Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Re: litigation (Philip Polstra)
2. 04:16 AM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Phil & Michele Miller)
3. 05:38 AM - Re: Unsecured baggage/dangerous (Fred Poor)
4. 06:28 AM - Re: Unsecured baggage/dangerous (Dave Austin)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Ray Montagne)
6. 07:40 AM - XL wing tank filler hole (Rico Voss)
7. 07:40 AM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Gary Gower)
8. 07:53 AM - 701 (Lee Thomas)
9. 07:59 AM - Re: litigation (Leo J. Corbalis)
10. 08:29 AM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Don Honabach)
11. 08:32 AM - Re: litigation (Don Honabach)
12. 08:50 AM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
13. 09:18 AM - Re: litigation (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.)
14. 09:25 AM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Grant Corriveau)
15. 11:28 AM - Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) (Jim Frisby)
16. 12:20 PM - Re: Wing Tanks ()
17. 12:36 PM - ()
18. 01:56 PM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Ron DeWees)
19. 02:01 PM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Ron DeWees)
20. 02:14 PM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Flydog1966@aol.com)
21. 03:36 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (George Swinford)
22. 03:44 PM - Re: litigation (Gary K)
23. 04:02 PM - Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
24. 06:21 PM - Re: Wing Tanks (Ray Montagne)
25. 06:21 PM - Re: XL wing tank filler hole (Ray Montagne)
26. 07:39 PM - Don't throw it away Philip!!! (Chris Weber)
27. 07:39 PM - Re: Radiator placement EA 81 (Chris Weber)
28. 07:43 PM - Re: litigation (Perry M. Chappano)
29. 08:46 PM - Re: Don't throw it away Philip!!! (CBRxxDRV@aol.com)
30. 09:00 PM - XL Canopy Lock (Michel Therrien)
31. 09:04 PM - Re: Don't throw it away Philip!!! (Philip Polstra)
32. 09:43 PM - Weatherstrip adhesive (Michel Therrien)
33. 10:34 PM - For Sale - 601HDS PARTIAL Kit (Don)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson" <steved@nc.rr.com>
> Canopy cracked with large hole where towbar
> shot through.
Glad to hear it missed you on the way out! How was it secured, and did
anything else get loose?
It wasn't really secured. It was laying on the carpet in the baggage area.
It never moved in flight from the carpet alone. Luckily I had it on the
other side of the plane to try and balance out the weight difference from
only having one person in the plane.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
I think there is a lesson there for all of us. My plane is currently
back in my workshop; one of the jobs on the list is to make a cargo net
to prevent baggage items becoming missiles.
Cheers,
Phil Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip
Polstra
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: litigation
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
--> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson" <steved@nc.rr.com>
> Canopy cracked with large hole where towbar
> shot through.
Glad to hear it missed you on the way out! How was it secured, and did
anything else get loose?
It wasn't really secured. It was laying on the carpet in the baggage
area. It never moved in flight from the carpet alone. Luckily I had it
on the other side of the plane to try and balance out the weight
difference from only having one person in the plane.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage/dangerous |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
On my 701- I extended the "seat back" about 3" above
the floor of the baggage compartment and reinforced
this with an "L"-- ( a net should still be used)---
"fred" do not archive
--- Phil & Michele Miller <millerpg@ps.gen.nz> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele
> Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
>
>
> I think there is a lesson there for all of us. My
> plane is currently
> back in my workshop; one of the jobs on the list is
> to make a cargo net
> to prevent baggage items becoming missiles.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Philip
> Polstra
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: litigation
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
> --> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson"
> <steved@nc.rr.com>
>
> > Canopy cracked with large hole where towbar
> > shot through.
>
> Glad to hear it missed you on the way out! How was
> it secured, and did
> anything else get loose?
>
> It wasn't really secured. It was laying on the
> carpet in the baggage
> area. It never moved in flight from the carpet
> alone. Luckily I had it
> on the other side of the plane to try and balance
> out the weight
> difference from only having one person in the plane.
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
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>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage/dangerous |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
I don't think a net will stop anything heavy being thrown forward by a very
sudden stop. Tie it down, folks, like the regs say!
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/3/03 4:12 AM, "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller"
> <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
>
>
> I think there is a lesson there for all of us. My plane is currently
> back in my workshop; one of the jobs on the list is to make a cargo net
> to prevent baggage items becoming missiles.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
>
Motorcycle shops sell an item called Bungie Buddies which are threaded nylon
eyes (extremely light). These can be fastened directly through the baggage
compartment floor and used to hold down a cargo net or for fastening straps
to tie down baggage.
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | XL wing tank filler hole |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
Ray,
One more comment on the gap between skin and filler
neck.... Our local Tech Counselor advised to make
sure that there is drainage (inboard, with the
dihedral) along the bottom of the wing spar. In other
words, dont "cork" it so tight as to dam up any water
that gets inside the wing. (they're called limber
holes in the marine industry)
It looks near impossible to get a tight seal in the
gap. The tank flange just isnt parallel with the
skin. I put a piece of 1/8" flat rubber gasket in,
but it's snug on one side, loose on the other. Just
one of those things we'll live with.
I noticed on the factory demo, the silicone they'd
used to seal the gap had loosened, with shifting of
the tank. So it goes...
--Rico
__________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
We added rounded "L" pieces with a hole, on each corner and one
centered on every side and in the back of the luggage area to use
bungie cords to fasten everything there (harder to explain than to do)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Phil & Michele Miller <millerpg@ps.gen.nz> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller"
> <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
>
>
> I think there is a lesson there for all of us. My plane is currently
> back in my workshop; one of the jobs on the list is to make a cargo
> net
> to prevent baggage items becoming missiles.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip
> Polstra
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: litigation
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
> --> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson"
> <steved@nc.rr.com>
>
> > Canopy cracked with large hole where towbar
> > shot through.
>
> Glad to hear it missed you on the way out! How was it secured, and
> did
> anything else get loose?
>
> It wasn't really secured. It was laying on the carpet in the baggage
> area. It never moved in flight from the carpet alone. Luckily I had
> it
> on the other side of the plane to try and balance out the weight
> difference from only having one person in the plane.
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Lee Thomas <cltvet@mail.ocis.net>
Anyone with a 701 in Ft.Lauderdale FL area? Need to see a windshield in place.
Lee
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
We need lawyers like a fish needs a bicycle.Do not archive.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: litigation
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
> >Right with you -----. Not far from time for a class action suit. do not
archive
>
> Please don't even contemplate this sort of thing. We're all building
EXPERIMENTAL a/c and know (or at least should know) that the hobby brings
certain risks. Manage the risks to the best of your ability even if it
means choosing a different power plant, but don't start us down the road
that ruined certificated a/c.
>
> Most of us build because we can't afford the certificated stuff, don't
take the homebuilding avenue away.
>
> Respectfully Jeff
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
I just need to find something for the cup/soda holder. I wonder if they
make a custom bungie for a 44Oz. Thrist Buster. Nothing like having a
flying soda in the cockpit :)
Don
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Montagne [mailto:ac6qj@earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/3/03 4:12 AM, "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller"
> <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
>
>
> I think there is a lesson there for all of us. My plane is currently
> back in my workshop; one of the jobs on the list is to make a cargo
> net to prevent baggage items becoming missiles.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
>
Motorcycle shops sell an item called Bungie Buddies which are threaded
nylon eyes (extremely light). These can be fastened directly through
the baggage compartment floor and used to hold down a cargo net or for
fastening straps to tie down baggage.
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
========================================================================
===
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
========================================================================
===
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
The scary part of this is that we have a good number of lawyers for
clients and if they smell blood (i.e. assets) they go for it. Best case
they win, worse case they could of won.
As a side note, lawyers get beat up a lot, but in reality they represent
a side of all of us. What's the old saying, you hate lawyers until you
need one or something like that.
Regards,
Don
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo J. Corbalis [mailto:leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: litigation
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis"
--> <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
We need lawyers like a fish needs a bicycle.Do not archive.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: litigation
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
> >Right with you -----. Not far from time for a class action suit. do
> >not
archive
>
> Please don't even contemplate this sort of thing. We're all building
EXPERIMENTAL a/c and know (or at least should know) that the hobby
brings certain risks. Manage the risks to the best of your ability even
if it means choosing a different power plant, but don't start us down
the road that ruined certificated a/c.
>
> Most of us build because we can't afford the certificated stuff, don't
take the homebuilding avenue away.
>
> Respectfully Jeff
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yup, no argument there.
I just never knew that running at those temps was a problem. Stratus after
has recommended a max water temp of 230F...too hot for my comfort so I
settled at 210F as a reasonable compromise....But I will check the head
bolts routinly from now on.
Yes the rad set up has three issues.
1) right behind the muffler/hot air from lower cowl
2) Not in a static pressure rcovery duct (turns velocity pressure into
available static)
3) Too close to the prop, hence the air is going sidways at that
point...Proven because I have the crankcase breather exiting at the lower
left corner of the cowl...oil get on the left wheelpant, that's almost a 45
degree angle!!!
Fixing this setup has always been one of those "get round to it"
projects...Maybe your temp recommendation has pushed this to the top of the
pile....right behind the distributor?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Ramperf@aol.com [mailto:Ramperf@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com
Frank
I saw the configuration of the 601 and it seems to me that the radiator and
the placement of the muffler, in front of the radiator, and no ducting is
not the most reliable setup. Mybe you have never blown a head gasket but....
How many times have you checked your head bolts? How much have they
stretched? My point is things move with heat and cooling and that engine at
that temp things move alot. Don't take my word for it check em! And also
look at the anniling of the head and block which is from the head gasket
moving! Ron
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
I'm not a proponet of the ambulance-chasing type of lawyer. They are the
scourge of the profession. However, think of how much the greed of
unfettered capitalism would negatively affect society, if there were no
lawyers to keep the corporations in line.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: litigation
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> The scary part of this is that we have a good number of lawyers for
> clients and if they smell blood (i.e. assets) they go for it. Best case
> they win, worse case they could of won.
>
> As a side note, lawyers get beat up a lot, but in reality they represent
> a side of all of us. What's the old saying, you hate lawyers until you
> need one or something like that.
>
> Regards,
> Don
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo J. Corbalis [mailto:leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: litigation
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis"
> --> <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>
> We need lawyers like a fish needs a bicycle.Do not archive.
>
> Leo Corbalis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: litigation
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> >
> > >Right with you -----. Not far from time for a class action suit. do
> > >not
> archive
> >
> > Please don't even contemplate this sort of thing. We're all building
> EXPERIMENTAL a/c and know (or at least should know) that the hobby
> brings certain risks. Manage the risks to the best of your ability even
> if it means choosing a different power plant, but don't start us down
> the road that ruined certificated a/c.
> >
> > Most of us build because we can't afford the certificated stuff, don't
> take the homebuilding avenue away.
> >
> > Respectfully Jeff
> >
> >
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> I think there is a lesson there for all of us. My plane is currently
> back in my workshop; one of the jobs on the list is to make a cargo net
> to prevent baggage items becoming missiles.
Indeed!
I have a cargo net to close off the baggage shelf, but that isn't safe
enough for something hard/heavy like a towbar - or fire extinguisher. I
chose to locate my fire extinguisher there and did so reluctantly -- but the
shelf just behind the pax was the only place where I could be sure to reach
after an accident, assuming shoulder strap tightly attached, etc..
I made the installation more secure by doubly attaching the braket that
comes with it (plastic! useless) to a specially-installed 'L' extrusion
under the shelf, and I also added a metal braket. Probably even better would
be to make a small 'bulkhead' wall that cups the extinguisher and would hold
it against a sudden deceleration regardless of any brakets coming
loose/open.
Other heavy objects belong in the wing lockers imho. My personal rule now
becomes that nothing goes on the baggage shelf that I wouldn't want hitting
me in the back of the head at a great rate of knots! ;-)
Glad to hear that the towbar/missle missed you, Phil!
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 15
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| Subject: | Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <marslander@hotmail.com>
This discussion of unsecured items brings to mind the danger of fixed
ballast in the tail, often necessary for balancing heavy engines.
If these fixtures cannot be secured sufficiently that a crash impact
wouldn't release them, then they should be engineered to break up into small
pieces before releasing. Frangable ballast, such as bags of shot could be
used. Of course, even an intact bag of lead shot would be a missle, it
would need to be situated and supported so that the bag would rupture and
empty before it's fixture would fail.
IMHO
Jim
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
If the possibility of water puddling at the rib/spar junction is something
you want to take care of, just drill a #20 hole at the corner (NOT touching
rib or spar), then insert about a 16-penny nail in there, and GENTLY bring
the nail towards the rear. You'll create a small funnel, with a very minor
venturi effect, that will suction the water out nicely. Take a look at the
average old leaky C-150, and you'll likely see one just ahead of each
bulkhead.
Paul Rodriguez
601Corvair, working on the wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Montagne" <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Tanks
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
>
> >
> > Actually, vented tanks collect water as the result of moisture
condensation.
> > Happens with each heat cycle, day/night. Good to drain a sample prior to
> > flight, as in preflight check.
> >
> > Jerry, 701SP in work
> >
>
> Thanks to all who have responded on and off list regarding this issue.
>
> Sorry but I think some folks are not understanding that it is not water in
> the tank that is a concern. As stated before, the tanks are sealed (save
> for the overflow vent). The issue is that of moisture flowing through the
> gap and collecting inside of the wing which could cause potential
corrosion
> problems, not to mention out of balance issues if the quantity was
> significant. Add a little dust and then there might even be mud in the
> wing. Think of this as more of having an inspection plate on top of the
> wing that is not sealed and forget that the fuel tank was ever mentioned
and
> then you'll have a true grasp of the issue.
>
> To restate, I am not in the least concerned about integrity of the tank.
I
> am concerned about long term integrity of the wing. Thanks for all of the
> responses and especially to those of you who contributed information
> relevant to the issue of concern.
>
>
> DO NOT ACHIVE
>
> Best Regards, Ray Montagne
> Cupertino, CA
>
>
===========================================================================
>
> Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
> Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
> Build Status: Rudder completed
> Elevator Completed
> Stabilizer Completed
> Flaps Completed
> Ailerons Completed
> Right Wing Under Completed
> Right Wing Tip Completed
> Left Wing Under Construction
>
>
===========================================================================
>
>
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Whoa, people, I just have to butt in--- Class action suit? for what? we are using
engines for a purpose they were not intended. Soob, Lyc, and all the others
owe us nothing. The rebuilders only owe a duty of reasonable care. Just ain't
no grounds to sue. Furthermore, even if you did successfully mount a class-action
suit, ( I speak from experience here) the only person to collect is the
lawyer. After his fees, the remainder gets divvied among dozens, maybe hundreds,
maybe thousands of plaintiffs. What you get is nada, niente, zip, bupkis, ungatz.
Why do you think lawyers love class actions so much? Gary Gower is right.
Aviation can kill you....by starvation
Paul Rodriguez
601XL -Corvair, will these wings ever get done?
Do not archive
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
... And when you finish it the cup may come in handy again!
Ron
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> I just need to find something for the cup/soda holder. I wonder if they
> make a custom bungie for a 44Oz. Thrist Buster. Nothing like having a
> flying soda in the cockpit :)
>
> Don
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Montagne [mailto:ac6qj@earthlink.net]
> To: Zenith List
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
>
> On 7/3/03 4:12 AM, "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller"
> > <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
> >
> >
> > I think there is a lesson there for all of us. My plane is currently
> > back in my workshop; one of the jobs on the list is to make a cargo
> > net to prevent baggage items becoming missiles.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Phil Miller
> >
>
> Motorcycle shops sell an item called Bungie Buddies which are threaded
> nylon eyes (extremely light). These can be fastened directly through
> the baggage compartment floor and used to hold down a cargo net or for
> fastening straps to tie down baggage.
>
> Best Regards, Ray Montagne
> Cupertino, CA
>
> ========================================================================
> ===
>
> Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
> Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
> Build Status: Rudder completed
> Elevator Completed
> Stabilizer Completed
> Flaps Completed
> Ailerons Completed
> Right Wing Under Completed
> Right Wing Tip Completed
> Left Wing Under Construction
>
> ========================================================================
> ===
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
I completely agree about rearward stowed baggage. Keep in mind that it's not
only the mass of the object but ti's velocity. My brother was injured by
loose change from his dashboard in an auto accident at about 1/3 of the
speed of even a landing accident.
When the thread of a folding bike came up I cringed at the thought of it
coming forward. Don't even want to think about a battery in the tail coming
up to visit me!
Ron DeWees
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Corriveau" <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
> > I think there is a lesson there for all of us. My plane is currently
> > back in my workshop; one of the jobs on the list is to make a cargo net
> > to prevent baggage items becoming missiles.
>
> Indeed!
>
> I have a cargo net to close off the baggage shelf, but that isn't safe
> enough for something hard/heavy like a towbar - or fire extinguisher. I
> chose to locate my fire extinguisher there and did so reluctantly -- but
the
> shelf just behind the pax was the only place where I could be sure to
reach
> after an accident, assuming shoulder strap tightly attached, etc..
>
> I made the installation more secure by doubly attaching the braket that
> comes with it (plastic! useless) to a specially-installed 'L' extrusion
> under the shelf, and I also added a metal braket. Probably even better
would
> be to make a small 'bulkhead' wall that cups the extinguisher and would
hold
> it against a sudden deceleration regardless of any brakets coming
> loose/open.
>
> Other heavy objects belong in the wing lockers imho. My personal rule now
> becomes that nothing goes on the baggage shelf that I wouldn't want
hitting
> me in the back of the head at a great rate of knots! ;-)
>
> Glad to hear that the towbar/missle missed you, Phil!
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
I just throw my empty beer bottles out the window when I done with 'em!
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Frank:
Your comment on the direction of the airflow at the radiator (as shown by
oil stains) has finally kick-started my long ago aero engineering education.
The sharp edge of the vertical radiator support must be separating the flow
that should be coming into the radiator. How about adding a rounded
extension at the front edge, so it resembles the leading edge of a highly
cambered airfoil, one with a generous nose radius. Sort of a comma shape.
It should be fairly easy to make up a test installation and try it. Easier
than relocating the rad anyway.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Yup, no argument there.
>
> I just never knew that running at those temps was a problem. Stratus after
> has recommended a max water temp of 230F...too hot for my comfort so I
> settled at 210F as a reasonable compromise....But I will check the head
> bolts routinly from now on.
>
> Yes the rad set up has three issues.
> 1) right behind the muffler/hot air from lower cowl
> 2) Not in a static pressure rcovery duct (turns velocity pressure into
> available static)
> 3) Too close to the prop, hence the air is going sidways at that
> point...Proven because I have the crankcase breather exiting at the lower
> left corner of the cowl...oil get on the left wheelpant, that's almost a
45
> degree angle!!!
>
> Fixing this setup has always been one of those "get round to it"
> projects...Maybe your temp recommendation has pushed this to the top of
the
> pile....right behind the distributor?
>
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ramperf@aol.com [mailto:Ramperf@aol.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com
>
> Frank
> I saw the configuration of the 601 and it seems to me that the radiator
and
> the placement of the muffler, in front of the radiator, and no ducting is
> not the most reliable setup. Mybe you have never blown a head gasket
but....
> How many times have you checked your head bolts? How much have they
> stretched? My point is things move with heat and cooling and that engine
at
> that temp things move alot. Don't take my word for it check em! And also
> look at the anniling of the head and block which is from the head gasket
> moving! Ron
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary K" <flyink@efortress.com>
Funny, nobody read the very first words in the Stratus manual -
"Warning:Stratus makes no claims of suitability, application, or
performance when Stratus engines are used as a power source for aircraft.
When you use the engine in this application, you do so at your own risk."
You mean you guys have been trying to FLY with one of these? That's crazy!
Gary K.
Pelican PL w/Stratus
Message 23
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| Subject: | Continuing cooling problems :o( |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
True, but it might be warm air from the cowling discharge which may make the
result less than positive.
Worth a try though.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: George Swinford [mailto:grs-pms@comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Continuing cooling problems :o(
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford"
--> <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Frank:
Your comment on the direction of the airflow at the radiator (as shown by
oil stains) has finally kick-started my long ago aero engineering education.
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/3/03 12:19 PM, "PAULROD36@msn.com" <PAULROD36@msn.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
>
> If the possibility of water puddling at the rib/spar junction is something
> you want to take care of, just drill a #20 hole at the corner (NOT touching
> rib or spar), then insert about a 16-penny nail in there, and GENTLY bring
> the nail towards the rear. You'll create a small funnel, with a very minor
> venturi effect, that will suction the water out nicely. Take a look at the
> average old leaky C-150, and you'll likely see one just ahead of each
> bulkhead.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601Corvair, working on the wings
>
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the great tip!
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: XL wing tank filler hole |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/3/03 7:40 AM, "Rico Voss" <vozzen@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
>
> Ray,
> One more comment on the gap between skin and filler
> neck.... Our local Tech Counselor advised to make
> sure that there is drainage (inboard, with the
> dihedral) along the bottom of the wing spar. In other
> words, dont "cork" it so tight as to dam up any water
> that gets inside the wing. (they're called limber
> holes in the marine industry)
>
> It looks near impossible to get a tight seal in the
> gap. The tank flange just isnt parallel with the
> skin. I put a piece of 1/8" flat rubber gasket in,
> but it's snug on one side, loose on the other. Just
> one of those things we'll live with.
>
> I noticed on the factory demo, the silicone they'd
> used to seal the gap had loosened, with shifting of
> the tank. So it goes...
>
> --Rico
>
Hi Rico,
Good points! Thanks for the great tips!
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
Message 26
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| Subject: | Don't throw it away Philip!!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
<ppolstra@mindspring.com>
>
> The plane is not rebuildable. I have pictures for anyone interested.
Here
> is a summary of the damage. Nosegear bent aft into the radiator deforming
> bottom of fuselage. Both mains bent aft, possible damage to the spar.
Deep
> dents in both center wing leading edges from trees I hit. Dents in tears
in
> both outboard wing sections. Canopy cracked with large hole where towbar
> shot through. Elevator dented by tops of trees that bounced off canopy
and
> continued aft. Instrument panel bent.
>
> BTW, I didn't realize it before, but the seatbelt attach point on the
> outboard side failed. That is why I put my knee through the tachometer.
>
> Salvagable from the plane: both Bing carbs, prop hub, one prop blade,
> avionics, rear fuselage minus elevator, control stick, canopy hinges,
> instruments except tach, aileron bellcranks, rudder, rudder petals,
brakes,
> wheels, engine accessories, elevator trim, and seats.
Hello Philip,
as a scratch builder I start to salivate at the very thought of what you
have there! Alas, I am on the other side of the big pond...
Apart from the above you have most of the wing ribs, rear and nose, just
drill the rivets out and shift your rivet spacing by two cm when building
the new ones. When you strip the wings check both outer spars, might be
salvagable, if yes just put new skins on. Get a new centre spar from ZAC.
De-skin stabilizer, half a sheet of 16 thou will see it good as new. What
about the front fuse sides? Salvagable? If they are crumpled at the front,
just cut it of by a good measure, don't forget that Chris H. allows you to
splice sheets. Overlap them nicely and put an L-angle behind them, rivet
nice and tight. Use 25 thou instead of 16 if you want to.
Canopy, the frame should still be okay, locking mechanisms? You have 80 %
airframe left, you will be way faster rebuilding it than it took to build in
the first place. Like Chris H. says, it is neither a jet, nor a Swiss watch!
Strip her down, move your rivet spacing one cm, or two, put some extra
rivets in for good measure and get what you can't salvage from ZAC. And beef
up those seat-belt attach points while you are at it!
My five cents worth :-)
Cheers,
Chris
Zodiac 601 UL TD Kit flying,
Zodiac 601 HD Special Scratch flying,
KISS (601XL Special) TD 30%
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator placement EA 81 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
>
> So to confirm you still have the rad in the center of the plane, i.e you
> just moved it backwards and not sideways to get it under the wing proper?
>
> What size alu tube did you use? Was it 1" or 1.25 inch?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
Hello Frank,
the tube diameter is 1'', and the radiator on the centreline with the
leading edge under the rear spar, ala P51. On the ground you hardly see it,
in the air your a long way from anybody who could take offense, and with a
cool engine I can put that little bit of extra power on to overcome the drag
;-)
Cheers, Chris
Message 28
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Perry M. Chappano" <polestar@prodigy.net>
Keep that fish in mind if the FAA ever comes calling.
Perry Chappano
N9961 - Zenair Zodiac 601XL
NC32372 - 1940 Porterfield LC-65
Do not archive
"Leo J. Corbalis" wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>
> We need lawyers like a fish needs a bicycle.Do not archive.
>
> Leo Corbalis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: litigation
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
> >
> > >Right with you -----. Not far from time for a class action suit. do not
> archive
> >
> > Please don't even contemplate this sort of thing. We're all building
> EXPERIMENTAL a/c and know (or at least should know) that the hobby brings
> certain risks. Manage the risks to the best of your ability even if it
> means choosing a different power plant, but don't start us down the road
> that ruined certificated a/c.
> >
> > Most of us build because we can't afford the certificated stuff, don't
> take the homebuilding avenue away.
> >
> > Respectfully Jeff
> >
> >
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Don't throw it away Philip!!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/03 10:40:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chrisoz@gmx.net
writes:
> just
> drill the rivets out and shift your rivet spacing by two cm when building
> the new ones
I am about to reskin my wings and made that suggestion to ZAC
and they did not recomend that. I thought it was a good idea but
they like going back into the same hole better and use the old
skin as a template......that is the plan right now.
I got my .025 and may start drilling in the AM.
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html">My Home Page
http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
Message 30
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Hi Gang,
Some of you may remember a thread I started a while
ago asking how to integrate a locking mechanism with
the XL style of canopy installation.
Well, here it is, I did that earlier today.
Those of you who are interested can see this on my web
site. Follow the link to the canopy section under
"New" and select Part IV.
Michel
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
do not archive
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Don't throw it away Philip!!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
It isn't clear if the spars were damaged or not. The fact that both mains
were bent might indicate some internal damage as well.
I do think that the plane is a goldmine for a scratch builder.
I'm still struggling with the insurance company. They sent me a letter
trying to say that there was a "question of coverage" for my engine failure.
It seems they would rather have you run out of gas and then there is no such
question.
I'm not looking to sue Stratus. If the underwriter wants to weasel out of
paying a legit claim for a policy that was purchased in good faith then it
is probably lawyer time.
BTW, I informed the factory about the seatbelt failure. They will pass it
along to CH. They also have offered a substantial discount on a new kit.
Nice to see they understand customer service. Perhaps they should talk to
the underwriter.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
<ppolstra@mindspring.com>
>
> The plane is not rebuildable. I have pictures for anyone interested.
Here
> is a summary of the damage. Nosegear bent aft into the radiator deforming
> bottom of fuselage. Both mains bent aft, possible damage to the spar.
Deep
> dents in both center wing leading edges from trees I hit. Dents in tears
in
> both outboard wing sections. Canopy cracked with large hole where towbar
> shot through. Elevator dented by tops of trees that bounced off canopy
and
> continued aft. Instrument panel bent.
>
as a scratch builder I start to salivate at the very thought of what you
have there! Alas, I am on the other side of the big pond...
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Weatherstrip adhesive |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Hello again,
I'd like to know what you used for glueing the rubber
seals (weatherstrips) to the canopy.
I tried to find the Loctite Strip'n Seal as specified
in Zenair's instructions, but I could'nt.
Thanks!
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | For Sale - 601HDS PARTIAL Kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don" <grandpanma@earthlink.net>
I HAVE REDUCED THE PRICE AGAIN.
For Sale
601HDS partial Kit
1). Complete Tail Kit: (Finished) Paid $300.00
***********Will sell for $100.00 *************
1a). The complete Horizontal Stabilizer W/flush electric trim tab.
(Finished) Paid: $1495.00
****** Will sell for $775.00 ************
2). Wing & Aileron Kit: ( Finished skeleton of one wing) Paid $4580.00
******** Will sell for $2900.00 *************
Will Sell everything for: $3125.00 or Best Reasonable Offer.
Plus Boxing up & Shipping, if needed.
I live in Puckett, MS. That's about 25 miles south-east of Jackson, MS.
E-mail address: grandpanma@earthlink.net
Phone No.: 601-591-1589
P.O. Box 194
Puckett, MS. 39151
Thanks, Don Vough
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your just Jealous because the voices only talk to ME!
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