---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/04/03: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:35 AM - Re: Don't throw it away Philip!!! (Don Honabach) 2. 01:20 AM - Re: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) (Phil & Michele Miller) 3. 02:46 AM - Re: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) (Don Honabach) 4. 02:48 AM - Re: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) (Elwood140@aol.com) 5. 04:15 AM - Re: Unsecured baggage (Grant Corriveau) 6. 04:31 AM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (Philip Polstra) 7. 06:31 AM - Re: Wing Tanks (Bill Morelli) 8. 06:48 AM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (Larry McFarland) 9. 08:47 AM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (Ed) 10. 10:50 AM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (Michel Therrien) 11. 12:56 PM - Re: Don't throw it away Philip!!! (Gary Gower) 12. 01:04 PM - IMHO (Gary Gower) 13. 01:46 PM - Front-opening canopy misfit (Paul Hartl) 14. 02:10 PM - Re: Don't throw it away Philip!!! (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.) 15. 02:43 PM - Re: Front-opening canopy misfit (Michel Therrien) 16. 02:55 PM - Re: Front-opening canopy misfit (Larry McFarland) 17. 03:17 PM - Aileron flutter (Jeff Paden) 18. 04:36 PM - Hole Layout (DVanvoorhi@aol.com) 19. 05:50 PM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (Bill Steer) 20. 06:47 PM - Re: hole layout (Dabusmith@aol.com) 21. 07:38 PM - 601HD lower front longeron (Bill Steer) 22. 08:28 PM - Re: Aileron flutter (Rich) 23. 08:35 PM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 24. 11:11 PM - Re: Aileron flutter (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Don't throw it away Philip!!! From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" >> I'm not looking to sue Stratus. If the underwriter wants to weasel out of paying a legit claim for a policy that was purchased in good faith then it is probably lawyer time. What insurance company are you using? What is their basis for denying the claim? Always nice to know those that stand behind the intent of the policy versus those that look for ways out. It might also help others to verify that they actually have real coverage versus just thinking they have coverage. This stuff drives me nuts because insurance should be exactly for this type of stuff (insuring against major loss, not minor cost). Also, going back to my previous statement, everyone hates lawyers until they need one :) Don -----Original Message----- From: Philip Polstra [mailto:ppolstra@mindspring.com] Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Don't throw it away Philip!!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" --> It isn't clear if the spars were damaged or not. The fact that both mains were bent might indicate some internal damage as well. I do think that the plane is a goldmine for a scratch builder. I'm still struggling with the insurance company. They sent me a letter trying to say that there was a "question of coverage" for my engine failure. It seems they would rather have you run out of gas and then there is no such question. I'm not looking to sue Stratus. If the underwriter wants to weasel out of paying a legit claim for a policy that was purchased in good faith then it is probably lawyer time. BTW, I informed the factory about the seatbelt failure. They will pass it along to CH. They also have offered a substantial discount on a new kit. Nice to see they understand customer service. Perhaps they should talk to the underwriter. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > > The plane is not rebuildable. I have pictures for anyone interested. Here > is a summary of the damage. Nosegear bent aft into the radiator > deforming bottom of fuselage. Both mains bent aft, possible damage to > the spar. Deep > dents in both center wing leading edges from trees I hit. Dents in > tears in > both outboard wing sections. Canopy cracked with large hole where > towbar shot through. Elevator dented by tops of trees that bounced > off canopy and > continued aft. Instrument panel bent. > as a scratch builder I start to salivate at the very thought of what you have there! Alas, I am on the other side of the big pond... direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:08 AM PST US From: "Phil & Michele Miller" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" I've participated on this list for a while now and have tried unsuccessfully to figure out what IMHO means. Sorry, but curiosity has finally got the better of me. Phil Miller New Zealand DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Frisby Subject: Zenith-List: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" This discussion of unsecured items brings to mind the danger of fixed ballast in the tail, often necessary for balancing heavy engines. If these fixtures cannot be secured sufficiently that a crash impact wouldn't release them, then they should be engineered to break up into small pieces before releasing. Frangable ballast, such as bags of shot could be used. Of course, even an intact bag of lead shot would be a missle, it would need to be situated and supported so that the bag would rupture and empty before it's fixture would fail. IMHO Jim direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Phil - IMHO - In my humble opinion. Don -----Original Message----- From: Phil & Michele Miller [mailto:millerpg@ps.gen.nz] Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" --> I've participated on this list for a while now and have tried unsuccessfully to figure out what IMHO means. Sorry, but curiosity has finally got the better of me. Phil Miller New Zealand DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Frisby Subject: Zenith-List: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" This discussion of unsecured items brings to mind the danger of fixed ballast in the tail, often necessary for balancing heavy engines. If these fixtures cannot be secured sufficiently that a crash impact wouldn't release them, then they should be engineered to break up into small pieces before releasing. Frangable ballast, such as bags of shot could be used. Of course, even an intact bag of lead shot would be a missle, it would need to be situated and supported so that the bag would rupture and empty before it's fixture would fail. IMHO Jim direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:04 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com Phil, IMHO is cyberspeak for 'in my humble opinion'. Larry Wood 701 aborning Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List:Unsecured baggage From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > From: "Ron DeWees" > ...Don't even want to think about a battery in the tail coming > up to visit me! Good point! FWIW .... I had originally planned to 'velcro' my batteries into their racks in the tail section - as suggested by 'Electric Bob' in his book that many of us are familiar with. Chris Heintz 'strongly suggested' that I use metal straps when he sent back the approval for my battery mod. And I did. You can probably lift the entire aircraft by the batteries now! Anyways - hopefully secure enough to withstand a several G impact at least. -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:42 AM PST US From: "Philip Polstra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Weatherstrip adhesive --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" I used 3M automotive weatherstrip adhesive. I bought it at the Advance Auto down the street from my house. Seems to have worked pretty well. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien I'd like to know what you used for glueing the rubber seals (weatherstrips) to the canopy. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:33 AM PST US From: Bill Morelli Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Morelli Ray, I don't know if it is applicable to your tank sealing problem but on my HDS I sealed the tank filler necks (all 3) to the skins by fabricating circular fairings and then sealing them with silicone. You can see photos of this on my web site (address below). Just follow the construction link. Regards, Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus - Vermont - 254.3 flight hrs. - 365 landings, 1 ON ICE!!) web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ At 06:24 PM 7/2/2003 -0700, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > > > > > Actually, vented tanks collect water as the result of moisture > condensation. > > Happens with each heat cycle, day/night. Good to drain a sample prior to > > flight, as in preflight check. > > > > Jerry, 701SP in work > > > >Thanks to all who have responded on and off list regarding this issue. > >Sorry but I think some folks are not understanding that it is not water in >the tank that is a concern. As stated before, the tanks are sealed (save >for the overflow vent). The issue is that of moisture flowing through the >gap and collecting inside of the wing which could cause potential corrosion >problems, not to mention out of balance issues if the quantity was >significant. Add a little dust and then there might even be mud in the >wing. Think of this as more of having an inspection plate on top of the >wing that is not sealed and forget that the fuel tank was ever mentioned and >then you'll have a true grasp of the issue. > >To restate, I am not in the least concerned about integrity of the tank. I >am concerned about long term integrity of the wing. Thanks for all of the >responses and especially to those of you who contributed information >relevant to the issue of concern. > > >DO NOT ACHIVE > >Best Regards, Ray Montagne >Cupertino, CA > >=========================================================================== > >Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300 >Construction Log & Photos: >Build Status: Rudder completed > Elevator Completed > Stabilizer Completed > Flaps Completed > Ailerons Completed > Right Wing Under Completed > Right Wing Tip Completed > Left Wing Under Construction > >=========================================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:45 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Weatherstrip adhesive --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Therrien" Subject: Zenith-List: Weatherstrip adhesive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > Hello again, > > I'd like to know what you used for glueing the rubber > seals (weatherstrips) to the canopy. > > I tried to find the Loctite Strip'n Seal as specified > in Zenair's instructions, but I could'nt. > > Thanks! > > Michel Michel, I found the stuff at Wallmart in the paint and adhesives section. Larry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:03 AM PST US From: "Ed" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Weatherstrip adhesive --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed" Michel. "I'd like to know what you used for glueing the rubber seals (weatherstrips) to the canopy" I used 1300L which is a general adhesive used in aviation for gluing de-ice/anti-ice boots and door seals etc. A 3M product and is excellent even if a little messy to apply. fwiw. Ed 601hds/lyc ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:46 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Weatherstrip adhesive --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien I went back to Walmart in the paint and adhesive section and found several Loctite products that are Adhesive/sealant. They are not called Stick'n Seal and they are targeted to Plumbers, Handymans and Cloth. So, I did'nt purchase that. However, I found a Weatherstrip adhesive from Permatex that I bought. Anybody used that? Michel --- Larry McFarland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > Michel, > I found the stuff at Wallmart in the paint and > adhesives section. > Larry > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:35 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Don't throw it away Philip!!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Is the same all over the world... The insurance companys work is divided in two main goals: 1.- to SELL the insurance as expensive as they can (extra prime, for more danger). 2.- and most important for them TO AVOID PAYING, doesnt matter what... We need to be expert lawyers (not normal honest citizens) to buy the correct policy, and hire a lawyer bureau to collect the (left over)money if something happens. I only have 3th party damage insurance, I fly, drive (& live) at my own risk, if something happens the damaged person has to fight my insurance co. I will repair my damage, hate to live in false ilusions and pay for them. Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. --- Philip Polstra wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > > > It isn't clear if the spars were damaged or not. The fact that both > mains > were bent might indicate some internal damage as well. > > I do think that the plane is a goldmine for a scratch builder. > > I'm still struggling with the insurance company. They sent me a > letter > trying to say that there was a "question of coverage" for my engine > failure. > It seems they would rather have you run out of gas and then there is > no such > question. > > I'm not looking to sue Stratus. If the underwriter wants to weasel > out of > paying a legit claim for a policy that was purchased in good faith > then it > is probably lawyer time. > > BTW, I informed the factory about the seatbelt failure. They will > pass it > along to CH. They also have offered a substantial discount on a new > kit. > Nice to see they understand customer service. Perhaps they should > talk to > the underwriter. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > > > > > The plane is not rebuildable. I have pictures for anyone > interested. > Here > > is a summary of the damage. Nosegear bent aft into the radiator > deforming > > bottom of fuselage. Both mains bent aft, possible damage to the > spar. > Deep > > dents in both center wing leading edges from trees I hit. Dents in > tears > in > > both outboard wing sections. Canopy cracked with large hole where > towbar > > shot through. Elevator dented by tops of trees that bounced off > canopy > and > > continued aft. Instrument panel bent. > > > as a scratch builder I start to salivate at the very thought of what > you > have there! Alas, I am on the other side of the big pond... > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:25 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Zenith-List: IMHO --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Is something we learn, very usefull to understand, here are a few I have collected, maybe I have missed some, I have collect them since several years of e-mail: ASAP..................As soon as possible RTFM..................Read the Fuckin' Manual PITA....................Pain in the ass BTW....................By the way BFN.....................Bye, for now OTOH.................On the other hand OTTH..................On the third hand FWIW..................For what it's worth FYI.......................For Your information RSN....................Real Soon Now MLA....................Multi Letter Acronym WYSIWYG..........What you see is what you get OIC......................Oh, I see! IMO......................In my opinion IMHO...................In my humble opinion [the speaker is never humble] IMCO...................In my considered opinion g,d&r ..................grinning, ducking, and running OOTB.................Out of the box LOL.....................Laugh Out loud PMFJI.................Pardon me for jumping in (to a conversation) TIA......................Thanks in advance ROFLMAO.........Rolling On Floor Laughing My Ass Off LMK....................Let Me Know .....................Smiling .....................grinning ..................big f---in' grin .................very big grin Saludos Gary Gower --- Phil & Michele Miller wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" > > > I've participated on this list for a while now and have tried > unsuccessfully to figure out what IMHO means. > > Sorry, but curiosity has finally got the better of me. > Phil Miller > New Zealand > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Frisby > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Fixed Ballast too (was unsecured baggage) > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" > > > This discussion of unsecured items brings to mind the danger of fixed > > ballast in the tail, often necessary for balancing heavy engines. > > If these fixtures cannot be secured sufficiently that a crash impact > wouldn't release them, then they should be engineered to break up > into > small > pieces before releasing. Frangable ballast, such as bags of shot > could > be > used. Of course, even an intact bag of lead shot would be a missle, > it > would need to be situated and supported so that the bag would rupture > and > empty before it's fixture would fail. > > IMHO > Jim > > > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:42 PM PST US From: "Paul Hartl" Subject: Zenith-List: Front-opening canopy misfit --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" List, Has anyone else had trouble fitting the ZAC forward-opening canopy kit to an older HD/HDS 601? In particular, the canopy side frames (6C2-3) are too long - perhaps these are for an XL? The distance from the pivot point to B2 (the slanting upper rear fuselage tube) on mine is 1195mm, but the canopy side frame is 1205mm from pivot to rear. There appears to be a small gap indicated between the rear of the canopy side frame and B2 on page 6-C-3, but no dimension given. An inch, perhaps? Anyone with a completed forward-opening canopy - what is the gap on yours? Also, how high above the upper front longeron is the bottom of the canopy side frame at the pivot point? I called Nic about this, and although he was willing to exchange my side frames for shorter ones, he seemed kind of confused and asked that I send him all the dimensions. I did on Tuesday, but haven't had a reply yet. Thanks, Paul Hartl, 601HDS, Jabiru 3300 Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage nearly complete FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/ email: pdhartl@mindspring.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org Sun Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:52 PM PST US From: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Don't throw it away Philip!!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." You got it, Gary. I didn't have auto insurance for 20 years in California. I saved more than $20,000. I probably won't have insurance on the plane either. Insurance is one of capitalism's biggest rip-offs. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Don't throw it away Philip!!! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Is the same all over the world... The insurance companys work is > divided in two main goals: > 1.- to SELL the insurance as expensive as they can (extra prime, for > more danger). > 2.- and most important for them TO AVOID PAYING, doesnt matter what... > > > We need to be expert lawyers (not normal honest citizens) to buy the > correct policy, and hire a lawyer bureau to collect the (left > over)money if something happens. > > I only have 3th party damage insurance, I fly, drive (& live) at my own > risk, if something happens the damaged person has to fight my insurance > co. > > I will repair my damage, hate to live in false ilusions and pay for > them. > > Saludos > Gary Gower > Do not archive. > > > --- Philip Polstra wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > > > > > > It isn't clear if the spars were damaged or not. The fact that both > > mains > > were bent might indicate some internal damage as well. > > > > I do think that the plane is a goldmine for a scratch builder. > > > > I'm still struggling with the insurance company. They sent me a > > letter > > trying to say that there was a "question of coverage" for my engine > > failure. > > It seems they would rather have you run out of gas and then there is > > no such > > question. > > > > I'm not looking to sue Stratus. If the underwriter wants to weasel > > out of > > paying a legit claim for a policy that was purchased in good faith > > then it > > is probably lawyer time. > > > > BTW, I informed the factory about the seatbelt failure. They will > > pass it > > along to CH. They also have offered a substantial discount on a new > > kit. > > Nice to see they understand customer service. Perhaps they should > > talk to > > the underwriter. > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > > > > > > > > The plane is not rebuildable. I have pictures for anyone > > interested. > > Here > > > is a summary of the damage. Nosegear bent aft into the radiator > > deforming > > > bottom of fuselage. Both mains bent aft, possible damage to the > > spar. > > Deep > > > dents in both center wing leading edges from trees I hit. Dents in > > tears > > in > > > both outboard wing sections. Canopy cracked with large hole where > > towbar > > > shot through. Elevator dented by tops of trees that bounced off > > canopy > > and > > > continued aft. Instrument panel bent. > > > > > as a scratch builder I start to salivate at the very thought of what > > you > > have there! Alas, I am on the other side of the big pond... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > http://search.yahoo.com > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:19 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Front-opening canopy misfit --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien You need to trim the tubes to fit. You do this by trial and retrial. Take care of not removing too much because as you trim, the top of the tube becomes not only lower, but more forward. You may also have to adjust the canopy (trim). Start with the rear tube. For tube fitting adjustment, you need to bend or unbend the tube a bit so it matches the curvature of the bubble and also you need to control the width so the width fits the latches on the fuselage longerons. I made a simple tool with pieces of 2X4 to play with the tube bending for these adjustments (see my canopy section). The canopy bubbles are blowned, not formed. So I would'nt be surprise that no bubble is exactly the same as the next one. This is why I think it's normal to adjust the tubes. Good luck and fun! Michel --- Paul Hartl wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" > > > List, > > Has anyone else had trouble fitting the ZAC > forward-opening canopy kit to an older > HD/HDS 601? In particular, the canopy side frames > (6C2-3) are too long - perhaps > these are for an XL? The distance from the pivot > point to B2 (the slanting upper rear > fuselage tube) on mine is 1195mm, but the canopy > side frame is 1205mm from > pivot to rear. There appears to be a small gap > indicated between the rear of the > canopy side frame and B2 on page 6-C-3, but no > dimension given. An inch, > perhaps? Anyone with a completed forward-opening > canopy - what is the gap on > yours? Also, how high above the upper front > longeron is the bottom of the canopy > side frame at the pivot point? > > I called Nic about this, and although he was willing > to exchange my side frames for > shorter ones, he seemed kind of confused and asked > that I send him all the > dimensions. I did on Tuesday, but haven't had a > reply yet. > > Thanks, > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:51 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Front-opening canopy misfit --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hartl" Subject: Zenith-List: Front-opening canopy misfit > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" > > List, > > Has anyone else had trouble fitting the ZAC forward-opening canopy kit to an older > HD/HDS 601? In particular, the canopy side frames (6C2-3) are too long - perhaps > these are for an XL? The distance from the pivot point to B2 (the slanting upper rear > fuselage tube) on mine is 1195mm, but the canopy side frame is 1205mm from > pivot to rear. There appears to be a small gap indicated between the rear of the > canopy side frame and B2 on page 6-C-3, but no dimension given. An inch, > perhaps? Anyone with a completed forward-opening canopy - what is the gap on > yours? Also, how high above the upper front longeron is the bottom of the canopy > side frame at the pivot point? > > Thanks, > > > Paul Hartl, 601HDS, Jabiru 3300 > Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage nearly complete > FS2002 Aircraft Website: http://home.mindspring.com/~pdhartl/ > email: pdhartl@mindspring.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org > Sun Valley, Idaho 208-788-9147 Paul, I just measured my canopy pivot point to forward edge of B2 at the armrest and have a 1220mm distance. My airframe built per plans is exactly 1205mm pivot to end, so you may see little change in the standard canopy side-frame length. I doubt that this would imply you'd have more serious problems to deal with if you shortened the frames by the difference between us in pivot center to B2. Just be sure to keep your canopy rearward enough to afford a good opening angle. I ended up with only 60-65-degrees Pictures available at www.macsmachine.com. Larry McFarland - 601hds ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:08 PM PST US From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" I hope some one on this list can help me a bit here. We just spent the last 6 months rebuilding our CH-300 and took her for a test flight yesterday. During the test flight we ran into a problem. At about 130 mph our ailerons started to flutter. Not badly, but enough that I knew something was not quite right. We landed safely and checked all the cables etc. We found that when the stick was centered we had both ailerons in a slightly up position. I thought this was the problem so I adjusted the rods so that both ailerons were level with the top of the wing when the stick was centered. I tested her again and found that the flutter problem was now even worse than before. They flutter at about 120 mph now. Does anyone have any idea what I may be doing wrong and how I can fix this problem?=0D =0D Thank you for any help you can offer. If you would like you can email me off the list at jeffpaden@madbbs.com=0D =0D Jeff Paden ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:30 PM PST US From: DVanvoorhi@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Hole Layout --> Zenith-List message posted by: DVanvoorhi@aol.com Radio Shack has 1/8" diameter rare earth magnets (64-1895 package of 2). I'm using them to transfer hole locations between structure and skin. Tape one magnet to the structure at the desired location. Put the skin in position, get the other magnet close, and it will leap out of your hand and position itself over the spot. Trace the outline of the magnet on the skin with a fine "Sharpie", then eyeball the center of the circle and mark it. Works good for me. Also handy for establishing endpoints of layout lines. Dirk in Riverside CA ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:03 PM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Weatherstrip adhesive --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" There are a couple of other things people have tried in this area. One is 3M Weatherstrip adhesive. 3M 847 is popular for many aircraft uses. The other one is Poly-Zap, which you can get in any good hobby shop. There was a thread on this list several years ago about Poly-Zap which you may find helpful. Hope this helps. Bill > I went back to Walmart in the paint and adhesive > section and found several Loctite products that are > Adhesive/sealant. They are not called Stick'n Seal > and they are targeted to Plumbers, Handymans and > Cloth. > > So, I did'nt purchase that. > > However, I found a Weatherstrip adhesive from Permatex > that I bought. Anybody used that? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:10 PM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: hole layout --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com >Tape one magnet to the structure at the desired location. Put the skin=20in position, >get the other magnet close, and it will leap out of your hand and position itself >over the spot. Thanks Dirk That might be a great way to find the Jury strut holes for my lift strut fairings! Other quick methods: You can tape one edge of a piece of clear plastic over the hole(s) so it can swing back out of the way when the skin is positioned. Drill the plastic. Then swing it back over the skin and drill through the holes in the clear plastic. Also, you can draw intersecting lines to the exact center of the hole from the adjoining skin surface with a marker and a straight edge. Then position=20the undrilled skin and redraw the lines using the partial lines on the adjoining surface and your straight edge. The center of the hole will be at the same spot under the intersecting lines. Dave Smith 701 Graham sending in registration forms, planning the painting, unpacking from my move, found hangar! ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:14 PM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD lower front longeron --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" There was recently a post (last few days) that repeated a post from May, 2000. The post mentioned that the 13 x A5 rivets that attach the lower longeron 6F5-4 to the lower middle longeron 6F1-5 had been replaced by seven 3/16" bolts. I've checked both the addendum to my plans and the CAD drawings on the builders site; neither of those mention the change. I'm just at the stage where I'm going to be installing the lower front longerons, so would like to know if this change is documented somewhere. Can somebody refer me to an appropriate document? Thanks very much for any help. Bill ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:10 PM PST US From: "Rich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" Is there any slop whatsoever in the linkages? Are the ailerons balanced? Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" > > I hope some one on this list can help me a bit here. We just spent the last > 6 months rebuilding our CH-300 and took her for a test flight yesterday. > During the test flight we ran into a problem. At about 130 mph our ailerons > started to flutter. Not badly, but enough that I knew something was not > quite right. We landed safely and checked all the cables etc. We found > that when the stick was centered we had both ailerons in a slightly up > position. I thought this was the problem so I adjusted the rods so that > both ailerons were level with the top of the wing when the stick was > centered. I tested her again and found that the flutter problem was now > even worse than before. They flutter at about 120 mph now. Does anyone > have any idea what I may be doing wrong and how I can fix this problem?=0D > =0D > Thank you for any help you can offer. If you would like you can email me > off the list at jeffpaden@madbbs.com=0D > =0D > Jeff Paden > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:19 PM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Weatherstrip adhesive --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" > The other one is Poly-Zap. There was > a thread on this list several years ago about Poly-Zap which you may find > helpful. > Bill ++ I can offer some information on this as I have given clinics on "instant glues" and have used more of the stuff than you can ever imagine. One of my friends said he wouldn't be surprised if I built a house some day with the stuff! Reading from the label on the container, it says, "For specialty plastics" "Ideal for Lexan repairs", "Strong and flexible", etc. etc. Poly Zap (a special version of super glue for "slick" plastics) sure made the job easy for me when I secured the rubber seals to the canopy. After I had the rubber in place and satisfied with the fit, I just went along the rubber strip about every 8", lifted the rubber up far enough to squeeze a small drop of the Poly Zap down in the bottom of the slot, then held the rubber down in place for about 15 seconds or so until the Zap had "gone off" (bonding by a rapid chemical reaction, not drying), then went to the next spot 8" away. After I had these spots "tacked" I went in between each of those with more spots. No need to use the stuff in a continuous amount all the way around. After I had the rubber spotted in along the outside, I lifted the canopy and did a few on the inside (not vary many though). It doesn't take much to completely secure the rubber seal. Don't put enough in there that it pushes out and shows when you press the rubber down while it sets. Using this method, you won't be trying to put some sort of glue along the whole thing and struggling to hold the whole thing in place at the same time. I did some test applications on some of the scrap pieces that I had cut off while fitting the canopy and you'll rip the surface off the rubber before it will come loose from the canopy. There are about 8 different types of Zap instant glues made by Pacer Products (thin, thick, slow, gel, oderless, for nylon and delrin, etc.). Poly Zap is not commonly used for normal wood and plastic model building and thus not regularly stocked by most hobby shops. If you can't find it in stock, wait for them to order it for you. My advice is....... Use ONLY POLY ZAP. DO NOT use the other ZAP brand instant glue types as they are not designed for long term bonding to slick acrylic plastics. The will become brittle and will break loose with time and flexing. Here's a valuable tip. Poly Zap tends to harden in the container sooner than other "instant glues". It's life can be extended much longer if you store it in the refrigerator between uses. Let it come up to room temperature before using it again. Fred Hulen Jabiru 3300, 601HDS 50.5 hours ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:18 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Jeff, This is SERIOUS matter! Any flutter (at any speed) is potentially dangerous at every flight. I will advise to check it directly with Mr. Chris Heintz and ground your airplane untill you find the problem. Recheck everything in the alerion system by the book (plans), even what looks perfect, rebuild what ever is necesary. Please, patience and safety is vital here, no place for partial (and maybe if) testing, we are not Profesional Navy Test Pilots with several experts behind us, we are parents (or grandparents) that will be missed. Saludos Gary Gower --- Jeff Paden wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" > > > I hope some one on this list can help me a bit here. We just spent > the last > 6 months rebuilding our CH-300 and took her for a test flight > yesterday. > During the test flight we ran into a problem. At about 130 mph our > ailerons > started to flutter. Not badly, but enough that I knew something was > not > quite right. We landed safely and checked all the cables etc. We > found > that when the stick was centered we had both ailerons in a slightly > up > position. I thought this was the problem so I adjusted the rods so > that > both ailerons were level with the top of the wing when the stick was > centered. I tested her again and found that the flutter problem was > now > even worse than before. They flutter at about 120 mph now. Does > anyone > have any idea what I may be doing wrong and how I can fix this > problem?=0D > =0D > Thank you for any help you can offer. If you would like you can > email me > off the list at jeffpaden@madbbs.com=0D > =0D > Jeff Paden > > > > > > > > __________________________________