Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Avex Rivets (RoyN9869L@aol.com)
2. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: A4 and A5 rivets (Michel Therrien)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: Lawyers - Who needs them? (Don Walker)
4. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: A4 and A5 rivets (Ron DeWees)
5. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: A4 and A5 rivets (Pinneo, George)
6. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: A4 and A5 rivets (Pinneo, George)
7. 10:14 AM - Avex rivets (Leo J. Corbalis)
8. 11:11 AM - Re: Movie ()
9. 11:24 AM - Re: Movie ()
10. 12:52 PM - Thinking about moving the rad (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
11. 01:33 PM - Tubes for relocated radiator (George Swinford)
12. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Movie (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
13. 01:46 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Larry McFarland)
14. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: A4 and A5 rivets (Flydog1966@aol.com)
15. 02:47 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Weston, Jim)
16. 02:55 PM - Re: Tubes for relocated radiator (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
17. 03:09 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Jackie B. Johnson)
18. 03:22 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
19. 03:27 PM - Where to buy Solid Rivets (Varun)
20. 03:37 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (John Karnes)
21. 04:00 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Larry McFarland)
22. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Movie (George Swinford)
23. 04:36 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Cy Galley)
24. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Movie (Gary Gower)
25. 06:50 PM - 701 wing skin (Ken Szewc)
26. 07:03 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Larry McFarland)
27. 07:45 PM - Re: 701 wing skin (H. Robert Schoenberger)
28. 07:49 PM - Re: 701 wing skin (Cy Galley)
29. 08:03 PM - Re: 701 wing skin (CBRxxDRV@aol.com)
30. 08:58 PM - Re: 701 wing skin (Ken Szewc)
31. 09:41 PM - Re: 701 wing skin (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: RoyN9869L@aol.com
List Members
Try www.rivetsplus.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
If I remember, Aircraft Spruce sells the US version of
the rivets. Not the UK version specified by Zenair.
I bought mine from Avdel Textron directly (in
Toronto).
Michel
--- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
> If you are building from a kit, ZAC will probably
> send you some at no
> charge. I've run out a couple of times because they
> didn't ship enough for
> the partial kit I ordered at that time. (I ordered
> the tail, wings and
> fuselage separately.)
>
> Otherwise, Aircraft Spruce sells the avex rivets:
>
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php
>
> And so does Wicks:
> http://www.wicksaircraft.com/gotopage.php?page=100
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lawyers - Who needs them? |
Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:03:07 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
<Welcome to the new millenium, Philip. No one gives a damn about anything or
anyone....
Times have a-changed!> Dave
Yeah, Dave, ceptin us! We on the list are undoubtedly the only good guys left
on the planet. I am so glad we have each other. DW
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lawyers - Who needs them?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
Welcome to the new millenium, Philip.No one gives a damn about anything or
anyone....
Times have a-changed!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lawyers - Who needs them?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
<ppolstra@mindspring.com>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Glenn Paul" <glennpaul@hotmail.com>
> >Philip sometimes a letter from an attorney will get the insurance
company's
> >attention but if you decide to sue get a good civil trial lawyer and best
> of
> >luck.
>
> I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. If so, my favorite uncle lives on the
> other side of Atlanta. He isn't afraid of going to court, especially for
> his nephew.
>
> Most of my time lately is spent waiting for people who have no motivation
to
> do their jobs. I'm waiting on the insurance company to pay me, and
waiting
> on the finance company to finish their job so I can get my shiney new
CH2000
> that is sitting at the factory waiting for me.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Listers,
Thanks for the info re resupply of rivets. I bit the bullet this am and
called ZAC and ordered them from there. They cost a bit, but will be at
home with their genetically similar brothers in the rest of the plane ;< }
While I was at it I touched base for some tech support and that made me
feel better too. They seemed as excited as I am at the prospect of another
ZAC plane coming to life in the near future.
Thanks for the help.
Ron DeWees
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
ACS!
GGP
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
Whatever the pedigree of the Avex rivets ACS sells, I've had no issues flying them
for something like 5 years.
GGP
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
While I was building my 601, Iadded some A4 rivets to an order. They were domed
rivets, the same size as the A4 and seemed to be interchangeable. To be on the
safe side, I used them for the skin over the instrument panel. They were fine
until I switched to a front hinged canopy. When I tried to drill them out,
I hit the retained stem which deflected the drill bit, making a mess. I had to
drive out the stem before drilling. With the regular A4, the head just rips off
onto the drill bit and you can pull out the body without messing up the hole.
Leo Corbalis
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <phil@petrasoft.net>
Please see the attached zip file for details.
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
Please see the attached zip file for details.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old catalogue).
Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to make
the rubber hose connections secure)?
Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at the
trailing edge of the wing?
I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop the
front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
fixed to the underside of the fuse.
I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Skykingjfg@aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg@aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
Please see the attached zip file for details.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Tubes for relocated radiator |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Frank:
I have been assuming that a radiator shop could bead the ends of a 1.00 dia. tube.
Have you checked this out already?
George
Do not archive
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hey guys
Think I have almost persuaded "she who must be obeyed" to let me go to
Arlington this W/E.
Think I'll be there sometime Friday pm and leave on Saturday pm.
Silver HDS N6380H...Hope to see some of you there?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Skykingjfg@aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg@aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
Please see the attached zip file for details.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
>
> I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old catalogue).
>
> Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to make
> the rubber hose connections secure)?
>
> Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at the
> trailing edge of the wing?
>
> I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop the
> front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> fixed to the underside of the fuse.
>
> I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
Frank,
I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
12-feet.
(12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The radiator is 38"
rearward
of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or more of the tube to
reach the elbows
at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the radiator front end 1" down from
its normal position between
two .040 angles, 20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to
the firewall.
I really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
angles before hanging
them so the radiator can also be readily moved forward if something requires
I retreat from this.
We all seem to be on the same wave length (cooling issues).
I'm compiling a set of parameters that have direct impact on getting the
engine
cooler on hot days. Lot of research................
Larry McFarland - 601hds
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
> "is there another source for the rivets in low quantity"
Zenith will sell in low quantity, and at .08 and .09 cents each
verses .12 cents from ACS.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the cooling system.
Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily. I think that
George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure fittings a while back.
Jim Weston
McDonough, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old catalogue).
Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to make
the rubber hose connections secure)?
Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at the
trailing edge of the wing?
I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop the
front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
fixed to the underside of the fuse.
I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Skykingjfg@aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg@aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
Please see the attached zip file for details.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Tubes for relocated radiator |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Nope...then again I tend to be cheap!...:)
Good idea though, I might even have acces to a beading tool here at work.
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: George Swinford [mailto:grs-pms@comcast.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: Tubes for relocated radiator
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford"
--> <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Frank:
I have been assuming that a radiator shop could bead the ends of a 1.00 dia.
tube. Have you checked this out already?
George
Do not archive
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jackie B. Johnson" <zjohnson@ucnsb.net>
Larry/george/frank::
Several comments..1. I got a 1 1/4 x 6' length tube at home depot..al.
has worked for 5 years so far!!.Absolutely !! put bead of some type on each
end of tube !! on my first flight, had very tight 2 clamped hose blow off
tube..so don't think of not beading some way..( I was lucky to be able to
borrow a beading tool from my local a&P SHOP ) 2.I get the impression you
guys are just hanging the rads out in the breeze..don't think it will make
much difference where you put it if that's all you're doing..there has been
many excellent articles on rads/cowlings/placements/ect in Contact,RAC/ect
would suggest you take a look at these articles...thgere's some science to
getting flow into and thru rad..( I was supplied a good cowling/rad as part
of my engine package ..NSI ) so I just had to get the location that allowed
good relative flow into/thru rad, and exit to low pressure area to solve my
problems..I'll try next trip to A/P to get some photos to post if anyone is
interestered..drop me a note and I'll sent photos so I don't clog up net..
Jackie N5JZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> > Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> > tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
> >
> > I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
catalogue).
> >
> > Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> > plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to
make
> > the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >
> > Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
the
> > trailing edge of the wing?
> >
> > I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
the
> > front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> > pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> > fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >
> > I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Frank
>
> Frank,
> I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
> 12-feet.
> (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The radiator is 38"
> rearward
> of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or more of the tube to
> reach the elbows
> at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the radiator front end 1" down from
> its normal position between
> two .040 angles, 20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to
> the firewall.
> I really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
> angles before hanging
> them so the radiator can also be readily moved forward if something
requires
> I retreat from this.
> We all seem to be on the same wave length (cooling issues).
> I'm compiling a set of parameters that have direct impact on getting the
> engine
> cooler on hot days. Lot of research................
>
> Larry McFarland - 601hds
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Thanks Larry,
If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition rubber
elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch to
inch and a quarter" transition.
Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
change?
Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc@qconline.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
> aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
> 6061.
>
> I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
> catalogue).
>
> Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
> 1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
> to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
>
> Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
> the trailing edge of the wing?
>
> I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
> the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
> statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
> the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
>
> I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
Frank,
I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The radiator
is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or more
of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the
radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040 angles,
20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved forward
if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that have
direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
research................
Larry McFarland - 601hds
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Where to buy Solid Rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Varun" <vp@inforunner.com>
What's a good source in Canada for buying solid rivets.
Thanks,
varun
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
For what it's worth, when I moved my rad to the rear my cooling problems
actually got worse. Maybe the additional "load" on the water pump hindered
the movement of the solution through the system. All I know is that the
movement of the rad didn't work for me.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
-----
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
Correct, I'm having to find a few rubber elbows and the point on beading
the tube is a good item as well. I don't intend to bend any aluminum tube
tho it would be neat if one could radius around the firewall.
I posted pictures on the subaru page on my site and the journal
part 5 has been updated so far on process.
Won't fly until next spring no matter what.
Keep me posted.
Thanks,
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Thanks Larry,
>
> If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition
rubber
> elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch to
> inch and a quarter" transition.
>
> Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
> change?
>
> Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
> rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
>
> I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc@qconline.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> > Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
> > aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
> > 6061.
> >
> > I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
> > catalogue).
> >
> > Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
> > 1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
> > to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >
> > Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
> > the trailing edge of the wing?
> >
> > I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
> > the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
> > statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
> > the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >
> > I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Frank
>
> Frank,
> I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
> 12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The
radiator
> is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or
more
> of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the
> radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040
angles,
> 20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
> really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
> angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved
forward
> if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
> wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that have
> direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
> research................
>
> Larry McFarland - 601hds
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Frank:
Three of us 601/Stratus builders from Bellevue,WA will be there on Friday.
No doubt we will be talking to you.
George Do not archive
--- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Hey guys
>
> Think I have almost persuaded "she who must be obeyed" to let me go to
> Arlington this W/E.
>
> Think I'll be there sometime Friday pm and leave on Saturday pm.
>
> Silver HDS N6380H...Hope to see some of you there?
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skykingjfg@aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg@aol.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
>
> Please see the attached zip file for details.
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Many people use 3003 tubing as it is soft and doesn't crack as easily as the
tempered stuff.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>
> Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the
cooling system. Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily. I
think that George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure fittings a
while back.
>
> Jim Weston
> McDonough, Ga.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com]
> To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
>
> I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old catalogue).
>
> Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to make
> the rubber hose connections secure)?
>
> Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at the
> trailing edge of the wing?
>
> I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop the
> front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> fixed to the underside of the fuse.
>
> I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skykingjfg@aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg@aol.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
>
> Please see the attached zip file for details.
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Thanks to Matronics, I think we just missed a virus... Is good no
attachments in this list.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
>
> Please see the attached zip file for details.
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 25
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
Is there any way to get the top skin on a 701 wing without some oil canning? I
got it on my first wing and thought that I didn't spend enough time leveling the
ribs, but put in the due diligence on the ribs this time and still can't seem
to find a middle ground before drilling the skin.
Ribs 2,3, and 4 seem like they are 5mm low in the middle even though they are the
same height at the spar and rear channel. As soon as I push the skin down the
skin deforms.
Is this a losing battle, and should I just live with it?
Ken Szewc
701SP 912ULS
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Cy,
The only problem with 3003 is it does crush easily and in the effort to
tighten a clamp down, it does not have enough punch to stay tight as
a larger diameter pipe. 6061-T6 gives more than copper tube with
less work hardening but will hold better if it is properly supported.
I agree, that 3003 is probably much easier for flared fittings of small
diameter and for bending around tight areas, but for me, a 1" straight
36" piece, well supported, should be a 5052 or 6000 series aluminum.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Many people use 3003 tubing as it is soft and doesn't crack as easily as
the
> tempered stuff.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
> >
> > Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the
> cooling system. Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily.
I
> think that George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure fittings
a
> while back.
> >
> > Jim Weston
> > McDonough, Ga.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com]
> > To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com'
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> > Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> > tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
> >
> > I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
catalogue).
> >
> > Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> > plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to
make
> > the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >
> > Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
the
> > trailing edge of the wing?
> >
> > I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
the
> > front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> > pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> > fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >
> > I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Skykingjfg@aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg@aol.com]
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
> >
> > Please see the attached zip file for details.
> >
> >
> > advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
I've got the same problem and when I spoke with Nick at S n F, he suggested
a false top rib about the middle between the two regular full ribs, said
false rib to consist of an L piece bent to conform to the shape of the top
of a standard rib and then rivetede to the spar and the rear channel. The
offending skin would then be riveted to this. I welcome comments from
anyone who's tried this or other means. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail finished,
working on right wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wing skin
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
>
> Is there any way to get the top skin on a 701 wing without some oil
canning? I got it on my first wing and thought that I didn't spend enough
time leveling the ribs, but put in the due diligence on the ribs this time
and still can't seem to find a middle ground before drilling the skin.
> Ribs 2,3, and 4 seem like they are 5mm low in the middle even though they
are the same height at the spar and rear channel. As soon as I push the skin
down the skin deforms.
>
> Is this a losing battle, and should I just live with it?
>
> Ken Szewc
> 701SP 912ULS
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I am not a metal expert but I think you can use some aluminum strips over
the top of the ribs to shim out the differences.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wing skin
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
>
> Is there any way to get the top skin on a 701 wing without some oil
canning? I got it on my first wing and thought that I didn't spend enough
time leveling the ribs, but put in the due diligence on the ribs this time
and still can't seem to find a middle ground before drilling the skin.
> Ribs 2,3, and 4 seem like they are 5mm low in the middle even though they
are the same height at the spar and rear channel. As soon as I push the skin
down the skin deforms.
>
> Is this a losing battle, and should I just live with it?
>
> Ken Szewc
> 701SP 912ULS
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com
In a message dated 7/8/03 10:46:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HRS4@prodigy.net
writes:
> I've got the same problem and when I spoke with Nick at S n F, he suggested
> a false top rib about the middle between the two regular full ribs, said
> false rib to consist of an L piece bent to conform to the shape of the top
> of a standard rib and then rivetede to the spar and the rear channel. The
> offending skin would then be riveted to this. I welcome comments from
> anyone who's tried this or other means. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail finished,
> working on right wing.
>
What metal is used on the 701 skin .016 or .025 ?
I am about to reskin a rebuild project (601HD) with .025
The HD uses .016 and the new XL uses .025.
I found the metal ( 6061 T6 .025 ) locally and it was pretty cheap.
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html">My Home Page
http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
Sal,
The 701 uses .016 aluminum for wing skins. I don't think the thickness is
really the problem, more likely the large space between the ribs and the
slight inconsistency in the ribs (or rib placement).
I used L braces in the right wing to support the skin in between the ribs
(from rib to rib at about the six rivet from the spar) with no rivets to the
skin. The L supports the skin from fully deflecting between the ribs and
keeps it from popping. After riveting everything together I am not really
sure how much I needed it though. When you rivet the nose skin down it has a
lifting effect on the rear portion of the skin due to the angle of the spar
caps compared to the rear wing.
I just wondered if there was a magical way to avoid it all together.
Thanks Ken
>
>
> > I've got the same problem and when I spoke with Nick at S n F, he
suggested
> > a false top rib about the middle between the two regular full ribs, said
> > false rib to consist of an L piece bent to conform to the shape of the
top
> > of a standard rib and then rivetede to the spar and the rear channel.
The
> > offending skin would then be riveted to this. I welcome comments from
> > anyone who's tried this or other means. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail
finished,
> > working on right wing.
> >
>
> What metal is used on the 701 skin .016 or .025 ?
> I am about to reskin a rebuild project (601HD) with .025
> The HD uses .016 and the new XL uses .025.
> I found the metal ( 6061 T6 .025 ) locally and it was pretty cheap.
>
>
> Sal Capra
> Lakeland, FL
> <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html">My Home Page
> http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 wing skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Hap,
When we beguin building the 701, was our first time with an aluminum
plane, we were having second thoughts about the strtucture of the
plane, everything looked so thin and bended like reynolds wrap :-)
Once we built here the first piece (the rudder was brought already from
the factory shop by my brother), a 1/4th of the flapperons, we were
amased how strong and light the plane was coming though, I admire
everyday more the design capabilities of Mr. Heintz...
Well, the only thing we noticed when clecoing the wing skins was the
BIG space betwen the ribs and the oil canning of the skins... our main
concern was about what would happen when the plane was going to get
cleaned with the wetted rag by our club's plane keepers, not the
integity of the wing.
We decided to add false ribs made like my Pouchel... with blue foam and
a very light cover of thin fiberglass (suf board mat) with epoxy (to
prevent melting, just in case a little of gasoline drips [or fumes] get
inside the wing when refueling).
The result was a very light but strong rib and the skins areas solid as
they where built using .250" cromoly :-) not only 0.025" AL (in fact
they were a hair lighter than the aluminum ribs, using the diet scale
to compare weights).
The wings ended better than spected.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
--- "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger"
> <HRS4@prodigy.net>
>
> I've got the same problem and when I spoke with Nick at S n F, he
> suggested
> a false top rib about the middle between the two regular full ribs,
> said
> false rib to consist of an L piece bent to conform to the shape of
> the top
> of a standard rib and then rivetede to the spar and the rear channel.
> The
> offending skin would then be riveted to this. I welcome comments
> from
> anyone who's tried this or other means. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail
> finished,
> working on right wing.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 wing skin
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
> >
> > Is there any way to get the top skin on a 701 wing without some oil
> canning? I got it on my first wing and thought that I didn't spend
> enough
> time leveling the ribs, but put in the due diligence on the ribs this
> time
> and still can't seem to find a middle ground before drilling the
> skin.
> > Ribs 2,3, and 4 seem like they are 5mm low in the middle even
> though they
> are the same height at the spar and rear channel. As soon as I push
> the skin
> down the skin deforms.
> >
> > Is this a losing battle, and should I just live with it?
> >
> > Ken Szewc
> > 701SP 912ULS
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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