Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:26 AM - Thinking about moving the rad (Phil Raker)
2. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Movie (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
3. 09:36 AM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Don Walker)
4. 10:42 AM - 912S engine mount frame (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.)
5. 11:21 AM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (Pinneo, George)
6. 01:26 PM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.)
7. 02:35 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Larry McFarland)
8. 02:49 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Benford2@aol.com)
9. 03:01 PM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (Benford2@aol.com)
10. 04:07 PM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
11. 04:07 PM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.)
12. 04:39 PM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (Gary Gower)
13. 04:51 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
14. 05:34 PM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.)
15. 05:35 PM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.)
16. 06:40 PM - (gpjann@juno.com)
17. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: A4 and A5 rivets (Tim & Diane Shankland)
18. 07:29 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Tim & Diane Shankland)
19. 07:31 PM - Re: 912S engine mount frame (Benford2@aol.com)
20. 07:59 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Cy Galley)
21. 08:57 PM - please edit (Jeff Small)
22. 10:32 PM - MGL Avionics (Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc.)
23. 11:13 PM - Re: Thinking about moving the rad (Don Walker)
24. 11:39 PM - Re: MGL Avionics (Graham Byass)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
Hello, all:
I've also mounted my radiator approximately under the rear spar. Rather
than simple tubes to get coolant to/from the radiator, I'm usingthe same
extrusions that Polaris snowmobiles have mounted underneath their running
boards. Cross section is about 1.5" X .75" (slightly trapezoidal) with very
small ribs on the top (bottom as mounted) of the extrusion and a flange about
.3" wide on each side for riviting. I had a beaded hose nipple welded onto
each end. It makes for a very clean installation and should add some extra
heat rejection (cooling) at the same time. Those 6061-T6 extrusions are
designed to survive in an extremely abusive environment with lots of vibration
and impact. I am confident that they will work well in the CH-601 application.
Phil Raker - N556P: HDS/Stratus
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> I agree, that 3003 is probably much easier for flared fittings of small
> diameter and for bending around tight areas, but for me, a 1" straight
> 36" piece, well supported, should be a 5052 or 6000 series aluminum.
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > Many people use 3003 tubing as it is soft and doesn't crack as easily as
the
> > tempered stuff.
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
> > >
> > > Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the
> > > cooling system. Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily.
> > > I think that George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure
> > > fittings a while back.
__________________________________
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I just read the arrival procedures for Arlington this W/E...says you have to
approach at 90kts at 1200 ft.
Gee I think that means I can only go if I firewall it...:)
Current plans have me there sometime Friday am assuming the guides stay in
the heads!
I'll leave my cell # on the prop in case anyone wants to hook up.
Frank
601 HDS stratus (with Ram heads) 291 hours
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: George Swinford [mailto:grs-pms@comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford"
--> <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Frank:
Three of us 601/Stratus builders from Bellevue,WA will be there on Friday.
No doubt we will be talking to you.
George Do not archive
--- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Hey guys
>
> Think I have almost persuaded "she who must be obeyed" to let me go to
> Arlington this W/E.
>
> Think I'll be there sometime Friday pm and leave on Saturday pm.
>
> Silver HDS N6380H...Hope to see some of you there?
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skykingjfg@aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg@aol.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
>
> Please see the attached zip file for details.
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:35:52 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Me, too. The 3003 collapsed under clamp pressure. DW do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry McFarland
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Cy,
The only problem with 3003 is it does crush easily and in the effort to
tighten a clamp down, it does not have enough punch to stay tight as
a larger diameter pipe. 6061-T6 gives more than copper tube with
less work hardening but will hold better if it is properly supported.
I agree, that 3003 is probably much easier for flared fittings of small
diameter and for bending around tight areas, but for me, a 1" straight
36" piece, well supported, should be a 5052 or 6000 series aluminum.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Many people use 3003 tubing as it is soft and doesn't crack as easily as
the
> tempered stuff.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
> >
> > Be careful in using aluminum tubing for something as important as the
> cooling system. Aluminum cracks from vibration and flexing very easily.
I
> think that George learned this the hard way with his oil pressure fittings
a
> while back.
> >
> > Jim Weston
> > McDonough, Ga.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com]
> > To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com'
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> > Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of aluminium
> > tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is 6061.
> >
> > I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
catalogue).
> >
> > Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a 1"
> > plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings to
make
> > the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >
> > Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
the
> > trailing edge of the wing?
> >
> > I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
the
> > front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a statc
> > pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of the rad,
> > fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >
> > I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Skykingjfg@aol.com [mailto:Skykingjfg@aol.com]
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Movie
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: <Skykingjfg@AOL.com>
> >
> > Please see the attached zip file for details.
> >
> >
> > advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC is crooked When
placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is this normal to counteract
torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight, and in line with the
fuselage?
Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
Dave
Message 5
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| Subject: | 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
Yes, the engine mount must be angled right to counter P-torque, at least on a 912.
GGP
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
Aha. Thanks George. That's what I figured!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pinneo, George" <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912S engine mount frame
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pinneo, George"
<george.pinneo@ngc.com>
>
> Yes, the engine mount must be angled right to counter P-torque, at least
on a 912.
>
> GGP
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
John,
I've been researching some of this and there are some 29 factors
so far that present the overheating problems we've seen.
The one I was most surprised to find was that the 3or 4 anti-freeze
additives deteriorate
and are ineffective in a relatively short period of time. Nitrates improve
heat transfer by preventing
cavitation and bubbles for a 2-year period or so. When this additive
goes, the engine can be overheating near the heads for a time without a good
read on it til it's too late.
I guess the question would be best asked, "How long since you replaced all
of your coolant?"
If your coolant is over 2 years old, take readings on your temps and then
change the
coolant completely and take another reading under the same conditions.
I'd be very interested in what you find out.
Larry McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
>
> For what it's worth, when I moved my rad to the rear my cooling problems
> actually got worse. Maybe the additional "load" on the water pump
hindered
> the movement of the solution through the system. All I know is that the
> movement of the rad didn't work for me.
>
> John Karnes
> Port Orchard, WA
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 7/9/2003 6:26:27 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
phadr1@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Hello, all:
> I've also mounted my radiator approximately under the rear spar.
> Rather
> than simple tubes to get coolant to/from the radiator, I'm usingthe same
> extrusions that Polaris snowmobiles have mounted underneath their running
> boards. Cross section is about 1.5" X .75" (slightly trapezoidal) with very
> small ribs on the top (bottom as mounted) of the extrusion and a flange
> about
> .3" wide on each side for riviting. I had a beaded hose nipple welded onto
> each end. It makes for a very clean installation and should add some extra
> heat rejection (cooling) at the same time. Those 6061-T6 extrusions are
> designed to survive in an extremely abusive environment with lots of
> vibration
> and impact. I am confident that they will work well in the CH-601
> application.
>
> Phil Raker - N556P: HDS/Stratus
>
>
>
Good Idea. I have several snowmobile parts in my 801. I have to agree they
are pretty robust.
Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wy
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:44:40 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
dave@rockinrimranch.com writes:
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <
> dave@rockinrimranch.com>
>
> I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC is
> crooked When placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is this normal to
> counteract torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight, and in line
with
> the fuselage?
>
> Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
>
> Dave
>
I just built my mount for my 801 this week. It is a V-8 Ford and a 84" three
blade prop. I made mine 1.5 degrees to thr right and .5 degrees pointed down.
I had mine dummied up at 3 degrees to the right and it looked like that plane
was in a head on crash it was so crooked looking. Nick says 2-3 to the right
and 1 down but several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and they claim
they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
Ben Haas N801BH.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
No, it is not crooked. It is, however angled. This is to correct for the
common tendancy of most pilots to over-correct in the other direction. Were it
not for this built-in feature unique to Chris Heintz designs you would fly in
a straight line, go beyond the edge of the Earth, and, with the properties of
gravity being what they are, fall off the far side of the planet. Reverse all
the above of you fly left-handed. That explains things in the horizontal
plane, but make no mistake, the vertical relm is somewhat different. We'll
address that in the next installment.
Sure you don't have it installed inverted?
DO NOT ARCHIVE, for we have surely beaten this dead horse enough.
Zed Smith
701/R912/90%
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
Thanks Ben. It just looked weird, but I knew there had to be a reason.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: <Benford2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine mount frame
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:44:40 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> dave@rockinrimranch.com writes:
>
>
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <
> > dave@rockinrimranch.com>
> >
> > I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC is
> > crooked When placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is this
normal to
> > counteract torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight, and in
line with
> > the fuselage?
> >
> > Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> I just built my mount for my 801 this week. It is a V-8 Ford and a 84"
three
> blade prop. I made mine 1.5 degrees to thr right and .5 degrees pointed
down.
> I had mine dummied up at 3 degrees to the right and it looked like that
plane
> was in a head on crash it was so crooked looking. Nick says 2-3 to the
right
> and 1 down but several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and they
claim
> they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
--- Benford2@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:44:40 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> dave@rockinrimranch.com writes:
>
>
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <
> > dave@rockinrimranch.com>
> >
> > I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC
> is
> > crooked When placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is
> this normal to
> > counteract torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight,
> and in line with
> > the fuselage?
> >
> > Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> I just built my mount for my 801 this week. It is a V-8 Ford and a
> 84" three
> blade prop. I made mine 1.5 degrees to thr right and .5 degrees
> pointed down.
> I had mine dummied up at 3 degrees to the right and it looked like
> that plane
> was in a head on crash it was so crooked looking. Nick says 2-3 to
> the right
> and 1 down but several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and
> they claim
> they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
>
Ben,
I dont think we can compare the RV's design with the ZAC's.
Remenber that the ZAC planes have full moving rudder, no triming can be
achieved with the front part of the rudder, like in "normal" planes....
Maybe this is why ZAC compensates the p factor with the engine mount.
What do you think? If you leave your mount straight you will take off
like a P-51 or P-38 pilot :-) watch the pedals...
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
__________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I think John's cooling probs is more likely to be a combination of the extra
load on the water pump and maybe the air is going around the rad rather than
through it.
I bet it would be pretty easy to rig up a rudimentery pressure recovery duct
from sheet alu. If you think about it, this duct does not have to be perfect
because the air pressure loss through such a thin core is going to be pretty
low.
So I think covering the rad with a simple bent up sheet metal duct with the
appropriate 14 deg tapered opening would be pretty easy to make.
Might have to put a spoiler plate in the duct to spread the air to the
outsides to prevent it barreling through the middle.
I bet it would work though.
One day I'll try it, but I think I'll use the 1.25 tubes.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc@qconline.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
John,
I've been researching some of this and there are some 29 factors so far that
present the overheating problems we've seen. The one I was most surprised to
find was that the 3or 4 anti-freeze additives deteriorate and are
ineffective in a relatively short period of time. Nitrates improve heat
transfer by preventing cavitation and bubbles for a 2-year period or so.
When this additive goes, the engine can be overheating near the heads for a
time without a good read on it til it's too late.
I guess the question would be best asked, "How long since you replaced all
of your coolant?" If your coolant is over 2 years old, take readings on your
temps and then change the coolant completely and take another reading under
the same conditions. I'd be very interested in what you find out.
Larry McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes"
> --> <jpkarnes@charter.net>
>
> For what it's worth, when I moved my rad to the rear my cooling
> problems actually got worse. Maybe the additional "load" on the water
> pump
hindered
> the movement of the solution through the system. All I know is that
> the movement of the rad didn't work for me.
>
> John Karnes
> Port Orchard, WA
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
I'm used to flying jets where no P factor exists to run you into the grass!
:{) A P-51 sounds like a blast!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine mount frame
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
>
> --- Benford2@aol.com wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 7/9/2003 11:44:40 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> > dave@rockinrimranch.com writes:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <
> > > dave@rockinrimranch.com>
> > >
> > > I just noticed that the engine mounting frame I purchased from ZAC
> > is
> > > crooked When placed on the firewall, it angles to the right. Is
> > this normal to
> > > counteract torque and P factor, or should the frame be straight,
> > and in line with
> > > the fuselage?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any comments anyone may have.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> >
> > I just built my mount for my 801 this week. It is a V-8 Ford and a
> > 84" three
> > blade prop. I made mine 1.5 degrees to thr right and .5 degrees
> > pointed down.
> > I had mine dummied up at 3 degrees to the right and it looked like
> > that plane
> > was in a head on crash it was so crooked looking. Nick says 2-3 to
> > the right
> > and 1 down but several RV guys I spoke to have made 0-0 mounts and
> > they claim
> > they fly just fine. Time will tell for me.
> >
> > Ben Haas N801BH.
> >
> Ben,
>
> I dont think we can compare the RV's design with the ZAC's.
>
> Remenber that the ZAC planes have full moving rudder, no triming can be
> achieved with the front part of the rudder, like in "normal" planes....
> Maybe this is why ZAC compensates the p factor with the engine mount.
>
>
> What do you think? If you leave your mount straight you will take off
> like a P-51 or P-38 pilot :-) watch the pedals...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> 701 912S
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
If it were installed inverted, then I could fly inverted and the mount would
be right side up! LOL
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZSMITH3rd@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine mount frame
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
>
> No, it is not crooked. It is, however angled. This is to correct for the
> common tendancy of most pilots to over-correct in the other direction.
Were it
> not for this built-in feature unique to Chris Heintz designs you would fly
in
> a straight line, go beyond the edge of the Earth, and, with the properties
of
> gravity being what they are, fall off the far side of the planet. Reverse
all
> the above of you fly left-handed. That explains things in the horizontal
> plane, but make no mistake, the vertical relm is somewhat different.
We'll
> address that in the next installment.
>
> Sure you don't have it installed inverted?
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE, for we have surely beaten this dead horse enough.
>
> Zed Smith
> 701/R912/90%
>
>
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: gpjann@juno.com
I'm looking for performance information for a Zodiac 601 HD/HDS/XL
powered by a Corvair engine.
Thanks, Greg
gpjann@juno.com
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: A4 and A5 rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
This rivet thing has really got legs over the years. Looking in the
archives will give several suppliers of these rivets, the last ones I
bought were about $0.04 each. I know that Zenith said that they only
use the ones from the British plant and not the US made ones. Well
interestingly enough the fellow at the rivet store informed me that Avex
closed it's US plant and that now all the rivets are made in the UK. So
that means that whoever you buy them from they will be the right ones.
Tim Shankland
Michel Therrien wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
>If I remember, Aircraft Spruce sells the US version of
>the rivets. Not the UK version specified by Zenair.
>
>I bought mine from Avdel Textron directly (in
>Toronto).
>
>Michel
>
>--- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>If you are building from a kit, ZAC will probably
>>send you some at no
>>charge. I've run out a couple of times because they
>>didn't ship enough for
>>the partial kit I ordered at that time. (I ordered
>>the tail, wings and
>>fuselage separately.)
>>
>>Otherwise, Aircraft Spruce sells the avex rivets:
>>
>>
>>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php
>
>
>>And so does Wicks:
>>http://www.wicksaircraft.com/gotopage.php?page=100
>>
>>
>>
>
>=====
>----------------------------
>Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
>__________________________________
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
Although I'm not moving my radiator, mine are being put under the
cowling, I made the "T" 's , transitions and elbows I needed using
copper sweat fittings., just like the ones that Status has on the
engine. The only difficult part , as mentioned earlier in this thread is
the bead required on the ends. You can buy a beader for about $300-400,
but I was able to fabricate one in a few evenings but you need some
machine tools.
Tim Shankland
Larry McFarland wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>Frank,
>Correct, I'm having to find a few rubber elbows and the point on beading
>the tube is a good item as well. I don't intend to bend any aluminum tube
>tho it would be neat if one could radius around the firewall.
>I posted pictures on the subaru page on my site and the journal
>part 5 has been updated so far on process.
>Won't fly until next spring no matter what.
>Keep me posted.
>Thanks,
>Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
>>
>>
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>
>>Thanks Larry,
>>
>>If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition
>>
>>
>rubber
>
>
>>elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch to
>>inch and a quarter" transition.
>>
>>Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
>>change?
>>
>>Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
>>rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
>>
>>I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Frank
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc@qconline.com]
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>>
>>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
>>--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
>>>
>>>
>><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>>
>>>Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
>>>aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
>>>6061.
>>>
>>>I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
>>>catalogue).
>>>
>>>Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
>>>1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
>>>to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
>>>
>>>Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
>>>the trailing edge of the wing?
>>>
>>>I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
>>>the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
>>>statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
>>>the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
>>>
>>>I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Frank
>>>
>>>
>>Frank,
>>I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
>>12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The
>>
>>
>radiator
>
>
>>is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or
>>
>>
>more
>
>
>>of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned the
>>radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040
>>
>>
>angles,
>
>
>>20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
>>really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
>>angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved
>>
>>
>forward
>
>
>>if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
>>wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that have
>>direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
>>research................
>>
>>Larry McFarland - 601hds
>>
>>
>>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>>Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine mount frame |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 7/9/2003 5:40:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ggower_99@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> What do you think? If you leave your mount straight you will take off
> like a P-51 or P-38 pilot :-) watch the pedals...
>
>
Your mount is angled to the right and when you fly your 701 watch YOUR
peddles. If you don't use right rudder on the take off roll you will end up building
ANOTHER 701... I have flown alot of certified planes with all flying rudders
and they all had the mounts angled to the right too. I used the RV as an
example because one cannot alter a certified plane legally. Now maybe down there
in
Mexico the rules are different and torque works the other way, ya know how
things change when you cross the border.
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
It would be neat to see how you built a beader. Do you have a picture or
two?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim & Diane Shankland" <tshank@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland
<tshank@megsinet.net>
>
> Although I'm not moving my radiator, mine are being put under the
> cowling, I made the "T" 's , transitions and elbows I needed using
> copper sweat fittings., just like the ones that Status has on the
> engine. The only difficult part , as mentioned earlier in this thread is
> the bead required on the ends. You can buy a beader for about $300-400,
> but I was able to fabricate one in a few evenings but you need some
> machine tools.
>
> Tim Shankland
>
> Larry McFarland wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
> >
> >Frank,
> >Correct, I'm having to find a few rubber elbows and the point on beading
> >the tube is a good item as well. I don't intend to bend any aluminum tube
> >tho it would be neat if one could radius around the firewall.
> >I posted pictures on the subaru page on my site and the journal
> >part 5 has been updated so far on process.
> >Won't fly until next spring no matter what.
> >Keep me posted.
> >Thanks,
> >Larry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> >>
> >>
> ><frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> >
> >>Thanks Larry,
> >>
> >>If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition
> >>
> >>
> >rubber
> >
> >
> >>elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch
to
> >>inch and a quarter" transition.
> >>
> >>Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
> >>change?
> >>
> >>Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
> >>rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
> >>
> >>I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Frank
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc@qconline.com]
> >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >>
> >>
> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
> >>--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >>Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> >>>
> >>>
> >><frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
> >>>aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
> >>>6061.
> >>>
> >>>I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
> >>>catalogue).
> >>>
> >>>Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
> >>>1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
> >>>to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >>>
> >>>Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
> >>>the trailing edge of the wing?
> >>>
> >>>I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
> >>>the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
> >>>statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
> >>>the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >>>
> >>>I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>
> >>>Frank
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Frank,
> >>I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
> >>12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The
> >>
> >>
> >radiator
> >
> >
> >>is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or
> >>
> >>
> >more
> >
> >
> >>of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned
the
> >>radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040
> >>
> >>
> >angles,
> >
> >
> >>20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
> >>really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
> >>angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved
> >>
> >>
> >forward
> >
> >
> >>if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
> >>wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that
have
> >>direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
> >>research................
> >>
> >>Larry McFarland - 601hds
> >>
> >>
> >>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >>Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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|
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:57:39 -0400
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Out of courtesy to all list subscribers, especially those who receive on the "digest"
format, please edit out, delete, snip (take your choice) all but the most
important part of the original posting.
Some of these "radiator" postings are now seven layers deep and the constant repeating
of posts wastes bandwidth and time.
thanks jeff do not archive
Message 22
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." <dave@rockinrimranch.com>
Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine monitoring system
by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more than the Grand Rapids Technologies
EIS and at a much lower price. This is a Quebec company. The E2 features
can be seen at this website:
http://www.para-aviation.ca/
Any comments are appreciated.
Thanks...Dave
CH-601HD
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thinking about moving the rad |
Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:12:48 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Beading
I used copper sweat fittings and bent a slim piece of steel rod (heavy wire)around
a piece of tubing to produce the appropriate radius, then soldered it to the
fitting. It's been good for three years and three hundred hours. dw
----- Original Message -----
From: Cy Galley
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
It would be neat to see how you built a beader. Do you have a picture or
two?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim & Diane Shankland" <tshank@megsinet.net>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland
<tshank@megsinet.net>
>
> Although I'm not moving my radiator, mine are being put under the
> cowling, I made the "T" 's , transitions and elbows I needed using
> copper sweat fittings., just like the ones that Status has on the
> engine. The only difficult part , as mentioned earlier in this thread is
> the bead required on the ends. You can buy a beader for about $300-400,
> but I was able to fabricate one in a few evenings but you need some
> machine tools.
>
> Tim Shankland
>
> Larry McFarland wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
> >
> >Frank,
> >Correct, I'm having to find a few rubber elbows and the point on beading
> >the tube is a good item as well. I don't intend to bend any aluminum tube
> >tho it would be neat if one could radius around the firewall.
> >I posted pictures on the subaru page on my site and the journal
> >part 5 has been updated so far on process.
> >Won't fly until next spring no matter what.
> >Keep me posted.
> >Thanks,
> >Larry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> >>
> >>
> ><frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >
> >
> >>Thanks Larry,
> >>
> >>If I remember rightly there is only one 90 deg 1" to 1.25" transition
> >>
> >>
> >rubber
> >
> >
> >>elbow in the original ZAC kit. The other connection is a stright "inch
to
> >>inch and a quarter" transition.
> >>
> >>Did you buy a second rubber elbow and how did you find one with the size
> >>change?
> >>
> >>Are you bending a 90 deg elbow in the alu tube to reach the original 1"
> >>rubber hose? If not how are you connecting these?
> >>
> >>I assume you have not flown this new configuration yet?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Frank
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc@qconline.com]
> >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >>
> >>
> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
> >>--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >>Subject: Zenith-List: Thinking about moving the rad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> >>>
> >>>
> >><frank.hinde@hp.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Looking through the AS&S catalogue I see many designations of
> >>>aluminium tube. The cheapest and best known to us ZAC builders is
> >>>6061.
> >>>
> >>>I see a 1" tube at .035 wall thickness at $1.33 per foot (old
> >>>catalogue).
> >>>
> >>>Can someone tell me if this is thick enough (I assume one can crush a
> >>>1" plumbing olive...brass ring on the ends using copper pipe fittings
> >>>to make the rubber hose connections secure)?
> >>>
> >>>Anyone tell me how much I need to order to get the rear of the rad at
> >>>the trailing edge of the wing?
> >>>
> >>>I am planning on moving the rad first, looks like I will have to drop
> >>>the front down to allow the 90 deg hoses to clear, and then making a
> >>>statc pressure recovery scoop later that will fit over the outside of
> >>>the rad, fixed to the underside of the fuse.
> >>>
> >>>I will get around to the second part ot "some point"...:)
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>
> >>>Frank
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Frank,
> >>I just ordered 3 pieces of 1"-.049-wall 6061-T6 from Wicks that total
> >>12-feet. (12' is minimum order) and am comfortable with that. The
> >>
> >>
> >radiator
> >
> >
> >>is 38" rearward of it's normal position and intend to use about 36" or
> >>
> >>
> >more
> >
> >
> >>of the tube to reach the elbows at the firewall. Also, re-positioned
the
> >>radiator front end 1" down from its normal position between two .040
> >>
> >>
> >angles,
> >
> >
> >>20mm x 24mm, 65-1/2" long to reach from the rear spar to the firewall. I
> >>really like the appearance of the radiator back there, but I punched the
> >>angles before hanging them so the radiator can also be readily moved
> >>
> >>
> >forward
> >
> >
> >>if something requires I retreat from this. We all seem to be on the same
> >>wave length (cooling issues). I'm compiling a set of parameters that
have
> >>direct impact on getting the engine cooler on hot days. Lot of
> >>research................
> >>
> >>Larry McFarland - 601hds
> >>
> >>
> >>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >>Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Byass" <gbyass@cygnus.uwa.edu.au>
Dave
I have not seen the E2 system but I have purchased the Stratomaster Ultra
that incorporates the major flight instruments plus the basic engine
instruments such as oil temp, pressure, fuel level and flow, tacho and 4 EGT
or CHT's. There are other combinations possible here as well depending on
the type of engine used.
All I can say is that their engineering looks excellent and the visibility
in daylight is very good (backlighting is also available).
My plane is not yet ready to fly but I have seen a similar instrument in a
flying 701 and the owner is very pleased with it.
I am sure you would not be disappointed with the E2 and I am sure the price
would be quite competitive.
Graham Byass
Western Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rockin Rim
Ranch, Inc.
Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc."
<dave@rockinrimranch.com>
Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine monitoring
system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more than the Grand
Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. This is a Quebec company.
The E2 features can be seen at this website:
http://www.para-aviation.ca/
Any comments are appreciated.
Thanks...Dave
CH-601HD
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