Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:07 AM - Out of Office AutoReply: Zenith-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 07/05/03 ()
2. 04:57 AM - Flutters and pops. (Don Walker)
3. 05:23 AM - Re: Zodiac Flaperons (Graham Byass)
4. 05:54 AM - Re: 912S Hard Starting (Carl Bertrand)
5. 06:34 AM - Connector at B6 (John Livsey)
6. 06:37 AM - Subject: Re: [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Brenton Battles)
7. 06:50 AM - Re: Aileron flutter required 5, (Ray Montagne)
8. 10:06 AM - Re: Flutters and pops. (George Swinford)
9. 11:40 AM - Sold My 601 HDS (Charles Sonberg)
10. 12:04 PM - 601HD for sale (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.)
11. 02:14 PM - Re: Connector at B6 (Leo J. Corbalis)
12. 02:33 PM - Gap in rudder (RJK)
13. 02:53 PM - Re: Gap in rudder (n282rs)
14. 04:05 PM - Re: [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (n282rs)
15. 05:00 PM - fixed the flutter problem (Jeff Paden)
16. 05:05 PM - Re: fixed the flutter problem (Ray Montagne)
17. 06:43 PM - Re: Gap in rudder (Frank Jones)
18. 07:26 PM - Re: [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Frank Jones)
19. 07:26 PM - Rotax 912ULS Tach Trouble (Frank Jones)
20. 11:47 PM - Gas strut (Richard McLachlan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Out of Office AutoReply: Zenith-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 07/05/03 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
On vacation - back in office on Tuesday 15.07.2003
Message 2
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| Subject: | Flutters and pops. |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 06:56:44 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Well, guys, Here is a question I should have asked a while back. There are times
when my HDS will pop loudly and abruptly. Usually it happens when I unwittingly
kick the ball out of the center or am rocked around a little bit. Sometimes
it occurs when I accelerate through about 108 mph. Sometimes when I land, this
seems to "readjust", so to say, as the tailwheel hits the ground.
I have found a number of places on the skins, mostly fuselage sides, which I
imagine could pop like this with changing pressures. But there are other places,
too. I have checked the obvious. The motor mounts are all tight. No loose
rivets.
I think it is just an oilcanning, but it is pretty crisp sounding. Any thoughts.
don Walker HDS 292 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil & Michele Miller
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 1:07 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
Jeff,
For God's sake listen to what you are being told here. If you want more
information, try this link
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/
Scroll down a wee way and read the two articles, "Control Surface
Balancing in Homebuilts" and "Control Surface Flutter Problems".
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
OK, maybe flutter was the wrong word to use here... it was the best way
that I knew to describe the problem. 0D 0D It can not be as bad as
everyone is saying or I would have been dead long ago since I flew a 10
hour flight with the ailerons "fluttering" the entire flight. By
flutter I mean that the ailerons wiggle up and down slightly but
quickly.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Zodiac Flaperons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Byass" <gbyass@cygnus.uwa.edu.au>
Phil
I am from 'Down Under' but I do not know the guy you are chasing.
However I have installed flaperons on my 601HDS - unfortunately it is still
a few months from flying but the system seems pretty bulletproof.
The main changes I have adopted are the use of pushrods for the ailerons and
flaperons with 'mixer' bellcranks in place of the normal bellcranks on the
outboard ends of the centre wing.
I guess flight testing will be the proof but I will have to wait a while.
Graham Byass
Western Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phil Raker
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac Flaperons
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Hello, List:
Do any of you from "Down-Under" know a builder named Charles Furlonger?
I
haven't seen any postings from him on this list. According to a recent
issue
of Zenair News he has a design for drooping the ailerons on a 601 to achieve
flap effect which has been approved by Cris H.
I'd like to contact him to compare his system with the one I'm
building.
I've sent messages twice to the e-mail address that Nick gave me, but have
received no response. Do any of you know Charles, or are any of you
familiar
with his plane/design?
You or he may contact me off-list at: phadr1@yahoo.com
Phil Raker - N556P: HDS/Stratus; about 3/4 complete (trying to get back to
building after flood, job change, and interstate move)
__________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912S Hard Starting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt@mondenet.com>
Hi Phil.
I was at my cottage last week and checked my 1994 maintenance manual. You
and other who corrected me are absolutely right, it states that the
"ignition must cut in between 150 and 220 crank RPM".
Regret posting erroneous info; I had a seniors moment and gave the figure
for spark advance.
Do not archive
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912S Hard Starting
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller"
<millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
>
> Carl,
>
> Rotax Operator's Manual, Page 10-19 states:
>
> "Be aware, no spark below crankshaft speed of 220 rpm. (propeller speed
> of 90 rpm.)."
>
> One thing I have found with the Rotax manuals is that the information is
> all there but it can be extremely difficult to find at times. It has
> just taken me about 25 minutes to find the info above even though I last
> read it only 4 days ago.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
> New Zealand
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Bertrand
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S Hard Starting
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt@mondenet.com>
>
> Hi Phil
> I'm not sure where you got the minimum RPM for a starting spark but I
> recall reading in the installation or maintenance manuals for the 912
> that you need
> 700- 900 RPM. From experience the engine will not start if it does not
> turn at that rate. I don't have my manual with me but I'm pretty certain
> that 200- 300 RPM is insufficient. Hope this helps. Carl 701/912/amphibs
> >
> > UMIDS FROM ADDRESS: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> >
> >
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
> UMIDS FROM ADDRESS: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>
>
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Livsey <jlivsey@bigpond.com>
Bill,
I used parts no's 932-3308 EN3C5F and 932-3310 EN3C5M from Allied
Connectors. They are fairly small (A bit expensive) and are weather
proof and are good for the elevator trim but not nearly heavy enough for
the ruder light.
Their catalog page is at http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=366.pdf
regards john livsey
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo |
Share Available!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles <brentbattles@charter.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Re: Zenith 601 POH Template
Is this manual available in MS Word format?
do not archive
____
I don't know. The only version I have is pdf. You may wish to call
Sebastian or Nick.
Brent
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron flutter required 5, |
MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/5/03 1:24 PM, "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
> The real danger from flutter isn't fatigue failure. Flutter can cause gross
> structural failure in just a few cycles, literally in a fraction of a
> second. I recall seeing an in-cockpit flight test movie of a flutter test on
> a modified Piper twin in which the time between the deliberate pulse of the
> yoke and disintegration of the airplane was only a few frames. The
> professional test pilot escaped by parachute and later showed the film to
> our EAA chapter.
>
True! But one does not negate the other when catastrophic failure does not
occur. The point about cycles still holds true too. Suffice to say that
Flutter is bad for a plethora of reasons!
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flutters and pops. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Don:
Normal deflection of the structure under changing loads also can cause a
skin panel to "oilcan". The aft fuselage skin panels are obvious candidates.
Since you describe it as happening when the ball is displaced, torsional
deflection of the fuselage due to rudder loads might be the explanation.
George
---- Original Message -----
From: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flutters and pops.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
>
> Well, guys, Here is a question I should have asked a while back. There are
times when my HDS will pop loudly and abruptly. Usually it happens when I
unwittingly kick the ball out of the center or am rocked around a little
bit. Sometimes it occurs when I accelerate through about 108 mph. Sometimes
when I land, this seems to "readjust", so to say, as the tailwheel hits the
ground.
> I have found a number of places on the skins, mostly fuselage sides,
which I imagine could pop like this with changing pressures. But there are
other places, too. I have checked the obvious. The motor mounts are all
tight. No loose rivets.
> I think it is just an oilcanning, but it is pretty crisp sounding. Any
thoughts. don Walker HDS 292 hrs.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phil & Michele Miller
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 1:07 AM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller"
<millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
>
> Jeff,
>
> For God's sake listen to what you are being told here. If you want more
> information, try this link
> http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/
> Scroll down a wee way and read the two articles, "Control Surface
> Balancing in Homebuilts" and "Control Surface Flutter Problems".
>
> Cheers,
> Phil Miller
> New Zealand
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Paden
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron flutter
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>
> OK, maybe flutter was the wrong word to use here... it was the best way
> that I knew to describe the problem. 0D 0D It can not be as bad as
> everyone is saying or I would have been dead long ago since I flew a 10
> hour flight with the ailerons "fluttering" the entire flight. By
> flutter I mean that the ailerons wiggle up and down slightly but
> quickly.
>
>
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Sonberg" <2408s@cox-internet.com>
I sold my 601 HDS with Stratus. I wanted to post what I think are good and
bad points
with this aircraft. Well, mine at least.
Good points
1-Easy to build
2-Great factory support
3-Great kits (Received a few wrongs parts, factory immediately corrected)
4-Engine starts easily and was very strong
5-Very fun to fly
6-Great stall characteristics
Bad Points
1-Plans could be better
2-Slow 110 mph
Problems
Had to reinforce upper nose gear shelf as it bent during taxi tests
Oil temps low, she never used oil. The person who bought her used 2
quarts in 10 hours. Any ideas as to why?
Chuck
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
601HD project for sale. Fuselage, wings, tail completed and pre-cover inspection
signed off. Canopy available but not installed. Professional construction. Rotax
912S engine mount. Does not include firewall forward. Instruments included
are Taskem electronic encoding altimeter and Microair 760 (both new). Asking
US $12,900. Located in Northern Arizona.
Dave Pepper
800-514-6953
dave@rockinrimranch.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Connector at B6 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I used a MOLEX connector. I stuffed the female pins, in the bulkhead nylon
block with lithium white grease. Then plug in the male connector and wipe
off any excess. This has worked fine for 7 yrs amd 390 hrs tied down
outside.
Leo Corbalis
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "RJK" <rjk1964@bellsouth.net>
Hello all. I am brand new to the building process and I am currently working on
the 601 XL rudder start kit. I am curious about the gap that is present at
the trailing edge of the rudder just past the ribs? I don't see anything in the
"Starter Kit" instruction guide that mentions this gab or how to close it up.
Am I missing something or is this detail further discussed in the complete
plans?
Any help is appreciated.
Rick
Zodiac 601 XL
Cumming, GA
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Gap in rudder |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n282rs" <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
Rick
If it's that gap I think you are talking about, it's supposed to be there.
You should be able to have a friend shine a flashlight in one end and you
will be able to see it at the other end. You will find the same type of gap
on the elevator, and ailerons.
Randy Stout
VW powered CH 601 HD
n282rs@sbcglobal.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJK" <rjk1964@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Zenith-List: Gap in rudder
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "RJK" <rjk1964@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hello all. I am brand new to the building process and I am currently
working on the 601 XL rudder start kit. I am curious about the gap that is
present at the trailing edge of the rudder just past the ribs? I don't see
anything in the "Starter Kit" instruction guide that mentions this gab or
how to close it up. Am I missing something or is this detail further
discussed in the complete plans?
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> Rick
> Zodiac 601 XL
> Cumming, GA
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n282rs" <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
For you guys looking for a Word version of this.... I did a cut and paste of
the PDF file, then attempted to fix the formatting. I'm not sure if I fixed
everything, but it will get you started. I uploaded it to the Matronics
photoshare. Hopefully it will be available in a day or 2.
Randy Stout
VW powered CH 601 HD
n282rs@sbcglobal.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
<pictures@matronics.com>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Brenton E. Battles <brentbattles@charter.net>
>
>
> Subject: Zenith-List 601 POH Template (pdf)
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/brentbattles@charter.net.07.05.2003/index.html
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include
the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures@matronics.com
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | fixed the flutter problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
=0D
Hello list, I just wanted to thank everyone for all the great feedback you
have given me.=0D
Today we finally fixed our flutter problem. The fix was actually quite
simple. We adjusted our ailerons so that they were both 1 degree below the
top of the wing... which as it turns out makes the exactly level with the
bottom of the wing. Strange that the ailerons are not shaped exactly the
same as the wing, but they are not. This fixed my flutter and we have now
tested the aircraft to a speed of 160 mph which is just below the VNE so we
are very happy now with our CH-300.=0D
=0D
Thanks again for all your help!=0D
=0D
Jeff Paden=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=2E
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: fixed the flutter problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/6/03 5:01 PM, "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>
> =0D
> Hello list, I just wanted to thank everyone for all the great feedback you
> have given me.=0D
> Today we finally fixed our flutter problem. The fix was actually quite
> simple. We adjusted our ailerons so that they were both 1 degree below the
> top of the wing... which as it turns out makes the exactly level with the
> bottom of the wing. Strange that the ailerons are not shaped exactly the
> same as the wing, but they are not. This fixed my flutter and we have now
> tested the aircraft to a speed of 160 mph which is just below the VNE so we
> are very happy now with our CH-300.=0D
> =0D
> Thanks again for all your help!=0D
> =0D
> Jeff Paden=0D
> =0D
That's great news Jeff! Congratulations!
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
The gaps ensure drainage.
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601XL
______________________
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RJK
Subject: Zenith-List: Gap in rudder
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "RJK" <rjk1964@bellsouth.net>
Hello all. I am brand new to the building process and I am currently
working on the 601 XL rudder start kit. I am curious about the gap that
is present at the trailing edge of the rudder just past the ribs? I
don't see anything in the "Starter Kit" instruction guide that mentions
this gab or how to close it up. Am I missing something or is this
detail further discussed in the complete plans?
Any help is appreciated.
Rick
Zodiac 601 XL
Cumming, GA
Message 18
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| Subject: | [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
This is great. I was hoping for a Word version. Thanks. I'll keep an
eye out to see when it gets posted.
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601 XL
______________________
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n282rs
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo
Share Available!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n282rs" <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
For you guys looking for a Word version of this.... I did a cut and
paste of
the PDF file, then attempted to fix the formatting. I'm not sure if I
fixed
everything, but it will get you started. I uploaded it to the Matronics
photoshare. Hopefully it will be available in a day or 2.
Randy Stout
VW powered CH 601 HD
n282rs@sbcglobal.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: [ Brenton E. Battles ] : New Email List Photo
Share
Available!
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> Poster: Brenton E. Battles <brentbattles@charter.net>
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> Subject: Zenith-List 601 POH Template (pdf)
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http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/brentbattles@charter.net.07.05.2003/
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS Tach Trouble |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
I've been having a heck of a time trying to get a Micro-1000 Digital
Tach (same as Tiny-Tach I think) to work properly on my Rotax engine.
I've configured the wire wrap to go around both spark plug wires to one
cylinder so I can do the differential check. It seems to work out ok at
low RPMs but it provides a very unstable readout at higher RPMs, to the
point that it really isn't usable. Has anyone else experimented with
these?
I'm thinking of two alternatives: 1) hooking up the input directly from
the tach pickup provided on the engine - probably need a 10K resistor or
something like that, but I'm not sure if the number of pulses will be
the same so who knows if this will work 2) buying a new analog tach like
2-1/4 UMA. Has anyone had any experience with any of this?
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601XL - oh so close to flying
______________________
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard McLachlan <richard@foxfield.demon.co.uk>
We have a double gas strut that holds the canopy open on our CH601HDS.
The lower gas seal has failed, so we need a new one.
Does anybody know if it is a Zenair part or if not who make it?
--
Richard McLachlan
CH601HDS/R22 G3OQT
Landing Site info at http://www.foxfield.demon.co.uk
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