---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/18/03: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:31 AM - Re: BULLETIN: SCHNEIDER CUP UPDATE (Chip W Erwin) 2. 05:38 AM - Electronic gyro article (Grant Corriveau) 3. 05:56 AM - Re: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( (Weston, Jim) 4. 07:21 AM - Re: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( (Don Walker) 5. 08:07 AM - Re: BULLETIN: SCHNEIDER CUP UPDATE (Pinneo, George) 6. 08:41 AM - Re: One less Zodiac in the world (Paul Hartl) 7. 09:23 AM - Re: BULLETIN: SCHNEIDER CUP UPDATE (Gary Gower) 8. 09:38 AM - Re: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( (Gary Gower) 9. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: One less Zodiac in the world (Don Honabach) 10. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: One less Zodiac in the world (Don Walker) 11. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: Looking for engine mount for a Corvair to 601 (Brian Caithcart) 12. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: One less Zodiac in the world (Don Honabach) 13. 03:39 PM - Re: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( (Philip Polstra) 14. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: One less Zodiac in the world (Don Walker) 15. 04:42 PM - Re: valve guides (Don Walker) 16. 05:25 PM - Re: Inquiry (Pwalsh4539@aol.com) 17. 05:32 PM - Lightening Holes (David Witt) 18. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: valve guides (Gary Gower) 19. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: One less Zodiac in the world (Bill Morelli) 20. 06:23 PM - Re: Lightening Holes (Brian Walker) 21. 06:37 PM - Re: Re: One less Zodiac in the world (John Karnes) 22. 07:56 PM - Valve guides (Ramperf@aol.com) 23. 08:27 PM - Re: Lightening Holes (Scott Laughlin) 24. 08:28 PM - 801 site updated (Rich) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:55 AM PST US From: "Chip W Erwin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: BULLETIN: SCHNEIDER CUP UPDATE --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W Erwin" The Piccola Schneider Cup races were concluded last Sunday and I managed to win with the Zenair CH601XL. In addition, I have won a 2nd trophy for the fastest uncompensated time. This makes the 3rd win for the Zenair CH601. I will be posting some photos on our web site very soon. The flight back to the Czech Republic was over the Brenner Pass this time at 8,500 feet. Cheers, CHIP Chip W. Erwin CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS, S.R.O. Manufacturer of Sport Aircraft & Aircraft Floats Lucn 1824, 686 02 Star Mesto, Czech Republic Tel: +420 572 543 456 Fax: +420 572 543 692 USA Fax: (772) 264 0936 Mobile Tel: (420) 602 342 717 E-mail: aircraft@czaw.cz www.airplane.cz --- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Electronic gyro article From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau http://www.xbow.com/General_info/gyro_guide.htm This is an interesting article explaining the basics of gyros and the new solid state 'stuff' available ... hmmmm -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Personally, I think that if a study were done we would find that most of the failures have been with engines that were put together when Reiner owned the company. Phillip....Wasn't your engine purchased before Mykal bought the company, as mine was? I have long suspicioned that the engine shop that Reiner was using did a very bad job in the quality department. They have been known to put knurled valve guides in the heads, loose valve guides, (I had the valve guide shift and breakup problem) and when I rebuilt my engine due to a stripped out crankcase bolt I found several crankcase bolts way over torqued. This destroyed the threads and allowed the crankshaft to flop around and hammer the main bearings to the point that they were flaking apart. Thank the lord that I found the damaged crankcase threads when I did, due to a minor oil leak around the bolt. I rebuilt the engine, installing new bearings and torqueing everything as the book called for. Oh yes, I have new heads from Mykal with the retainer clips on the valve guides. Knock on wood, mine has now been humming along for 3 years since the rebuild. I still think that these are good engines, but they do need to be built to the proper quality and tolerances, just as would be done for any aircraft engine. I also think that they are sensitive to proper cooling. The installation that was worked up by Zenith for this engine is marginal in warm to hot weather. I have wrapped the header stacks and muffler with high temp exhaust wrap, sealed all around the radiator, retarded the ignition timing, and I run the engine below 5000 rpm for cruise. I have noticed that something happens to these engines at 5000 and above, the temp starts to slowly rise and it becomes much harder to maintain proper cooling. I don't know if there is something that happens with friction, or more likely exhaust scavenging. But 5000 rpm seems to be a critical point. Well, I just noticed that I must have been in a mood to ramble on this morning. Sorry for the long note. I'll relinquish the soapbox now. Jim Weston McDonough, Ga. -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Perry Morrison [mailto:perrymorrison@yahoo.com] Subject: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" It's interesting to note some of the problems with the EA81 in 601s (assuming that the recent crash stems from something about the engine itself and not just the fuel and immumerable other problems that all engines have). A simple google search shows the following page which appears to empirically demonstrate 75-80hp from an EA81 with a cam reprofile, port polish, head shave and work on the manifolds and exhaust. Not a lot of work or modification at all. The question is, why are such minimally modified EA81s so rock solid in gyros and other applications. Does the stratus mod to get more power diminish reliability that much? http://bakker.home.cern.ch/bakker/EA81DD.htm Perry Morrison ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:23 AM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:20:26 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Perry, The differences here would be in the exhaust system and in the reduction unit, both of which will affect power. It is conceivable that the exhaust system could be causing some of the problems, but I don't think that is it. the conversion simply from direct drive to the reduction unit adds considerable power and, of course, increases the rpm. As you say, they are rock solid on gyros even with the reduction unit, so that is probably not the culprit. And cooling is not a problem on the gyros, either. My friend runs his wide open, dogs the hell out of it and never has had problems with cooling or engine. the engine does seem bullet proof on the gyro. I think Jim has seen the picture. The failures all seem to have to do with heat along side valve guides. And so far as I know they are all Reiner's with the exception of the failure of Frank's bronze rebuild by Mykal. Mykal sent me a rebuild that also failed. It had a knurled guide. When I talked with him, he didn't seem to perceive that as a problem, but I think he is learning. I am skeptical of the validity of the link you provided. It is my understanding that the stock horsepower of the EA-81 in the car is 78 h.p. I am running a stock E.A 81 now with only one of the modifications you listed (no shaved heads) and am climbing out at 1200 fpm with a light bird. My Stratus lifted me at the rate of 1700 fpm on a good day, and I expect to do that again after having the heads redone and switching back. On gyros it seems difficult to get the temp up to 200 degrees. Cooling is key in these Zenith applications, and I still haven't got my cooling like I want it in the summer. don walker, HDS ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Perry Morrison To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 1:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" It's interesting to note some of the problems with the EA81 in 601s (assuming that the recent crash stems from something about the engine itself and not just the fuel and immumerable other problems that all engines have). A simple google search shows the following page which appears to empirically demonstrate 75-80hp from an EA81 with a cam reprofile, port polish, head shave and work on the manifolds and exhaust. Not a lot of work or modification at all. The question is, why are such minimally modified EA81s so rock solid in gyros and other applications. Does the stratus mod to get more power diminish reliability that much? http://bakker.home.cern.ch/bakker/EA81DD.htm Perry Morrison "Garrou, Douglas" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" Good work on the engine-out landing. And now comes the head scratching. Out of curiosity -- and surveying just the people who post on this newslist -- how many partial or complete in-flight failures of the Stratus Subaru can we identify? Doug G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Polstra To: Zenith-List@Matronics. Com Subject: Zenith-List: One less Zodiac in the world :( As of about 9:20EDT this morning, there is one less Zodiac in the world. __________________________ Dr. Perry Morrison Morrison Associates Pty Ltd +61 08 89 88 4617 0408892638 perrymorrison@yahoo.com __________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: BULLETIN: SCHNEIDER CUP UPDATE From: "Pinneo, George" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pinneo, George" Congratulations! Do not archive GGP ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:23 AM PST US From: "Paul Hartl" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" Philip, I'm so sorry to hear of your misfortune, but very relieved that you were able to walk away. Congratulations on keeping your cool and making the best of a tough situation. You've been a great contributor to this list and, as one who is still building, I have greatly appreciated your staying with the list to report your flying experiences back to the rest of us. I hope your insurance settlement works out well and that you have an airplane again soon. As an owner of a Stratus Sub EA-81 (still in the crate, but soon to be installed) I am very concerned with its record. By my count, this makes for at least 4, maybe 5 Zodiacs alone reported on this list that have had to make emergency landings due to a Stratus Sub EA-81 in-flight malfunction. How many other Stratus Subs in other aircraft have had similar problems? Obviously there are a lot of the Stratus EA-81s out there, and they have done well for many people, but this record seems to be indicating that it may well be something of a time bomb, and I think it is time to get organized in addressing its problems. (For my part, I plan to send my heads to Ram-Subaru in Ohio for valve guide work before installation) If it doesn't already exist, it would be very helpful to have a website that lists all identified Stratus EA-81 problems, with links to fixes, if possible. Some have already done some of this work - and there may be more out there that I am not aware of. Bill Morelli has done a great job of identifying and photographing problems he has had with his Stratus EA-81 at his website, http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ , which include alternator bracket failures and engine mount failures. Don Walker and Jim Weston have reported back to the list about their experiences with valve guide failures, and John Karnes reported on an in-flight power loss due to coolant loss from a failed coolant pipe weld (??). There was also a crash in Oklahoma last winter of Stratus-powered Zodiac that totalled the aircraft, but the pilot was not on the list, if I remember correctly. Are there more? If there isn't already a website, I would be happy to set one up and post links to solutions. If the problems are limited to a few areas and are fixable, it may well be that the Stratus EA-81 can be made into a good and reliable engine and those of us who have them can fly with confidence, but at the moment, I'm very, very worried. Paul Hartl Paul Hartl, 601HDS Stratus Subaru Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage under construction FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/ email: pdhartl@mindspring.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org Sun Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:02 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: BULLETIN: SCHNEIDER CUP UPDATE --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Congrtulations one more time Chip. We appreciate very much the good news, and will be specting to see some photos posted soon, ...and some guys say the Zodiacs are not fast planes :-) Saludos Gary Gower Do not Archive. --- Chip W Erwin wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W Erwin" > > The Piccola Schneider Cup races were concluded last Sunday and I > managed > to win with the Zenair CH601XL. In addition, I have won a 2nd trophy > for > the fastest uncompensated time. > > This makes the 3rd win for the Zenair CH601. > > I will be posting some photos on our web site very soon. > > The flight back to the Czech Republic was over the Brenner Pass this > time at 8,500 feet. > > Cheers, > CHIP > > > Chip W. Erwin > CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS, S.R.O. > Manufacturer of Sport Aircraft & Aircraft Floats > Lucn 1824, 686 02 Star Mesto, Czech Republic > Tel: +420 572 543 456 Fax: +420 572 543 692 > USA Fax: (772) 264 0936 > Mobile Tel: (420) 602 342 717 > E-mail: aircraft@czaw.cz www.airplane.cz > > > --- > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:01 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Jim, Your post is great, is thuth that good quality in building the engine is critical, hope all the pilots with pre-Mykal era engines could get in touch with him for instructions in what to check out or look for, if they were assembled inside tolerances, only labor and maybe bearings and gaskets are lost. If not the plane and more important pilot and passengers life is in danger, these are expensive. I am satisfied with your explanantion. Saludos Gary Gower --- "Weston, Jim" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" > > > Personally, I think that if a study were done we would find that most > of the failures have been with engines that were put together when > Reiner owned the company. Phillip....Wasn't your engine purchased > before Mykal bought the company, as mine was? I have long > suspicioned that the engine shop that Reiner was using did a very bad > job in the quality department. They have been known to put knurled > valve guides in the heads, loose valve guides, (I had the valve guide > shift and breakup problem) and when I rebuilt my engine due to a > stripped out crankcase bolt I found several crankcase bolts way over > torqued. This destroyed the threads and allowed the crankshaft to > flop around and hammer the main bearings to the point that they were > flaking apart. Thank the lord that I found the damaged crankcase > threads when I did, due to a minor oil leak around the bolt. I > rebuilt the engine, installing new bearings and torqueing everything > as the book called for. Oh yes, I have new heads! > from Mykal with the retainer clips on the valve guides. Knock on > wood, mine has now been humming along for 3 years since the rebuild. > I still think that these are good engines, but they do need to be > built to the proper quality and tolerances, just as would be done for > any aircraft engine. I also think that they are sensitive to proper > cooling. The installation that was worked up by Zenith for this > engine is marginal in warm to hot weather. I have wrapped the header > stacks and muffler with high temp exhaust wrap, sealed all around the > radiator, retarded the ignition timing, and I run the engine below > 5000 rpm for cruise. I have noticed that something happens to these > engines at 5000 and above, the temp starts to slowly rise and it > becomes much harder to maintain proper cooling. I don't know if > there is something that happens with friction, or more likely exhaust > scavenging. But 5000 rpm seems to be a critical point. > > Well, I just noticed that I must have been in a mood to ramble on > this morning. Sorry for the long note. I'll relinquish the soapbox > now. > > Jim Weston > McDonough, Ga. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dr. Perry Morrison [mailto:perrymorrison@yahoo.com] > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the > world > :( > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" > > > It's interesting to note some of the problems with the EA81 in 601s > (assuming > that the recent crash stems from something about the engine itself > and not just > the fuel and immumerable other problems that all engines have). > > A simple google search shows the following page which appears to > empirically demonstrate 75-80hp from an EA81 with a cam reprofile, > port > polish, head shave and work on the manifolds and exhaust. Not a lot > of > work or modification at all. > > The question is, why are such minimally modified EA81s so rock solid > in gyros > and other applications. Does the stratus mod to get more power > diminish > reliability that much? > > http://bakker.home.cern.ch/bakker/EA81DD.htm > > > Perry Morrison > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Since the majority of issues for the EA81 appear to be valve related, is there a way to do a proper inspection of the valve guides (or ?) every 5/10 hours? Also, since the problem appears to be heat related (or at least that is where the finger is pointing at the moment), it would seem prudent to make sure your water and oil sensors are reading true. I can see where a bad or mis-calibrated sensor is giving the pilot the indication where they don't believe the engine is being abused, yet is being totally hammered. Maybe even 2 sensors for the water temp would be in order. I've also considered sending my valves to RAM to be re-done by their method, but do we really know if there method is any better. I've been thinking about asking for client list and calling them. RAM mentions that they do XYZ which should be better, but how do we really know? Are we basically buying a snake-oil fix out of an unjustified fear? Ultimately, I think that as consumers we need to start demanding that the companies that sell the mod'd engines have a public method of reporting issues that is accessible by all - something like a list server for their engines would be great and a documented procedure for dealing with reported issues should also be in place by the manufacturer. I would encourage anyone getting ready to purchase an engine ask/demand that there is something in place as a condition of sale for any engine. Regards, Don Honabach -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartl [mailto:pdhartl@mindspring.com] Subject: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" Philip, I'm so sorry to hear of your misfortune, but very relieved that you were able to walk away. Congratulations on keeping your cool and making the best of a tough situation. You've been a great contributor to this list and, as one who is still building, I have greatly appreciated your staying with the list to report your flying experiences back to the rest of us. I hope your insurance settlement works out well and that you have an airplane again soon. As an owner of a Stratus Sub EA-81 (still in the crate, but soon to be installed) I am very concerned with its record. By my count, this makes for at least 4, maybe 5 Zodiacs alone reported on this list that have had to make emergency landings due to a Stratus Sub EA-81 in-flight malfunction. How many other Stratus Subs in other aircraft have had similar problems? Obviously there are a lot of the Stratus EA-81s out there, and they have done well for many people, but this record seems to be indicating that it may well be something of a time bomb, and I think it is time to get organized in addressing its problems. (For my part, I plan to send my heads to Ram-Subaru in Ohio for valve guide work before installation) If it doesn't already exist, it would be very helpful to have a website that lists all identified Stratus EA-81 problems, with links to fixes, if possible. Some have already done some of this work - and there may be more out there that I am not aware of. Bill Morelli has done a great job of identifying and photographing problems he has had with his Stratus EA-81 at his website, http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ , which include alternator bracket failures and engine mount failures. Don Walker and Jim Weston have reported back to the list about their experiences with valve guide failures, and John Karnes reported on an in-flight power loss due to coolant loss from a failed coolant pipe weld (??). There was also a crash in Oklahoma last winter of Stratus-powered Zodiac that totalled the aircraft, but the pilot was not on the list, if I remember correctly. Are there more? If there isn't already a website, I would be happy to set one up and post links to solutions. If the problems are limited to a few areas and are fixable, it may well be that the Stratus EA-81 can be made into a good and reliable engine and those of us who have them can fly with confidence, but at the moment, I'm very, very worried. Paul Hartl Paul Hartl, 601HDS Stratus Subaru Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage under construction FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/ email: pdhartl@mindspring.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org Sun Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:39 AM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:42:21 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Don, If you have a conversation with Mykal at Stratus and have a conversation with Ron at Ram, and if you know anything about this, then you will see the difference in their level of understanding of the engines. Ram will use guides WITH SHOULDERS, which can not go through into the cylinders. Ram also seems to be much more sensitive to the tolerances of the guide and of the valves. Frank Hinde has Ram's work flying now on his HDS. Let's see how his come out. He should have about ten or more hours on them by now. It appears to me that both Reiner and Mykal had been knurling guides, even on Mykals new bronze fix, rather than using oversize guides with the Heat/freeze and press method which would insure a reliable fit. Mykal seems willing to do what works, but to me seems slow on the uptake about what that is. don walker ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Honabach To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:56 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Since the majority of issues for the EA81 appear to be valve related, is there a way to do a proper inspection of the valve guides (or ?) every 5/10 hours? Also, since the problem appears to be heat related (or at least that is where the finger is pointing at the moment), it would seem prudent to make sure your water and oil sensors are reading true. I can see where a bad or mis-calibrated sensor is giving the pilot the indication where they don't believe the engine is being abused, yet is being totally hammered. Maybe even 2 sensors for the water temp would be in order. I've also considered sending my valves to RAM to be re-done by their method, but do we really know if there method is any better. I've been thinking about asking for client list and calling them. RAM mentions that they do XYZ which should be better, but how do we really know? Are we basically buying a snake-oil fix out of an unjustified fear? Ultimately, I think that as consumers we need to start demanding that the companies that sell the mod'd engines have a public method of reporting issues that is accessible by all - something like a list server for their engines would be great and a documented procedure for dealing with reported issues should also be in place by the manufacturer. I would encourage anyone getting ready to purchase an engine ask/demand that there is something in place as a condition of sale for any engine. Regards, Don Honabach -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartl [mailto:pdhartl@mindspring.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" Philip, I'm so sorry to hear of your misfortune, but very relieved that you were able to walk away. Congratulations on keeping your cool and making the best of a tough situation. You've been a great contributor to this list and, as one who is still building, I have greatly appreciated your staying with the list to report your flying experiences back to the rest of us. I hope your insurance settlement works out well and that you have an airplane again soon. As an owner of a Stratus Sub EA-81 (still in the crate, but soon to be installed) I am very concerned with its record. By my count, this makes for at least 4, maybe 5 Zodiacs alone reported on this list that have had to make emergency landings due to a Stratus Sub EA-81 in-flight malfunction. How many other Stratus Subs in other aircraft have had similar problems? Obviously there are a lot of the Stratus EA-81s out there, and they have done well for many people, but this record seems to be indicating that it may well be something of a time bomb, and I think it is time to get organized in addressing its problems. (For my part, I plan to send my heads to Ram-Subaru in Ohio for valve guide work before installation) If it doesn't already exist, it would be very helpful to have a website that lists all identified Stratus EA-81 problems, with links to fixes, if possible. Some have already done some of this work - and there may be more out there that I am not aware of. Bill Morelli has done a great job of identifying and photographing problems he has had with his Stratus EA-81 at his website, http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ , which include alternator bracket failures and engine mount failures. Don Walker and Jim Weston have reported back to the list about their experiences with valve guide failures, and John Karnes reported on an in-flight power loss due to coolant loss from a failed coolant pipe weld (??). There was also a crash in Oklahoma last winter of Stratus-powered Zodiac that totalled the aircraft, but the pilot was not on the list, if I remember correctly. Are there more? If there isn't already a website, I would be happy to set one up and post links to solutions. If the problems are limited to a few areas and are fixable, it may well be that the Stratus EA-81 can be made into a good and reliable engine and those of us who have them can fly with confidence, but at the moment, I'm very, very worried. Paul Hartl Paul Hartl, 601HDS Stratus Subaru Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage under construction FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/ email: pdhartl@mindspring.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org Sun Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:33 PM PST US From: "Brian Caithcart" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Looking for engine mount for a Corvair to 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Caithcart" Neil, Please keep us up to date on your FWF progress. FYI: The maximum allowable FWF weight for the 601 HD/HDS is 265 lbs. Corvair will be OK. Brian Caithcart Saskatoon, Sask. CH601HD/corvair >>BTW: At around 220+ pounds isn't a Corvair a bit heavy for a HDS? > >...neil >Neil Hulin >601XL/Corvair >Cincinnati, OH. > >On Mon Jun 16 - 5:42 AM , Robert Rehmel (traveler601@earthlink.net) wrote: > > > Does anyone have drawings for an engine for a Corvair mounted on a 601? > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:10 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Don, >>> It appears to me that both Reiner and Mykal had been knurling guides, even on Mykals new bronze fix What does it mean to knurl a guide? Is this just a way of seating the valve guides? Also, what is the bronze fix? Sorry for the all basic questions - just trying to understand and learn. Thanks! Don -----Original Message----- From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Don, If you have a conversation with Mykal at Stratus and have a conversation with Ron at Ram, and if you know anything about this, then you will see the difference in their level of understanding of the engines. Ram will use guides WITH SHOULDERS, which can not go through into the cylinders. Ram also seems to be much more sensitive to the tolerances of the guide and of the valves. Frank Hinde has Ram's work flying now on his HDS. Let's see how his come out. He should have about ten or more hours on them by now. It appears to me that both Reiner and Mykal had been knurling guides, even on Mykals new bronze fix, rather than using oversize guides with the Heat/freeze and press method which would insure a reliable fit. Mykal seems willing to do what works, but to me seems slow on the uptake about what that is. don walker ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Honabach To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:56 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Since the majority of issues for the EA81 appear to be valve related, is there a way to do a proper inspection of the valve guides (or ?) every 5/10 hours? Also, since the problem appears to be heat related (or at least that is where the finger is pointing at the moment), it would seem prudent to make sure your water and oil sensors are reading true. I can see where a bad or mis-calibrated sensor is giving the pilot the indication where they don't believe the engine is being abused, yet is being totally hammered. Maybe even 2 sensors for the water temp would be in order. I've also considered sending my valves to RAM to be re-done by their method, but do we really know if there method is any better. I've been thinking about asking for client list and calling them. RAM mentions that they do XYZ which should be better, but how do we really know? Are we basically buying a snake-oil fix out of an unjustified fear? Ultimately, I think that as consumers we need to start demanding that the companies that sell the mod'd engines have a public method of reporting issues that is accessible by all - something like a list server for their engines would be great and a documented procedure for dealing with reported issues should also be in place by the manufacturer. I would encourage anyone getting ready to purchase an engine ask/demand that there is something in place as a condition of sale for any engine. Regards, Don Honabach -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartl [mailto:pdhartl@mindspring.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" Philip, I'm so sorry to hear of your misfortune, but very relieved that you were able to walk away. Congratulations on keeping your cool and making the best of a tough situation. You've been a great contributor to this list and, as one who is still building, I have greatly appreciated your staying with the list to report your flying experiences back to the rest of us. I hope your insurance settlement works out well and that you have an airplane again soon. As an owner of a Stratus Sub EA-81 (still in the crate, but soon to be installed) I am very concerned with its record. By my count, this makes for at least 4, maybe 5 Zodiacs alone reported on this list that have had to make emergency landings due to a Stratus Sub EA-81 in-flight malfunction. How many other Stratus Subs in other aircraft have had similar problems? Obviously there are a lot of the Stratus EA-81s out there, and they have done well for many people, but this record seems to be indicating that it may well be something of a time bomb, and I think it is time to get organized in addressing its problems. (For my part, I plan to send my heads to Ram-Subaru in Ohio for valve guide work before installation) If it doesn't already exist, it would be very helpful to have a website that lists all identified Stratus EA-81 problems, with links to fixes, if possible. Some have already done some of this work - and there may be more out there that I am not aware of. Bill Morelli has done a great job of identifying and photographing problems he has had with his Stratus EA-81 at his website, http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ , which include alternator bracket failures and engine mount failures. Don Walker and Jim Weston have reported back to the list about their experiences with valve guide failures, and John Karnes reported on an in-flight power loss due to coolant loss from a failed coolant pipe weld (??). There was also a crash in Oklahoma last winter of Stratus-powered Zodiac that totalled the aircraft, but the pilot was not on the list, if I remember correctly. Are there more? If there isn't already a website, I would be happy to set one up and post links to solutions. If the problems are limited to a few areas and are fixable, it may well be that the Stratus EA-81 can be made into a good and reliable engine and those of us who have them can fly with confidence, but at the moment, I'm very, very worried. Paul Hartl Paul Hartl, 601HDS Stratus Subaru Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage under construction FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/ email: pdhartl@mindspring.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org Sun Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:24 PM PST US From: "Philip Polstra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Personally, I think that if a study were done we would find that most of the failures have been with engines that were put together when Reiner owned the company. >>>>>>>>Phillip....Wasn't your engine purchased before Mykal bought the company, as mine was? I Yes, my engine was purchased when Reiner owned the company. I don't know if there is something that happens with friction, or more likely exhaust scavenging. But 5000 rpm seems to be a critical point. I normally cruise at less than 5000 rpm. I was crusing at about 4500 rpm when the engine failed. If I'm not going anywhere I'll throttle back to 4000 rpm. I noticed that the oil and engine block temps were both within range and perhaps 10 degrees cooler than normal at the time. I did wrap my exhaust with thermal tape. I had just inspected and adjusted the valves, and replaced the valve cover and oil pan gaskets. I finished an extensive annual condition inspection on the plane two weeks previous. Everything with the engine looked great when I was doing the inspection. I still don't know what happened yet. They are still trying to recover the airplane. I'll let you know what if anything I find after they retrieve the plane. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:00 PM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:25:24 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Hey Don, I am not a mechanic, so I can just give you my layman's understanding. Mykal, after several failures, started using new valve guides which are a bronze alloy. He put a ring on these in an attempt to keep them from going into the cylinder. However, Frank's failed anyway. Knurling is a technique used in automobiles when an oversized guide is not used in rebuilding a head. I will send you a picture of the knurled guide that failed on mine off list. The old guide is knurled, which displaces metal in the same way a crater makes a pit but pushes a ring up around it that is higher than the original surface. The knurled section becomes a little larger in diameter. Trouble is that pressing one of these into an aluminum bore seems to be futile since aluminum is softer. It is not acceptable in aircraft, which I diplomatically suggested to Mykal three years ago. He disagreed and has gone on using them it appears. d walker ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Honabach To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:41 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Don, >>> It appears to me that both Reiner and Mykal had been knurling guides, even on Mykals new bronze fix What does it mean to knurl a guide? Is this just a way of seating the valve guides? Also, what is the bronze fix? Sorry for the all basic questions - just trying to understand and learn. Thanks! Don -----Original Message----- From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Don, If you have a conversation with Mykal at Stratus and have a conversation with Ron at Ram, and if you know anything about this, then you will see the difference in their level of understanding of the engines. Ram will use guides WITH SHOULDERS, which can not go through into the cylinders. Ram also seems to be much more sensitive to the tolerances of the guide and of the valves. Frank Hinde has Ram's work flying now on his HDS. Let's see how his come out. He should have about ten or more hours on them by now. It appears to me that both Reiner and Mykal had been knurling guides, even on Mykals new bronze fix, rather than using oversize guides with the Heat/freeze and press method which would insure a reliable fit. Mykal seems willing to do what works, but to me seems slow on the uptake about what that is. don walker ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Honabach To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:56 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Since the majority of issues for the EA81 appear to be valve related, is there a way to do a proper inspection of the valve guides (or ?) every 5/10 hours? Also, since the problem appears to be heat related (or at least that is where the finger is pointing at the moment), it would seem prudent to make sure your water and oil sensors are reading true. I can see where a bad or mis-calibrated sensor is giving the pilot the indication where they don't believe the engine is being abused, yet is being totally hammered. Maybe even 2 sensors for the water temp would be in order. I've also considered sending my valves to RAM to be re-done by their method, but do we really know if there method is any better. I've been thinking about asking for client list and calling them. RAM mentions that they do XYZ which should be better, but how do we really know? Are we basically buying a snake-oil fix out of an unjustified fear? Ultimately, I think that as consumers we need to start demanding that the companies that sell the mod'd engines have a public method of reporting issues that is accessible by all - something like a list server for their engines would be great and a documented procedure for dealing with reported issues should also be in place by the manufacturer. I would encourage anyone getting ready to purchase an engine ask/demand that there is something in place as a condition of sale for any engine. Regards, Don Honabach -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartl [mailto:pdhartl@mindspring.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" Philip, I'm so sorry to hear of your misfortune, but very relieved that you were able to walk away. Congratulations on keeping your cool and making the best of a tough situation. You've been a great contributor to this list and, as one who is still building, I have greatly appreciated your staying with the list to report your flying experiences back to the rest of us. I hope your insurance settlement works out well and that you have an airplane again soon. As an owner of a Stratus Sub EA-81 (still in the crate, but soon to be installed) I am very concerned with its record. By my count, this makes for at least 4, maybe 5 Zodiacs alone reported on this list that have had to make emergency landings due to a Stratus Sub EA-81 in-flight malfunction. How many other Stratus Subs in other aircraft have had similar problems? Obviously there are a lot of the Stratus EA-81s out there, and they have done well for many people, but this record seems to be indicating that it may well be something of a time bomb, and I think it is time to get organized in addressing its problems. (For my part, I plan to send my heads to Ram-Subaru in Ohio for valve guide work before installation) If it doesn't already exist, it would be very helpful to have a website that lists all Some have already done some of this work - and there may be more out there that I am not aware of. Bill Morelli has done a great job of identifying and photographing problems he has had with his Stratus EA-81 at his website, http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ , which include alternator bracket failures and engine mount failures. Don Walker and Jim Weston have reported back to the list about their experiences with valve guide failures, and John Karnes reported on an in-flight power loss due to coolant loss from a failed coolant pipe weld (??). There was also a crash in Oklahoma last winter of Stratus-powered Zodiac that totalled the aircraft, but the pilot was not on the list, if I remember correctly. Are there more? If there isn't already a website, I would be happy to set one up and post links to solutions. If the problems are limited to a few areas and are fixable, it may well be that the Stratus EA-81 can be made into a good and reliable engine and those of us who have them can fly with confidence, but at the moment, I'm very, very worried. Paul Hartl Paul Hartl, 601HDS Stratus Subaru Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage under construction FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/ email: pdhartl@mindspring.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org Sun Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:54 PM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: valve guides Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:42:40 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" I have had three valve guide failures on the Stratus and the Stratus replacement heads Mykal sent. All occurred at less than 4500 rpm. One occurred with engine temp of 215 degrees in the summer at 40 hours engine time. The replacement failed 200 hours later at engine temp of 185 degrees in the winter at 4200 rpm. The third was just after takeoff at 190 degrees in winter at 44oo rpm. All three of the failures were knurled intake guides. d walker ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Polstra To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:39 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in the world :( --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Personally, I think that if a study were done we would find that most of the failures have been with engines that were put together when Reiner owned the company. >>>>>>>>Phillip....Wasn't your engine purchased before Mykal bought the company, as mine was? I Yes, my engine was purchased when Reiner owned the company. I don't know if there is something that happens with friction, or more likely exhaust scavenging. But 5000 rpm seems to be a critical point. I normally cruise at less than 5000 rpm. I was crusing at about 4500 rpm when the engine failed. If I'm not going anywhere I'll throttle back to 4000 rpm. I noticed that the oil and engine block temps were both within range and perhaps 10 degrees cooler than normal at the time. I did wrap my exhaust with thermal tape. I had just inspected and adjusted the valves, and replaced the valve cover and oil pan gaskets. I finished an extensive annual condition inspection on the plane two weeks previous. Everything with the engine looked great when I was doing the inspection. I still don't know what happened yet. They are still trying to recover the airplane. I'll let you know what if anything I find after they retrieve the plane. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:40 PM PST US From: Pwalsh4539@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inquiry --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com Hi, Saad, I built and own a 601 HD in the Sherman area, approx. 60 miles north of Dallas. Feel free to contact me at PWalsh4539@AOL.com. Patrick Walsh DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:10 PM PST US From: "David Witt" Subject: Zenith-List: Lightening Holes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Witt" I am getting ready to start making parts for my CH-640. I can't seem to find any information on lightening hole dimensions and flange sizes. I see the holes labeled with designation such as F95 or F105, etc. I assume that this means the hole is 95mm or 105mm. Am I correct? Also, how big is the flange to be and what angle is it formed at. Thanks Dave Witt CH-640 Builder ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:53 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: valve guides --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower It will be very important to keep track (in a list database) of all this incidents until the best "cure" is found... No engine is bullet proof or perfect. Our two Rotax 912S engines have gone to two (2) factory advised repairs each one in one year since purchase... and they are STILL IN THE BOX! the planes are not finished they are still 0 hrs. The only diference is that they (Rotax) have comunication to all the owners that can recieve their e-mailed based informnation about their engines updates, maybe thats is why they are expensive. Hope soon the problem(s) are solved, is good to have alternate engines for homebuilt aircrafts. Saludos Gary Gower. --- Don Walker wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" > > I have had three valve guide failures on the Stratus and the Stratus > replacement heads Mykal sent. All occurred at less than 4500 rpm. One > occurred with engine temp of 215 degrees in the summer at 40 hours > engine time. The replacement failed 200 hours later at engine temp of > 185 degrees in the winter at 4200 rpm. The third was just after > takeoff at 190 degrees in winter at 44oo rpm. All three of the > failures were knurled intake guides. d walker > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Philip Polstra > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:39 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA-81 reliability was One less Zodiac in > the world :( > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" > > > Personally, I think that if a study were done we would find that > most of the > failures have been with engines that were put together when Reiner > owned the > company. >>>>>>>>Phillip....Wasn't your engine purchased before > Mykal > bought the company, as mine was? I > Yes, my engine was purchased when Reiner owned the company. > > I don't know if there is something that happens with friction, or > more > likely exhaust scavenging. But 5000 rpm seems to be a critical > point. > > I normally cruise at less than 5000 rpm. I was crusing at > about 4500 rpm > when the engine failed. If I'm not going anywhere I'll throttle > back to > 4000 rpm. I noticed that the oil and engine block temps were both > within > range and perhaps 10 degrees cooler than normal at the time. I did > wrap my > exhaust with thermal tape. I had just inspected and adjusted the > valves, > and replaced the valve cover and oil pan gaskets. I finished an > extensive > annual condition inspection on the plane two weeks previous. > Everything > with the engine looked great when I was doing the inspection. > > I still don't know what happened yet. They are still trying to > recover the > airplane. I'll let you know what if anything I find after they > retrieve the > plane. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:37 PM PST US From: Bill Morelli Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Morelli I have 252 hours on my Stratus Subaru to date. Average is 100 hours per year. Mine was built by Reiner. I have always flown (and still do) at 4800 rpm. I checked the valve guides (position) when the engine was new and have checked them at each annual and also at each oil change (every 50 hours). They have not moved. I would say that if an overheat condition has occurred on a Stratus, the valve guides should be looked at for sure. If folks are interested, I could post some photos (as soon as I dig them out) of the valve guides showing what they look like when they are OK. I actually took baseline measurements of the guides when the engine was new but I believe that a visual is adequate if you know what you are looking for. I'm not trying to minimize the valve guide concerns but don't jump to conclusions yet on what happened to Phil's engine. It could have been a number of things that went wrong (broken rocker arm, push rod, valve, etc.). Anyway, I'll keep on checking the valve guides to be on the safe side. If anyone has a problem getting past this valve guide issue (mentally at least) I would suggest what Paul H. is going to do and have the valve guides reworked by Ram. I don't think the cost is very prohibitive for the peace of mind you may gain. Regards, Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus - Vermont - 252 flight hrs. - 362 landings, 1 ON ICE!!) web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ >Since the majority of issues for the EA81 appear to be valve related, is >there a way to do a proper inspection of the valve guides (or ?) every >5/10 hours? > >Also, since the problem appears to be heat related (or at least that is >where the finger is pointing at the moment), it would seem prudent to >make sure your water and oil sensors are reading true. I can see where a >bad or mis-calibrated sensor is giving the pilot the indication where >they don't believe the engine is being abused, yet is being totally >hammered. Maybe even 2 sensors for the water temp would be in order. > >I've also considered sending my valves to RAM to be re-done by their >method, but do we really know if there method is any better. I've been >thinking about asking for client list and calling them. RAM mentions >that they do XYZ which should be better, but how do we really know? Are >we basically buying a snake-oil fix out of an unjustified fear? > >Ultimately, I think that as consumers we need to start demanding that >the companies that sell the mod'd engines have a public method of >reporting issues that is accessible by all - something like a list >server for their engines would be great and a documented procedure for >dealing with reported issues should also be in place by the >manufacturer. I would encourage anyone getting ready to purchase an >engine ask/demand that there is something in place as a condition of >sale for any engine. > >Regards, >Don Honabach > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Hartl [mailto:pdhartl@mindspring.com] >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" > >Philip, > > I'm so sorry to hear of your misfortune, but very relieved that you >were able to walk >away. Congratulations on keeping your cool and making the best of a >tough >situation. You've been a great contributor to this list and, as one who >is still >building, I have greatly appreciated your staying with the list to >report your flying >experiences back to the rest of us. I hope your insurance settlement >works out well >and that you have an airplane again soon. > > As an owner of a Stratus Sub EA-81 (still in the crate, but soon to be >installed) I am >very concerned with its record. By my count, this makes for at least 4, >maybe 5 >Zodiacs alone reported on this list that have had to make emergency >landings due >to a Stratus Sub EA-81 in-flight malfunction. How many other Stratus >Subs in other >aircraft have had similar problems? Obviously there are a lot of the >Stratus EA-81s >out there, and they have done well for many people, but this record >seems to be >indicating that it may well be something of a time bomb, and I think it >is time to get >organized in addressing its problems. (For my part, I plan to send my >heads to >Ram-Subaru in Ohio for valve guide work before installation) > >If it doesn't already exist, it would be very helpful to have a website >that lists all >identified Stratus EA-81 problems, with links to fixes, if possible. >Some have >already done some of this work - and there may be more out there that I >am not >aware of. Bill Morelli has done a great job of identifying and >photographing >problems he has had with his Stratus EA-81 at his website, >http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ , which include alternator >bracket failures and >engine mount failures. Don Walker and Jim Weston have reported back to >the list >about their experiences with valve guide failures, and John Karnes >reported on an >in-flight power loss due to coolant loss from a failed coolant pipe weld >(??). There >was also a crash in Oklahoma last winter of Stratus-powered Zodiac that >totalled the >aircraft, but the pilot was not on the list, if I remember correctly. >Are there more? > >If there isn't already a website, I would be happy to set one up and >post links to >solutions. If the problems are limited to a few areas and are fixable, >it may well be >that the Stratus EA-81 can be made into a good and reliable engine and >those of us >who have them can fly with confidence, but at the moment, I'm very, very >worried. > >Paul Hartl > > >Paul Hartl, 601HDS Stratus Subaru >Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage under construction >FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/ >email: pdhartl@mindspring.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org Sun >Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147 > > >direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:37 PM PST US From: "Brian Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lightening Holes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Walker" >I assume that this means the hole is 95mm or 105mm. Am I correct? Also, how big is >the flange to be and what angle is it formed at. Dave, I just measured some lightening holes in my CH640 bulkheads and most were approximately 100mm in diameter. The smaller ones were approximately 70mm in diameter. The flange was concave shaped and approximately 15mm wide and 7mm tall. I can measure the lightening holes in other parts if that will help: just let me know which ones. Good luck! Brian CH640 std kit - inventory done ready to build Lebanon, TN brianwalker@charter.net ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:47 PM PST US From: "John Karnes" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: One less Zodiac in the world --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" "...and have checked them at each annual and also at each oil change (every 50 hours). They have not moved." What process is used to check the valve guides? (Step-by-step, please. I'm mechanically challenged.) John Karnes Port Orchard, WA ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:17 PM PST US From: Ramperf@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Valve guides --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com My name is Ron and I'm new to the list. I'd like to thank you for the good this list does and the tight knit group. I'm the owner of RAM Performance in Ohio and I would like to address the for mentioned valve guide problem. Just to give you some back round on myself, I have been in the engine building business for 18 years (racing industry) and the last 7 years of it has been devoted to the ea81 engine (and other Subaru), so I have some time involved. The valve guide problem that you have been discussing, I have found two problems. First, the loose guides I have found are bronze guides or stock guides that were installed by driving the old ones out and driving the new ones in ,cold. This process removes aluminum from the bore and causes a larger hole. If the guide was loose (not tight when driven in ) the guide was knurled and installed. This is not the proper process for the installation of a guide in an aluminum head, any head! The next problem I found was that the guide was not cut down for the larger camshaft and the retainer was making contact with the top of the guide, shoving it into the head. I have found heads with the guide shoved into the radius of the valve even with a ring retainer on the guide. The way to check this is to measure the distance from the bottom of the retainer to the top of the guide with the cam at full lift, you need a minimum of .100. Or you can take your heads off and cut the guide down to .555 above the guide boss. At my shop we use the sweat method, we evenly heat the head and freeze the guide. Our guides are made in house with a .500 shoulder machine on the top for positive stop, they are mag-bronze and require no ring. I have tested these guides to "burn" on the dyno with no failures and is the guide we use in our heads. I certainly am not attacking anyone but just wanted to address the issue and hope to stay in tune with your list. Thanks so much for your time, Ron ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:54 PM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lightening Holes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" David: The angle I used is 45 deg. On the "Tools" page of my website you will find a drawing of the 95mm and 115 mm hole flanger and also the drawing used to make the dies. I have made several flanged holes and they turned out fantastic. Good luck, Scott Laughlin 601XL Plansbuilding www.cooknwithgas.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "David Witt" Subject: Zenith-List: Lightening Holes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Witt" I am getting ready to start making parts for my CH-640. I can't seem to find any information on lightening hole dimensions and flange sizes. I see the holes labeled with designation such as F95 or F105, etc. I assume that this means the hole is 95mm or 105mm. Am I correct? Also, how big is the flange to be and what angle is it formed at. Thanks Dave Witt CH-640 Builder ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:40 PM PST US From: "Rich" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 site updated --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" For those interested in the CH-801... http://www.firstflightbbs.org/CH801 Rich do not archive