Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:41 AM - Questions from a new member (randall true)
2. 04:55 AM - FW: Aerolearn.com E-Learner July 11, 2003 (Grant Corriveau)
3. 05:50 AM - Re: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes (Michel Therrien)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: Questions from a new member (jnbolding1)
5. 06:46 AM - Re: Seat belt failures (Benford2@aol.com)
6. 07:38 AM - Re: Questions from a new member (Randall Stout)
7. 08:48 AM - auto-engine cooling system that works (Randy L. Thwing)
8. 08:57 AM - Troubling (Lowell Metz)
9. 10:06 AM - Re: LE Slats 701 (Reese Nelson)
10. 10:43 AM - Re: Questions from a new member (George Swinford)
11. 11:12 AM - Re: Questions from a new member (caspainhower@aep.com)
12. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: LE Slats 701 (Duane)
13. 02:01 PM - Re: Seat belt attachments (David Tellet)
14. 04:41 PM - Re: Questions from a new member (Frank Jones)
15. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: LE Slats 701/ reese (Fred Poor)
16. 06:46 PM - Beading aluminum tubing (Larry McFarland)
17. 07:32 PM - Re: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes (Charles Sonberg)
18. 07:44 PM - Re: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes (Don Walker)
19. 08:08 PM - Fw: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes (Don Walker)
20. 08:08 PM - Zenith Newsletters (Jon Croke)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Questions from a new member |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
__________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | FW: Aerolearn.com E-Learner July 11, 2003 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
I came across this online learning website a while back... they recently
sent me the following course descriptions. I pass it on just in case anyone
on the list is interested.... a way to turn your aircraft building hobby
into a career??
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
do not archive
--
----------
From: "Communications Department" <communications@aerolearn.com>
Subject: Aerolearn.com E-Learner July 11, 2003
Aerolearn.com E-Learner
July 11, 2003
http://www.aerolearn.com
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appropriate information.
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The Learning Service Provider for the Aviation Industry
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Sometimes, ideas may look stupid, but they may not
entirely be. OK, I'm not talking about making the 701
an aerobatics aircraft, but the idea to remove or
"deactivate" the slats is not new.
There is a kit manufacturer that sells a kit very
similar to the 701, but with automatic shifting slats.
This is to increase flying performance while keeping
stol performance. Take note that C. Heintz did'nt
like that at all when this came to market. He wrote
about the issues with such a design in a past edition
of the Zenair News.
See:
http://www.dedaliusaviation.com/newdedalius/anglais.htm
See the "design" section.
Michel
--- Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor
> <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Mark-- what is wrong with calling a spade a spade---
> why didn't you ask him the same thing I did-- the
> guy
> is a complete asshole for even considering doing
> such
> a STUPID thing (or asking about it).. You go ahead
> and
> be eloquent if you want ( I don't have such a nice
> way with words as you do ) but I hate seeing folks
> consider doing stupid shit and than people on this
> list trying to "analyze" what went wrong and blaming
> Chris Heintz for it--i.e. a while back you were all
> talking about his weak tie down point, and come to
> find out it was rotten rope. Reese-- build
> yourself
> a 701, take the slats off, fly it, spin it, take a
> video, put it on the web: so we can all enyoy it--no
> sweat off my ass either way-- "fred" do not archive
>
>
> --- Zodie Rocket <601xl@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
> > <601xl@sympatico.ca>
> >
> > Fred you could have been a little more eloquent, I
> > understand the
> > emotion and have slipped many times myself.
> > Reese the 701 is a design that is STOL and slow.
> The
> > designer has made
> > the plane in this fashion for a reason. Now if you
> > are willing to wait,
> > when the new sport plane regs are finally released
> > you will see Chris
> > complete the CH152( I saw the wings today ;-) ).
> You
> > may wish to wait,
> > then you will have a plane that fly's like a 152
> and
> > is built along the
> > Heintz tradition. I would not recommend trying to
> > make the 701 into
> > something it was never meant to be, we have lost
> too
> > many friends in the
> > last few years that liked to make mods or fly a
> > plane outside it's
> > design factors. That was the whole reason for
> > calling it a sky Jeep, for
> > it's design it is the best at what it does!
> > Personally I think it is a
> > bit "functionally" ugly (though not as UGLY as a
> > Sonnex!!!) but
> > strapped in the seats on a small grass strip the
> 701
> > is a creation from
> > the Wizard of OZ.(Straight UP Toto!!!)
> >
> > Mark Townsend
> > 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > are you nuts????? ideas like this, give Cris and
> > homebuilding/ experimental aircraft a bad rap---
> try
> > jumping off a roof with an umbrella-- should be
> just
> > as exciting----- "fred" do not archive
> >
> >
> > --- Reese Nelson <reesen@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese
> Nelson"
> > > <reesen@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without
> the
> > LE
> > > slats? I would be
> > > willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the
> > plane.
> > >
> > > Reese
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Contributions
> > > any other
> > > Forums.
> > >
> > > latest messages.
> > > List members.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
>
>I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
>Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
>good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
>to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
>3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
>after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
>CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
>about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
>>
I chased coating problems for a living for 33 yrs and offer the following for what
it's worth to you.
If you were working on your car and got your hands all greasy would you rub them
with MEK (or any thinner,even if it was safe) and then wipe you hands on a dry
towel? Probably not. What you would do is to get the oil and grime suspended
by using a surfactant (soap ) and then rinse the goop away with water. ALL
that you do with solvents and a rag is chase the oils around in smaller and smaller
concentrations . It doesn't take much to affect the adhesion of a coating.
Use a good metal cleaner (WO-1, Metal Prep) to get things loose and WASH IT
OFF . Two applications is better than one. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Seat belt failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 7/12/2003 9:09:19 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
gary@liming.org writes:
>
>
> Therefore, I am going to make my selt belt brackets thicker (and/or steel)
> and use more rivets! One sure hopes you never need them, but if you do,
> you sure want them to work!
>
> Gary Liming
Amen to that.!!!!!
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Stout" <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
Randall
1) It just depends on what you want. The spray in the cans, zinc chromate or
zinc phosphate, has several drawbacks: One causes cancer, neither is good to
breathe, they clog easy, and are expensive. You can go to a boat shop and
find a quart size can of zinc chromate that you can brush on. It goes a lot
farther that the spray cans, is cheaper in the long run, and you don't have
to mess with a respirator to keep from breathing it in.
2) John already gave you a good answer. The only thing I might add is to not
touch the parts with your bare hands after cleaning them.
3) Don't know
4) Rumor mill has it the Zenith is working on an aircraft the looks similar
to a C-152. Hopefully with much better performance. Nothing has been
released officially. Somewhere on the Zenith site is a place where you can
sign up for their email updates. http://www.zenithair.com/maillist.html I'm
sure they will send out a message when it's official.
Randy Stout - San Antonio TX
CH601HD N282RS
r5t0ut@earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
----- Original Message -----
From: "randall true" <randtrue@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Questions from a new member
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
>
> I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
> Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
> good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
> to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
> 3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
> after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
> CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
> about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
Message 7
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| Subject: | auto-engine cooling system that works |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Dear Listers:
After following the recent discussion regarding water cooling system design/placement/problems, I took my camera to the airport yesterday and took a few pictures of the BeltedAir, Chevrolet 4.3L, V6 powered RV-6A. I know it's neither a Zenith aircraft nor a subaru engine. It is a very clean liquid-cooled installation that works. The baffling completely isolates the exhaust system from the ram air. All air that enters the cowl inlets that is not used by the carburetor is directed through the radiator. Maybe the concepts shown here can be used in the ZA installations. Thought you water-cooled builders would like to see this. More information is available at www.beltedair.com Links to the pictures are:
www.mindspring.com/~newstandardmfg/beltedairtop.jpg
www.mindspring.com/~newstandardmfg/beltedairfront.jpg
Hope this help,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, Las Vegas, NV
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
Readers and writers of the list,
It troubles me that there are a few ( small few ) that will go to any length
to try to elevate themselves by cutting others down using a plethora of humiliating
four letter words in a personal attack on someone. As a rule I find this
list helpful and enlightening. There are builders in every stage of construction
with every level of aircraft knowledge and building skills. If we build
each other up instead of cutting others to the quick, we just might help save
a life or at least make someone's building and flying experiences more enjoyable.
We never stand very tall when we step on someone else.
"NUFF SAID"
Lowell Metz 701/ 912-S
And if you do have to vent with less that professional language PLEASE add
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Do Not Archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: LE Slats 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson" <reesen@hotmail.com>
Sparked a bit huh? I'll bet that there was some performance analysis done
when the plane was on the drawing board that may have considered other
options and some original fight testing done that prompted Chris to say no
spins, maybe because of the slats. I like the folding wing option and the
building method. I also like spins but I wasn't considering flying outside
the planes limits, that's why I asked. Does this mean that a taildragger
with a radial engine are out of the question? :) Thanks for the CH152
suggestion.
Reese
ps, Fred, you don't know my ass well enough to say wether it's complete or
not.
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Randall:
In mid construction of my 601HD I switched from zinc chromate to a grey
self-etching primer called Mar-Hyde which I buy at an auto paint store. It
has a good appearance and seems to adhere very well. I don't know how
dangerous it may be if inhaled, but less than zinc chromate, I'm sure. I
have no experience with zinc oxide so I can't make a comparison there. MEK
has worked well for me, especially when used with a green Scotch-brite pad.
I never heard of spraying oil into the primed areas, but i know that LPS 3
has been used. I doubt that it's necessary.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "randall true" <randtrue@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Questions from a new member
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
>
> I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
> Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
> good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
> to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
> 3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
> after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
> CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
> about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Questions from a new member |
07/13/2003 02:11:09 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
Randall,
I just went through the Zenith workshop (in February) and they are
using a clear primer now instead of the zinc oxide. It's not supposed to
be so toxic and it brushes or rolls on easily. I have completed the tail,
and wing control surfaces so far using just under a quart. I've gotten
good adhesion cleaning with just laquer thinner, but I'm not one to debate
the experts. I've read about the oil type protectants, supposedly they
work pretty good. I don't know what type of frequency you need to re-apply
them though. I definitely lean towards priming the interior while its
being assembled, it's like the ultimate z-bart treatment. Good luck on
the rudder!
Craig S.
601 XL
randall true
<randtrue@yahoo.com> To: zenith list
<zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent by: cc:
owner-zenith-list-server@ma Subject: Zenith-List:
Questions from a new member
tronics.com
07/13/03 04:40 AM
Please respond to
zenith-list
--> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: LE Slats 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Duane <duane@mo-net.com>
Reese
I won`t respond on list, but I have an 701. In my instruction book
from Zenith Chris Heinz says you can do occasional spins in the 701.
Duane
Reese Nelson wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson" <reesen@hotmail.com>
>
> Sparked a bit huh? I'll bet that there was some performance analysis done
> when the plane was on the drawing board that may have considered other
> options and some original fight testing done that prompted Chris to say no
> spins, maybe because of the slats. I like the folding wing option and the
> building method. I also like spins but I wasn't considering flying outside
> the planes limits, that's why I asked. Does this mean that a taildragger
> with a radial engine are out of the question? :) Thanks for the CH152
> suggestion.
>
> Reese
>
> ps, Fred, you don't know my ass well enough to say wether it's complete or
> not.
>
> do not archive
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Seat belt attachments |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Tellet <telletdl@erols.com>
This is good information, why don't you want it archived?
I also went through the calculations and it appeared that the 0.040
straps were sized for the 175 lb person for 9 gs. Didn't look like the
1.33 was used for the fitting sizes. But my straps in the kit appear
to be 0.063. I still beefed them up a little to prevent the bolt from
pulling through and because I doubt I'll see 175 again.
David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 12:32 AM, George Swinford wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford"
> <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
> Re Gary's comments on crash loads and load factors:
>
> The 1.3 load factor is what is known as a "fitting factor" and is
> applied in the design of all the fittings in the airplane to account
> for uncertainties in the analysis of load distribution and other
> things unique to fittings. The fitting factor is used in addition to
> the 1.5 "factor of safety" that is applied to the greatest expected
> operating load or "limit load" to define the "ultimate load". In other
> words, for fittings like wing, tail and landing gear attachments, it's
> limit load multiplied by 1.5 then multiplied again by the 1.3 fitting
> factor to get the ultimate design load. For parts like ribs and spars
> only the 1.5 factor is applied. Seat belt and shoulder harness
> fittings are designed by ultimate loads since their normal operating
> loads are trivial by comparison.
>
> Limit load is the greatest load the airplane or part is expected to
> stand without being permanently distorted. For loads greater than
> limit load but less than ultimate load the airplane or part may be
> permanently bent, but it will function without failure.At ultimate
> load the part may break. A well designed airplane won't carry loads
> much above the design ultimate, because the designer doesn't want to
> incorporate any more weight than the ultimate load requires.
>
> Incidentally, a properly restrained person can survive a lot more than
> 9g forward. I'm using 20g for redesigning my seat and shoulder
> restraints, figuring the load to be equally divided between seat and
> shoulder harness and using 200 pounds for weight. The basic structure
> may not be adequate for that but at least the fittings won't fail
> before the rest of the airplane. I think the cockpits in some ag
> airplanes are designed for much higher crash loads.
>
> Those of you who already knew all this, forgive me for being so
> long-winded.
>
> George
>
> Do not <snip>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Questions from a new member |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
I know of people who built aircraft in the 70s using Zinc Chromate. They
don't show any sign of corrosion damage. That proof sold me on the use
of Zinc Chromate. What I did not like was the toxicity of the sprayed
version. It contains some nasty chemicals that will be readily inhaled.
I just bought the can of zinc chromate liquid and cut it with lacquer
thinner to apply it with a paint brush. I hope its not too toxic this
way.
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601 XL
______________________
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of randall
true
Subject: Zenith-List: Questions from a new member
--> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
I'm building a 601 intro rudder kit to see what the
Heintz system is like. 1) Is spray zinc oxide a pretty
good way to go, or is there a better and or easier way
to do it? 2) Is there a better pre-cleaner than mek?
3) Does anyone know if the system that sprays in oil
after the parts are done is effective? 4) What is this
CH152 you are talking about and where can I learn
about it? Thanks, Randall True in Creston, Ca.
__________________________________
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: LE Slats 701/ reese |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
Reese-- I don't want to know your ass---- you guys
are starting to sound like the group "of good old
boys" that use to slam people on this list. flying a
701 without slats is STUPID-- "fred" do not archive
--- Duane <duane@mo-net.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Duane
> <duane@mo-net.com>
>
> Reese
>
> I won`t respond on list, but I have an 701. In my
> instruction book
>
> from Zenith Chris Heinz says you can do occasional
> spins in the 701.
>
> Duane
>
> Reese Nelson wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson"
> <reesen@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Sparked a bit huh? I'll bet that there was some
> performance analysis done
> > when the plane was on the drawing board that may
> have considered other
> > options and some original fight testing done that
> prompted Chris to say no
> > spins, maybe because of the slats. I like the
> folding wing option and the
> > building method. I also like spins but I wasn't
> considering flying outside
> > the planes limits, that's why I asked. Does this
> mean that a taildragger
> > with a radial engine are out of the question? :)
> Thanks for the CH152
> > suggestion.
> >
> > Reese
> >
> > ps, Fred, you don't know my ass well enough to say
> wether it's complete or
> > not.
> >
> > do not archive
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
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>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 16
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| Subject: | Beading aluminum tubing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
List,
In the effort to set the radiator back, aluminum tubes
that would join hoses or reach between the firewall hoses and radiator hose elbows,
one does need to raise an edge to make good the hose clamp
connections. I found that if a short steel plug with a taper is placed in each
end,
it can be hammered to bring both ends to a smooth radius flare. I'm, for now,
using
1"-.049 and bringing it to 1-1/8" flare which provides a serious grip over the
conventional
rolled hump.
Looking for a good heater core for this thing.
Larry McFarland - 601hds
Message 17
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| Subject: | eloquent- NO, honest- Yes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Sonberg" <2408s@cox-internet.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Poor
Subject: Zenith-List: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
Mark-- what is wrong with calling a spade a spade---
why didn't you ask him the same thing I did-- the guy
is a complete asshole for even considering doing such
a STUPID thing (or asking about it).. You go ahead and
be eloquent if you want ( I don't have such a nice
way with words as you do ) but I hate seeing folks
consider doing stupid shit and than people on this
list trying to "analyze" what went wrong and blaming
Chris Heintz for it--i.e. a while back you were all
talking about his weak tie down point, and come to
find out it was rotten rope. Reese-- build yourself
a 701, take the slats off, fly it, spin it, take a
video, put it on the web: so we can all enyoy it--no
sweat off my ass either way-- "fred" do not archive
I take exception to your reply. While the idea of a spinable 701 is in my
opinion a very bad idea and a very good way to get killed. I believe there
is no such thing as a stupid question. This gentleman put forth what he
believed to be a honest question. You are the ASSSSSShole. Learn to answer
questions not attack people.
Chuck
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:41:07 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Okay, Fred, a spade is a spade. Your emotionally over reactive way of responding
to an honest, if na=EFve inquiry, is akin to the hysteria most often exhibited
by women. Don Walker HDS (the Shrink)
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Poor
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 9:28 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
Mark-- what is wrong with calling a spade a spade---
why didn't you ask him the same thing I did-- the guy
is a complete asshole for even considering doing such
a STUPID thing (or asking about it).. You go ahead and
be eloquent if you want ( I don't have such a nice
way with words as you do ) but I hate seeing folks
consider doing stupid shit and than people on this
list trying to "analyze" what went wrong and blaming
Chris Heintz for it--i.e. a while back you were all
talking about his weak tie down point, and come to
find out it was rotten rope. Reese-- build yourself
a 701, take the slats off, fly it, spin it, take a
video, put it on the web: so we can all enyoy it--no
sweat off my ass either way-- "fred" do not archive
--- Zodie Rocket <601xl@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
> <601xl@sympatico.ca>
>
> Fred you could have been a little more eloquent, I
> understand the
> emotion and have slipped many times myself.
> Reese the 701 is a design that is STOL and slow. The
> designer has made
> the plane in this fashion for a reason. Now if you
> are willing to wait,
> when the new sport plane regs are finally released
> you will see Chris
> complete the CH152( I saw the wings today ;-) ). You
> may wish to wait,
> then you will have a plane that fly's like a 152 and
> is built along the
> Heintz tradition. I would not recommend trying to
> make the 701 into
> something it was never meant to be, we have lost too
> many friends in the
> last few years that liked to make mods or fly a
> plane outside it's
> design factors. That was the whole reason for
> calling it a sky Jeep, for
> it's design it is the best at what it does!
> Personally I think it is a
> bit "functionally" ugly (though not as UGLY as a
> Sonnex!!!) but
> strapped in the seats on a small grass strip the 701
> is a creation from
> the Wizard of OZ.(Straight UP Toto!!!)
>
> Mark Townsend
> 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> are you nuts????? ideas like this, give Cris and
> homebuilding/ experimental aircraft a bad rap--- try
> jumping off a roof with an umbrella-- should be just
> as exciting----- "fred" do not archive
>
>
> --- Reese Nelson <reesen@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson"
> > <reesen@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the
> LE
> > slats? I would be
> > willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the
> plane.
> >
> > Reese
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | eloquent- NO, honest- Yes |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:04:40 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Okay, Fred, a spade is a spade. Your emotionally over reactive way of responding
to an honest, if na=EFve inquiry, is akin to the hysteria most often exhibited
by women. Don Walker HDS (the Shrink) do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Poor
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 9:28 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: eloquent- NO, honest- Yes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
Mark-- what is wrong with calling a spade a spade---
why didn't you ask him the same thing I did-- the guy
is a complete %
&*& for even considering doing such
a STUPID thing (or asking about it).. You go ahead and
be eloquent if you want ( I don't have such a nice
way with words as you do ) but I hate seeing folks
consider doing stupid shit and than people on this
list trying to "analyze" what went wrong and blaming
Chris Heintz for it--i.e. a while back you were all
talking about his weak tie down point, and come to
find out it was rotten rope. Reese-- build yourself
a 701, take the slats off, fly it, spin it, take a
video, put it on the web: so we can all enyoy it--no
sweat off my *&$ either way-- "fred" do not archive
--- Zodie Rocket <601xl@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
> <601xl@sympatico.ca>
>
> Fred you could have been a little more eloquent, I
> understand the
> emotion and have slipped many times myself.
> Reese the 701 is a design that is STOL and slow. The
> designer has made
> the plane in this fashion for a reason. Now if you
> are willing to wait,
> when the new sport plane regs are finally released
> you will see Chris
> complete the CH152( I saw the wings today ;-) ). You
> may wish to wait,
> then you will have a plane that fly's like a 152 and
> is built along the
> Heintz tradition. I would not recommend trying to
> make the 701 into
> something it was never meant to be, we have lost too
> many friends in the
> last few years that liked to make mods or fly a
> plane outside it's
> design factors. That was the whole reason for
> calling it a sky Jeep, for
> it's design it is the best at what it does!
> Personally I think it is a
> bit "functionally" ugly (though not as UGLY as a
> Sonnex!!!) but
> strapped in the seats on a small grass strip the 701
> is a creation from
> the Wizard of OZ.(Straight UP Toto!!!)
>
> Mark Townsend
> 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> are you nuts????? ideas like this, give Cris and
> homebuilding/ experimental aircraft a bad rap--- try
> jumping off a roof with an umbrella-- should be just
> as exciting----- "fred" do not archive
>
>
> --- Reese Nelson <reesen@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Reese Nelson"
> > <reesen@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Does anyone know how the CH 701 flies without the
> LE
> > slats? I would be
> > willing to sacrifice STOL if I could spin the
> plane.
> >
> > Reese
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 20
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| Subject: | Zenith Newsletters |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
I am interested in reviewing the past issues of the Zenith newsletters... I
understand there are some interesting tidbits that might be useful in the
construction of my 701.
I do not want to waste another tree and order a set of copies for myself, so
I was wondering if anyone would be interested in 'loaning' me their copies
for a week after which I would return them. I would first send that person
a cash deposit to ensure they would in fact get them back from me in a
timely manner. Also, I would be happy to pay a fee for this service!
(deduct from my deposit for shipping/handling etc)
OK, I'm a cheapskate! But since these are not online (and why is this? ZAC
has a great website and email notification system), and if anyone would like
to recoupe some of their original cost of these newsletters and help a
builder out... then email me direct.
Thanks
Jon Croke
701 (w/slats firmly attached!) 90%
near Green Bay, Wi
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