Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:28 AM - Re: Re: Re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah (Monty Graves)
2. 07:46 AM - Re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah (David Tellet)
3. 09:10 AM - New Completions - Kit Planes (Scott Laughlin)
4. 09:58 AM - Re: New Completions - Kit Planes (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
5. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah (Gary Gower)
6. 10:07 AM - Re: New Completions - Kit Planes (Gary Gower)
7. 12:53 PM - 601's are good at X wind landings (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
8. 12:54 PM - Re: New Completions - Kit Planes (Brad Johnston)
9. 01:37 PM - Re: New Completions - Kit Planes (Scott Laughlin)
10. 02:05 PM - Re: 601's are good at X wind landings (jnbolding1)
11. 02:15 PM - 601 XL crosswind landing (Dave Kubassek)
12. 02:50 PM - Cortec Primer (Randall Thomure)
13. 02:54 PM - Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (David J. Dormer)
14. 03:17 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (Pwalsh4539@aol.com)
15. 03:30 PM - Re: New Completions - Kit Planes (n282rs)
16. 03:32 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (wizard-24@juno.com)
17. 04:51 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
18. 07:39 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (Eric Tauch)
19. 07:44 PM - Importing a Kit to Australia, cost,tax,gst,customs. (abc abc)
20. 08:02 PM - Re: Cortec Primer...373 vs 374 (Eric Tauch)
21. 08:27 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (Gary Gower)
22. 08:31 PM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (Michel Therrien)
23. 09:18 PM - Re: Cheap Hole Finder ()
24. 09:24 PM - Some updates... (Michel Therrien)
25. 09:31 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (Ray Montagne)
26. 09:57 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (randall true)
27. 10:27 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (CBRxxDRV@aol.com)
28. 10:56 PM - Kit Planes (Norman Turner)
29. 11:19 PM - Re: Kit Planes (Ray Montagne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
This is sort of off topic since its a Zenith list.
But I did a lot of looking at the Savannah at SnF. And there are a lot
more differences to the 701 than Zenith would probalby like us to believe.
These are the ones I know for sure that I observed.
1. longer wing span
2. fixed slats as the 701 but a much narrower slot opening and the best I
could measure with a piece of paper were a little longer slats than the 701
slats. i.e. they had a longer tail that rapped over the wing more about
3/4 inch
3. Tail is complety different. different shape, different size. And it
doesn't have the inverted horizontial stab for sure.
4. wing tips are made differently.
5 internal bulk heads are used in fuse are different.
6. Seats are different, looking behind the seats you can see the full
length of the plane
7. landing gear is attached to the fuse differently
8. corrigated skins to stop oil canning
So it has a different wing, different tail, different method to make the
fuse, different way to attach the landing gear, but the same general shape
and appearance.. How much does one have to change a plane to not be called
a copy?
Did all these changes make things better? I didn't fly the Savannah
Monty
Message 2
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| Subject: | re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Tellet <telletdl@erols.com>
From looking at their website it sure looks like they've ripped off the
design from Zenith - same overall configuration, wing slats, fuse
angle, etc. They even use the same Y center stick idea. Okay, so form
follows function, so it's just coincidence that their other plane, the
Amigo, looks just like a 601 HD without a bubble canopy. They even use
the same airfoil section! (how long before they "develop" a better
wing just like the XL?).
Who knows, maybe they've taken the Zenith planes and made them better,
but it sure smells suspicious and I for one will stick with the
originals.
David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
> This is sort of off topic since its a Zenith list.
>
> But I did a lot of looking at the Savannah at SnF. And there are a lot
>
<snip>
Message 3
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| Subject: | New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Fellow Zenith Listers:
I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my new
copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end usually
around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a paragraph
or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see any
completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new to
this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for some new
completions to be published.
I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have just
finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our name out
there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each month to
see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmm, For the first year I can remember at Arlington I was NOT the ONLY 601
there...Whats more Roy parked his plane next to mine!
I kind of enjoy the "special-ness" of the 601. I see many folk wander past
the lines and lines of beautiful RV's and not give most of them a second
look...They get to my (unpainted and covered in Bird dung!) heap and pay it
a whole bunch of attention and ask questions.
Its kind of fun, so I'm not all that desperate for swarms of ZAC's appearing
in magazines personally, 'cos then folks won't stop to ask..."What in the
world is that?"
When I builds an RV I will leave that unpainted too just to see if it has
the same effect...:)
For those who saw N6380H and I didn't get to meet...I hope it didn't look
too shabby.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Laughlin [mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: New Completions - Kit Planes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
--> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Fellow Zenith Listers:
I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my new
copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end usually
around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a paragraph
or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see any
completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new to
this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for some new
completions to be published.
I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have just
finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our name out
there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each month to
see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: re: LE slats closing slot/Savannah |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I think the same as you. Going faster (5 mph) in an airplane is not
that important (at least for me). If in a hurry I go by airline, is
useless to get there fast if flying is what I am enjoying! If
somebody is really in a hurry, there are always chances of getting
cought by the climate, so in first place, go flying in another ocasion
when you have all the time you need.
About Safety: I can't find a safer line of airplanes in his class than
ZAC's. More than 30 years experience says it all. Of course we need
to get off the incindents or accidents related to pilot error or engine
failure, they are important but has nothing to do with the airplane
design.
I also think that in airplanes, making an airplane lighter is the only
way to improve it, and takes a lot of knowledge to do this without
compromise structural safety in this airplanes, building the 701
proved to me that it cant be built lighter, great design.
There is always something to pay for everything. Want a faster
airplane? I am shure it "needs" a more proficient pilot, the fact that
we are weekenders (50 hrs a year average}.
Just one point of view.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- David Tellet <telletdl@erols.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Tellet <telletdl@erols.com>
>
> From looking at their website it sure looks like they've ripped off
> the
> design from Zenith - same overall configuration, wing slats, fuse
> angle, etc. They even use the same Y center stick idea. Okay, so
> form
> follows function, so it's just coincidence that their other plane,
> the
> Amigo, looks just like a 601 HD without a bubble canopy. They even
> use
> the same airfoil section! (how long before they "develop" a better
> wing just like the XL?).
>
> Who knows, maybe they've taken the Zenith planes and made them
> better,
> but it sure smells suspicious and I for one will stick with the
> originals.
>
> David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
> >
> > This is sort of off topic since its a Zenith list.
> >
> > But I did a lot of looking at the Savannah at SnF. And there are a
> lot
> >
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Someone knows if is needed to be a subscriber to Kitplanes to get the
photo published? I buy it at the newstand, I have the chance to get a
look to it and buy it only if I find something interesting enough.
The few there last less than a week and are sold out.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Fellow Zenith Listers:
>
> I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my
> new
> copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end
> usually
> around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a
> paragraph
> or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
>
> RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see
> any
> completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new
> to
> this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for
> some new
> completions to be published.
>
> I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have
> just
> finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our
> name out
> there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each
> month to
> see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | 601's are good at X wind landings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
For the group that may have wondered what its like to land a 601 in a high
cross wind I have the following data.
My worst X wind landing was last Saturday at Corvallis, OR. Wind was 70deg
from the right at 19Kts, gusting 28Kts.
It was made a little more hair raising because I had 35 mins of fuel
remaining but exactly which wing tank it was all in was a bit of a question
(I have wing tanks only).
I darn't put the thing in a slip because if the fuel was all in the right
tank the engine would have quit on final...So I did the crab approach and
turned into a slip over the threashold.
I got blown over to the grass a couple of times but other than that the
plane handled it really nicely.
It was on of my better landings...:)
Frank
601 HDS Soob, 299 hours
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Johnston" <bradley.johnston@rogers.com>
Hey cool! Which issue had the Chuckbird in it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: New Completions - Kit Planes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
<cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Fellow Zenith Listers:
>
> I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my new
> copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end usually
> around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a paragraph
> or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
> RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see any
> completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new to
> this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for some new
> completions to be published.
>
> I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have just
> finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our name
out
> there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each month to
> see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
I'll check when I get home this evening and get back to you. Better yet, I
can scan the photo and email it to you.
do not archive
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Brad Johnston" <bradley.johnston@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Completions - Kit Planes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Johnston"
<bradley.johnston@rogers.com>
Hey cool! Which issue had the Chuckbird in it?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 601's are good at X wind landings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>I darn't put the thing in a slip because if the fuel was all in the right
>tank the engine would have quit on final...So I did the crab approach and
>turned into a slip over the threashold.
>
>I got blown over to the grass a couple of times but other than that the
>plane handled it really nicely.
>
>It was on of my better landings...:)
>
Funny how that when you're knee deep in adrenelin your focus and execution are
very precise, huh? jb
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601 XL crosswind landing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
One morning while getting my check out on the XL owned by Flypass and we had crosswinds
of 15 gusting 25 at 30-40 degrees off the runway and she handled them
very well.
dave kubassek
C-FDSF 601 XL w/0235 Lyc.Still grinning :
)))) 3.5 hrs and starting to relax a little.
Everything preforming wonderfull.
I think i will install the 600 x 6 wheels vs the 5" and things should smooth out
a little for grass strip operation
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Thomure" <rthomure@ameritech.net>
I got in contact with Cortec today about their primers.
They recommended the VpCI-374, instead of the 373.
The 373 needs to be top coated, where the 374 is OK without a top coat.
Unfortunately they only sell the stuff in 5 gal and 55 gal drums.
Would there be enough interest for them to stock the stuff in quarts?
Ill try to get some price estimates for 5 gals and their price for smaller
lots.
Your guess on demand would be appreciated.
Randy Thomure
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David J. Dormer" <revdjd@gci.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: David J. Dormer
Subject: Re: New Completions - Kit Planes
Mr. Laughlin:
I, too, have made the same observation regarding what appears to be the greater
popularity of the RV airplane over that of the Zenith line. It would appear to
the outside observer that the RV line has something going for it that Zenith
doesn't and I wish I knew what that "something" was. It certainly isn't cost
and I say this because it is my understanding that building an RV is more expensive,
overall, than building a Zenith. I don't think it is ease of construction
for I have been told, by those who should know, that building an RV is more
difficult. All this makes me wonder if the RV's popularity has to do with a belief
that it is a better engineered airplane, with greater quality, when it comes
to the parts and materials that make up the airplane? Or could it be that
the RV line simply has more models available for sale than that of Zenith? All
this is pure speculation on my part. However, it is very apparent that the RV
is more popular as a kitplane given the numbers out there and the "cottage industries"
that have come into existence that provide after-market accessories
for RV aircraft. In any case, it is to be sure that there must be some solid
reasons for its popularity. I wish I knew what they are.
D.J. Dormer
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com
RV popularity vs Zenith.......Resale is one reason. Speed is another. Also,
some see it as a "real" airplane as opposed to a 601 being a semi-ultralite.
This is what I have heard people say, not that it is of any importance to me, as
I love my 601, except the resale part. An RV does have higher resale. Oh
maybe the "real" rivets...flush, etc. make it more of a airplane to many, or the
aluminum is "real" aircraft aluminum. Of course RVs use Lycomings as standard
fare, as opposed to the Rotaxes, which still have not caught on with the
certified crowd and the RV is viewed as a "certified" experimental, if that makes
any sense. Rotaxes are still thought of as snowmobile engines by many. This is
not how I personally feel, but again it is what I have heard
Patrick Walsh
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n282rs" <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
> .They get to my (unpainted and covered in Bird dung!)
Hey, mine resembles that remark! Except I have clecos still holding parts of
it together.
Our chapter had a pancake breakfast a couple of months ago, and there were
lots of nice looking birds that showed up. I thought I would taxi out and
park my Zodiac with the flying planes. I had lots of people looking it over
and asking questions. The only one there that seemed to get more attention
was a very nice looking Hummelbird. I was left standing there scratching my
head trying to figure out why everyone was so interested in a incomplete
Zodiac.
I'm wanting to submit a completion picture and story for both Kitplanes and
Sport Aviation, but I need get it flying (soon) and paint it first.
Randy Stout
VW powered CH 601 HD 99.9% complete
n282rs@sbcglobal.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> RV's popularity has to do with a belief that it is a better
> engineered airplane, with greater quality, when it comes to the
> parts and materials that make up the airplane?
That's precisely it, in my opinion. I've seen RV's being built, and
compared to the 601XL kit I received, there's a substantial difference in
quality -- in both the components that make up the kit, and in the plans
& manuals. Not to mention that the RV's performance is better (although
the engine choices are limited and expensive). Having said that (and
before I get flamed) -- the Zodiac serves its purpose well, in being
cheaper and quicker to build. Depends on what you're looking for. Some
people buy Lexus', others buy Hondas.
> apparent that the RV is more popular as a kitplane given the numbers
> out there
And the marketplace is the best benchmark we have in determining value.
In fact, I see more of ZAC's marketing materials than I do Van's -- yet
the RV is still far more prevalent. And don't forget about resale value,
if that's something that interests you. Me -- I'll never sell this thing
(wouldn't have the guts to assume the liability), so it'll die when I do
(hopefully not at the same time!). But if you're the type that wants to
sell eventually -- then that's a consideration too.
Not trying to talk anyone out of a Zodie -- after all, it's the choice I
made -- but hey -- he asked! :)
do not archive
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I too have seen several RV's built. The quality of the kits is almost beyond
belief, especially the quickbuilds. You don't even need a flat table, all
the holes are predrilled and line up perfectly. The only holes that do NOT
line up on my plane are the ones ZAC drilled!
There are now a number of automotive conversions available for RV's too,
although they tend to be unpopular, probably does not help the resale value.
Lets face it even the slowest RV9 with a 118HP engine is about 50mph faster
than any zodiac (at least excluding the XL).
I have a friend who has built 3 RV's. Makes money on every one (excluding
his labour).
However, if your happy at cruising at 105 to 110mph on 4.8 GPH, the amount
of gear you can get in a ZAC far outstrips any of the RV's. This is very
important to me.
Now if I could sell it for what I put into it I might build another plane.
FWIW
Frank
Do not archive
Mr. Laughlin:
I, too, have made the same observation regarding what appears to be the
greater popularity of the RV airplane over that of the Zenith line. It would
appear to the outside observer that the RV line has something going for it
that Zenith doesn't and I wish I knew what that "something" was. It
certainly isn't cost and I say this because it is my understanding that
building an RV is more expensive, overall, than building a Zenith. I don't
think it is ease of construction for I have been told, by those who should
know, that building an RV is more difficult. All this makes me wonder if the
RV's popularity has to do with a belief that it is a better engineered
airplane, with greater quality, when it comes to the parts and materials
that make up the airplane? Or could it be that the RV line simply has more
models available for sale than that of Zenith? All this is pure speculation
on my part. However, it is very apparent that the RV is more popular as a
kitplane given the numbers ou! t there and the "cottage industries" that
have come into existence that provide after-market accessories for RV
aircraft. In any case, it is to be sure that there must be some solid
reasons for its popularity. I wish I knew what they are.
D.J. Dormer
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net>
I am not so sure that Vans has sold many more RVs than Zenith has sold
Zodiacs...I think the sales figures are
in the "same ballpark". One thing I have heard is that Zenith sells a lot
more overseas as well as
domestically, -vs- Vans sells mainly in the US.
I have RV8 tailkit and plans that I plan on finishing some day. First I
will finish the 601XL, as its much
faster to build. My opinion, comparing the two is similar to comparing a
Volkswagen to a Ford Mustang.
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> > RV's popularity has to do with a belief that it is a better
> > engineered airplane, with greater quality, when it comes to the
> > parts and materials that make up the airplane?
>
> That's precisely it, in my opinion. I've seen RV's being built, and
> compared to the 601XL kit I received, there's a substantial difference in
>>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Importing a Kit to Australia, cost,tax,gst,customs. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: abc abc <yah67890@yahoo.com>
Has anyone had experience importing a kit to Australia?.
I am thinking about the handling charges ,customs,import duty, sales tax, storage,
quarantine, gst, shipping time.
Did you have a broker?, Cost? and Problems?.
Any sites that may be useful?.
Many thanks
Tony
---------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Cortec Primer...373 vs 374 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net>
I would be interested in getting some, but I was wondering why ZAC went with
the 373. It may be because
it is a wash primer and is thus very thin/light (?).
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Thomure" <rthomure@ameritech.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec Primer
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Thomure"
<rthomure@ameritech.net>
>
> I got in contact with Cortec today about their primers.
> They recommended the VpCI-374, instead of the 373.
> The 373 needs to be top coated, where the 374 is OK without a top coat.
>
> Unfortunately they only sell the stuff in 5 gal and 55 gal drums.
>
> Would there be enough interest for them to stock the stuff in quarts?
>
> Ill try to get some price estimates for 5 gals and their price for smaller
> lots.
>
> Your guess on demand would be appreciated.
>
> Randy Thomure
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
RV's company is very big.
Bigger company, bigger investment, bigger marketing, etc.
That is why WalMart is bigger than the store in the corner of our
neghborhood...
This also implies more (financial) risk and more managing problems for
the owner(s), ZAC is a lower size family company...
Bigger bussiness, more investors, later they will "buy" you out...
Another opinion, I can be wrong... Maybe I am always wrong :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- "David J. Dormer" <revdjd@gci.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David J. Dormer" <revdjd@gci.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David J. Dormer
> To: cookwithgas@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: New Completions - Kit Planes
>
>
> Mr. Laughlin:
>
> I, too, have made the same observation regarding what appears to be
> the greater popularity of the RV airplane over that of the Zenith
> line. It would appear to the outside observer that the RV line has
> something going for it that Zenith doesn't and I wish I knew what
> that "something" was. It certainly isn't cost and I say this because
> it is my understanding that building an RV is more expensive,
> overall, than building a Zenith. I don't think it is ease of
> construction for I have been told, by those who should know, that
> building an RV is more difficult. All this makes me wonder if the
> RV's popularity has to do with a belief that it is a better
> engineered airplane, with greater quality, when it comes to the parts
> and materials that make up the airplane? Or could it be that the RV
> line simply has more models available for sale than that of Zenith?
> All this is pure speculation on my part. However, it is very apparent
> that the RV is more popular as a kitplane given the numbers ou!
> t there and the "cottage industries" that have come into existence
> that provide after-market accessories for RV aircraft. In any case,
> it is to be sure that there must be some solid reasons for its
> popularity. I wish I knew what they are.
>
> D.J. Dormer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Weatherstrip adhesive |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Thanks Fred for those details... I bought and used
PolyZap. Much easier to use than the slow setting
Weatherstrip adhesive.
Michel, oh yes.... C-GZGQ!
--- Fred or Sandy Hulen <hulens61@birch.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy
> Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
>
> > The other one is Poly-Zap. There was
> > a thread on this list several years ago about
> Poly-Zap which you may find
> > helpful.
> > Bill
>
> ++ I can offer some information on this as I have
> given clinics on "instant
> glues" and have used more of the stuff than you can
> ever imagine. One of my....
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cheap Hole Finder |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
You're right, my Q/D hole finder is very similar to your flange finder, of
which I made two of different sizes from your picture. They worked great. I
filed a small notch (sharpie tip size) at measured distances to make drawing
the rivet line easier. If everybody shared their ingenious home made tool
ideas there'd be quite a library of homebrew solutions!! By the way, those
old-fashioned steel bed rails make pretty slick mini sheet metal brakes.
Probably everybody knows that, however.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cheap Hole Finder
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
<cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Paul:
>
> I didn't quite follow your description, but is sounds similar to my flange
> finder pictured here:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_02_03_FlangeFinder.jpg
>
> Your idea of putting the rivet-part is a good one for finding a hole.
Mine
> is more like for finding the center of a flange before drilling.
>
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
> To: "zenith-list" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Cheap Hole Finder
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:02:27 -0500
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
>
> I lucked into this, and thought I'd pass it on------ As a result of yet
> another malfunction of the linkage between my hat and my neck, I found I
had
> to lay an undrilled piece of sheet aluminum over a pre-drilled piece, and
> then figure out how to find a hole several inches from the edge. Being
too
> cheap to go buy a hole finder, as well as skeptical about finding one the
> size I needed, I tried this and it worked: I took two straight, narrow
> pieces of aluminum, lined them up one on top of the other, and securely
> riveted one end. Then, I drilled a hole (#30 in this case) through both
> pieces at the other end. I then removed the business end of an A-4 rivet
> from the stem, stuck it through the bottom piece, and laid a piece of
> masking tape on to hold it in place. Sliding the lower piece under the
> undrilled sheet, I wiggled it around until it fell into the hole, and
there
> I was looking at the spot to drill. I imagine others have figured out
> this quick and dirty solution, b!
> ut I thought I'd pass it on anyway.
> It anybody has figure out other work aids, I'd like to hear about
them
> (Probably we ALL would.)
>
> SECOND SUBJECT--- Has anybody figured out what headlight components would
> make good landing lights? I'm looking to use small halogens from my local
> junkyard.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601 XL-Corvair still working on the wings.
>
>
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
do not archive
A few things. I successfully made the openings on my
cowling this week. The process is shown on my updated
web site for those of you who are interested. Thanks
to all that provided ideas for this!
I also installed the labels for the switches and
placards on my inst. panel. I used the technique
described on the RV Journal and I'm very satisfied
with the result. This is shown on my instruments
panel finishing page.
About the cowling and canopy... I'm finishing the
cowling (put micro balloon on it today) and the
canopy... ordered additional weatherstrip from ZAC
after a mistake I've made practicing the glueing
techniques... I don't know when I'll update the web
site with the associated details.
Thanks again to all who helped me on these things!
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/16/03 6:35 PM, "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net>
>
> I am not so sure that Vans has sold many more RVs than Zenith has sold
> Zodiacs...I think the sales figures are
> in the "same ballpark".
Vans has sold over 7000 kits.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
Message 26
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| Subject: | Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
Frank, you bring up a question for me and my lack of
airport hangout exposure. If the predrilled holes are
so helpfull on an RV, why does it take a year or two
to build a zenith, and 4 to 8 years for an RV? Those
seem to me to be typical numbers under the completion
pictures in my years of back issues of Kitplane.
Randall
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK
> (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I too have seen several RV's built. The quality of
> the kits is almost beyond
> belief, especially the quickbuilds. You don't even
> need a flat table, all
> the holes are predrilled and line up perfectly. The
> only holes that do NOT
> line up on my plane are the ones ZAC drilled!
>
> There are now a number of automotive conversions
> available for RV's too,
> although they tend to be unpopular, probably does
> not help the resale value.
>
> Lets face it even the slowest RV9 with a 118HP
> engine is about 50mph faster
> than any zodiac (at least excluding the XL).
>
> I have a friend who has built 3 RV's. Makes money on
> every one (excluding
> his labour).
>
> However, if your happy at cruising at 105 to 110mph
> on 4.8 GPH, the amount
> of gear you can get in a ZAC far outstrips any of
> the RV's. This is very
> important to me.
>
> Now if I could sell it for what I put into it I
> might build another plane.
>
> FWIW
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Mr. Laughlin:
>
> I, too, have made the same observation regarding
> what appears to be the
> greater popularity of the RV airplane over that of
> the Zenith line. It would
> appear to the outside observer that the RV line has
> something going for it
> that Zenith doesn't and I wish I knew what that
> "something" was. It
> certainly isn't cost and I say this because it is my
> understanding that
> building an RV is more expensive, overall, than
> building a Zenith. I don't
> think it is ease of construction for I have been
> told, by those who should
> know, that building an RV is more difficult. All
> this makes me wonder if the
> RV's popularity has to do with a belief that it is a
> better engineered
> airplane, with greater quality, when it comes to the
> parts and materials
> that make up the airplane? Or could it be that the
> RV line simply has more
> models available for sale than that of Zenith? All
> this is pure speculation
> on my part. However, it is very apparent that the RV
> is more popular as a
> kitplane given the numbers ou! t there and the
> "cottage industries" that
> have come into existence that provide after-market
> accessories for RV
> aircraft. In any case, it is to be sure that there
> must be some solid
> reasons for its popularity. I wish I knew what they
> are.
>
> D.J. Dormer
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List
> members.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com
In a message dated 7/17/03 12:32:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ac6qj@earthlink.net writes:
> Vans has sold over 7000 kits.
>
Before we start counting kits remember the numbers are based on
plans and or tail kits not complete kits. That goes for both ZAC and
Vans. The companys count each serial number as a sale. I am
sure there are lots of tail kits for ZAC and VANS sitting in garages.
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html">My Home Page
http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
Message 28
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Norman Turner <normsflighttraining@bigpond.com>
Hi all on the list, Hey girls and guys lets keep the ZENITH LIST for all of us
who are flying or building ZENITH aircraft . If the RV's builders or / and flyers
wish to comment on RV's then do it on your web site not on the ZENITH site.
It is in my personal opinion that this site is for the builders and flyers of
ZENITHS benefit that we all communicate on this site to better our knowledge
and ensure that others who follow in our footsteps learn by our experiences and
not try to re-invent the wheel, Just my opinion! I personally have met many
new friends from this site and have learned so much the my little brain is working
overtime continually. At the first chance I get, this bucket of electrons
is turned on so I can read the latest news on zenith tips and how to doo's and
not to doo's . All I can say is I'm a ZODIAC 601 HDS flyer (not builder) and
I am very proud of it,I have also been the test person for a kit built 701 built
in W.A. Australia then flew it across the desest to Ali
to the owner, it is a job I do with pride and faith in Zenith aircraft. This site
is just great for information on any subject on ZENITH aircraft , wether it
is to do with building or mods to your pet zenith. My thoughts ,and I might
add the ZAC factory are always happy to answer any questions you may have no matter
how silly you may think they are ( boy!!! have I asked some stupid questions
in the past) and received very constructive answers( with no malice), Cheers
to all from a very happy zodiac 601 hds rotax 912/ 232hrs flyer @ 16 lph fuel
consumption and 90kts thanks ZAC. Norm Turner CFI Top End Ultralight Club
Northern Territory Australia. Do not archive.
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/16/03 10:51 PM, "Norman Turner" <normsflighttraining@bigpond.com>
wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Norman Turner
> <normsflighttraining@bigpond.com>
>
> Hi all on the list, Hey girls and guys lets keep the ZENITH LIST for all of us
> who are flying or building ZENITH aircraft .
I am a Zenith builder and I believe everyone in this discussion is too!
Discussion of the relative merits of any aircraft usually yields ideas
relevant or at least related to our own projects. To limit the scope of our
discussion is a stifling idea. Innovation springs from taking good ideas
and evolving them into better ideas. I welcome the open discussion. IMHO,
it is a far better situation to filter those things that are not of value to
us at our own screens then to muzzle the list members.
DO NOT ACHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
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