by a factor of three, though) Have a nice day! Michel --- Don Honabach wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" > > > Michel, > > Thanks for the picture link (also weird to find what > I'm looking for on > our business server - just always forget to look at > what's in front of > me). > > I noticed in the pictures that you have on the > website that you used > some sort of plastic material to protect the wiring > that goes thru your > lightening holes. Do you recall where you got the > plastic lining > material? > > Thanks! > Don Honabach > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:55 AM PST US From: "David & Maria Lumgair" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" GOOD JOB PHILIP! I am sorry for your loss but glad you are AOK! While reading your post I could hear my instructor in the back of my mind - "FLY THE PLANE - FLY THE PLANE...." Thanks for posting your experience! Please keep us posted on the outcome. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Polstra" Subject: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > > As of about 9:20EDT this morning, there is one less Zodiac in the world. > > I was flying from Marietta to Thomson, GA. I made my initial call to unicom > at 15 miles and all was well. 8 miles out the rpm's started to drop and the > engine began running rough. Shortly after that it began to make a banging > noise and started shaking badly. 6 miles away the engine quit. The only > option was a semi-cleared, very rough and uneven field. Everything else was > thick trees. I set up in my pattern and realized it was a rough field, and > at 50' AGL I also saw there was a 20' drop near the end of my path. > > I was already talking to unicom so I let them know that I was having engine > trouble, when I new that I had an imianent failure, I squawked 7700 and > called 121.5. At first Augusta didn't understand my problem and was trying > to give me vectors to the airport that I could see. Someone else on the > frequency stated "he doesn't have an engine!" and then they seemed to > understand. I called flight service after I was down and gave my position > as best I could. I'd say it took them about 30 minutes to find me. > > The plane looks bad. Both wings are trash forward fuselage is destroyed, a > tow bar came loose and shot through the canopy. I was able to get out of > the plane in under 2 seconds despite my 4 quick release pins. My only > injuries are some scrapes and bruises, mostly from the shoulder harness. I > have to give it to Mr. Heintz that the plane did its job and crumpled, yet > the cockpit was 100% intact. I hit a 3" diameter tree head on with the > spinner. > > When the FAA inspector arrived 5.5 hours later he said there was no fuel in > the tank. I think the gacolator sheared off during the crash. I had at > least 10 gallons having flown the plane about an hour at economy cruise with > full fuel to start (16 gallon tank). The FAA said it sounded like some sort > of internal engine failure, and they want to know what I find after the > plane gets pulled out and I tear down the engine. The engine was a Stratus > EA-81. > > The plane had just gone through it's condition inspection and had 79.6 hours > on the hobbs. > > I thank God that I was able to escape serious injury, and also that my wife > finally nagged me into buying insurance on the plane. While I was waiting > for the FAA at the Georgia State Patrol, a Piper Navajo crashed just after > takeoff from August. I feel extra fortunate. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:18 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: oil canning skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > Before I chose the 601 I had taken a close look at > the RV series. I > > have a > > copy of the RV-6 construction manual. I don't have > it in front of me > > but > > remember reading that Van suggests heating the > skins with a heat gun > > prior > > to drilling. The resulting expansion and > contraction helps get rid of > > the > > oil canning. > > I thought all the Van's kits came with match drilled holes these days in which case it wouldn't make any difference if you did it with a lamp or a heat gun or in the sun or if you did it in a house or with a mouse or in the rain or on a train. Sorry Doctor Seusse just got the better of me. Do not archive David ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder Currently making parts. Stab, elevator and Rudder waiting for skins. Flaps and ailerons ready for inspection. __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:31 AM PST US From: "Garrou, Douglas" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" Good work on the engine-out landing. And now comes the head scratching. Out of curiosity -- and surveying just the people who post on this newslist -- how many partial or complete in-flight failures of the Stratus Subaru can we identify? Doug G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Polstra To: Zenith-List@Matronics. Com Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 9:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( As of about 9:20EDT this morning, there is one less Zodiac in the world. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:28 AM PST US From: dan john Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john Don,as the builder(75% done with 75% to go)of a Piel Emeraude,(the grandfather of the CAP 10)I would really like to have more info on the wing failuer of the Cap 10.I would pass the info on to other Piel design builders. Thanks, John ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:47 AM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:54:15 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" John, What I know at this point is that Tom had the wings rebuilt to correct for weaknesses after he bought the plane several years ago. He had been doing squared off loops in competition and pulling up to 6 Gs on a plane that may only be designed for 6 Gs. I have a friend who reports that Tom was abrupt on the controls, also. I never flew with him, so I don't know. The entire wing sheered off and came to rest with the wing and gear intact. We will know more as the investigation is completed, I am sure. Don do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: dan john To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john Don,as the builder(75% done with 75% to go)of a Piel Emeraude,(the grandfather of the CAP 10)I would really like to have more info on the wing failuer of the Cap 10.I would pass the info on to other Piel design builders. Thanks, John ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:02 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Be carefull of the VIRUS --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower some type of virus/mails are generated automaticaly, so the sender does not know its sending it, they remain in his computer until they make it fail. I always look at my mails before opening them. If they have an attachment and was not asked for, I just delete them before reading it or any farther action. Some attachements infect the computer just at the moment the mail is opened (if not stoped by a good WEB type antivirus). Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. --- Norman Turner wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Norman Turner > > > Hi, all on the site, > Today I recived a message Which thanks to NORTON ANTI VIRUS rejected > , which was addressed to my personal email ADD which was infected > with a virus, So to all who send to me please make sure that you scan > for viruses I do not need them, and I always scan when sending out to > you. Many thanks in advance and I'm sure that it was just a mistake > on the senders behalf . The message was somthing like ( like to meet > you ), which I did not get the chance to read before Norton Anti > Virus scraped. Cheers Norm. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:03 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower I know that all of us (at least in this list) are very carefull with our building and mantainance... thanks to all the help (advise) we find here. I have a big concern about so many engine failures in the Suby, mostly in the valves. Is it only in the Stratus conversion? Or is happening also in other Subaru conversions? We are going to build a 601 XL when we finish the 701, we are think the Jabiru 6 cylinder will make a better option... Saludos Gary Gower --- "Garrou, Douglas" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" > > > Good work on the engine-out landing. And now comes the head > scratching. > Out of curiosity -- and surveying just the people who post on this > newslist > -- how many partial or complete in-flight failures of the Stratus > Subaru can > we identify? > > Doug G. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Philip Polstra > To: Zenith-List@Matronics. Com > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 9:39 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( > > As of about 9:20EDT this morning, there is one less Zodiac in the > world. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:06 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Philip, I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to your plane. But I sure am happy to hear that you weren't hurt too badly. From your description, I agree with the note below, check the valve guides. I was one of the early failures in this area. When mine started to go I got the same banging sound (sounds like a seatbelt hitting the side of the airplane, blowing in the wind). Later the intake valve actually stuck open for a period of time, causing a lose of over half of the engine power, since the intake port is shared between cylinders. i.e. there was interaction that caused the adjoining cylinder to stop feeding fuel and air correctly. Now have the new guides, run the engine cooler, and run it at lower RPM. No problems in another 150 hours. Once again, I'm sure glad that your o.k. Jim Weston McDonough, Ga. -----Original Message----- From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Philip, Congratulations on a safe landing. My friend Tom wasn't as fortunate last Saturday. His wing came off his Cap 10, a French aerobatic plane, while coming out of a loop in a demonstration for the Young Eagles. Philip, there could have been several things happened to the Stratus. A place to start looking may be at the valve guide failures. A piece of the guide can break off, striking the plug and closing the gap. This leaves the engine shaking very badly. Check your plugs first to see. Banging could be caused by pieces imbedded in the piston head and hitting the cylinder head. These things have happened to me on my Stratus EA-81, but I was able to limp to an airport 7 miles away. If it was a guide, this will be the 6th or 7th one reported. I am just thankful you weren't hurt. Don Walker, HDS Subaru ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Polstra To: Zenith-List@Matronics. Com Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 9:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" As of about 9:20EDT this morning, there is one less Zodiac in the world. I was flying from Marietta to Thomson, GA. I made my initial call to unicom at 15 miles and all was well. 8 miles out the rpm's started to drop and the engine began running rough. Shortly after that it began to make a banging noise and started shaking badly. 6 miles away the engine quit. The only option was a semi-cleared, very rough and uneven field. Everything else was thick trees. I set up in my pattern and realized it was a rough field, and at 50' AGL I also saw there was a 20' drop near the end of my path. I was already talking to unicom so I let them know that I was having engine trouble, when I new that I had an imianent failure, I squawked 7700 and called 121.5. At first Augusta didn't understand my problem and was trying to give me vectors to the airport that I could see. Someone else on the frequency stated "he doesn't have an engine!" and then they seemed to understand. I called flight service after I was down and gave my position as best I could. I'd say it took them about 30 minutes to find me. The plane looks bad. Both wings are trash forward fuselage is destroyed, a tow bar came loose and shot through the canopy. I was able to get out of the plane in under 2 seconds despite my 4 quick release pins. My only injuries are some scrapes and bruises, mostly from the shoulder harness. I have to give it to Mr. Heintz that the plane did its job and crumpled, yet the cockpit was 100% intact. I hit a 3" diameter tree head on with the spinner. When the FAA inspector arrived 5.5 hours later he said there was no fuel in the tank. I think the gacolator sheared off during the crash. I had at least 10 gallons having flown the plane about an hour at economy cruise with full fuel to start (16 gallon tank). The FAA said it sounded like some sort of internal engine failure, and they want to know what I find after the plane gets pulled out and I tear down the engine. The engine was a Stratus EA-81. The plane had just gone through it's condition inspection and had 79.6 hours on the hobbs. I thank God that I was able to escape serious injury, and also that my wife finally nagged me into buying insurance on the plane. While I was waiting for the FAA at the Georgia State Patrol, a Piper Navajo crashed just after takeoff from August. I feel extra fortunate. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:24 PM PST US From: "" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: NACA vents --> Zenith-List message posted by: "" Greg, What about the noise? Rich Quoting Greg Ferris : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" > > I bought NACA vents from Vans; they have a kit that includes the scoop, > tubing and vent. I put mine a couple of inches behind the firewall and get > a lot of airflow. They need to be in front of the wing. > > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: NACA vents > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "" > > > > Anyone flying with the Zenith plans NACA vents? I wanted to know how much > wind > > noise they made. I planned on cutting the NACA vent in the side skin on > the > > sides of the pilot & co-pilot's legs, making the vent box & just putting > the > > eyeball vent on the front of the box, eliminating the vent hoses. > Incorporating > > a flush style door to close the NACA cutout if needed. > > Thanks > > Rich > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:30 PM PST US From: "Philip Polstra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau >> From: "Philip Polstra" >> I thank God that I was able to escape serious injury >Glad you're still with us Phil! Job well done -- you walked away! ... or >maybe even ran away? It wasn't a run, more of a fast walk. OK, maybe I ran away screaming like a little girl, but without the screaming. I got a good 20' away from the plane before turning around to survey the damage. It isn't that I thought it would burn, but I new it was a possibility. There was definitely a smell of fuel. When the EMT arrived about an hour later my blood pressure was still 130/90. The adrenaline didn't help with my general feeling of dehydration. The news guy from channel 26 seemed really interested in talking to me. I guess to the average non-aviator, the idea of someone walking away from a crash is unbelievable. He asked me if this would detour me from flying. I told him this is a situation every student pilot trains for. I need to get back in the air. Interestingly enough, the day before my flakey plane owner took all three of his planes (including two CH2000's) and went home because he wouldn't sign a contract. Now I have nothing to fly. :( :( I'm hoping to solve that problem soon. I'll keep you all informed about what happens. My PPO doctor won't see me till Thursday. The insurance company is supposed to pull the plane out tomorrow. I made a statement to the insurance company today. Hopefully, they won't try the standard insurance company MO of delay and deny. Should add some perspective when I practice engine out landings with students. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:15 PM PST US From: dan john Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john Thanks Don,I`ll forward that info on to the Piel bunch.Makes one wonder about modifying airframs doesnt it. John ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:23 PM PST US From: "nhulin" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Looking for engine mount for a Corvair to 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" Robert, William Wynne is currently working on the 601XL mount but the prototype hasn't been completed yet. I've spoken to Nick @ ZAC and he has recommended that you use the bush and washer arrangement used on the 801 mount or the 601/O-235 mount to attach to the firewall rather than the 1/8 plate used on the Jabiru and Rotax mounts due to the extra weight of the Corvair. This method will use AN8 bolts which will be larger than those specified for the other mounts. You will need to modify your firewall points accordingly. The engine mount chapters in William's conversion manual are very detailed and well worth the money just for the basic design and construction information. You can buy some of the Corvair specific mounting hardware from him to save some time, or make it yourself from the diagrams in his manual. Using the information in William's manual you should be able to fabricate and load test a suitable mount. I don't know which diagrams are applicable to the HDS. Nick sent me 6-JE-1, 6-YE-1, and 6-YE-2 for the XL from which I was able to get the datum information required to build the mount. You may need to contact ZAC to get additional diagrams if you can't work out the datum information from what you have. BTW: At around 220+ pounds isn't a Corvair a bit heavy for a HDS? ...neil Neil Hulin 601XL/Corvair Cincinnati, OH. On Mon Jun 16 - 5:42 AM , Robert Rehmel (traveler601@earthlink.net) wrote: > Does anyone have drawings for an engine for a Corvair mounted on a 601? ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:39 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > > As of about 9:20EDT this morning, there is one less Zodiac in the world. > > > The plane looks bad. Both wings are trash forward fuselage is destroyed, a > tow bar came loose and shot through the canopy. I was able to get out of > the plane in under 2 seconds despite my 4 quick release pins. My only > injuries are some scrapes and bruises, mostly from the shoulder harness. I > have to give it to Mr. Heintz that the plane did its job and crumpled, yet > the cockpit was 100% intact. I hit a 3" diameter tree head on with the > spinner. > The engine was a Stratus > EA-81. > > The plane had just gone through it's condition inspection and had 79.6 hours > on the hobbs. > > I thank God that I was able to escape serious injury, and also that my wife > finally nagged me into buying insurance on the plane. While I was waiting > for the FAA at the Georgia State Patrol, a Piper Navajo crashed just after > takeoff from August. I feel extra fortunate. > Philip, You did everything right and I'm very pleased you were able to step away from this one intact. Do keep us informed to what you find on the engine. Larry McFarland - 601 with EA81 too. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > I got a good 20' away from the > plane before turning around to survey the damage. It isn't that I thought > it would burn, but I new it was a possibility. There was definitely a smell > of fuel. Maybe the sheared fuel sump and instant fuel 'dump' was a good thing. Maybe we should consider incorporating an instant fuel dump valve for just such a moment.... I'm just funning around -- glad to see you still have your sense of humour intact! Thanks for the postings. -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:21 PM PST US From: "Greg Ferris" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: NACA vents --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" I don't think the vents are a significant source of noise. I'd say that the cabin noise level is between a Cessna 150 and a Piper Cherokee. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: NACA vents > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "" > > Greg, What about the noise? > > Rich > > > Quoting Greg Ferris : > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" > > > > I bought NACA vents from Vans; they have a kit that includes the scoop, > > tubing and vent. I put mine a couple of inches behind the firewall and get > > a lot of airflow. They need to be in front of the wing. > > > > Greg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: Zenith-List: NACA vents > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "" > > > > > > Anyone flying with the Zenith plans NACA vents? I wanted to know how much > > wind > > > noise they made. I planned on cutting the NACA vent in the side skin on > > the > > > sides of the pilot & co-pilot's legs, making the vent box & just putting > > the > > > eyeball vent on the front of the box, eliminating the vent hoses. > > Incorporating > > > a flush style door to close the NACA cutout if needed. > > > Thanks > > > Rich ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:54 PM PST US From: "Dr. Perry Morrison" Subject: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" It's interesting to note some of the problems with the EA81 in 601s (assuming that the recent crash stems from something about the engine itself and not just the fuel and immumerable other problems that all engines have). A simple google search shows the following page which appears to empirically demonstrate 75-80hp from an EA81 with a cam reprofile, port polish, head shave and work on the manifolds and exhaust. Not a lot of work or modification at all. The question is, why are such minimally modified EA81s so rock solid in gyros and other applications. Does the stratus mod to get more power diminish reliability that much? http://bakker.home.cern.ch/bakker/EA81DD.htm Perry Morrison "Garrou, Douglas" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" Good work on the engine-out landing. And now comes the head scratching. Out of curiosity -- and surveying just the people who post on this newslist -- how many partial or complete in-flight failures of the Stratus Subaru can we identify? Doug G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Polstra Subject: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( As of about 9:20EDT this morning, there is one less Zodiac in the world. __________________________ Dr. Perry Morrison Morrison Associates Pty Ltd +61 08 89 88 4617 0408892638 perrymorrison@yahoo.com __________________________