---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/12/03: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:42 AM - Re: MGL Avionics (Phil & Michele Miller) 2. 02:46 AM - Re: Crazy Rad Idea? (Phil & Michele Miller) 3. 05:41 AM - Re: YAHOOO (caspainhower@aep.com) 4. 07:11 AM - LE slats (Reese Nelson) 5. 07:57 AM - Re: Insurance (Jeff & Marcia Davidson) 6. 08:32 AM - Re: Crazy Rad Idea? (Leo J. Corbalis) 7. 10:38 AM - Philips seat belt failure (mike sinclair) 8. 10:49 AM - 701 Cowl Project (mike sinclair) 9. 01:40 PM - Re: Insurance (Philip Polstra) 10. 01:44 PM - Re: Philips seat belt failure (Philip Polstra) 11. 02:02 PM - Re: 701 Cowl Project (Carlos Sa) 12. 02:08 PM - Re: YAHOOO (Zodie Rocket) 13. 05:00 PM - Re: LE slats/ nuts?? (Fred Poor) 14. 06:41 PM - Re: LE slats/ nuts?? (Zodie Rocket) 15. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: LE slats/ nuts?? (Pete Ritter) 16. 07:02 PM - Re: Flap Drive - Commercial Aircraft Products (William Cribb) 17. 07:28 PM - eloquent- NO, honest- Yes (Fred Poor) 18. 07:56 PM - Slat-less 701 (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) 19. 08:08 PM - Seat belt failures (Gary Liming) 20. 09:31 PM - Seat belt attachments (George Swinford) 21. 10:14 PM - Re: LE slats (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:20 AM PST US From: "Phil & Michele Miller" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" My electronics friend showed me a display panel which he thinks could be adapted. It has yellow graphics on a black background and he assures me it can be seen in any light conditions. He says it is the same as used in F16 fighters. If all else fails I will go with that as it will be cheaper than buying a full set of conventional instruments and gauges. I have no doubt that electronic instrumentation is the way of the future but there will be hiccups along the way. At least we have the freedom to experiment which the GA guys don't have Cheers, Phil Miller New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc. Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." --> I see what you're saying. I guess any screen with an LCD will have these same problems in reflective sunlight. Maybe the best solution is to stick with those ol mechanical gages. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil & Michele Miller" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" > > I guess I didn't make the point properly. Sun on the screen is good as > it increases contrast. The problem is with sunlight reflecting off the > pilot and cabin, onto the screen and then reflecting back to your > eyes. You see a great reflection of yourself but the display data can > completely disappear. > > Cheers, > Phil M > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin > Rim Ranch, Inc. > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > --> > > Thanks Phil. I have a tinted canopy, and a dash that extends beyond > the panel, both of which help to keep the sun off the panel. We'll see > what happens. > > Thanks...Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phil & Michele Miller" > To: > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" > > > > > Hi, Dave, > > > > One thing you need to check very carefully is visibility/readability > > in certain light conditions. I have a similar instrument (Skydat > > GX1) in my 701. When flying into low-ish sun, the sun on me reflects > > off the LCD screen and can cause it to wash out completely (and I > > mean > > COMPLETELY) leaving me flying totally blind. The first time it > > happened was as I set up on final one day when I was still on very low > > > hours in the plane. It was very scary to have no airspeed reference > > when I hadn't yet acquired a good feel for correct approach > > speed/attitude. And, yes, it is backlit. > > > > I've tried changing the mounting angle and putting non-reflective > > glass over the screen to no avail. I have just heard that the 3M > > company apparently have a polarising film which may help. Failing > > that > > > I am working with a local electronics company to see if they can > > adapt > > > my unit to one of their display panels. > > > > I should say here that the Skydat agent says he has not heard of the > > problem in other installations. Also, I think the Skydat display is > > layed out better than the Stratomaster. You can check it out at > > http://homepages.acenet.co.za/cheeky/skydat/ > > > > Cheers, > > Phil Miller > > New Zealand > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rockin > > Rim Ranch, Inc. > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Zenith-List: MGL Avionics > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rockin Rim Ranch, Inc." > > --> > > > > Has anyone had any experience with the Stratomaster E2 engine > > monitoring system by MGL Avionics? This instrument seems to do more > > than the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS and at a much lower price. > > This > > > is a Quebec company. The E2 features can be seen at this website: > > > > http://www.para-aviation.ca/ > > > > Any comments are appreciated. > > > > Thanks...Dave > > CH-601HD > > > > > > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > > > > > > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:28 AM PST US From: "Phil & Michele Miller" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Crazy Rad Idea? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" Don't forget that you would be carrying around a lot more water if you start running pipes all over the place. It's probably a weight penalty that you don't need. Cheers, Phil Miller New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grant Corriveau Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crazy Rad Idea? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > Why don't we just run cooling pipes in a straight line? Maybe up and > down the strut or something? Apparently someone in Quebec installed a radiator in the fuselage behind the seat, and addded automotive fans to the sideskin/inlet to ensure airflow on the ground. Heavy and overly-complicated....for sure, but innovative at least. What you propose is intruiging.... how about an entire upper or lower wing surface designed to dissipate heat?.... Or a large underbelly section? We have so much more space to work with compared to a car .... I wonder how much heat a single (long) aluminum pipe would radiate? What if it was equipped with fins of some sort? Hmmmmm.... it is true as you suggest. We have locked ourselves in with the concept of automotive radiators. There may be a lighter, easier design that would be tailor-made to an aircraft... -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: YAHOOO From: caspainhower@aep.com 07/12/2003 08:40:36 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com Congratulations Dave, looking forward to hearing more about future flights! Please post your performance figures when you get it rung out a little. I plan to use the Lycoming also. What prop did you use and did you go with an aftermarket starter and/or alternator to lighten the engine? I wonder if it would be acceptable to adjust/bias the trim for more nose up. Craig S. 601 XL This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:33 AM PST US From: "Reese Nelson" Subject: Zenith-List: LE slats --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson" Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the LE slats? I would be willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the plane. Reese ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:34 AM PST US From: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Insurance --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" Phil, Concerning "I got a call yesterday from my insurance underwriter (AIG). They have agreed in theory to pay me the full agreed value of my CH601HDS minus my $100 deductable. ", what was the process used to determine the value of your craft? jeff davidson ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:49 AM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crazy Rad Idea? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" Look in your history books at the origonal Schneider Cup racers, they even had skin radiators on the floats to get enough area Leo Corbalis do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:11 AM PST US From: mike sinclair Subject: Zenith-List: Philips seat belt failure --> Zenith-List message posted by: mike sinclair Philip You said that your seat belt failed during your accident, and I was curious as to where it broke. I seen an instance 2 or 3 years ago where a 701 out in Colorado flipped over on a forced landing and there were pictures posted showing that his seat belt failed by pulling the bolt right out of the .040 thick central attach strap (I hope this is correct, if anyone else seen this and I have made an error, please let me know). I am currently adding an additional .030 thick strap anchored with A5 rivets at slightly different angles from the zenith design, at all 6 attach points. Figure better safe than sorry. Philip Polstra wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:47 AM PST US From: mike sinclair Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Cowl Project --> Zenith-List message posted by: mike sinclair For those interested, Scott Laughlin at "cooknwithgas.com" has posted pictures of the sequential process I went through to create a mold for my cowl. I quesstimate that the whole process of building a plug, laying up a mold, and laying up a cowl, will be under 120 hours total. Plus it is going to be a lot better looking than the Zenith supplied cowl. This is not intended to represent the best way to make your own cowl, just another possible solution. I have done quite a bit of fiberglass before, but this has been my most ambitious project so far. And I found a couple things that I would do a little differently if I had to do it again. But overall would be pretty much as you see on Scott's web site. Thanks Scott for hosting this. By the way, you will probably need Internet Explorer to view the pictures, Netscape won't do. I think it must be some Microsoft proprietary thing. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:56 PM PST US From: "Philip Polstra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Insurance --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" Phil, Concerning "I got a call yesterday from my insurance underwriter (AIG). They have agreed in theory to pay me the full agreed value of my CH601HDS minus my $100 deductable. ", what was the process used to determine the value of your craft? The aircraft has an agreed value of $35k. What that means is that I requested that much coverage from the insurance company and they agreed that the plane was worth at least that much. In retrospect I should have gotten more coverage. I thought at the time I could get something equivalent for the same money, but I don't think that's true. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:16 PM PST US From: "Philip Polstra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Philips seat belt failure --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" --> Zenith-List message posted by: mike sinclair You said that your seat belt failed during your accident, and I was curious as to where it broke. The seatbelt broke on the outboard attach point. The long piece of metal that the bolt goes into literally tore. The bolt was still in the piece. I think I pulled some serious g's though. I was still going at least 50 mph when I hit a stump with the left main that stopped me and spun me almost instantly. There was enough force involved to launch my tow bar clear through the canopy. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:56 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Cowl Project --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa --- mike sinclair wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: mike sinclair > > For those interested, Scott Laughlin at "cooknwithgas.com" has posted pictures of > the sequential process I went through to create a mold for my cowl. .... ... > By the way, you will probably need Internet Explorer to > view the pictures, Netscape won't do. I think it must be some Microsoft > proprietary thing. FYI, Netscape 7.02 works perfectly. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:59 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: YAHOOO --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl@sympatico.ca> HI Group it would seem that the matronics weasel caught me. I was a little longer building a new puter and was kicked off the list. Hope I didn't miss too much. I do have a question however. In the 601XL plans the flap motor is referred to as Commercial Aircraft Company P/N D145-0036-3. I seem to be at a loss as to where this company is located? Do they have a website? What have others done for the flap motor other then buy them from ZAC at $400.00 U.S. Mark 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo Alma, Ontario -----Original Message----- Congratulations Dave, looking forward to hearing more about future flights! Please post your performance figures when you get it rung out a little. I plan to use the Lycoming also. What prop did you use and did you go with an aftermarket starter and/or alternator to lighten the engine? I wonder if it would be acceptable to adjust/bias the trim for more nose up. Craig S. 601 XL ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:53 PM PST US From: Fred Poor Subject: Re: Zenith-List: LE slats/ nuts?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor are you nuts????? ideas like this, give Cris and homebuilding/ experimental aircraft a bad rap--- try jumping off a roof with an umbrella-- should be just as exciting----- "fred" do not archive --- Reese Nelson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson" > > > Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the LE > slats? I would be > willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the plane. > > Reese > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:39 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Zenith-List: RE: LE slats/ nuts?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Fred you could have been a little more eloquent, I understand the emotion and have slipped many times myself. Reese the 701 is a design that is STOL and slow. The designer has made the plane in this fashion for a reason. Now if you are willing to wait, when the new sport plane regs are finally released you will see Chris complete the CH152( I saw the wings today ;-) ). You may wish to wait, then you will have a plane that fly's like a 152 and is built along the Heintz tradition. I would not recommend trying to make the 701 into something it was never meant to be, we have lost too many friends in the last few years that liked to make mods or fly a plane outside it's design factors. That was the whole reason for calling it a sky Jeep, for it's design it is the best at what it does! Personally I think it is a bit "functionally" ugly (though not as UGLY as a Sonnex!!!) but strapped in the seats on a small grass strip the 701 is a creation from the Wizard of OZ.(Straight UP Toto!!!) Mark Townsend 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo -----Original Message----- are you nuts????? ideas like this, give Cris and homebuilding/ experimental aircraft a bad rap--- try jumping off a roof with an umbrella-- should be just as exciting----- "fred" do not archive --- Reese Nelson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson" > > > Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the LE > slats? I would be > willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the plane. > > Reese > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:17 PM PST US From: Pete Ritter Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: LE slats/ nuts?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pete Ritter On Saturday 12 July 2003 08:40 pm, you wrote: > bit "functionally" ugly (though not as UGLY as a Sonnex!!!) but > strapped in the seats on a small grass strip the 701 is a creation from > the Wizard of OZ.(Straight UP Toto!!!) If it flies, it ain't ugly. Even if it is a Sonex! ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:41 PM PST US From: "William Cribb" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Drive - Commercial Aircraft Products --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Cribb" Hello Mark, Here is how to contact Commercial Aircraft Products. Address: 2311 So. Edwards Wichita, KS 67213 phone: 316-942-7987 fax: 316-942-3588 I bought my flap drive directly from CAP in last year, cost was $265 plus shipping. They are really great people to deal with. Lead time is approx 7 days after ordering. Take care Bill Cribb N601WC reserved ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: YAHOOO > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl@sympatico.ca> > > > > In the 601XL plans the flap motor is referred to as Commercial Aircraft > Company P/N D145-0036-3. I seem to be at a loss as to where this company > is located? > > Mark > 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo > Alma, Ontario > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:54 PM PST US From: Fred Poor Subject: Zenith-List: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor Mark-- what is wrong with calling a spade a spade--- why didn't you ask him the same thing I did-- the guy is a complete asshole for even considering doing such a STUPID thing (or asking about it).. You go ahead and be eloquent if you want ( I don't have such a nice way with words as you do ) but I hate seeing folks consider doing stupid shit and than people on this list trying to "analyze" what went wrong and blaming Chris Heintz for it--i.e. a while back you were all talking about his weak tie down point, and come to find out it was rotten rope. Reese-- build yourself a 701, take the slats off, fly it, spin it, take a video, put it on the web: so we can all enyoy it--no sweat off my ass either way-- "fred" do not archive --- Zodie Rocket <601xl@sympatico.ca> wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > <601xl@sympatico.ca> > > Fred you could have been a little more eloquent, I > understand the > emotion and have slipped many times myself. > Reese the 701 is a design that is STOL and slow. The > designer has made > the plane in this fashion for a reason. Now if you > are willing to wait, > when the new sport plane regs are finally released > you will see Chris > complete the CH152( I saw the wings today ;-) ). You > may wish to wait, > then you will have a plane that fly's like a 152 and > is built along the > Heintz tradition. I would not recommend trying to > make the 701 into > something it was never meant to be, we have lost too > many friends in the > last few years that liked to make mods or fly a > plane outside it's > design factors. That was the whole reason for > calling it a sky Jeep, for > it's design it is the best at what it does! > Personally I think it is a > bit "functionally" ugly (though not as UGLY as a > Sonnex!!!) but > strapped in the seats on a small grass strip the 701 > is a creation from > the Wizard of OZ.(Straight UP Toto!!!) > > Mark Townsend > 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo > > -----Original Message----- > are you nuts????? ideas like this, give Cris and > homebuilding/ experimental aircraft a bad rap--- try > jumping off a roof with an umbrella-- should be just > as exciting----- "fred" do not archive > > > --- Reese Nelson wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson" > > > > > > Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the > LE > > slats? I would be > > willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the > plane. > > > > Reese > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:31 PM PST US From: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Slat-less 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com Well, Pilgrim, you have stumbled onto one of the secrets of the universe.... There is a web site detailing all the re-engineering required to add 50 knots to the top end, lower the stall speed to 14 knots, increase useful load by 400 pounds and, with the Rotax 912, achieve takeoffs of less than 20 feet over a 50-foot obstacle. Try this: http://stupidideaslikethatwillgetyoukilledwhichisaconditionthatbecomespermanentinahurry.dum!! zed smith 701/r912/90% do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:38 PM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Zenith-List: Seat belt failures --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming Quite a few months ago, an 801 crashed and I happened to see a picture of the seat belt attachment bracket from that aircraft where the bolt that attaches the belt to the bracket completely pulled through the bracket. More recently, Phil Polstra was kind enough to send me a picture of his 601 attachment bracket that had failed in the middle of the bracket. Both bracket failures caused injuries. Curious about this, and intending to "beef" mine up a bit, I sent an inquiry to ZAC about the human factors the bracket was designed for and received this reply from Chris Heintz: "the standard occupant weight used is 80kg = 176lbs (corresponds to FAR 23 requirements) and a forward ultimate load factor of 9. The attachment were successfully static tested for above loads, but with 240lbs occupant the ultimate load factor is reduced to 176 divided by 240 multiplied by 9 = 6.5!! Thicker brackets in aluminum or steel will be Ok, but the attach to the airplane need also more A5 rivets!" Curiously, if you look up FAR 23.785: Seats, berths, litters, safety belts, and shoulder harnesses. [There must be a seat or berth for each occupant that meets the following:] (a) Each seat/restraint system and the supporting structure must be designed to support occupants weighing at least 215 pounds when subjected to the maximum load factors corresponding to the specified flight and ground load conditions, as defined in the approved operating envelope of the airplane. In addition, these loads must be multiplied by a factor of 1.33 in determining the strength of all fittings and the attachment of-- (1) Each seat to the structure; and (2) Each safety belt and shoulder harness to the seat or structure. I have no idea why the FAR for this particular item uses a safety factor of 1.3 instead of its usual 1.5. It is nice to note that Chris uses 1.6. I am 6' 1" and my pilot son is 6' 4" and one of the reasons we chose the 801 was its load carrying capacity. Yeah, I could stand to loose some weight, and in fact I have since building this thing, but I know many, many pilots heavier than me, and very many that are heavier than 176 lbs - not to mention passengers! Therefore, I am going to make my selt belt brackets thicker (and/or steel) and use more rivets! One sure hopes you never need them, but if you do, you sure want them to work! Gary Liming ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:01 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Seat belt attachments --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Re Gary's comments on crash loads and load factors: The 1.3 load factor is what is known as a "fitting factor" and is applied in the design of all the fittings in the airplane to account for uncertainties in the analysis of load distribution and other things unique to fittings. The fitting factor is used in addition to the 1.5 "factor of safety" that is applied to the greatest expected operating load or "limit load" to define the "ultimate load". In other words, for fittings like wing, tail and landing gear attachments, it's limit load multiplied by 1.5 then multiplied again by the 1.3 fitting factor to get the ultimate design load. For parts like ribs and spars only the 1.5 factor is applied. Seat belt and shoulder harness fittings are designed by ultimate loads since their normal operating loads are trivial by comparison. Limit load is the greatest load the airplane or part is expected to stand without being permanently distorted. For loads greater than limit load but less than ultimate load the airplane or part may be permanently bent, but it will function without failure.At ultimate load the part may break. A well designed airplane won't carry loads much above the design ultimate, because the designer doesn't want to incorporate any more weight than the ultimate load requires. Incidentally, a properly restrained person can survive a lot more than 9g forward. I'm using 20g for redesigning my seat and shoulder restraints, figuring the load to be equally divided between seat and shoulder harness and using 200 pounds for weight. The basic structure may not be adequate for that but at least the fittings won't fail before the rest of the airplane. I think the cockpits in some ag airplanes are designed for much higher crash loads. Those of you who already knew all this, forgive me for being so long-winded. George Do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:59 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: LE slats --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Reese, I wouldnt dare, each plane is designed with some goals in mind, why dont you build a 601 if you want a faster plane? There has to be another high wing that will fly as you spected (if you want high wing), without fooling around and risking yourself (and the sport) as a test pilot. Flying a plane with a peace of mind is important to enjoy the sport... the wing design is an important part of any plane. Get a second opinion, and keep looking, if you dont find another plane better than the 701, we will be happy to have you as another builder here. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S. My wings look great with the slots... --- Reese Nelson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson" > > > Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the LE slats? I would > be > willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the plane. > > Reese > > > > > > > > __________________________________