---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/30/03: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:44 AM - Re: Stratus cooling data (Don Gordon) 2. 04:14 AM - Re: Stratus cooling data (Michel Therrien) 3. 07:02 AM - 601XL Nose Skins (Gig) 4. 07:19 AM - Re: 601XL Nose Skins (Benford2@aol.com) 5. 07:21 AM - Re: 601XL Nose Skins (Frank Jones) 6. 08:13 AM - Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) 7. 10:19 AM - Re: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in (Michael Stempf) 8. 11:07 AM - Re: 601XL Nose Skins (Gig) 9. 11:34 AM - Re: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) 10. 01:49 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Skins (H. Robert Schoenberger) 11. 02:29 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Skins (Gary Gower) 12. 04:37 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Skins (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com) 13. 04:57 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Skins (Jeff & Marcia Davidson) 14. 05:39 PM - Re: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in (Ray Montagne) 15. 07:46 PM - Re: Instrument panel labels (Clyde D Ehlers) 16. 08:57 PM - Re: 601XL Nose Skins (Chuck Deiterich) 17. 09:12 PM - Re: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in (Bruce Bockius) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:20 AM PST US From: Don Gordon Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus cooling data --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Gordon Has anyone got any photo's of there radiator installations for the list to comment on posibly with ideas or other wise ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus cooling data > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "billvt@together.net" > > Don, > > I do not have a CHT, only oil and water temps. > > Bill > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" > > Hi Bill. > What was your CHT on that trip? Maybe I am expecting too much. My Cht > stays 205 to 210 and the oil never above 190. I don't have water temp > gauge. Don Walker > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:14 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus cooling data --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Here are three alternative ways I know of radiator installation that are working (flying) with success: 1. Two radiators mounted on each side of the engine compartment with appropriate ducting: http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby/misc/dcp01586.jpg Take note that the oil cooler is no longer mounted in front of the radiator. The builder moved it against the firewall and it has a separate NACA air inlet now. 2. VW radiator mounted between the firewall and the engine. In fact, I know two planes flying like this and this is the approach I took for my own installation. http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby/misc/dcp01599.jpg In this configuration, it is important that the radiator is mounted on a sealed box so that all air coming in the cowling goes through the radiator before exiting underneath the aircraft. 3. VW radiator mounted behind the passenger seats. http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/pprjgm7.jpg Sorry not to have good pictures of this, but in this installation, there are two scoops underneath the fuselage that grab air, bring it through the radiator and the air exits on both sides of the fuselage. The computer fans that you see on the picture have been replaced by a larger radiator fan activated by a thermosensor. This allows sufficient cooling during ground operation. Michel --- Don Gordon wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Gordon > > > Has anyone got any photo's of there radiator > installations for the list to > comment on > posibly with ideas or other wise ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:10 AM PST US From: Gig Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig I was installing nose skins this weekend on what someone aptly listed as the hard wing, the first one, which in my case is the right wing. Somehow I seemed to have misread the instructions and drilled and clecoed the top side first. I didn't catch this until I sat down to read ahead an realized the description for attaching the other side was describing the side I had just done. Is there anything I need to do or look out for as I continue the building process because of this? Here's a photo of progress to this point. http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR/html/progress.html Also, since the building manual seems to jusmp around becuase we start getting into options. I'd like some guidance on what work order to take from here. I'm installing LE tanks and baggage lockers (to be used as baggage not fuel) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:28 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 6/30/2003 8:02:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time, wr.giacona@cox-internet.com writes: > > > I was installing nose skins this weekend on what someone aptly listed as > the hard wing, the first one, which in my case is the right wing. > > Somehow I seemed to have misread the instructions and drilled and > clecoed the top side first. I didn't catch this until I sat down to read > ahead an realized the description for attaching the other side was > describing the side I had just done. > > Is there anything I need to do or look out for as I continue the > building process because of this? Here's a photo of progress to this point. > > http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR/html/progress.html > > Also, since the building manual seems to jusmp around becuase we start > getting into options. I'd like some guidance on what work order to take > from here. > > I'm installing LE tanks and baggage lockers (to be used as baggage not fuel) > > Welcome to the Zenith builders nightmare......... Those manuals are in need of an overhaul.. But, I still love my 801 and the guys and girls at ZAC are great.. Ben Haas N801BH. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:14 AM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" I think the process is reversible. However, the big issue is in getting the wing twist set correctly. The final wing twist is set by supporting blocks under each rear rib. These must be set correctly when drilling into the main spar (which you have already done on top). In order to reverse the process (ie. Do the top first) you'll need to find a way to accurately set this twist. ______________________ Frank Jones 601 XL C-GYXQ ______________________ -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig I was installing nose skins this weekend on what someone aptly listed as the hard wing, the first one, which in my case is the right wing. Somehow I seemed to have misread the instructions and drilled and clecoed the top side first. I didn't catch this until I sat down to read ahead an realized the description for attaching the other side was describing the side I had just done. Is there anything I need to do or look out for as I continue the building process because of this? Here's a photo of progress to this point. http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR/html/progress.html Also, since the building manual seems to jusmp around becuase we start getting into options. I'd like some guidance on what work order to take from here. I'm installing LE tanks and baggage lockers (to be used as baggage not fuel) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:34 AM PST US From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Subject: Zenith-List: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Hello All, I just spent Saturday June 28th at the Fly-In in Longmont, CO. What a great day, a little warm but fantastic flying weather. There were several Vans RVs around, a couple of Sonex's, Cubs, RANS, and various others, but I didn't see any Zenith's there, which kind-of was a bummer, since I was really wanting to talk to some Zenith builders face to face. Oh well, I guess I need to get busy so that I can support Zenith in Longmont next year. I am getting more and more convened about using a Jabiru 3300 for my engine of choice, although I still live at a high altitude I might end up using the Rotax 914 (turbo). Although the Jabiru has more h.p., the turbo helps keep it's h.p. at altitude, and you don not have to derate the Rotax as much at altitude. Keep flying, and to all with web sites, thanks for your hard work and information that I am using and finding helpful. Keith <>< -- ************************************* Keith Ashcraft N 38 59.5014' W 105 08.0951' 9100' CH701 plans/kit tail 90% keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:06 AM PST US From: "Michael Stempf" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Stempf" Have not heard any commentary on the Rotex 914 before - is it common at all in the Zenith aircrafts? Any other benefits to going with that engine over the 912s? Thanks for the help, Michael Stempf 601XL (working on the wings) N-4XL (Reserved) -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Keith -AES Subject: Zenith-List: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Hello All, I just spent Saturday June 28th at the Fly-In in Longmont, CO. What a great day, a little warm but fantastic flying weather. There were several Vans RVs around, a couple of Sonex's, Cubs, RANS, and various others, but I didn't see any Zenith's there, which kind-of was a bummer, since I was really wanting to talk to some Zenith builders face to face. Oh well, I guess I need to get busy so that I can support Zenith in Longmont next year. I am getting more and more convened about using a Jabiru 3300 for my engine of choice, although I still live at a high altitude I might end up using the Rotax 914 (turbo). Although the Jabiru has more h.p., the turbo helps keep it's h.p. at altitude, and you don not have to derate the Rotax as much at altitude. Keep flying, and to all with web sites, thanks for your hard work and information that I am using and finding helpful. Keith <>< -- ************************************* Keith Ashcraft N 38 59.5014' W 105 08.0951' 9100' CH701 plans/kit tail 90% keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:50 AM PST US From: Gig Subject: Zenith-List: re: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig The twist should be correct. It was when the uper and lower rear skins were placed and they were never removed before the nose skin was installed. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" I think the process is reversible. However, the big issue is in getting the wing twist set correctly. The final wing twist is set by supporting blocks under each rear rib. These must be set correctly when drilling into the main spar (which you have already done on top). In order to reverse the process (ie. Do the top first) you'll need to find a way to accurately set this twist. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:34:12 AM PST US From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Michael, 914 approx. 115hp turbocharged (1 min. duration), 100hp normal standard config weight approx. 154lbs. (70kg). 912S approx. max 100hp. standard config. weight approx. 134lbs. (64kg) Although you have to de-rate the hp for higher altitude (or any altitude), the turbocharger helps when the air gets thin. I am not exactly sure what the rate is, but it is a couple percent for every 1000 feet above sea level. A pilot here in Colorado flys a CH701 with the 914, and he says he is very pleased with it. Here is a link to his information. http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/7-914.html Cheers Keith ************************************* Keith Ashcraft N 38 59.5014' W 105 08.0951' Alt. 9100' CH701 plans/kit -- tail 90% keith.ashcraft@itt.com Michael Stempf wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Stempf" Have not heard any commentary on the Rotex 914 before - is it common at all in the Zenith aircrafts? Any other benefits to going with that engine over the 912s? Thanks for the help, Michael Stempf 601XL (working on the wings) N-4XL (Reserved) -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Keith -AES Subject: Zenith-List: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Hello All, I just spent Saturday June 28th at the Fly-In in Longmont, CO. What a great day, a little warm but fantastic flying weather. There were several Vans RVs around, a couple of Sonex's, Cubs, RANS, and various others, but I didn't see any Zenith's there, which kind-of was a bummer, since I was really wanting to talk to some Zenith builders face to face. Oh well, I guess I need to get busy so that I can support Zenith in Longmont next year. I am getting more and more convened about using a Jabiru 3300 for my engine of choice, although I still live at a high altitude I might end up using the Rotax 914 (turbo). Although the Jabiru has more h.p., the turbo helps keep it's h.p. at altitude, and you don not have to derate the Rotax as much at altitude. ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:24 PM PST US From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" What wing twist? Is this 601 specific. I don't recall reading anything about wing twist in the 701 plans or photo manual other than to keep it very level, but sometimes I miss things. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail completed and right wing 70%. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > I think the process is reversible. However, the big issue is in getting > the wing twist set correctly. The final wing twist is set by supporting > blocks under each rear rib. These must be set correctly when drilling > into the main spar (which you have already done on top). In order to > reverse the process (ie. Do the top first) you'll need to find a way to > accurately set this twist. > > ______________________ > Frank Jones > 601 XL > C-GYXQ > ______________________ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig > > > I was installing nose skins this weekend on what someone aptly listed as > > the hard wing, the first one, which in my case is the right wing. > > Somehow I seemed to have misread the instructions and drilled and > clecoed the top side first. I didn't catch this until I sat down to read > > ahead an realized the description for attaching the other side was > describing the side I had just done. > > Is there anything I need to do or look out for as I continue the > building process because of this? Here's a photo of progress to this > point. > > http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR/html/progress.html > > Also, since the building manual seems to jusmp around becuase we start > getting into options. I'd like some guidance on what work order to take > from here. > > I'm installing LE tanks and baggage lockers (to be used as baggage not > fuel) > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:44 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hap, No, Has to be for the 601 series (or the XL only), the washout of the 701 is with the flaperons (page 7-A-2). The 701 wing is builded flat in the table. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. --- "H. Robert Schoenberger" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" > > > What wing twist? Is this 601 specific. I don't recall reading > anything > about wing twist in the 701 plans or photo manual other than to keep > it very > level, but sometimes I miss things. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail > completed and > right wing 70%. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Jones" > To: > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > > > > I think the process is reversible. However, the big issue is in > getting > > the wing twist set correctly. The final wing twist is set by > supporting > > blocks under each rear rib. These must be set correctly when > drilling > > into the main spar (which you have already done on top). In order > to > > reverse the process (ie. Do the top first) you'll need to find a > way to > > accurately set this twist. > > > > ______________________ > > Frank Jones > > 601 XL > > C-GYXQ > > ______________________ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig > > > > > > > I was installing nose skins this weekend on what someone aptly > listed as > > > > the hard wing, the first one, which in my case is the right wing. > > > > Somehow I seemed to have misread the instructions and drilled and > > clecoed the top side first. I didn't catch this until I sat down to > read > > > > ahead an realized the description for attaching the other side was > > describing the side I had just done. > > > > Is there anything I need to do or look out for as I continue the > > building process because of this? Here's a photo of progress to > this > > point. > > > > http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR/html/progress.html > > > > Also, since the building manual seems to jusmp around becuase we > start > > getting into options. I'd like some guidance on what work order to > take > > from here. > > > > I'm installing LE tanks and baggage lockers (to be used as baggage > not > > fuel) > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:40 PM PST US From: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com In a message dated 6/30/2003 10:21:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, fjones@sympatico.ca writes: > you'll need to find a way to > accurately set this twist. > The twist is already set when you rivet the top and bottom skins. The nose skin has no part in adjusting the twist. The nose skin is a big contributer to wing stiffness John W. Tarabocchia http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:13 PM PST US From: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" For the 601 HD, the wing has no twist. The twist is in the ailerons only. Jeff Davidson ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 6/30/03 11:32 AM, "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" wrote: Also consider that you're going to have more heat under the cowl with the turbo... DO NOT ACHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Under Completed Right Wing Tip Under Construction =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument panel labels From: Clyde D Ehlers --> Zenith-List message posted by: Clyde D Ehlers HI: George There are several ways to it.One is make screen Prints in Vinal or polesteir , Or go to a drafting supply and get indevegewell lettering or stationary supply store, or Make overlay panels to put over with lights. It all depends how Professional you wont to make it. I did this for a living a will in an Instrument shop 41 Years ai am retired now And thinkings about for my airplane # 25 CH 200/300 type . Clyde D. Ehlers On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Michel Therrien writes: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > > I plan on doing like shown on this page: > http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/panel2.html > > Michel > > --- George Swinford wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" > > > > > > I am looking for a neat way to label the switches > > and circuit breakers on my instrument panel. The > > panel will be finished with a flat tan paint. Black > > lettering on the tan may not show up well. > > Suggestions appreciated. > > > > George Swinford > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:33 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Hap, No wing twist in 701. The offset outer flaperon halves provide the needed washout (outboard part of wing has lower angle of attack thus stalls last thus keeping roll control until full stall). Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: H. Robert Schoenberger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Nose Skins > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" > > What wing twist? Is this 601 specific. I don't recall reading anything > about wing twist in the 701 plans or photo manual other than to keep it very > level, but sometimes I miss things. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail completed and > right wing 70%. > ----- Original Message ----- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:50 PM PST US From: Bruce Bockius Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rocky Mountain EAA Fly-in --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bruce Bockius Ashcraft, Keith -AES wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" > >There were several Vans RVs around, a couple of Sonex's, Cubs, RANS, and >various others, but I didn't see any Zenith's there, which kind-of was a >bummer, since I was really wanting to talk to some Zenith builders face >to face. Oh well, I guess I need to get busy so that I can support >Zenith in Longmont next year. > > Hi Keith, To bad you weren't there Sunday, I flew my 601HD in. Maybe we can get together in the future. -Bruce/601HD/Stratus/TDO/375hrs ********************************* Bruce Bockius Black Forest, CO, USA bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac