Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:36 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Bryan Martin)
2. 02:37 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Bryan Martin)
3. 02:47 AM - Re: Wing Tanks (Bryan Martin)
4. 03:34 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Philip Polstra)
5. 05:39 AM - Matco Intensifiers (Dave Alberti)
6. 05:55 AM - Re: XL: Gap between fuel tank and top nose skin (Benford2@aol.com)
7. 06:32 AM - Radiator placement EA81 (Chris Weber)
8. 06:55 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Don Walker)
9. 07:30 AM - Re: Matco Intensifiers (Don Honabach)
10. 07:47 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (John Karnes)
11. 08:01 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Don Walker)
12. 08:34 AM - Re: Radiator placement (Pinneo, George)
13. 09:09 AM - Re: Radiator placement EA81 (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
14. 09:15 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
15. 09:41 AM - Re: XL: Gap between fuel tank and top nose skin (Leo J. Corbalis)
16. 11:18 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Ramperf@aol.com)
17. 11:41 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Don Walker)
18. 12:16 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Don Honabach)
19. 12:35 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Carlos Sa)
20. 12:37 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
21. 12:55 PM - Re: Wing Tanks (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
22. 12:59 PM - litigation (Jeff Small)
23. 01:41 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Don Walker)
24. 01:58 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Gayla Lemley)
25. 02:27 PM - Rotax 912 CHT probe (Thilo Kind)
26. 02:41 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Larry McFarland)
27. 02:46 PM - Re: Matco Intensifiers (Cleone Markwell)
28. 02:51 PM - Re: Matco Intensifiers (Larry McFarland)
29. 04:22 PM - Non-Retracting amfibian floats....? (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com)
30. 04:34 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Philip Polstra)
31. 04:45 PM - Re: litigation (Philip Polstra)
32. 04:51 PM - Re: Matco Intensifiers (Peter Dunning)
33. 05:12 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
34. 05:26 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Jackie B. Johnson)
35. 05:36 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Gary Gower)
36. 05:44 PM - Re: Wing Tanks/ finger screens (Fred Poor)
37. 05:48 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Gary Gower)
38. 06:00 PM - Re: litigation (Gary Gower)
39. 06:28 PM - Re: Wing Tanks (Ray Montagne)
40. 06:38 PM - Re: litigation (Philip Polstra)
41. 07:08 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (Ramperf@aol.com)
42. 07:15 PM - Re: litigation (Steve Danielson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The muffler I got from Mykal sits much higher than the one you have. Mine
sits tucked in between the oil pan and the nose gear lower bearing. In fact,
it sits so close to the plastic bearing that I dented in the rear side for
more clearance and wrapped muffler with what looks like the same stuff you
used. I don't have mine flying yet but I don't think my muffler blocks the
flow to the radiator like yours does.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
on 7/2/03 12:20 AM, John Karnes at jpkarnes@charter.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
>
> I can't get out of the pattern because of cooling problems. I barely climb
> to 2000' and the temp reaches 230 deg. My muffler hangs in front of the rad
> and I think that might be one problem. Would you guys mind looking at my
> muffler and telling me if you have a similar setup? Click on the following
> link to look... Mykal looked at the same pictures and said that the other
> muffler he offers wouldn't clear the attachment frame.
>
> http://www.karnesfamily.info/page2.html
>
> Thanks a bunch.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 7/2/03 1:48 AM, Don Honabach at don@pcperfect.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> I'm not at this point yet, but it would seem like the air would have a
> hard time flowing through the radiator.
>
> For those flying with Subaru's is it common practice to install the
> radiator so it hangs down up front instead of hanging down in back?
> Seems like you could create a better funnel the other way.
>
> Don
It should hang down in front. Air flows in at the front and down through the
radiator to exit underneath. Thats the way the plans show it.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 7/1/03 9:52 PM, Dave Austin at daveaustin2@sprint.ca wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
>
> For those of you who have installed wing tanks..
> If I add a wing tank to my 601, planning to pump the contents up into the
> top of the current main tank, do I need a finger screen in the wing tank
> supply pickup and a purge valve in the wing tank - by law, and also
> practically?
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 Toronto
>
I would put a valve in each tank and check for water after each fill up. The
finger strainer's main purpose is to catch the larger particles that might
clog up your pump, so I would put one in each tank also. They might not be
necessary if you have one in the main tank though. I don't know what the law
says in Canada.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
I can't get out of the pattern because of cooling problems. I barely climb
to 2000' and the temp reaches 230 deg. My muffler hangs in front of the rad
and I think that might be one problem. Would you guys mind looking at my
muffler and telling me if you have a similar setup? Click on the following
link to look... Mykal looked at the same pictures and said that the other
muffler he offers wouldn't clear the attachment frame.
I would wrap the rest of the muffler in thermal tape. I would also do what
I could to seal the back of that radiator. I used expanding foam insulation
shot into the corner of mine and it made a difference. Try to eliminate any
leaks along the side of the radiator compartment as well.
Now I'm off to witness the teardown of my Stratus by the NTSB. :-(
Message 5
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| Subject: | Matco Intensifiers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
Has anyone installed the intensifiers on their plane? Can they report on the
difference in the braking effectiveness?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: XL: Gap between fuel tank and top nose skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 7/1/2003 8:40:35 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ac6qj@earthlink.net writes:
>
> Upon closing up the nose skin, I've got a small gap between the top of the
> fuel tanks and the top skin at the fuel tank filler ports. The tanks are
> corked as specified in the plans. Have any other builders encountered this?
> If so, did you do anything to bond the top skin down on the fuel tank and if
> so, what process/material did you use to bond the skin to the tank?
>
> Please see <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac/problems.htm>
>
> Thank to all!
>
> Best Regards, Ray Montagne
> Cupertino, CA
>
>
I went to the local auto parts store and bought a couple of o rings that fit
the filler neck tightly. All I did was roll them down over the filler neck and
they lay against the top skin. Looks great and keeps out the rain and other
stuff.
Ben Haas N801BH.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Radiator placement EA81 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
Hello listers,
I used the ZAC supplied radiator for the Rotax for the EA81 installation on
my second Zodiac. I mounted it under the rear spar of the wing, with two
aluminium tubes running forward to the firewall. The front of the radiator
hangs down about 8 cm, and the sides and the rear are sealed. I never exceed
180 F water temp, on climb out or whatever, on 80F days here in Australia.
Oil is variable, and averages 235 F.
I am very happy with the position back there, and it offsets some of the
weight of the engine. The prop wash keeps any warm air from the engine
compartment or the exhaust well clear of the radiator, and the nose looks
somewhat slimmer without the chin.
Just my five cents worth :-)
Cheers from Downunder,
Chris Weber
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:55:03 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
If you don't have a heater core on the heating loop, I would add one in the nose
opening opposite side of the starter. This will help around 15 degrees. Don
Walker. there are simple ways to do this.
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip Polstra
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 5:35 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
I can't get out of the pattern because of cooling problems. I barely climb
to 2000' and the temp reaches 230 deg. My muffler hangs in front of the rad
and I think that might be one problem. Would you guys mind looking at my
muffler and telling me if you have a similar setup? Click on the following
link to look... Mykal looked at the same pictures and said that the other
muffler he offers wouldn't clear the attachment frame.
I would wrap the rest of the muffler in thermal tape. I would also do what
I could to seal the back of that radiator. I used expanding foam insulation
shot into the corner of mine and it made a difference. Try to eliminate any
leaks along the side of the radiator compartment as well.
Now I'm off to witness the teardown of my Stratus by the NTSB. :-(
Message 9
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| Subject: | Matco Intensifiers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Dave,
I haven't installed mine yet, but the cost was minimal and I had them do
it last month or so. If you have an old set of pads as well, you might
want to talk with them about upgrading you to their latest pad which
also holds better.
Regards,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Alberti [mailto:daberti@execpc.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Matco Intensifiers
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
Has anyone installed the intensifiers on their plane? Can they report on
the difference in the braking effectiveness?
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
> If you don't have a heater core on the heating loop, I would add one in
the nose opening opposite side of the starter. This will help around 15
degrees. Don Walker. there are simple ways to do this.
I have that also. For some reason, it doesn't seem to help.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:01:08 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
John,
Man I don't know what to say. this is such a frustrating thing. Did you see the
note from the Aussie? running so cool? I would like to be able to do that.
I do know the frustration of climbing only 2000 feet and being too hot to comfortably
keep climbing. Bummer. Hopefully we will all find a solution. I am
not quitting. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: John Karnes
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
> If you don't have a heater core on the heating loop, I would add one in
the nose opening opposite side of the starter. This will help around 15
degrees. Don Walker. there are simple ways to do this.
I have that also. For some reason, it doesn't seem to help.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
Message 12
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| Subject: | Radiator placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
Remember that the Rotax 912 Radiator, 1" diam. coolant ports, will fit inside the
Zenith lower cowl, between the lower engine-mount tubes on a 912. Putting it
outside the aircraft in the "dragging diaper" configuration has got to be one
of the ugliest arrangements in the air!
GGP
Message 13
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| Subject: | Radiator placement EA81 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Thanks Chris,
So to confirm you still have the rad in the center of the plane, i.e you
just moved it backwards and not sideways to get it under the wing proper?
What size alu tube did you use? Was it 1" or 1.25 inch?
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Weber [mailto:chrisoz@gmx.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: Radiator placement EA81
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
Hello listers,
I used the ZAC supplied radiator for the Rotax for the EA81 installation on
my second Zodiac. I mounted it under the rear spar of the wing, with two
aluminium tubes running forward to the firewall. The front of the radiator
hangs down about 8 cm, and the sides and the rear are sealed. I never exceed
180 F water temp, on climb out or whatever, on 80F days here in Australia.
Oil is variable, and averages 235 F. I am very happy with the position back
there, and it offsets some of the weight of the engine. The prop wash keeps
any warm air from the engine compartment or the exhaust well clear of the
radiator, and the nose looks somewhat slimmer without the chin. Just my five
cents worth :-)
Cheers from Downunder,
Chris Weber
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Really the NTSB is going to strip your motor...Did it fail due to valve
guide slippage?
I wonder if the HEAP of valve guide issues with Stratus is going to come out
now...tell him you have lots of friends with valve guide issues and I will
personally write up a testimony of my THREE near misses!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Polstra [mailto:ppolstra@mindspring.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
--> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
I can't get out of the pattern because of cooling problems. I barely climb
to 2000' and the temp reaches 230 deg. My muffler hangs in front of the rad
and I think that might be one problem. Would you guys mind looking at my
muffler and telling me if you have a similar setup? Click on the following
link to look... Mykal looked at the same pictures and said that the other
muffler he offers wouldn't clear the attachment frame.
I would wrap the rest of the muffler in thermal tape. I would also do what
I could to seal the back of that radiator. I used expanding foam insulation
shot into the corner of mine and it made a difference. Try to eliminate any
leaks along the side of the radiator compartment as well.
Now I'm off to witness the teardown of my Stratus by the NTSB. :-(
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: XL: Gap between fuel tank and top nose skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL: Gap between fuel tank and top nose skin.
I made a cork gasket, several layers glued with silicone for my 601 HDS.
After several landings with an almost full tank, I squirted more silicone in
where the tank and gasket had pulled loose from the top skin. This will
insure that the tank is fully settled into position.
Leo Corbalis
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com
Frank
Are all you guys running the same radiator? If so what is the square inches. I
have an all aluminum radiator that I have been testing and so far the results
are positive. These engines should not run above 200 they should operate 195 (EFI)
and 180 with carb. The oil temp should be the same as the water temp. Running
this engine over these limits will soon lead to head gasket failure. Another
thing the ea81 users should keep a watch on is excessive runout in the distributor
caused by wear in the bushings.
I'll keep you advised I about to test one in flight.
Ron
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:41:31 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Right with you Frank. Not far from time for a class action suit. do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)
To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Really the NTSB is going to strip your motor...Did it fail due to valve
guide slippage?
I wonder if the HEAP of valve guide issues with Stratus is going to come out
now...tell him you have lots of friends with valve guide issues and I will
personally write up a testimony of my THREE near misses!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Polstra [mailto:ppolstra@mindspring.com]
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
--> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
I can't get out of the pattern because of cooling problems. I barely climb
to 2000' and the temp reaches 230 deg. My muffler hangs in front of the rad
and I think that might be one problem. Would you guys mind looking at my
muffler and telling me if you have a similar setup? Click on the following
link to look... Mykal looked at the same pictures and said that the other
muffler he offers wouldn't clear the attachment frame.
I would wrap the rest of the muffler in thermal tape. I would also do what
I could to seal the back of that radiator. I used expanding foam insulation
shot into the corner of mine and it made a difference. Try to eliminate any
leaks along the side of the radiator compartment as well.
Now I'm off to witness the teardown of my Stratus by the NTSB. :-(
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Class Action Suit? Against who? Stratus? My guess is that Mykal has no
insurance and maybe one other person working for him. Not to put salt
into a wound, but Stratus and most other companies like them are just
smart folks that could rebuild an engine. I doubt the assest pool for
them goes far and what little there was would end up in the attorney's
hands and not the buyer's pocket.
Just my 2 cents.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
Do Not Archive
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Right with you Frank. Not far from time for a class action suit. do not
archive
----- Original Message -----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)
To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Really the NTSB is going to strip your motor...Did it fail due to
valve
guide slippage?
I wonder if the HEAP of valve guide issues with Stratus is going to
come out
now...tell him you have lots of friends with valve guide issues and I
will
personally write up a testimony of my THREE near misses!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Polstra [mailto:ppolstra@mindspring.com]
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
--> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes"
<jpkarnes@charter.net>
I can't get out of the pattern because of cooling problems. I barely
climb
to 2000' and the temp reaches 230 deg. My muffler hangs in front of
the rad
and I think that might be one problem. Would you guys mind looking at
my
muffler and telling me if you have a similar setup? Click on the
following
link to look... Mykal looked at the same pictures and said that the
other
muffler he offers wouldn't clear the attachment frame.
I would wrap the rest of the muffler in thermal tape. I would also do
what
I could to seal the back of that radiator. I used expanding foam
insulation
shot into the corner of mine and it made a difference. Try to
eliminate any
leaks along the side of the radiator compartment as well.
Now I'm off to witness the teardown of my Stratus by the NTSB. :-(
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Suing does not further this industry a bit.
Actually, it has become what it is, at least in part due to the liability issue.
It would be more constructive to provide Stratus (or whoever) with proper feedback.
For instance, Stratus could get things organized and issue advisories, or
newsletters. At least their clients would know what is happening, what kind of
problems others are having.
Just my opinion, and worth not a cent more than what you paid for it.
Carlos
CH601-HD, building spar - no engine yet... :o)
--- Don Honabach <don@pcperfect.com> wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> Class Action Suit? Against who? Stratus? My guess is that Mykal has no
> insurance and maybe one other person working for him. Not to put salt
> into a wound, but Stratus and most other companies like them are just
> smart folks that could rebuild an engine. I doubt the assest pool for
> them goes far and what little there was would end up in the attorney's
> hands and not the buyer's pocket.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Don
Message 20
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The rad is a Volks Rabbit diesel thing. I don't know the square inches but
there is no way I can run at 200F 210 is my normal water temp.
Airplane rads should be somewhat different to car rads...i.e they should be
of a small frontal area (to cut down on drag) but thick because there is a
lot of available static pressure when the rad is ducted correctly.
The volks rad is thin but its seems to work okay for running at 210F
Never had a head gasket failure...my valve guides always fell out
first!...:(
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Ramperf@aol.com [mailto:Ramperf@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com
Frank
Are all you guys running the same radiator? If so what is the square inches.
I have an all aluminum radiator that I have been testing and so far the
results are positive. These engines should not run above 200 they should
operate 195 (EFI) and 180 with carb. The oil temp should be the same as the
water temp. Running this engine over these limits will soon lead to head
gasket failure. Another thing the ea81 users should keep a watch on is
excessive runout in the distributor caused by wear in the bushings. I'll
keep you advised I about to test one in flight. Ron
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 7/2/2003 12:07:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
ac6qj@earthlink.net writes:
>
> > Not sure what the law sez but if you had a bunch of water in the
> > wing tanks , you would probably be in the air when
> > you started transferring it to the main tank. That would be bad
> > if it overwhelmed your gascolator.
> >
>
> That is not an issue here. The tanks are sealed. It is a gap between the
> sealed tank and the skin that is at issue. The photos posted in the
> "problem" section of my web page will give you a better idea of what is
> going on. You'll see the tank filler cap perfectly sealed but an air gap
> between the tank and the skin.
>
Actually, vented tanks collect water as the result of moisture condensation.
Happens with each heat cycle, day/night. Good to drain a sample prior to
flight, as in preflight check.
Jerry, 701SP in work
Message 22
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Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:00:36 -0400
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>Right with you -----. Not far from time for a class action suit. do not archive
Please don't even contemplate this sort of thing. We're all building EXPERIMENTAL
a/c and know (or at least should know) that the hobby brings certain risks.
Manage the risks to the best of your ability even if it means choosing a different
power plant, but don't start us down the road that ruined certificated
a/c.
Most of us build because we can't afford the certificated stuff, don't take the
homebuilding avenue away.
Respectfully Jeff
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:40:36 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Okay, I should have been more overt in my attempts at DO NOT ARCHIVE expressions
of levity. No big wounds here. I have learned to take my lumps, for the most
part. Those who have listened to this thread know that feedback has been offered
for three years now, diplomatically and with no adversarial attitude, with
a very slow uptake on the receiving end.
However, "smart folks", in this case must include a pretty broad range along the
bell curve. Just my 2 cents! Don W
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Sa
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Suing does not further this industry a bit.
Actually, it has become what it is, at least in part due to the liability issue.
It would be more constructive to provide Stratus (or whoever) with proper feedback.
For instance, Stratus could get things organized and issue advisories, or
newsletters. At least their clients would know what is happening, what kind of
problems others are having.
Just my opinion, and worth not a cent more than what you paid for it.
Carlos
CH601-HD, building spar - no engine yet... :o)
--- Don Honabach <don@pcperfect.com> wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted
by:
"Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> Class Action Suit? Against who? Stratus? My guess is that Mykal has no
> insurance and maybe one other person working for him. Not to put salt
> into a wound, but Stratus and most other companies like them are just
> smart folks that could rebuild an engine. I doubt the assest pool for
> them goes far and what little there was would end up in the attorney's
> hands and not the buyer's pocket.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Don
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gayla Lemley" <GaylaLemley@peoplepc.com>
> Right with you Frank. Not far from time for a class action
suit. do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)
> > now...tell him you have lots of friends with valve guide
issues and I will
> personally write up a testimony of my THREE near misses!
>
> Frank
>
>
Oh! Oh! I get it! This was meant to be a joke.
Homebuilt kit manufacturing, auto engine
conversion/building/rebuilding for aircraft use etc. are nickel
and dime at best. Seems I read a while back that the Stratus man
took on a second job in order to be able to support his engine
conversion habit. Not enough volume, very shallow pockets. Gota
luv it or be a masochist to try to make a living off homebuilt
aircraft.
Sam(701) do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 CHT probe |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi folks,
away from the hangar right know, so I can't look for myself. Does anybody happen
to know the exact type of the CHT probes used on the Rotax 912? They are from
VDO and the type number is engraved on the probe - that much I remember. Would
appreciate, if somebody can look it up and let me know.
Happy building / flying
Thilo Kind
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
>
My muffler hangs in front of the rad
> and I think that might be one problem. Would you guys mind looking at my
> muffler and telling me if you have a similar setup> Thanks a bunch.
John,
I only recently hung the Stratus muffler and the bottom edge of the muffler
diameter
aligns with the bottom of the plane with no radiator hung yet. My engine is
right on, if not 1/2" high compared to what I've seen. You probably
have a lot of turbulence aft of the muffler from your pictures.
Larry McFarland - 601hds
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Matco Intensifiers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell <cleone@rr1.net>
Yes, they work and I can hold the plane still past 4000 rpm now. Also
slide tires sometimes. Cleone
YesAt 07:41 AM 7/2/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
>
>Has anyone installed the intensifiers on their plane? Can they report on the
>difference in the braking effectiveness?
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Matco Intensifiers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Matco Intensifiers
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
>
> Has anyone installed the intensifiers on their plane? Can they report on
the
> difference in the braking effectiveness?
>
Dave,
I installed the Matco intensifiers and only recently tested their
effectiveness. The brakes feel like I've got a grip with lots less pressure
on
the toes. The installation was not too difficult, but I had to buy a
snap-ring pliers
set from the automotive store to get the job done. Shortening the cylinder
insert
correctly is probably the most easily misunderstood part of the task, but
I'd recommend
anyone can do it and the people at Matco answer questions very readily.
Larry McFarland - 601hds
Message 29
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| Subject: | Non-Retracting amfibian floats....? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com
Looking for some thoughts....
What do you guys think about a set of amfibian floats that do not retract.
Is it possible?
John W. Tarabocchia
http:\\hometown.aol.com\Zodiacbuilder
Message 30
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
Here is what I know from the teardown. One of the valves in the #3 cylinder
broke off (the bigger one). The valve beat a huge hole in the piston. All
the debris made its way into other parts of the engine including the #1
cylinder. The NTSB is sending the valve to the lab. I'll be posting
pictures of the engine to the file share soon. Even with the heads removed
the engine still couldn't be turned.
There was a small quantitiy of coolant in the oil when it was drained.
There was also some corrosion noted on the top of the engine on the left
side.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Really the NTSB is going to strip your motor...Did it fail due to valve
guide slippage?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
--> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
Now I'm off to witness the teardown of my Stratus by the NTSB. :-(
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>Right with you -----. Not far from time for a class action suit. do not
archive
Please don't even contemplate this sort of thing. We're all building
EXPERIMENTAL a/c and know (or at least should know) that the hobby brings
certain risks.
I have to agree with this. My wife asked me if I was pissed at Stratus
because of what happened. I told her that getting pissed off doesn't change
what happened. Perhaps if the NTSB goes to them with the findings from my
engine that might prompt them to do something differently that could prevent
this from happening to someone else.
I really miss my plane though. :-( It especially stinks now that I've
openned a 2nd flight school 108 nm from the other one. I don't like the 2
hr car ride much.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Matco Intensifiers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dunning" <peterd@metec.co.nz>
Hi Dave
I have installed the intensifiers but not yet
had the opportunity to test them on the airfield.
Some notes:
1.Dont forget to fit the "Stat-O-Seals" on the piston
shaft...MATCO did not send them in my kit, so
I only discovered the problem later. New internal
cir-clips are required for these seals.
2. Take care to cut the inner sleeve to correct
length in a lathe. Also, when sliding the sleeve
into the barrel, keep the external "O" rings on the
sleeve wet with brake fluid to assist insertion.
(These can and will be damaged if care is not
taken) I used a long clamp to press this assembly
together.
3. I modified the ZAC brake pedal geometry
by reducing the length of the lower horizontal
mounting arm attached to the bottom of the
MATCO Master brake cylinder. (Tucks in
closer and almost parallel to the pedals)
In all, the MA (Mech Advantage) has gone from
approx. 1.6 to better than 2.7 and is well worth
doing in my view.
Hope this helps.
Peter Dunning
CH601HD/ZK-SPD/912S
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Alberti <daberti@execpc.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Matco Intensifiers
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
>
>Has anyone installed the intensifiers on their plane? Can they report on
the
>difference in the braking effectiveness?
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmm...Not wishing to drive the conclusion to the valve guide solution but it
is possible that a piece of guide got stuck between the valve and seat and
helped snap it off.
What do the guides look like?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Polstra [mailto:ppolstra@mindspring.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
--> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
Here is what I know from the teardown. One of the valves in the #3 cylinder
broke off (the bigger one). The valve beat a huge hole in the piston. All
the debris made its way into other parts of the engine including the #1
cylinder. The NTSB is sending the valve to the lab. I'll be posting
pictures of the engine to the file share soon. Even with the heads removed
the engine still couldn't be turned.
There was a small quantitiy of coolant in the oil when it was drained. There
was also some corrosion noted on the top of the engine on the left side.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Really the NTSB is going to strip your motor...Did it fail due to valve
guide slippage?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
--> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
Now I'm off to witness the teardown of my Stratus by the NTSB. :-(
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jackie B. Johnson" <zjohnson@ucnsb.net>
Don/John
understand you misery..I have NSI setup..rad/cowling..I had same
problems at first..would not cool with rad at front..I have it at wing..
trailing edge, ala P-51 and my troubles went away..very critical that you
get all !! air out..seal between rad/cowling..clean air must go in
cowling,thru rad and exit to low pressure area...just hanging even a big vw
rad out in breeze,especially in turbulance of prop ain't good...my oil runs
190-210. ( no cooler).water 200-225 on hot fla days..and I'm happy with that
all day long ..I cruise at 3900 RPM, 26.5 degs pitch, 105-110 MPH ..all day
long...higher RPM, lower pitch will give higher temps...!!
Jackie N5JZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
>
> John,
> Man I don't know what to say. this is such a frustrating thing. Did you
see the note from the Aussie? running so cool? I would like to be able to do
that.
> I do know the frustration of climbing only 2000 feet and being too hot
to comfortably keep climbing. Bummer. Hopefully we will all find a
solution. I am not quitting. Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Karnes
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
>
> > If you don't have a heater core on the heating loop, I would add one
in
> the nose opening opposite side of the starter. This will help around 15
> degrees. Don Walker. there are simple ways to do this.
>
>
> I have that also. For some reason, it doesn't seem to help.
>
> John Karnes
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Here,the "fight" against drug smugling and in the USA the suing against
aviation, is what is destroying aviation, next generations will fly
only airlines...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Suing does not further this industry a bit.
>
> Actually, it has become what it is, at least in part due to the
> liability issue.
>
> It would be more constructive to provide Stratus (or whoever) with
> proper feedback.
> For instance, Stratus could get things organized and issue
> advisories, or
> newsletters. At least their clients would know what is happening,
> what kind of
> problems others are having.
>
> Just my opinion, and worth not a cent more than what you paid for it.
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, building spar - no engine yet... :o)
>
>
> --- Don Honabach <don@pcperfect.com> wrote: > --> Zenith-List
> message posted by:
> "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
> >
> > Class Action Suit? Against who? Stratus? My guess is that Mykal has
> no
> > insurance and maybe one other person working for him. Not to put
> salt
> > into a wound, but Stratus and most other companies like them are
> just
> > smart folks that could rebuild an engine. I doubt the assest pool
> for
> > them goes far and what little there was would end up in the
> attorney's
> > hands and not the buyer's pocket.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> >
> > Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Tanks/ finger screens |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
I put a finger screen in every tank-- this is no
place to "cut corners"----- "fred" do not archive---
Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> on 7/1/03 9:52 PM, Dave Austin at
> daveaustin2@sprint.ca wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin"
> <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
> >
> > For those of you who have installed wing tanks..
> > If I add a wing tank to my 601, planning to pump
> the contents up into the
> > top of the current main tank, do I need a finger
> screen in the wing tank
> > supply pickup and a purge valve in the wing tank -
> by law, and also
> > practically?
> > Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 Toronto
> >
>
> I would put a valve in each tank and check for water
> after each fill up. The
> finger strainer's main purpose is to catch the
> larger particles that might
> clog up your pump, so I would put one in each tank
> also. They might not be
> necessary if you have one in the main tank though. I
> don't know what the law
> says in Canada.
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> Airframe construction complete.
> Working on instrument panel, electrical and
> interior.
> do not archive.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
--- Gayla Lemley <GaylaLemley@peoplepc.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gayla Lemley"
> <GaylaLemley@peoplepc.com>
>
>
> > Right with you Frank. Not far from time for a class action
> suit. do not archive
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)
> > > now...tell him you have lots of friends with valve guide
> issues and I will
> > personally write up a testimony of my THREE near misses!
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> Oh! Oh! I get it! This was meant to be a joke.
> Homebuilt kit manufacturing, auto engine
> conversion/building/rebuilding for aircraft use etc. are nickel
> and dime at best. Seems I read a while back that the Stratus man
> took on a second job in order to be able to support his engine
> conversion habit. Not enough volume, very shallow pockets. Gota
> luv it or be a masochist to try to make a living off homebuilt
> aircraft.
> Sam(701) do not archive
As we say here in Mexico: Aviation is very dangerous. Can kill you,
you can starve... :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Sa
__________________________________
Message 38
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Do you think you can rebuild it? Buy a kit and use as much parts from
the old plane to build it faster? When we are building our plane we
never think of it damaged in the future... Hope you start (re)building
soon.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Philip Polstra <ppolstra@mindspring.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
> >Right with you -----. Not far from time for a class action suit. do
> not
> archive
>
> Please don't even contemplate this sort of thing. We're all building
> EXPERIMENTAL a/c and know (or at least should know) that the hobby
> brings
> certain risks.
>
> I have to agree with this. My wife asked me if I was pissed at
> Stratus
> because of what happened. I told her that getting pissed off doesn't
> change
> what happened. Perhaps if the NTSB goes to them with the findings
> from my
> engine that might prompt them to do something differently that could
> prevent
> this from happening to someone else.
>
> I really miss my plane though. :-( It especially stinks now that
> I've
> openned a 2nd flight school 108 nm from the other one. I don't like
> the 2
> hr car ride much.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 39
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
>
> Actually, vented tanks collect water as the result of moisture condensation.
> Happens with each heat cycle, day/night. Good to drain a sample prior to
> flight, as in preflight check.
>
> Jerry, 701SP in work
>
Thanks to all who have responded on and off list regarding this issue.
Sorry but I think some folks are not understanding that it is not water in
the tank that is a concern. As stated before, the tanks are sealed (save
for the overflow vent). The issue is that of moisture flowing through the
gap and collecting inside of the wing which could cause potential corrosion
problems, not to mention out of balance issues if the quantity was
significant. Add a little dust and then there might even be mud in the
wing. Think of this as more of having an inspection plate on top of the
wing that is not sealed and forget that the fuel tank was ever mentioned and
then you'll have a true grasp of the issue.
To restate, I am not in the least concerned about integrity of the tank. I
am concerned about long term integrity of the wing. Thanks for all of the
responses and especially to those of you who contributed information
relevant to the issue of concern.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
Message 40
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
The plane is not rebuildable. I have pictures for anyone interested. Here
is a summary of the damage. Nosegear bent aft into the radiator deforming
bottom of fuselage. Both mains bent aft, possible damage to the spar. Deep
dents in both center wing leading edges from trees I hit. Dents in tears in
both outboard wing sections. Canopy cracked with large hole where towbar
shot through. Elevator dented by tops of trees that bounced off canopy and
continued aft. Instrument panel bent.
BTW, I didn't realize it before, but the seatbelt attach point on the
outboard side failed. That is why I put my knee through the tachometer.
Salvagable from the plane: both Bing carbs, prop hub, one prop blade,
avionics, rear fuselage minus elevator, control stick, canopy hinges,
instruments except tach, aileron bellcranks, rudder, rudder petals, brakes,
wheels, engine accessories, elevator trim, and seats.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Do you think you can rebuild it? Buy a kit and use as much parts from
the old plane to build it faster? When we are building our plane we
never think of it damaged in the future... Hope you start (re)building
soon.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com
Frank
I saw the configuration of the 601 and it seems to me that the radiator and the
placement of the muffler, in front of the radiator, and no ducting is not the
most reliable setup. Mybe you have never blown a head gasket but....
How many times have you checked your head bolts? How much have they stretched?
My point is things move with heat and cooling and that engine at that temp things
move alot. Don't take my word for it check em! And also look at the anniling
of the head and block which is from the head gasket moving!
Ron
Message 42
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson" <steved@nc.rr.com>
> Canopy cracked with large hole where towbar
> shot through.
Glad to hear it missed you on the way out! How was it secured, and did
anything else get loose?
Steve
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