---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/23/03: 70 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:00 AM - Manual for 701SP (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com) 2. 02:38 AM - Re: 912S Hard Starting (Phil & Michele Miller) 3. 03:43 AM - Re: Mitchell Instruments... (RoyN9869L@aol.com) 4. 04:11 AM - 601HD Joy Stick (CBRxxDRV@aol.com) 5. 06:16 AM - Re: Flight Service Station (Dave Alberti) 6. 07:13 AM - Re: Mitchell Instruments... (Don Honabach) 7. 07:19 AM - Re: 601HD Joy Stick (Don Honabach) 8. 07:55 AM - Re: 601HD Joy Stick (Don Walker) 9. 08:52 AM - Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 10. 09:13 AM - Re: 601HD Joy Stick (Paul Sharpe) 11. 09:17 AM - Re: Header tank (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com) 12. 09:21 AM - Re: Header tank (Paul Sharpe) 13. 09:24 AM - Re: Header tank (Mark A. Wood) 14. 10:39 AM - Re: Get scientific was Too many Zodiacs down! (Garrou, Douglas) 15. 10:46 AM - Re: Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 16. 10:46 AM - Re: Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 17. 10:47 AM - Re: Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 18. 11:33 AM - extra storage behind seat (CLOJAN@aol.com) 19. 11:54 AM - Re: Header tank (Mark A. Wood) 20. 11:59 AM - Re: 601HD Joy Stick (CBRxxDRV@aol.com) 21. 12:34 PM - Re: Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 22. 12:35 PM - Re: XL extra storage behind seat (wizard-24@juno.com) 23. 12:45 PM - Re: Mitchell Instruments... (RoyN9869L@aol.com) 24. 01:14 PM - Re: Header tank (Ray Montagne) 25. 01:35 PM - Re: Header tank (Bill Steer) 26. 01:39 PM - silicon carbide (Flydog1966@aol.com) 27. 02:13 PM - Re: silicon carbide (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 28. 02:27 PM - Re: silicon carbide (Flydog1966@aol.com) 29. 02:44 PM - Re: Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 30. 02:51 PM - Re: Header tank (Ray Montagne) 31. 02:52 PM - Re: Mitchell Instruments... (Grant Corriveau) 32. 02:54 PM - KAWO - Arlington (Ray Montagne) 33. 02:57 PM - Re: Header tank (Dave Alberti) 34. 03:03 PM - Re: 601HD Joy Stick (Grant Corriveau) 35. 03:05 PM - Re: silicon carbide (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 36. 03:12 PM - Re: extra storage behind seat (Larry McFarland) 37. 03:26 PM - Re: Get scientific was Too many Zodiacs down! (Benford2@aol.com) 38. 03:28 PM - Re: Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 39. 03:29 PM - Re: Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 40. 03:29 PM - Re: KAWO - Arlington (Frank Stutzman) 41. 03:33 PM - Re: 601HD Joy Stick (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 42. 03:36 PM - Re: KAWO - Arlington (Kurt Kingston) 43. 03:38 PM - Re: Mitchell Instruments... [bcc][faked-from] (Don Honabach) 44. 03:39 PM - CH 701 float performance (Kurt Kingston) 45. 03:40 PM - 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... (Don Honabach) 46. 04:01 PM - Re: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... (Jim Cullen) 47. 04:11 PM - Re: 601HD Joy Stick (Jackie B. Johnson) 48. 04:20 PM - Re: Header tank (Pwalsh4539@aol.com) 49. 04:20 PM - Re: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... (Don Honabach) 50. 04:25 PM - Re: KAWO - Arlington (Ray Montagne) 51. 04:26 PM - Re: Header tank (Pwalsh4539@aol.com) 52. 04:27 PM - Re: 912S Hard Starting (Dave Austin) 53. 04:29 PM - Re: Header tank (Ray Montagne) 54. 04:29 PM - Re: Header tank (Pwalsh4539@aol.com) 55. 05:06 PM - Re: Header tank (Safety concern) (Gary Gower) 56. 05:06 PM - Re: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... (Michel Therrien) 57. 05:25 PM - Re: extra storage behind seat (Michel Therrien) 58. 05:43 PM - Re: Header tank (Philip Polstra) 59. 05:44 PM - Re: Header tank (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 60. 06:15 PM - Re: KAWO - Arlington (Winston Ellis) 61. 06:34 PM - Re: Header tank (Jeff Small) 62. 06:58 PM - Re: Header tank (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com) 63. 07:29 PM - Re: 601HD Joy Stick (CBRxxDRV@aol.com) 64. 07:53 PM - Re: Header tank (Michel Therrien) 65. 08:02 PM - Re: KAWO - Arlington (Scott Laughlin) 66. 08:38 PM - Re: KAWO - Arlington (Ray Montagne) 67. 10:40 PM - Re: Header tank (Gary Gower) 68. 10:47 PM - Re: Header tank (Gary Gower) 69. 11:11 PM - Re: Header tank (Gary Gower) 70. 11:29 PM - Re: Header tank (Murphy's law?) (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:28 AM PST US From: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com Subject: Zenith-List: Manual for 701SP 06/23/2003 09:59:20 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com Has anyone a good operators manual or manual template for CH701SP to share? And if so, I'd like to get link to it. Zenair's example (what I have) seems to be only for previous version of 701. -Jari / CH701SP, OH-XJJ jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:32 AM PST US From: "Phil & Michele Miller" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912S Hard Starting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" Hi, Dave, 912 & 912S engines run at 26 deg BTDC. At less than 1000rpm they fire at 4 deg BTDC. The switching is carried out by the electronic modules. We were absolutely convinced the problem had to be caused by incorrect timing but have checked the pulse at all 8 spark plugs at cranking speed and they all fire at 4 degrees. These engines idle well above 1000rpm so timing at idle should be 26 degrees. There is no way to adjust the timing but a very clever friend made up two offset brackets to retard one pair of the trigger coils. We fitted them then tried starting on one mag and it fired up almost immediately; when we shut down and tried again it was back to the old kicking and bucking and wouldn't start. Not really sure what it proved but it prompted us to check the timing on all 8 plugs as described above. Fuel pressure on cranking and zero flow is 4.9psi on the standard Rotax mechanical pump. Prop is a 3-blade Warp Drive which I believe is the one recommended by ZAC. Cheers, Phil M -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Austin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S Hard Starting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" Just one more time, Phil, After all the checks you have done, the kickback and violent rocking you describe surely can only be that the ignition is firing too soon before TDC. I've never enquired of Rotax whether their ignition modules include a retard function at low or starting rpm. If they do, that could be failing. If not, I would try retarding the ignition up to five degrees. I don't recall you mentioning a timing check under idling condition. The flooding would almost certainly be the shaking disturbing the needle valves. Which raises one more question.. what fuel pressure are you seeing when you do these cold start attempts? No more than 4 lbs/sq.in.? I prime with the electric pump, then turn it off. We've had builders here install incorrect higher pressure pumps, which has caused all sorts of problems. Are you using an unusually heavy prop, or a very flexible one which is causing the crankshaft to "pulse"? Bit of a pig getting to the stage you are and putting the money down. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:20 AM PST US From: RoyN9869L@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mitchell Instruments... --> Zenith-List message posted by: RoyN9869L@aol.com Hi Don, You didn't say if you had a mounting cluster for those instruments. The cluster is bought separately, see 2002/2003 ACS catalog page 353, See in fine print mid page for your situation, Cheers Regards, Roger Roy CH-701 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:45 AM PST US From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com I have always thought I would like to do away with the "Y" stick on the 601 and since I ordered my RAC grip have been thinking of starting on this. Any pointers, ideas or guidence? Length or angle. I was looking at it yesterday and thought I needed to keep the same angle rearward as the "Y"stick. TIA Sal Capra Lakeland, FL My Home Page http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:31 AM PST US From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flight Service Station --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" It was 9815L Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight Service Station --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower This is the data from Landings of the plane involved in the emergency on the tape: N-number : N95L Aircraft Serial Number : 15383 Aircraft Manufacturer : CESSNA Model : 140A Engine Manufacturer : CONT MOTOR ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:25 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Mitchell Instruments... From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Roger, Thanks for the reply! I've only got 2 of the instruments and the smallest cluster mount is 4. It also just seems weird that there isn't any flange on these guys. If they had a 2 cluster mount, I'd probably pick it up and deal with the flange issue, but since I have to custom make one, I was curios as to what others have done. Thanks! Don -----Original Message----- From: RoyN9869L@aol.com [mailto:RoyN9869L@aol.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mitchell Instruments... --> Zenith-List message posted by: RoyN9869L@aol.com Hi Don, You didn't say if you had a mounting cluster for those instruments. The cluster is bought separately, see 2002/2003 ACS catalog page 353, See in fine print mid page for your situation, Cheers Regards, Roger Roy CH-701 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:12 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" >> I have always thought I would like to do away with the "Y" stick on the 601 I'm just at the phase where I can sit in my plane and make noises (hopefully no one has a video camera near by) and do make-believe radio calls (to test my N# and practice the lost skill of flying/comm work). Any way, the Y stick actually seems to fit just about perfect. I didn't like it at first and thought it was going to get in the way, but when seated, it seems literally just about as perfect as you can get. Did you want to get rid of the co-pilot part of the Y or just got with a basic straight up and down type stick? Regards, Don -----Original Message----- From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com [mailto:CBRxxDRV@aol.com] Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com I have always thought I would like to do away with the "Y" stick on the 601 and since I ordered my RAC grip have been thinking of starting on this. Any pointers, ideas or guidence? Length or angle. I was looking at it yesterday and thought I needed to keep the same angle rearward as the "Y"stick. TIA Sal Capra Lakeland, FL My Home Page http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:37 AM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:55:25 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" I contemplated the same thing because it felt foreign to me, but I didn't want to do any more than necessary before getting airborne back in '99, so I left it. When I began taxi testing, the difference disappeared immediately. Now I am very glad I left it. I really enjoy allowing a passenger to be lightly on the stick with me, to get the feel for the motion (or lack of it). The y makes that natural. It also fits the arm and wrist well while using the armrest. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Honabach To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:19 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" >> I have always thought I would like to do away with the "Y" stick on the 601 I'm just at the phase where I can sit in my plane and make noises (hopefully no one has a video camera near by) and do make-believe radio calls (to test my N# and practice the lost skill of flying/comm work). Any way, the Y stick actually seems to fit just about perfect. I didn't like it at first and thought it was going to get in the way, but when seated, it seems literally just about as perfect as you can get. Did you want to get rid of the co-pilot part of the Y or just got with a basic straight up and down type stick? Regards, Don -----Original Message----- From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com [mailto:CBRxxDRV@aol.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com I have always thought I would like to do away with the "Y" stick on the 601 and since I ordered my RAC grip have been thinking of starting on this. Any pointers, ideas or guidence? Length or angle. I was looking at it yesterday and thought I needed to keep the same angle rearward as the "Y"stick. TIA Sal Capra Lakeland, FL My Home Page http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:14 AM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon header tank behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to eliminate this tank, and install tanks in both wing lockers instead? Is the header tank a safe system? Tanks for the comments.....Dave ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:35 AM PST US From: "Paul Sharpe" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Sharpe" ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick I wouldn't recommend doing away with the "Y" stick. I thought it looked strange too at first, but now that I'm flying with it I really like it. It places your arm and wrist at a very comfortable position. Remember too that the 601 is very light on the controls; you plant your elbow on the armrest and really only need to use your fingertips on the stick. Paul Sharpe C-IABP / CH601HD ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:52 AM PST US From: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com In a message dated 6/23/2003 11:53:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, dave@rockinrimranch.com writes: > I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon header tank > behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to eliminate this tank, and > install tanks in both wing lockers instead? Is the header tank a safe system? > > Tanks for the comments.....Dave > > Nope..........!!!!!! John W. Tarabocchia http://www.hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/ N6042T 100hrs. flown ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:36 AM PST US From: "Paul Sharpe" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Sharpe" ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Zenith-List: Header tank > I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon header tank behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to eliminate this tank, and install tanks in both wing lockers instead? Is the header tank a safe system? I had concerns before building my 601 because of some nasty accidents several years ago, so I opted for a leading edge tank in each wing, each with it's own Facet fuel pump, and no header tank. I'm glad I did, and would do it again if I built another 601. Paul Sharpe C-IABP / CH601HD ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:03 AM PST US From: "Mark A. Wood" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" Depends on who you ask. The header will let you fly when your fuel pump stops. GOOD It will also be a fire issue in case of a crash. BAD I have the 8 gal header with wing tanks and like that. Mark Wood >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > >I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon >header tank behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to >eliminate this tank, and install tanks in both wing lockers instead? >Is the header tank a safe system? > >Tanks for the comments.....Dave > -- Mark Wood Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team Center on Disability and Community Inclusion University of Vermont ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:53 AM PST US From: "Garrou, Douglas" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Get scientific was Too many Zodiacs down! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" I agree it is a bold statement, but it was boldly borne of my (perhaps unique) aversion to engine-out landings. Although I would be the first to admit I am no hotshot stick and rudder man, my flying skills are a separate question. I think I probably *could* get it down on the salt flats on a clear day with a BRS and a gun to my head, my point is that don't want to find out the answer to that question if I can avoid it! :) The certified manufacturers definitely have had some serious quality control problems. And when that happens, the ramifications are also likely to be MUCH more severe than problems with an aftermarket auto conversion, simply because there are LOTS more certified engines out there (especially, on a percentage basis, in larger piston-engined passenger planes, all of which probably use certified engines). But if the Lycoming crankshaft problem has cost people their lives, the flip side is that the regulatory regime then *prevented* further injuries, crashes, or deaths by grounding the fleet. Would a similar review of, say, recent auto conversion failures result in a grounding of THAT engine, preventing a FUTURE accident? We'll never know. Would one of these recent 601 crashes -- where injury was averted by skill AND likely by a bit of luck -- have been prevented if the regulators and their ADs had been on the scene from the get-go? We'll never know. Our information about aftermarket auto conversions is completely anecdotal unless and until their manufacturers choose to put equivalent quality control and tracking programs in place. And what I was saying in my admittedly hyperbolic way is that the anecdotal evidence I have seen here is worrisome to me. I absolutely appreciate that other people see it differently, and that they approach the issue from valid and different perspectives on risk, cost, etc. Put another way, I do not think other people are crazy for flying behind auto engines -- I only think it would be crazy for ME to do so, since I am an admitted flying chicken. Doug p.s. No offense taken on the Doud thing. :) -----Original Message----- That is quite a bold statement to make. If you could not land safely within the parameters you quote above you might want to rethink your flying skills. Surely you heard about the Lycoming fiasco last year and this in which the FAA ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:03 AM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Thanks Mark. I was planning on installing a Facet fuel pump in series or parallel as a backup. How is your system set up? Do you feed your header tank by pumping fuel ito it from the wing tanks? Or do all tanks feed the gascolator through a fuel selector switch? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark A. Wood" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" > > Depends on who you ask. > The header will let you fly when your fuel pump stops. GOOD > It will also be a fire issue in case of a crash. BAD > I have the 8 gal header with wing tanks and like that. > > Mark Wood > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > > > >I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon > >header tank behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to > >eliminate this tank, and install tanks in both wing lockers instead? > >Is the header tank a safe system? > > > >Tanks for the comments.....Dave > > > > -- > Mark Wood > Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team > Center on Disability and Community Inclusion > University of Vermont > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:46 AM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." That was short and sweet, John. Thanks...Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com > > In a message dated 6/23/2003 11:53:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, > dave@rockinrimranch.com writes: > > > > I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon header tank > > behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to eliminate this tank, and > > install tanks in both wing lockers instead? Is the header tank a safe system? > > > > Tanks for the comments.....Dave > > > > > > Nope..........!!!!!! > John W. Tarabocchia > http://www.hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/ > > N6042T 100hrs. flown > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:47 AM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Thanks Paul. Seems there are lots of opinions on this. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Sharpe" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Sharpe" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > Subject: Zenith-List: Header tank > > > > I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon header tank > behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to eliminate this tank, and > install tanks in both wing lockers instead? Is the header tank a safe > system? > > > I had concerns before building my 601 because of some nasty accidents > several years ago, so I opted for a leading edge tank in each wing, each > with it's own Facet fuel pump, and no header tank. I'm glad I did, and > would do it again if I built another 601. > > Paul Sharpe > C-IABP / CH601HD > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:19 AM PST US From: CLOJAN@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: extra storage behind seat --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com After building the seat structure on my XL I find that there is quite a bit of room behind the passenger seat under the luggage shelf. ( The pilot side has the flap motor.) I was wondering if anyone thought about building a "trunk" in this area to keep the small stuff concealed that you don't want in public view? It looks like the back cushion would fold forward for access to this compartment. Thanks Jack Russell Clovis,CA #5000 XL ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:19 AM PST US From: "Mark A. Wood" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" Dave I have a shut off on the line from each tank as it comes in from the wing tank (these will both stay open in normal use). They T into a single Facet fuel pump which pumps to the header. From the header I have a overflow / return line which returns to my right wing tank. Also from the header it is gravity feed to the gascolator and then the Aero-Carb carburetor by Sonex. This carburetor uses very low fuel pressure, but I would assume that the standard carb on my O-200 would also work gravity feed on this system. This is not yet a tested system. I hope to have the air duct work in my cowl done in the next two weeks and will then be ready to fire it up for the first time, and give it a test. Mark >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > >Thanks Mark. I was planning on installing a Facet fuel pump in series or >parallel as a backup. How is your system set up? Do you feed your header >tank by pumping fuel ito it from the wing tanks? Or do all tanks feed the >gascolator through a fuel selector switch? > >Dave >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark A. Wood" >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > -- Mark Wood Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team Center on Disability and Community Inclusion University of Vermont ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:42 AM PST US From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com In a message dated 6/23/03 10:19:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, don@pcperfect.com writes: > Did you > want to get rid of the co-pilot part of the Y or just got with a basic > straight up and down type stick? > I was going to put the G205 RAC grip on it with the elevator and aileron trim on the stick. I can do it with the Y as I have seen it done, but I though I would like the single stick. Sal Capra Lakeland, FL My Home Page http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:22 PM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Thanks for the info, Mark. Sounds like your system works fairly well. Incidently, do you know why ZAC requires cork between the metal header tank and the fuselage? I thought all metal parts had to be grounded, including the fuel tank. When refueling, do you connect the grounding line from the FBO fuel pump to the headr tank, or to the aircraft itself? Thanks....Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark A. Wood" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" > > Dave > > I have a shut off on the line from each tank as it comes in from the > wing tank (these will both stay open in normal use). They T into a > single Facet fuel pump which pumps to the header. From the header I > have a overflow / return line which returns to my right wing tank. > Also from the header it is gravity feed to the gascolator and then > the Aero-Carb carburetor by Sonex. This carburetor uses very low fuel > pressure, but I would assume that the standard carb on my O-200 would > also work gravity feed on this system. > > This is not yet a tested system. I hope to have the air duct work in > my cowl done in the next two weeks and will then be ready to fire it > up for the first time, and give it a test. > > Mark > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > > > >Thanks Mark. I was planning on installing a Facet fuel pump in series or > >parallel as a backup. How is your system set up? Do you feed your header > >tank by pumping fuel ito it from the wing tanks? Or do all tanks feed the > >gascolator through a fuel selector switch? > > > >Dave > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mark A. Wood" > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > > > > -- > Mark Wood > Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team > Center on Disability and Community Inclusion > University of Vermont > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL extra storage behind seat From: wizard-24@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com > room behind the passenger seat under the luggage shelf. I've thought about that too. I'm thinking that maybe it'll be useful space to store part of a collapsible bike or scooter that I can sue when I land somewhere. I plan to wait until I can do a weight and balance on the completed plane to see if that is even a possibility. Mike Fortunato 601XL Attaching flaps The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:27 PM PST US From: RoyN9869L@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mitchell Instruments... --> Zenith-List message posted by: RoyN9869L@aol.com Don, I installed a 5 cluster Mitchell system in my Grumman and the cluster had mounting tabs. In the spruce catalog on the paragraph that I mentioned it addresses the one or two gage installation. You can call Mitchell at (847)615-2887 and speak with Bob, he is one of the product engineers RR ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 6/23/03 12:33 PM, "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > Incidently, do you know why ZAC requires cork between the metal header tank > and the fuselage? I thought all metal parts had to be grounded, including > the fuel tank. When refueling, do you connect the grounding line from the > FBO fuel pump to the headr tank, or to the aircraft itself? > Cork is also used on the wing tanks on the XL. The tanks include a tab to connect a grounding wire. Best Regards, Ray Montagne EAA: 697920 AOPA: 039409692 =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Completed Right Wing Tip Under Construction =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:09 PM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" Same thing goes for the HD. Bill > Cork is also used on the wing tanks on the XL. The tanks include a tab to > connect a grounding wire. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:36 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: silicon carbide --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com well group, I have used 3-m trimite wet or dry sand paper when removing scratches from my wing spars and such, only to learn today that it is made of silicon carbide. AC43.13-1b has a chart that says not to use it on alum alloys! Can anyone tell me why, or if it is any real concearn? Thanks Phil ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:58 PM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: silicon carbide --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Zenith published a whole page in one of there back issues of the news letter on "acceptable" and "unacceptable" abrasive materials to use on aluminum construction. According to their list, "silicon" is "acceptable", while the abrasives with ferrous oxide (iron particles) are not. It was explained to me that if we sand or scrub aluminum with iron particle based abrasives or wire brushes, etc, that it is likely that we will embed iron oxide into the surface of the aluminum which sets up a galvanic ion exchange (corrosion). Don't get excited, we're talking about "micro corrosion" here. There are surely many many aluminum aircraft flying around that were unknowingly sanded with iron oxide abrasives, and we don't here about the paint popping off all over them, which would be the case if the oxide were a significant problem. I'd suggest you stick with the "acceptable materials list" from here on out. I think you can find that chart in the archives under the discussion of corrosion. I took my youngest grandson up last week (he's 8 years old) an he had a very interesting observation looking down at all the houses and cars in miniature. "Looks like a train set down there Grandpa".... Fred 47.5 hours on Jabiru 3300 powered 601 HDS 601LX ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:39 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: silicon carbide --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com Thanks for the reply about abrasives. But is the "carbide" an "iron oxide"? I'm guessing its some form of carbon. I cant figure out how to work those archives but I'll check the old newsletters for that chart. Thanks again Phil ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:13 PM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Ray, Question is.......if you're going to ground the tank with a wire, why does the tank have to be separated from the fuselage with cork? Wouldn't the tank touching the fuselage be a good ground? Thanks...Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Montagne" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > > On 6/23/03 12:33 PM, "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > > > > Incidently, do you know why ZAC requires cork between the metal header tank > > and the fuselage? I thought all metal parts had to be grounded, including > > the fuel tank. When refueling, do you connect the grounding line from the > > FBO fuel pump to the headr tank, or to the aircraft itself? > > > > Cork is also used on the wing tanks on the XL. The tanks include a tab to > connect a grounding wire. > > > Best Regards, Ray Montagne > EAA: 697920 > AOPA: 039409692 > > =========================================================================== > > Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939, Jabiru 3300 > Construction Log & Photos: > Build Status: Rudder completed > Elevator Completed > Stabilizer Completed > Flaps Completed > Ailerons Completed > Right Wing Under Completed > Right Wing Tip Under Construction > > =========================================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > Ray, > > Question is.......if you're going to ground the tank with a wire, why does > the tank have to be separated from the fuselage with cork? Wouldn't the tank > touching the fuselage be a good ground? > I wouldn't think that relying on mechanical contact would be a reliable form of grounding. Acceleration forces encountered during flight might lead to making and breaking the ground connection. The cork provides some padding that allows a tighter fit to prevent the tank from moving around (it is essentially a press fit and is not bolted in). It also prevents any movement of the tank from wearing on the components that it comes in contact with. The wire bonding will never break the ground path. DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Completed Right Wing Tip Under Construction =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mitchell Instruments... From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > From: "Don Honabach" but since I have to custom make one, I was curios as to > what others have done. I installed the Mitchell fuel pressure gauge - maybe it's similar. It also had no flange, but as I recall there's a back-plate and a securing screw. I used L-angles to make a little 'tray'/mounting well that the gauge slides into and is secured at the back with the screw -- at least that's what I recall. Don't have my aircraft nearby to check or take photo. -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:18 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne Any XL's headed to Arlington, WA? I'll be there, albeit in a Cessna. Would like to talk to other builders and see some completed aircraft. DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Completed Right Wing Tip Under Construction =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:04 PM PST US From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" Yes, right up to the moment that the vibration induced friction wears a hole through the tank!. The cork is an anti chafing mechanism. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc. Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Ray, Question is.......if you're going to ground the tank with a wire, why does the tank have to be separated from the fuselage with cork? Wouldn't the tank touching the fuselage be a good ground? Thanks...Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Montagne" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > > On 6/23/03 12:33 PM, "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > > > > Incidently, do you know why ZAC requires cork between the metal header tank > > and the fuselage? I thought all metal parts had to be grounded, including > > the fuel tank. When refueling, do you connect the grounding line from the > > FBO fuel pump to the headr tank, or to the aircraft itself? > > > > Cork is also used on the wing tanks on the XL. The tanks include a tab to > connect a grounding wire. > > > Best Regards, Ray Montagne > EAA: 697920 > AOPA: 039409692 > > =========================================================================== > > Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939, Jabiru 3300 > Construction Log & Photos: > Build Status: Rudder completed > Elevator Completed > Stabilizer Completed > Flaps Completed > Ailerons Completed > Right Wing Under Completed > Right Wing Tip Under Construction > > =========================================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > I have always thought I would like to do away with the "Y" stick > on the 601 and since I ordered my RAC grip have been thinking > of starting on this. Any pointers, ideas or guidence? Length or > angle. I was looking at it yesterday and thought I needed to > keep the same angle rearward as the "Y"stick. > > TIA I chopped the pax side of the 'Y' off before first flight - not planning any dual training and the Y interferes with my access across the panel/lower sidewall on the right. I still don't care for the pilot side of the Y as it tends to get in the way of my inboard knew - but I am long-legged. I am seriously contemplating one more 'chop' to remove the Y altogether and install a wooden grip with 1 pitch-trim 'cap' switch. I don't care for the MAC grip with the small trim buttons - they are not intuitive; not easy to find with the finger tips without accidently trimming; and one of the aileron buttons tends to come to rest against my kneecap when I'm not noticing it ... i.e. Hey? why is the aircraft banking???? ;-) -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:00 PM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: silicon carbide --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" > Thanks for the reply about abrasives. But is the "carbide" an "iron oxide"? ++ Not sure. I did a very quick search in the archives and found several comments referring to the list that Zenith posted, but didn't find the entire list. Emery cloth, wire brushes made of steel, and ferrous oxide abrasives were mentioned as being "prohibited". I did find a reference to the issue that it was printed in, that being issue # 84, October of 1994. That date sounds too old as I began my aircraft in 1997 and the list showed up in one of my newsletter issues after that. Maybe one of the guys out there is good at looking things up.......... Fred ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:24 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: extra storage behind seat --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: extra storage behind seat > --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com > > After building the seat structure on my XL I find that there is quite a bit > of room behind the passenger seat under the luggage shelf. ( The pilot side has > the flap motor.) I was wondering if anyone thought about building a "trunk" > in this area to keep the small stuff concealed that you don't want in public > view? It looks like the back cushion would fold forward for access to this > compartment. Thanks > Jack Russell Clovis,CA > #5000 XL Jack, I'm building a 601hds and found adding a stowage area behind each seat a very worth while effort. I framed the periphery of each side between the rear spar, sides and center and added a hinged rear bottom that allows access for cable adjustments etc. and clearances for batteries that are just behind the rear spar on the right side. Images can be found on the website. www.macsmachine.com Large assembly/fuselage to wing. Larry McFarland ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:15 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Get scientific was Too many Zodiacs down! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 6/23/2003 11:41:16 AM Mountain Daylight Time, dgarrou@hunton.com writes: > > Doug > > p.s. No offense taken on the Doud thing. :) > > Peace...And on our first meeting I will buy the first few rounds of adult beverages. Ben Haas. N801BH. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:20 PM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Aha! I knew there had to be a good reason....I'm a new bilder with lots to learn. Thanks...Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" > > Yes, right up to the moment that the vibration induced friction wears a hole > through the tank!. The cork is an anti chafing mechanism. > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rockin Rim > Ranch, Inc. > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > Ray, > > Question is.......if you're going to ground the tank with a wire, why does > the tank have to be separated from the fuselage with cork? Wouldn't the tank > touching the fuselage be a good ground? > > Thanks...Dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray Montagne" > To: "Zenith List" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > > > > On 6/23/03 12:33 PM, "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > wrote: > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > > > > > > > Incidently, do you know why ZAC requires cork between the metal header > tank > > > and the fuselage? I thought all metal parts had to be grounded, > including > > > the fuel tank. When refueling, do you connect the grounding line from > the > > > FBO fuel pump to the headr tank, or to the aircraft itself? > > > > > > > Cork is also used on the wing tanks on the XL. The tanks include a tab to > > connect a grounding wire. > > > > > > Best Regards, Ray Montagne > > EAA: 697920 > > AOPA: 039409692 > > > > > =========================================================================== > > > > Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939, Jabiru 3300 > > Construction Log & Photos: > > Build Status: Rudder completed > > Elevator Completed > > Stabilizer Completed > > Flaps Completed > > Ailerons Completed > > Right Wing Under Completed > > Right Wing Tip Under Construction > > > > > =========================================================================== > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:15 PM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Thanks Ray. I'll be needing lots of help in the coming year since I'm a new builder. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Montagne" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > > > Ray, > > > > Question is.......if you're going to ground the tank with a wire, why does > > the tank have to be separated from the fuselage with cork? Wouldn't the tank > > touching the fuselage be a good ground? > > > > I wouldn't think that relying on mechanical contact would be a reliable form > of grounding. Acceleration forces encountered during flight might lead to > making and breaking the ground connection. The cork provides some padding > that allows a tighter fit to prevent the tank from moving around (it is > essentially a press fit and is not bolted in). It also prevents any > movement of the tank from wearing on the components that it comes in contact > with. The wire bonding will never break the ground path. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Best Regards, Ray Montagne > > =========================================================================== > > Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939, Jabiru 3300 > Construction Log & Photos: > Build Status: Rudder completed > Elevator Completed > Stabilizer Completed > Flaps Completed > Ailerons Completed > Right Wing Under Completed > Right Wing Tip Under Construction > > =========================================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:48 PM PST US From: Frank Stutzman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Ray Montagne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > > Any XL's headed to Arlington, WA? I'll be there, albeit in a Cessna. Would > like to talk to other builders and see some completed aircraft. Indeed, I'm in the same situation, although I am more interested in 701's and I'll be showing up in a Beech. DO NOT ARCHIVE Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:15 PM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Is there any reason you can't just cut off the "Y" completely, and have a sidestick, which is used on the Airbus? Seems as if control would be better with the pilot's arm on the armrest holding the stick. Just a thought. Dave 601HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Corriveau" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > > I have always thought I would like to do away with the "Y" stick > > on the 601 and since I ordered my RAC grip have been thinking > > of starting on this. Any pointers, ideas or guidence? Length or > > angle. I was looking at it yesterday and thought I needed to > > keep the same angle rearward as the "Y"stick. > > > > TIA > > I chopped the pax side of the 'Y' off before first flight - not planning any > dual training and the Y interferes with my access across the panel/lower > sidewall on the right. > > I still don't care for the pilot side of the Y as it tends to get in the way > of my inboard knew - but I am long-legged. I am seriously contemplating one > more 'chop' to remove the Y altogether and install a wooden grip with 1 > pitch-trim 'cap' switch. > > I don't care for the MAC grip with the small trim buttons - they are not > intuitive; not easy to find with the finger tips without accidently > trimming; and one of the aileron buttons tends to come to rest against my > kneecap when I'm not noticing it ... i.e. Hey? why is the aircraft > banking???? ;-) > > -- > Grant Corriveau > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:47 PM PST US From: Kurt Kingston Subject: RE: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kurt Kingston Ray, I got this today from the factory XL newsletter list: ZODIAC Enthusiasts: Next month we'll have the ZODIAC XL at the NW EAA Arlington fly-in (July 9-13, Arlington, Washington). Demo flights will be available (by appointment) at the fly-in. Detail: http://www.zenithair.com/events.htm O -----Original Message----- From: Ray Montagne [mailto:ac6qj@earthlink.net] Subject: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne Any XL's headed to Arlington, WA? I'll be there, albeit in a Cessna. Would like to talk to other builders and see some completed aircraft. DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Mitchell Instruments... [bcc][faked-from] From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Grant, Thanks! If you ever get the chance to take a photo, it would be much appreciated. I went ahead and left a message for Mitchell and hopefully they'll have a smaller mount for me. The guage didn't have one, and AC&S mentioned only 4 and up clusters. Can't wait to finish. Seems soooo close now. Don -----Original Message----- From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc@ca.inter.net] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mitchell Instruments... [bcc][faked-from] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > From: "Don Honabach" but since I have to custom make one, I was curios as to > what others have done. I installed the Mitchell fuel pressure gauge - maybe it's similar. It also had no flange, but as I recall there's a back-plate and a securing screw. I used L-angles to make a little 'tray'/mounting well that the gauge slides into and is secured at the back with the screw -- at least that's what I recall. Don't have my aircraft nearby to check or take photo. -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:50 PM PST US From: Kurt Kingston Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 float performance --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kurt Kingston Anyone familiar with what real life cruise speeds the 701 on floats can do with different engines? Thanks, Kurt ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Can any one recommend a good way of cutting a 4130 Steel Plate (1/8" thick)? I tried an abrasive saw, but didn't like the results or the heat generated. I've also talked to some local sheet metal shops and they mentioned that a normal sheer probably wouldn't handle the 4130 very well. Do I just need to find a cut-off type metal band saw or ? Thanks! Don Honabach PC Perfect, LLC 2740 S. Hardy Drive #1 Tempe, AZ 85282 480-966-0772 480-966-9304 fax ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:10 PM PST US From: "Jim Cullen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Cullen" Hi Don: I do this routinely on a small bandsaw -- a 14-inch Delta 3-wheel benchtop. The key lies in the blade and the blade speed. I use a 14-tpi bimetallic blade. Standard blades won't cut it -- they'll just get dull in a hurry. Keep the blade speed fairly slow. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Honabach" Subject: Zenith-List: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" > > Can any one recommend a good way of cutting a 4130 Steel Plate (1/8" > thick)? I tried an abrasive saw, but didn't like the results or the heat > generated. I've also talked to some local sheet metal shops and they > mentioned that a normal sheer probably wouldn't handle the 4130 very > well. Do I just need to find a cut-off type metal band saw or ? > > Thanks! > > Don Honabach > PC Perfect, LLC > 2740 S. Hardy Drive #1 > Tempe, AZ 85282 > 480-966-0772 > 480-966-9304 fax > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:23 PM PST US From: "Jackie B. Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jackie B. Johnson" My two cents worth...I chopped the "y" and used the MAC handle and have had no troubles with the ? tiny trim" buttons..works great in my opinion..never did understand the reason for "y", but I guess you couled get use to anything if you wish too.. Jackie N5JZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Corriveau" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > > I have always thought I would like to do away with the "Y" stick > > on the 601 and since I ordered my RAC grip have been thinking > > of starting on this. Any pointers, ideas or guidence? Length or > > angle. I was looking at it yesterday and thought I needed to > > keep the same angle rearward as the "Y"stick. > > > > TIA > > I chopped the pax side of the 'Y' off before first flight - not planning any > dual training and the Y interferes with my access across the panel/lower > sidewall on the right. > > I still don't care for the pilot side of the Y as it tends to get in the way > of my inboard knew - but I am long-legged. I am seriously contemplating one > more 'chop' to remove the Y altogether and install a wooden grip with 1 > pitch-trim 'cap' switch. > > I don't care for the MAC grip with the small trim buttons - they are not > intuitive; not easy to find with the finger tips without accidently > trimming; and one of the aileron buttons tends to come to rest against my > kneecap when I'm not noticing it ... i.e. Hey? why is the aircraft > banking???? ;-) > > -- > Grant Corriveau > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:38 PM PST US From: Pwalsh4539@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com Dave, I have the 601/Rotax 912 w/ 16 gallon header tank. Safer in terms of fuel flow. Worse in terms of crashworthiness. Simpler in terms of fuel system. Less room behind panel for instruments...in fact it is not practical or maybe even possible for vacuum instruments. I had a forced landing a while back, and one thing on my mind was all that fuel in my lap. Then again, there was a little gravity flow with the header tank, perhaps that is what kept her sputtering along just enough for me to keep airspeed up for those few critical seconds. In other words, it is simply your call, there are plenty of arguments both pro and con. I guess simplicity is a big one, though. Happy building and good luck. Patrick Walsh 601 HD ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:59 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Jim, Thanks - I'll give it a try. Regards, Don -----Original Message----- From: Jim Cullen [mailto:flyingcrownranch@lvcm.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Cullen" --> Hi Don: I do this routinely on a small bandsaw -- a 14-inch Delta 3-wheel benchtop. The key lies in the blade and the blade speed. I use a 14-tpi bimetallic blade. Standard blades won't cut it -- they'll just get dull in a hurry. Keep the blade speed fairly slow. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Honabach" Subject: Zenith-List: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" > > Can any one recommend a good way of cutting a 4130 Steel Plate (1/8" > thick)? I tried an abrasive saw, but didn't like the results or the > heat generated. I've also talked to some local sheet metal shops and > they mentioned that a normal sheer probably wouldn't handle the 4130 > very well. Do I just need to find a cut-off type metal band saw or ? > > Thanks! > > Don Honabach > PC Perfect, LLC > 2740 S. Hardy Drive #1 > Tempe, AZ 85282 > 480-966-0772 > 480-966-9304 fax > > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 6/23/03 3:30 PM, "Kurt Kingston" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kurt Kingston > > Ray, I got this today from the factory XL newsletter list: > > ZODIAC Enthusiasts: > Next month we'll have the ZODIAC XL at the NW EAA Arlington fly-in > (July 9-13, Arlington, Washington). Demo flights will be available (by > appointment) at the fly-in. Detail: http://www.zenithair.com/events.htm > > O Thanks! I've been in communication with the factory and am trying to schedule a demo ride. I flew down to Copperstate last year for the same purpose, just prior to purchasing the XL kit, but air traffic conditions didn't allow for a demo flight in the short time I was there. Still building "Flight Unseen" and am really looking forward to a factory demo... Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Completed Right Wing Tip Under Construction =========================================================================== DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:49 PM PST US From: Pwalsh4539@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com Ground the fuel tank to the airframe!! ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:24 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S Hard Starting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" One last try, Phil. You seem to have done good diagnostic work. Is the key on the crankshaft loose, letting the timing wander on cranking? Is it possible you have a leak from one plug wire (cylinder) to another, causing the kickback? Can't think of anything else! Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 6/23/03 4:26 PM, "Pwalsh4539@aol.com" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com > > Ground the fuel tank to the airframe!! > AMEN! DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Completed Right Wing Tip Under Construction =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:59 PM PST US From: Pwalsh4539@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com Seems to me that we don't want that aluminum tank vibrating and rubbing against the aluminum firewall...or top skin. ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:10 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank (Safety concern) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Gasoline is flamable... taking this in account,where ever you install the tank(s) there is always danger of fire, any gasoline in the grass with a short circuit can ignite. Is one in a million to be so lucky to crush in the middle of 2 trees exactly the gap of your fuselage, so the gas tanks stay back with the wings. The best thing is to aboid bad weather, in case of engine failure, fly the airplane all the way down, if it falied, will not start, you just will loose valuave time (and altitude), in the mean time close the gasoline valve, shut the master switch, and do the best your training and practice will show your insticts. Saludos Gary Gower. PS. When ever you dont have a special place to go, instead of just flying around, practice emergency landings with and wthout engine. This is safer than remote gasoline tanks. GG --- Paul Sharpe wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Sharpe" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > Subject: Zenith-List: Header tank > > > > I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon > header tank > behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to eliminate this > tank, and > install tanks in both wing lockers instead? Is the header tank a safe > system? > > > I had concerns before building my 601 because of some nasty > accidents > several years ago, so I opted for a leading edge tank in each wing, > each > with it's own Facet fuel pump, and no header tank. I'm glad I did, > and > would do it again if I built another 601. > > Paul Sharpe > C-IABP / CH601HD > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:41 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 4130 Steel Plate - Cutting... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Is the heat generated by the cutting wheel really an issue? I'm asking because when I asked my weldor about heating the metal during welding or forming, he told me that there is no problem if you allow it to cool down by itself (he calls this "normalizing". Normalized 4130 is called 4130N. He said that if you sink the metal in the water to cool it rapidly, then it becomes "tempered". So I think the concern is not the same as with 6061-T6 which would loose its T6 property if heated. Michel do not archive as these are words from a mostly ignorant of the subject at hand. --- Don Honabach wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" > > > Can any one recommend a good way of cutting a 4130 > Steel Plate (1/8" > thick)? I tried an abrasive saw, but didn't like the > results or the heat > generated. I've also talked to some local sheet > metal shops and they > mentioned that a normal sheer probably wouldn't > handle the 4130 very > well. Do I just need to find a cut-off type metal > band saw or ? ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:03 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: extra storage behind seat --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien I've seen this not yet on XLs, but on HD and HDSs. See this one: http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp00267.jpg The builder made a long compartment that allows him to bring pairs of skis. Oh... it may take a while to figure the picture out... it's tilted on the right side (top is on the right). On left (bottom), this is the reclined seat cover. Another person I know made small compartments behind each of the two seats. It's usefull for storing headsets, lunch or other things you don't want to leave on the shelve. See: http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/pprjgk4.jpg For my part, I elected not to do this. The "behind the seat" section is my rear electrical bay where the master solenoids, battery bus fuse blocs, autopilot servo, ELT and Strobe power supply are positioned. See: http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp01505.jpg http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp01218.jpg http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp01144.jpg I will also install my transponder antenna in that area. Finally, all turnbuckles for adjusting the tension of elevator, rudder and ailerons cables are in that area: http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp01463.jpg Michel > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com I was wondering if anyone thought > about building a > "trunk" > > in this area to keep the small stuff concealed > that you don't want in > public > > view? I ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:30 PM PST US From: "Philip Polstra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" My tank didn't rupture that I'm aware in my crash last week. The gas all leaked out over the course of several hours after the accident. I think it was because the gascolator was sheared off and/or fuel lines breached by the crash. This would have been true for wing tanks as well. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." I was wondering if anyone has had concerns about the 16-gallon header tank behind the instrument panel. Would it be better to eliminate this tank, and install tanks in both wing lockers instead? Is the header tank a safe system? ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:59 PM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Thanks, Patrick. Maybe the best bet is to install another fuel shutoff valve connected to a drain line through the floor, so the fuel can be dumped in flight after an engine failure. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com > > Dave, > I have the 601/Rotax 912 w/ 16 gallon header tank. Safer in terms of fuel > flow. Worse in terms of crashworthiness. Simpler in terms of fuel system. Less > room behind panel for instruments...in fact it is not practical or maybe even > possible for vacuum instruments. I had a forced landing a while back, and one > thing on my mind was all that fuel in my lap. Then again, there was a little > gravity flow with the header tank, perhaps that is what kept her sputtering > along just enough for me to keep airspeed up for those few critical seconds. > In other words, it is simply your call, there are plenty of arguments both > pro and con. I guess simplicity is a big one, though. > Happy building and good luck. > Patrick Walsh > 601 HD > > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:45 PM PST US From: Winston Ellis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington --> Zenith-List message posted by: Winston Ellis > I am building a 701 and am planning on being at Arlington. We should try and > have a 701 "get together." Maybe this year there will be a real 701 there! DO NOT ARCHIVE Winston Ellis Ketchum, Idaho CH701/Suzuki > Indeed, I'm in the same situation, although I am more interested in 701's > and I'll be showing up in a Beech. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Frank Stutzman > Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" > Hood River, OR > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:58 PM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:35:34 -0400 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" > Is the header tank a safe system? Nope..........!!!!!! John W. Tarabocchia Very strong reaction. Six exclamation points!!!!!! Is this opinion or based on factual evidence? May we have the facts please. Regards jeff do not archive ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:20 PM PST US From: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com In a message dated 6/23/2003 9:36:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, zodiacjeff@msn.com writes: > > Is the header tank a safe system? > > Nope..........!!!!!! > John W. Tarabocchia > > Very strong reaction. Six exclamation points!!!!!! > > Is this opinion or based on factual evidence? May we have the facts > please. > > Regards jeff > > do not archive > Simply my opinion....If you really need me to clarify. I have visions of a 16 or 8 gallon fuel tank rupturing on impact. Then being ignited by an electrical wire tearing loose behind the panel. All this while the fuel is pouring onto ones lap (Isn't this how napalm works). While one is trying to unfasten ones seat belt and trying to get the canopy open, ones cloths and skin are melting. If one does make it out alive, one may wish they didn't. Again this is only one pilots opinion... John W. Tarabocchia http://www.hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/ N6042T 100hrs. flown ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:44 PM PST US From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD Joy Stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com In a message dated 6/23/03 7:12:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zjohnson@ucnsb.net writes: > My two cents worth...I chopped the "y" and used the MAC handle and have had > no troubles with the ? tiny trim" buttons..works great in my opinion..never > did understand the reason for "y", but I guess you couled get use to > anything if you wish too.. > Jackie N5JZ > Did you add anything to the stick or just mounted the grip to what was left ? Sal Capra Lakeland, FL My Home Page http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:27 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien I keep a news paper picture in my garage to remind me about safety. This is the one of that plane that had bagage compartment open in flight. The plane stalled above the ground and did a hard landing (it was not referred to as a crash, even though the G load may have exceeded 9 Gs). Header tank ruptured and plane (cabin) got in flame. I decided right at that moment that I did not want a fuel reservoir above my legs. Michel --- ZodiacBuilder@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > ZodiacBuilder@aol.com > > In a message dated 6/23/2003 9:36:01 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > zodiacjeff@msn.com writes: > > > > > Is the header tank a safe system? > > > > Nope..........!!!!!! > > John W. Tarabocchia > > > > Very strong reaction. Six exclamation > points!!!!!! > > > > Is this opinion or based on factual evidence? > May we have the facts > > please. > > > > Regards jeff > > > > do not archive > > > > Simply my opinion....If you really need me to > clarify. > > I have visions of a 16 or 8 gallon fuel tank > rupturing on impact. Then being > ignited by an electrical wire tearing loose behind > the panel. All this while > the fuel is pouring onto ones lap (Isn't this how > napalm works). While one > is trying to unfasten ones seat belt and trying to > get the canopy open, ones > cloths and skin are melting. If one does make it > out alive, one may wish they > didn't. > > Again this is only one pilots opinion... > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:20 PM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Ray: I was able to fly at my rudder building session at the ZAC factory. You will be pleasantly surprised at how nice the plane flies. It was tight and handled well. I was a bit surprised at how nice the finished product looked and flew. You will enjoy the demo ride (when you get the chance). You are progressing well - thanks for all the pictures on your web site. I enjoy looking at them from time to time. Scott Laughlin 601XL Plans builder www.cooknwithgas.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ray Montagne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 6/23/03 3:30 PM, "Kurt Kingston" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kurt Kingston > > Ray, I got this today from the factory XL newsletter list: > > ZODIAC Enthusiasts: > Next month we'll have the ZODIAC XL at the NW EAA Arlington fly-in > (July 9-13, Arlington, Washington). Demo flights will be available (by > appointment) at the fly-in. Detail: http://www.zenithair.com/events.htm > > O Thanks! I've been in communication with the factory and am trying to schedule a demo ride. I flew down to Copperstate last year for the same purpose, just prior to purchasing the XL kit, but air traffic conditions didn't allow for a demo flight in the short time I was there. Still building "Flight Unseen" and am really looking forward to a factory demo... Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Completed Right Wing Tip Under Construction =========================================================================== DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: KAWO - Arlington From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 6/23/03 8:01 PM, "Scott Laughlin" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" > > Ray: > > It was tight and > handled well. I was a bit surprised at how nice the finished product looked > and flew. > Hi Scott, Thanks for the flight evaluation. I've seen several. Including an absolutely fantastic piece of workmanship at RIU last time I flew in to visit my parents. Looking forward to a ride! Thanks for the website comments too! DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Completed Right Wing Tip Under Construction =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:50 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Cork is insulation from vibration. The tanks are grounded to the plane by a cable riveted to a tab in the side of the tank (701). Saludos Gary Gower. --- "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > Thanks for the info, Mark. Sounds like your system works fairly well. > > Incidently, do you know why ZAC requires cork between the metal > header tank > and the fuselage? I thought all metal parts had to be grounded, > including > the fuel tank. When refueling, do you connect the grounding line from > the > FBO fuel pump to the headr tank, or to the aircraft itself? > > Thanks....Dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark A. Wood" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" > > > > > Dave > > > > I have a shut off on the line from each tank as it comes in from > the > > wing tank (these will both stay open in normal use). They T into a > > single Facet fuel pump which pumps to the header. From the header I > > have a overflow / return line which returns to my right wing tank. > > Also from the header it is gravity feed to the gascolator and then > > the Aero-Carb carburetor by Sonex. This carburetor uses very low > fuel > > pressure, but I would assume that the standard carb on my O-200 > would > > also work gravity feed on this system. > > > > This is not yet a tested system. I hope to have the air duct work > in > > my cowl done in the next two weeks and will then be ready to fire > it > > up for the first time, and give it a test. > > > > Mark > > > > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > > > > > > >Thanks Mark. I was planning on installing a Facet fuel pump in > series or > > >parallel as a backup. How is your system set up? Do you feed your > header > > >tank by pumping fuel ito it from the wing tanks? Or do all tanks > feed the > > >gascolator through a fuel selector switch? > > > > > >Dave > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Mark A. Wood" > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > > > > > > > -- > > Mark Wood > > Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team > > Center on Disability and Community Inclusion > > University of Vermont > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:50 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower insulation from vibration, also to prevent any movement betwen the tank and the wing, like using a file... will eventualy leak fuel. Saludos Gary Gower --- "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > Ray, > > Question is.......if you're going to ground the tank with a wire, why > does > the tank have to be separated from the fuselage with cork? Wouldn't > the tank > touching the fuselage be a good ground? > > Thanks...Dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray Montagne" > To: "Zenith List" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > > > > > On 6/23/03 12:33 PM, "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > wrote: > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > > > > > > > Incidently, do you know why ZAC requires cork between the metal > header > tank > > > and the fuselage? I thought all metal parts had to be grounded, > including > > > the fuel tank. When refueling, do you connect the grounding line > from > the > > > FBO fuel pump to the headr tank, or to the aircraft itself? > > > > > > > Cork is also used on the wing tanks on the XL. The tanks include a > tab to > > connect a grounding wire. > > > > > > Best Regards, Ray Montagne > > EAA: 697920 > > AOPA: 039409692 > > > > > =========================================================================== > > > > Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939, Jabiru 3300 > > Construction Log & Photos: > > > Build Status: Rudder completed > > Elevator Completed > > Stabilizer Completed > > Flaps Completed > > Ailerons Completed > > Right Wing Under Completed > > Right Wing Tip Under Construction > > > > > =========================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:44 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Concentrate in flying the plane down. Once in the correct glide path and the "target" landing space secured, shut the fuel valve, switch off the master and as a insurance, a little prayer. Practice to find the position of both (master and gas valve) without looking, like when (on the road) we change from main tank to reserve in the motorcycle. Saludos Gary Gower --- "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > > Thanks, Patrick. Maybe the best bet is to install another fuel > shutoff valve > connected to a drain line through the floor, so the fuel can be > dumped in > flight after an engine failure. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com > > > > Dave, > > I have the 601/Rotax 912 w/ 16 gallon header tank. Safer in terms > of fuel > > flow. Worse in terms of crashworthiness. Simpler in terms of fuel > system. > Less > > room behind panel for instruments...in fact it is not practical or > maybe > even > > possible for vacuum instruments. I had a forced landing a while > back, and > one > > thing on my mind was all that fuel in my lap. Then again, there was > a > little > > gravity flow with the header tank, perhaps that is what kept her > sputtering > > along just enough for me to keep airspeed up for those few critical > seconds. > > In other words, it is simply your call, there are plenty of > arguments > both > > pro and con. I guess simplicity is a big one, though. > > Happy building and good luck. > > Patrick Walsh > > 601 HD > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:39 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header tank (Murphy's law?) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower --- ZodiacBuilder@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com > > In a message dated 6/23/2003 9:36:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, > zodiacjeff@msn.com writes: > > > > > Is the header tank a safe system? > > > > Nope..........!!!!!! > > John W. Tarabocchia > > > > Very strong reaction. Six exclamation points!!!!!! > > > > Is this opinion or based on factual evidence? May we have the > facts > > please. > > > > Regards jeff > > > > do not archive > > > > Simply my opinion....If you really need me to clarify. > > I have visions of a 16 or 8 gallon fuel tank rupturing on impact. > Then being > ignited by an electrical wire tearing loose behind the panel. All > this while > the fuel is pouring onto ones lap (Isn't this how napalm works). > While one > is trying to unfasten ones seat belt and trying to get the canopy > open, ones > cloths and skin are melting. If one does make it out alive, one may > wish they > didn't. > > Again this is only one pilots opinion... > > > John W. Tarabocchia > http://www.hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/ > > N6042T 100hrs. flown > In the book "Gift of Wings" by Richard Back, there is a part where he mentions something like this: "Take care of what you think or wish, because some day you will get it" "if you want a plane you will own one some day" not a quote, just what I remember, great book. In the event of a "regular impact" crash landing, hard enough to brake the gas tanks (also legs broken maybe), the posibility of the plane resting a little in one side are big (front wheel and one side landing gear colapse). So we will also have gasoline driping fron the higher wing tank to the neck (in a high wing plane), or in the kidneys area (in a low wing plane)... or all over the place in the floor (in both cases). If we manage to shut the master, and dont land in rocks or pavement (metal friction), the chances of fire are low... I HOPE. Saludos Gary Gower. Why dont we think a little positive from now on? Lots of pilots never crash in their lives, only a hand full of the forced landing one's wont survive. Keep calm and react as trained. __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com