Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Re: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 (jnbolding1)
2. 05:56 AM - Update on XL (Dave Kubassek)
3. 07:55 AM - Re: Seat belt attachments (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
4. 08:08 AM - Re: Cortec 373 (nhulin)
5. 08:16 AM - 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH (nhulin)
6. 08:29 AM - Re: Update on XL (Daniel Vandenberg)
7. 09:29 AM - Re: Re: Update on XL (Dave Kubassek)
8. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: Update on XL (Don Walker)
9. 10:30 AM - XL - main gear attach bolts (David Barth)
10. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: Update on XL (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
11. 11:11 AM - Re: Update on XL (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
12. 12:24 PM - Re: XL - main gear attach bolts (George Swinford)
13. 12:55 PM - Re: Update on XL (Dave Kubassek)
14. 01:00 PM - Re: XL - main gear attach bolts (Dave Kubassek)
15. 01:29 PM - Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH (Brian Caithcart)
16. 02:20 PM - Re: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 (Larry McFarland)
17. 02:38 PM - Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH (nhulin)
18. 02:50 PM - 601/Corvair Engine Mount - Show of hands please (nhulin)
19. 03:05 PM - Re: XL - main gear attach bolts (Rick Pitcher)
20. 03:09 PM - Wing Tank Transfer (Schallgren@aol.com)
21. 03:17 PM - Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH (Rick Pitcher)
22. 03:19 PM - Re: Wing Tank Transfer (Dave Pepper)
23. 03:36 PM - Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS (Schallgren@aol.com)
24. 04:08 PM - Re: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 (michael michael)
25. 04:08 PM - Wing Tank Transfer (Schallgren@aol.com)
26. 04:20 PM - Re: Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
27. 04:22 PM - Re: Wing Tank Transfer (Dave Pepper)
28. 04:34 PM - Re: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 (Clifton J. Bardwell)
29. 06:31 PM - Re: XL - main gear attach bolts (Dave Alberti)
30. 08:02 PM - Re: 601/Corvair Engine Mount - Show of hands please (Scott Laughlin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
She wants
>the Bearhawk. I'm going to take her to Oshkosh in a couple of weeks and
>show her how much sewing she will have to do on the fabric Fuselage of
>the Bearhawk.
Mark Next door neighbor is about 2500 hrs into a Bearhawk (his 3rd scratchbuilt
airplane) and has maybe 1000 to go.He is an IA and works pretty quickly. He
has everything covered up thru the silver and the only sewing is the fin, maybe
2 hrs but this is a big project . If you scratchbuild it you can have it
on the gear ready for engine, instruments and paint for $10K or less. It's an
AWESOME airplane, not your average pattern pony. Neighbors name is Bill Cox and
he will be helping out in the Bearhawk booth. LOW&SLOW JOHN
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
For those of you enquiring
An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
w/Lyc 0235.
We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
Flew 1.5 on sat am.
I am begining to relax and starting to enjoy(Love) the experience
I am not used to going so far in such a short time,,,,,,WOW
Circuits and touring at stratford, woodstock and tillsonburg.
Engine temps are now down in mid green range(180 deg.) now that we have a few hrs
on this 0 timed engine. she purrs like a kitten.with a 7gph fuel consumption
Climb rpm 2500 with 1000- 1200 fpm at 80 mph.
with full fuel myself (210 lbs) and my 14 year old son (130 lbs).( i had to ask
him to finally stop saying "Dad ,this is So Awesome" at least on final approach
:
))...)
cruise speed with the warp drive set at 10 deg. is indicating 110 mph confirmed
with gps. to be quite accurate.
On Take off and landing, try to avoid steep climb or flare angle as i found i
was cutting some little grooves in the grass with my tie down ring at the rear.
Just dont be too agressive with the stick at this point. alow it rather to build
a little more speed and let it rather fly off v/s hauling it off as i was doing.
And on landing ,let your flare angle be a little less steep.
This thing actually has a very nice glide and i am vitually after a couple dozen
ciruits virtually greasing it on every time.
Not that i am any great pilot , it is just very nice handle and fly once you get
the find the sweet spots. I am like Tottally impressed!
At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w installing
lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail at this
point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
A note to those who are at the point of installing your aileron trim motor ........
Add a peice of metal let say8-10" square between the motor and the aileron.
What is happening is when you have full down deflection the top skin is showing
a slight buckling upwards...
I'm thinking a stiffner plate under there would eliminate that???
Other than that, what can i say AWESOME :
)))
She flys and handles like a dream,just plain Beautifull.
It was worth every minute of effort it took to acomplish this.(which at this time
is almost forgotten)
P.S. My poor old champ is pouting in the back of the hanger now.
I walked by her yesterday and she like totally ignored me and looked the other
way.
So i fired her up and took her for a spin and gave her back her old spot at the
front of the hanger, and now all is well again,peace has been restored.
Bless you Dudes
dave k
Message 3
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| Subject: | Seat belt attachments |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
space....:)
Mine are in the wings, I'd rather rip them off and leave them behind while I
calculate how long it will take me to assemble the RV 7 quickbuild kit when
AIG coughs up the dough!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Bockius [mailto:bruce@whiteantelopesoftware.com]
He personally thought since the human body can withstand many more
horizontal g's than vertical, plus that most aircraft have much more 'crush
space' ahead of you than below you, that in an emergency landing in the
always-to-short clearing he would much rather run into the trees at the end
than to prang it down onto the ground in an effort to avoid the trees.
On the positive side the ZAC designs pretty much described his safest
plane: tractor design, metal (actually steel tube & fabric was a little
safer he said), slow stall speeds.
-Bruce/601HD/Stratus/TDO/375hrs
> I also went through the calculations and it appeared that the 0.040
> straps were sized for the 175 lb person for 9 gs. Didn't
> look like the
> 1.33 was used for the fitting sizes. But my straps in the kit appear
> to be 0.063. I still beefed them up a little to prevent the
> bolt from
> pulling through and because I doubt I'll see 175 again.
>
>
> David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
On Sun Jul 20 at 11:45 AM H. Robert Schoenberger (HRS4@prodigy.net) wrote:
List . . . I've ordered a quart of Cortec 373 from ZAC to try in my basement
"aircraft factory". <snip> I would appreciate any thoughts you might have
on suitable non-toxic / non-flamable products or procedures which can be
used prior to the application of the 373.
Hap,
I've been using the Cortec since the beginning of the project a couple of
years ago. I only apply it between surfaces that mate. I've been cleaning
the aluminium with soapy water and scotchbrite pads. Rinse the soap off and
the water will bead when it is clean. No nasty chemicals just a strong arm,
a fresh pad, and a few minutes time. No cleanup after either, just towel it
down. I apply the Cortec using disposable gloves and a small square of foam.
Because I use such a little amount I decant a small quantity into a plastic
35mm film canister. The canister is close enough to an airtight seal so I
don't have much wastage. The exposed aluminium is left without any covering
since I' not sure what paint process I will use and I didn't have any
information about the Cortec's compatibility with anything else.
One more thing - make sure it is absolutely dry before you put the pieces
together because you'll never get them apart afterwards.
...neil
Neil Hulin
Cincinnati, OH
Zodiac 601XL/Corvair
(See the engine mount at OSH at the Contact! magazine booth)
Forward Fuselage
Message 5
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| Subject: | 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Listers,
I've just found out from William Wynne that there will be two engine mounts
on display at Oshkosh. One will be available for purchase at the show to
save some shipping costs. For more information and some pictures check out
William's Q and A page at http://www.flycorvair.com/qanda.html
To use this mount you will have to obtain the 6B6-4 and 6B6-5 engine mount
fittings for the O-235 mount from ZAC or grind out the existing bolts and
weld in some AN6-23 bolts - messy but doable. This mount will also require a
custom cowl.
...neil
Neil Hulin
601XL/Corvair
Forward Fuselage
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: Update on XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
Dave...
Thank's for the update. Just curious on your cruise speeds...have you added wheel
pants/fairings yet? Is your prop pitch optimized for cruise or for climb?
I believe Zenith quotes 75% cruise speeds for the O-235 XL at 138 mph...I would
hope for real world speeds around 120 mph.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html
Dan
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
For those of you enquiring
An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
w/Lyc 0235.
We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
Flew 1.5 on sat am.
I am begining to relax and starting to enjoy(Love) the experience
I am not used to going so far in such a short time,,,,,,WOW
Circuits and touring at stratford, woodstock and tillsonburg.
Engine temps are now down in mid green range(180 deg.) now that we have a few hrs
on this 0 timed engine. she purrs like a kitten.with a 7gph fuel consumption
Climb rpm 2500 with 1000- 1200 fpm at 80 mph.
with full fuel myself (210 lbs) and my 14 year old son (130 lbs).( i had to ask
him to finally stop saying "Dad ,this is So Awesome" at least on final approach
:
))...)
cruise speed with the warp drive set at 10 deg. is indicating 110 mph confirmed
with gps. to be quite accurate.
On Take off and landing, try to avoid steep climb or flare angle as i found i
was cutting some little grooves in the grass with my tie down ring at the rear.
Just dont be too agressive with the stick at this point. alow it rather to build
a little more speed and let it rather fly off v/s hauling it off as i was doing.
And on landing ,let your flare angle be a little less steep.
This thing actually has a very nice glide and i am vitually after a couple dozen
ciruits virtually greasing it on every time.
Not that i am any great pilot , it is just very nice handle and fly once you get
the find the sweet spots. I am like Tottally impressed!
At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w installing
lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail at this
point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
A note to those who are at the point of installing your aileron trim motor ........
Add a peice of metal let say8-10" square between the motor and the aileron.
What is happening is when you have full down deflection the top skin is showing
a slight buckling upwards...
I'm thinking a stiffner plate under there would eliminate that???
Other than that, what can i say AWESOME :
)))
She flys and handles like a dream,just plain Beautifull.
It was worth every minute of effort it took to acomplish this.(which at this time
is almost forgotten)
P.S. My poor old champ is pouting in the back of the hanger now.
I walked by her yesterday and she like totally ignored me and looked the other
way.
So i fired her up and took her for a spin and gave her back her old spot at the
front of the hanger, and now all is well again,peace has been restored.
Bless you Dudes
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Update on XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
Hi Daniel
I too was hoping for speeds around 115-120 realisticlly.
No wheel pants yet as i may be installing 6" wheels to smooth thing out a
little more for all the grass strips i fly into .
But i am finding as i get the feel of things a liitle better my landing on
grass are becoming a whole lot smoother and maybe the 5" wheels may be
allrite after all, time will tell..
At this time my climb was my main concern ,and down the road i may take
another degree or so out of the pitch and along with the wheel pants i am
quite confident that 120 mph should be very attainable.
Rite now with the 02235 reving at 2550 1 have 110 mph.
Red line on the engine is 2800 so i have a little to play with.
Rite now with Max load 0f 1400 lbs i am off in approx 650 ft .
Landing roll with out accessive braking 850-900 ft
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Vandenberg" <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Update on XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
>
> Dave...
>
> Thank's for the update. Just curious on your cruise speeds...have you
added wheel pants/fairings yet? Is your prop pitch optimized for cruise or
for climb? I believe Zenith quotes 75% cruise speeds for the O-235 XL at
138 mph...I would hope for real world speeds around 120 mph.
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html
>
> Dan
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
>
> For those of you enquiring
> An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
> w/Lyc 0235.
> We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
> Flew 1.5 on sat am.
> I am begining to relax and starting to enjoy(Love) the experience
> I am not used to going so far in such a short time,,,,,,WOW
> Circuits and touring at stratford, woodstock and tillsonburg.
> Engine temps are now down in mid green range(180 deg.) now that we have a
few hrs
> on this 0 timed engine. she purrs like a kitten.with a 7gph fuel
consumption
> Climb rpm 2500 with 1000- 1200 fpm at 80 mph.
> with full fuel myself (210 lbs) and my 14 year old son (130 lbs).( i had
to ask
> him to finally stop saying "Dad ,this is So Awesome" at least on final
approach
> :
> ))...)
> cruise speed with the warp drive set at 10 deg. is indicating 110 mph
confirmed
> with gps. to be quite accurate.
> On Take off and landing, try to avoid steep climb or flare angle as i
found i
> was cutting some little grooves in the grass with my tie down ring at the
rear.
> Just dont be too agressive with the stick at this point. alow it rather to
build
> a little more speed and let it rather fly off v/s hauling it off as i was
doing.
> And on landing ,let your flare angle be a little less steep.
> This thing actually has a very nice glide and i am vitually after a couple
dozen
> ciruits virtually greasing it on every time.
> Not that i am any great pilot , it is just very nice handle and fly once
you get
> the find the sweet spots. I am like Tottally impressed!
> At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w
installing
> lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail at
this
> point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
> A note to those who are at the point of installing your aileron trim motor
........
> Add a peice of metal let say8-10" square between the motor and the
aileron.
> What is happening is when you have full down deflection the top skin is
showing
> a slight buckling upwards...
> I'm thinking a stiffner plate under there would eliminate that???
> Other than that, what can i say AWESOME :
> )))
> She flys and handles like a dream,just plain Beautifull.
> It was worth every minute of effort it took to acomplish this.(which at
this time
> is almost forgotten)
> P.S. My poor old champ is pouting in the back of the hanger now.
> I walked by her yesterday and she like totally ignored me and looked the
other
> way.
> So i fired her up and took her for a spin and gave her back her old spot
at the
> front of the hanger, and now all is well again,peace has been restored.
> Bless you Dudes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Update on XL |
Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:58:13 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
ZAC speeds.
I love my HDS and the attention it gets. Taildraggers are great!! I bought
my kit in '93 after flying the prototype at the Tulsa fly-in in '92. Nick and
Sebastian were absolutely great in helping me complete my plane. I just put three
hundred hours on it yesterday. First flight June 1999.
I also spoke quite a while that day and flew with Randy Shlitter of Rans Aircraft.
Randy tried to be diplomatic but was cautioning me about the speed claims
of "other" kitplanes. I knew he was referring to Zenith.
The days I flew with Nick in the HDS we did 120 easily in the pattern with
no strain. And of course they instructed us to get static pressure right out of
the cabin in setting up the air speed.(We were actually doing about 100 to 105).
Looking back now over the past ten years, I am certain that air speed is the
only thing ZAC has been consciously deceptive about. Claiming a cruise of 140
for the prototype HDS wasn't fair to us. The 135 they lowered it to is still
out of reach for all but the rare bird. I am not planning on building an XL,
and I am a supporter of these designs, but it is disheartening to see this deception
continue, though I understand the competitive market. Don Walker do not
archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Kubassek
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Update on XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
Hi Daniel
I too was hoping for speeds around 115-120 realisticlly.
No wheel pants yet as i may be installing 6" wheels to smooth thing out a
little more for all the grass strips i fly into .
But i am finding as i get the feel of things a liitle better my landing on
grass are becoming a whole lot smoother and maybe the 5" wheels may be
allrite after all, time will tell..
At this time my climb was my main concern ,and down the road i may take
another degree or so out of the pitch and along with the wheel pants i am
quite confident that 120 mph should be very attainable.
Rite now with the 02235 reving at 2550 1 have 110 mph.
Red line on the engine is 2800 so i have a little to play with.
Rite now with Max load 0f 1400 lbs i am off in approx 650 ft .
Landing roll with out accessive braking 850-900 ft
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Vandenberg" <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
To: <Zenith-List@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Update on XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
>
> Dave...
>
> Thank's for the update. Just curious on your cruise speeds...have you
added wheel pants/fairings yet? Is your prop pitch optimized for cruise or
for climb? I believe Zenith quotes 75% cruise speeds for the O-235 XL at
138 mph...I would hope for real world speeds around 120 mph.
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/performance.html
>
> Dan
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
>
> For those of you enquiring
> An update on the flight testing of C-FDSF 601XL
> w/Lyc 0235.
> We now have a grand total of 6.5 hrs on tach.
> Flew 1.5 on sat am.
> I am begining to relax and starting to enjoy(Love) the experience
> I am not used to going so far in such a short time,,,,,,WOW
> Circuits and touring at stratford, woodstock and tillsonburg.
> Engine temps are now down in mid green range(180 deg.) now that we have a
few hrs
> on this 0 timed engine. she purrs like a kitten.with a 7gph fuel
consumption
> Climb rpm 2500 with 1000- 1200 fpm at 80 mph.
> with full fuel myself (210 lbs) and my 14 year old son (130 lbs).( i had
to ask
> him to finally stop saying "Dad ,this is So Awesome" at least on final
approach
> :
> ))...)
> cruise speed with the warp drive set at 10 deg. is indicating 110 mph
confirmed
> with gps. to be quite accurate.
> On Take off and landing, try to avoid steep climb or flare angle as i
found i
> was cutting some little grooves in the grass with my tie down ring at the
rear.
> Just dont be too agressive with the stick at this point. alow it rather to
build
> a little more speed and let it rather fly off v/s hauling it off as i was
doing.
> And on landing ,let your flare angle be a little less steep.
> This thing actually has a very nice glide and i am vitually after a couple
dozen
> ciruits virtually greasing it on every time.
> Not that i am any great pilot , it is just very nice handle and fly once
you get
> the find the sweet spots. I am like Tottally impressed!
> At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w
installing
> lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail at
this
> point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
> A note to those who are at the point of installing your aileron trim motor
........
> Add a peice of metal let say8-10" square between the motor and the
aileron.
> What is happening is when you have full down deflection the top skin is
showing
> a slight buckling upwards...
> I'm thinking a stiffner plate under there would eliminate that???
> Other than that, what can i say AWESOME :
> )))
> She flys and handles like a dream,just plain Beautifull.
> It was worth every minute of effort it took to acomplish this.(which at
this time
> is almost forgotten)
> P.S. My poor old champ is pouting in the back of the hanger now.
> I walked by her yesterday and she like totally ignored me and looked the
other
> way.
> So i fired her up and took her for a spin and gave her back her old spot
at the
> front of the hanger, and now all is well again,peace has been restored.
> Bless you Dudes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | XL - main gear attach bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Hi Listers. - specifically XL builders
I am trying to determine the grade of the main gear
attach bolts. From 6-G-3 and 6-B-11 it is not
apparent. All I have is that it is a 1/2 inch bolt
with 20 threads per inch. Also it has a hole drilled
in it for a cotter pin. Your suggestions would be
much appreciated. Thanks all
David
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the wings.
Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for inspection.
__________________________________
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: Update on XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The real pity to me is that the zodiac has so many other qualities that ZAC
don't mention. I too finished mine in 99 and now have just over 300 hours,
We strap our sleeping bags up UNDER the baggage deck and we go off on ten
day backpacking trips. We want an RV 7 but I just don't think we can get all
our gear in it!
I just love showing up at air shows and pulling endless quantities of stuff
out of our little plane.
Speed is one thing but the altitude performance is not there either. I think
the HDS just runs out of wing at gross weight on a hot day. Certainly at
9000ft density altiude the plane is flying well nose high just to maintain
altitude.
This presumably further cuts down the cruise speed.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Update on XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
ZAC speeds.
I love my HDS and the attention it gets. Taildraggers are great!! I
bought my kit in '93 after flying the prototype at the Tulsa fly-in in '92.
Nick and Sebastian were absolutely great in helping me complete my plane. I
just put three hundred hours on it yesterday. First flight June 1999.
I also spoke quite a while that day and flew with Randy Shlitter of
Rans Aircraft. Randy tried to be diplomatic but was cautioning me about the
speed claims of "other" kitplanes. I knew he was referring to Zenith.
The days I flew with Nick in the HDS we did 120 easily in the pattern
with no strain. And of course they instructed us to get static pressure
right out of the cabin in setting up the air speed.(We were actually doing
about 100 to 105).
Looking back now over the past ten years, I am certain that air speed is
the only thing ZAC has been consciously deceptive about. Claiming a cruise
of 140 for the prototype HDS wasn't fair to us. The 135 they lowered it to
is still out of reach for all but the rare bird. I am not planning on
building an XL, and I am a supporter of these designs, but it is
disheartening to see this deception continue, though I understand the
competitive market. Don Walker do not archive.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Update on XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 7/21/2003 7:57:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
dkubassek@golden.net writes:
>
> At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w
> installing lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in the tail
> at this point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at that.
>
Just a thought on tail weight. One of the Zenith trainers, CH 2000?, that was
at a Mexico open house had a very substantial tail skid. Aluminum bar, bent
to fit & bolted on.
Has any one looked at that? For both tail protection as well as tail weight?
Jerry,
CH 701SP, wings in work
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: XL - main gear attach bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
David:
Does it have an "x" on the head? If so, it's an AN 8.
George Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barth" <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL - main gear attach bolts
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Listers. - specifically XL builders
> I am trying to determine the grade of the main gear
> attach bolts. From 6-G-3 and 6-B-11 it is not
> apparent. All I have is that it is a 1/2 inch bolt
> with 20 threads per inch. Also it has a hole drilled
> in it for a cotter pin. Your suggestions would be
> much appreciated. Thanks all
> David
>
> =====
> David Barth
> 601 XL Plansbuilder
> Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the
wings.
> Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for
inspection.
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Update on XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
Probably a Great idea jerry!
A tail skid would definatley prevent any tail/rudder damage which could
quite conceivably happen if you where fully loaded and or rotated too
abruptly.
I had even thought of going to a local farm store TSC and picking up a
castor wheel of some kind and fastening it at the rear of the fuselage.
This should work as well.
dave. C-FDSF .XL testing stages :
)))
----- Original Message -----
From: <JERICKSON03E@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Update on XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/21/2003 7:57:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
> dkubassek@golden.net writes:
>
>
> >
> > At this point in order to deal with my nose slightly heavy problem (c/w
> > installing lyc. eng.) I will replace the 14 lbs of temporary weight in
the tail
> > at this point with a 20 lb. plate under the battery and leave it at
that.
> >
>
> Just a thought on tail weight. One of the Zenith trainers, CH 2000?, that
was
> at a Mexico open house had a very substantial tail skid. Aluminum bar,
bent
> to fit & bolted on.
>
> Has any one looked at that? For both tail protection as well as tail
weight?
>
> Jerry,
> CH 701SP, wings in work
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: XL - main gear attach bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
David
Would you not want to go with a Grade 8 bolt???
I would think that would be more than adequate
dave k
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barth" <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL - main gear attach bolts
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Listers. - specifically XL builders
> I am trying to determine the grade of the main gear
> attach bolts. From 6-G-3 and 6-B-11 it is not
> apparent. All I have is that it is a 1/2 inch bolt
> with 20 threads per inch. Also it has a hole drilled
> in it for a cotter pin. Your suggestions would be
> much appreciated. Thanks all
> David
>
> =====
> David Barth
> 601 XL Plansbuilder
> Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the
wings.
> Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for
inspection.
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Caithcart" <bcaithcart@hotmail.com>
Neil,
Will this mount fit the 601HD/HDS? I have been wondering for some time if
the XL uses the same engine mount as the HD/HDS.
Brian Caithcart
CH601HD/corvair
building from plans
>To use this mount you will have to obtain the 6B6-4 and 6B6-5 engine mount
>fittings for the O-235 mount from ZAC or grind out the existing bolts and
>weld in some AN6-23 bolts - messy but doable. This mount will also require
>a
>custom cowl.
>
>...neil
>
>Neil Hulin
>601XL/Corvair
>Forward Fuselage
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
> I`m intrested in the 640. & would love to build it if it was more inline.
> with what else is on the market. or offered more. Prpunching goes a very
> long way to swaying my mind...
>
> can you builders tell me what its like to measure all your holes...is it
> easy? hard....do you make alot of mistakes.
>
> I would like to build the 640. I`m in toronto only 60 miles from head
> office....but
>
> The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same amount of
> metal in both.
> But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be seen...
>
> I realy like the 640. But its a matter of money & skill......What i dont
> understand is why the 640 is so much money.....there is no prepunching....
> How does VAN`s make his kits so cheap.
>
Michael,
Van's has invested heavily in really good tooling and machinery on the cusp
of knowing he has a large buyer and repeat buyer base. Price comes down
quickly with quantity and the confidence expressed by that guarantees
success.
No, the principal problem with measuring holes is the use of a straight edge
prepunched to the pitch you want and checking against start point and
interval
of the crimps on the panels, ribs etc. Never drill freehand. Always know
where
your centerlines are get that interval measured from the part beneath on the
strip template
and verify before you drill the ink marks placed thru your template. Then
nearly all the
holes will be in a straight line and at the same spacing on the panels.
There's no reason to make mistakes, tho I've drilled 3 or 4 that restarted
my rudder
early on by being in a hurry to drill freehand. When you screw it up, just
do it over.
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
On Mon Jul 21 at 1:29 PM, Brian Caithcart (bcaithcart@hotmail.com) wrote:
Will this mount fit the 601HD/HDS? I have been wondering for some time if
the XL uses the same engine mount as the HD/HDS.
Brian,
I don't have the dimensions of the HD firewall to compare to the XL. Perhaps
we can compare specs for the engine mount fittings offline and report our
findings back to the list. That is, of course, unless someone out there has
already looked into this issue. Anyone?
I'll look at my diagrams and send you the XL dimensions in the next day or
so.
...neil
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | 601/Corvair Engine Mount - Show of hands please |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Listers,
I've been working to help William Wynne develop the Corvair engine mount for
the 601XL. I'll be meeting up with William next week at Oshkosh. Can I
please have expressions of interest in the Corvair engine mount?
Information that would be helpful:
601 Model (XL/HD/HDS)
Current build status
Expected completion date
Build engine mount from plans or purchase from William (Build/Buy)
Is the use of the ZAC O-235 cowl important to you? (We aren't even sure that
this will work yet but at least one builder already has this cowl and has
expressed interest in using it with the Corvair.)
If we can source a custom cowl, would you prefer to buy something other than
the ZAC O-235 cowl?
Would you be prepared to make you own cowl?
Comments on induction system, carb and cabin heat?
Anything else that you consider important?
Anything that you'd like me to talk to WW about and report back to the list?
You can reply directly to me if you like. I'll put some statistics out after
OSH.
Thanks. Keep building. One day you will fly.
...neil
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: XL - main gear attach bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
George Swinford wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
> David:
>
> Does it have an "x" on the head? If so, it's an AN 8.
>
> George
The X can depict an AN bolt, but I thought most AN bolts were closer to
grade 5. Grade 8 is stronger, but they're a little brittle, won't stand
much bending before it snaps.
I wouldn't substitute one for the other unless the manufacturer OK's it.
Rick P.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Wing Tank Transfer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
Dave said "Also, I was planning on running lines from the wing locker tanks
to the
header tank, using a Facet pump on each wing tank. The lines were going to
connect to the 2 fittings at the bottom of the header. Will this work, or
should the wing tank fuel lines be connected to the fittings at the top of
the header tank?
The arrangement noted by Dave has worked fine for us. The only problem is
that there is no room to pump the fuel into the top of the header tank because
it is snug up against the top forward skin. Our wing fuel is pumped into the
header tank at about the 13 gallon level on the 15 gallon tank. We did burn
out one wing transfer (facet) pump when we tryed to go above the 13 gallon
level. Since limiting transfer up to about the 13 gallon level we have not had
a problem.
Stan
601HDS
125 hours
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Corvair Engine Mount at OSH |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
Brian Caithcart wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Caithcart" <bcaithcart@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Neil,
>
> Will this mount fit the 601HD/HDS? I have been wondering for some time if
> the XL uses the same engine mount as the HD/HDS.
I just ordered my Jabiru mount from ZAC. I was originally going to build
it myself so I had Nicholas send me the drawings. He told me that ,Yes,
the mounts are the same for an XL and an HD.
The dimensions on the XL mount drawing (6-JE-1) are 856 mm between the
top holes, 610 mm between the bottom holes, and 460 mm between the tops
and bottoms. Same as the dimensions on the HD firewall drawing.
Rick P.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Stan,
I guess there are mre powerful pumps than the Facet, which could handle
pumping into the base of the header tank beyond the 13 gallon max. One
question...do you have check valves in your lines from the wing tanks, or is
the check valve incorporated into the Facet pump sufficient to stop reverse
fuel flow back to the wing tanks?
Did you consider plumbing the wing tanks directly into the gascolator
through a ful selector, and why did yu chose not to do that?
Thanks...Dave
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
List:
I do not support the statement quoted below:
"Looking back now over the past ten years, I am certain that air speed is the
only thing ZAC has been consciously deceptive about. Claiming a cruise of 140
for the prototype HDS wasn't fair to us. The 135 they lowered it to is still
out of reach for all but the rare bird."
Ours gets the 135 at the minimum and has gotten up to 140 mph (GPS confirmed)
at 7,500'. A change of the original Prince prop to a Sensenich increased
the speed significantly and wheel pants added another 5 mph. Will be
interested to see what the sea level speeds will be as even the Prince prop did
great
coming out of OSH last year.
Quality of build, empty weight, engine, altitude and temp are all critical
factors in determining the cruise speed. Think we should consider a flyoff at
the Open House Hangar day this year at Mexico to see how many 'rare birds'
there are.
Stan
601 HDS/Jabiru 3300/Sensenich 64/49
125 hours
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "michael michael" <top_gun_toronto@hotmail.com>
I would like to corespond with anyone doing a scratch build of the zenair
kits
I`m very intrested in the 640.
If you do scratch build how much do you save off kit price.?
Are the plans scratch build friendly....do you have to scale up rib outlines
or do you get them 1:1 scale & transfer to a forming block?
any other tidbits of info is welcome.
Michael in toronto.
>From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:23:04 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>
> > I`m intrested in the 640. & would love to build it if it was more
>inline.
> > with what else is on the market. or offered more. Prpunching goes a very
> > long way to swaying my mind...
> >
> > can you builders tell me what its like to measure all your holes...is it
> > easy? hard....do you make alot of mistakes.
> >
> > I would like to build the 640. I`m in toronto only 60 miles from head
> > office....but
> >
> > The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same amount
>of
> > metal in both.
> > But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be seen...
> >
> > I realy like the 640. But its a matter of money & skill......What i dont
> > understand is why the 640 is so much money.....there is no
>prepunching....
> > How does VAN`s make his kits so cheap.
> >
>Michael,
>Van's has invested heavily in really good tooling and machinery on the cusp
>of knowing he has a large buyer and repeat buyer base. Price comes down
>quickly with quantity and the confidence expressed by that guarantees
>success.
>
>No, the principal problem with measuring holes is the use of a straight
>edge
>prepunched to the pitch you want and checking against start point and
>interval
>of the crimps on the panels, ribs etc. Never drill freehand. Always know
>where
>your centerlines are get that interval measured from the part beneath on
>the
>strip template
>and verify before you drill the ink marks placed thru your template. Then
>nearly all the
>holes will be in a straight line and at the same spacing on the panels.
>
>There's no reason to make mistakes, tho I've drilled 3 or 4 that restarted
>my rudder
>early on by being in a hurry to drill freehand. When you screw it up, just
>do it over.
>
>Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Wing Tank Transfer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
Dave:
Your question: do you have check valves in your lines from the wing tanks, or
is
the check valve incorporated into the Facet pump sufficient to stop reverse
fuel flow back to the wing tanks?
Answer: We did have backflow when we mounted the Facet pump horizontally so
we installed a separate check valve. Then-we read the instructions and
mounted it at a high angle so the check valve would work. I believe(?) we removed
the separate check valve after installing the Facet pump correctly.
Your question: Did you consider plumbing the wing tanks directly into the
gascolator
through a fuel selector, and why did you chose not to do that?
Answer: No, we did not. My building partner and I felt that having the fuel
coming from a tank above the carburetor was the safest way to insure that
fuel got to its intended destination.
Stan
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
It is interesting how there seems to be a wide variation. I can tell you
that there "appears to be" no correlation between quality of build and
cruise speed. I spent a long time building mine (950 hours) and I know its
straight and accurate.
I know of others where the builder has told me of sighnificant errors and
they are faster than my 110mph cruise.
My wheelpants had a net effect of zero mph increase.
I do know with my Subaru the cowling fit is terrible because it was designed
for the Rotax...of course I still paid the same price!
With your Jab you have no radiator dangling under the fuse.
Every RV that I hear of (and I know this is only an impression) performs "as
advertised" or better. Don's point is really about this variation but the
majority of the "out of the crate" with the recommended prop and engined
ZACs are MUCH slower than claimed.
As I said though, this does not make it a bad airplane, far from it.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Schallgren@aol.com [mailto:Schallgren@aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Factory Claimed Speed of 601 HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
List:
I do not support the statement quoted below:
"Looking back now over the past ten years, I am certain that air speed is
the
only thing ZAC has been consciously deceptive about. Claiming a cruise of
140
for the prototype HDS wasn't fair to us. The 135 they lowered it to is still
out of reach for all but the rare bird."
Ours gets the 135 at the minimum and has gotten up to 140 mph (GPS
confirmed)
at 7,500'. A change of the original Prince prop to a Sensenich increased
the speed significantly and wheel pants added another 5 mph. Will be
interested to see what the sea level speeds will be as even the Prince prop
did great
coming out of OSH last year.
Quality of build, empty weight, engine, altitude and temp are all critical
factors in determining the cruise speed. Think we should consider a flyoff
at
the Open House Hangar day this year at Mexico to see how many 'rare birds'
there are.
Stan
601 HDS/Jabiru 3300/Sensenich 64/49
125 hours
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tank Transfer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Stan,
I guess it doesn't really matter where the wing tank fuel is pumped. If that
tank's Facet pump fails, no fuel will end up in the carbs, since there is no
way to pump fuel to either the header tank or the gascolator.
Dave
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | RVbuilder.....but i like the 640 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif@duck.org>
I am scratch building the CH-640.
Actually I haven't started yet, but I have purchased the plans.
I can't say yet if the plans are "scratch build friendly". I have been
reviewing them in preparation for building the rudder. I did have a few
questions which were very promptly answered by Mathieu Heintz. The rib
outlines are drawn in a much smaller scale than 1:1. I found it easy to
scale them up, though, using TurboCad.
While my price list is just an estimate, the parts for the rudder should
cost just about half of the rudder starter kit offered by Zenair.
Matthew Mucker is also building a 640. But more importantly he has a
builder list which will give you an idea of other builders out there.
His website is http://www.matthewmucker.com
Hope this meager info helps.
Thanks,
Clif
CH640-0039
http://homebuilt.duck.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of michael
michael
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "michael michael"
--> <top_gun_toronto@hotmail.com>
I would like to corespond with anyone doing a scratch build of the
zenair
kits
I`m very intrested in the 640.
If you do scratch build how much do you save off kit price.? Are the
plans scratch build friendly....do you have to scale up rib outlines
or do you get them 1:1 scale & transfer to a forming block?
any other tidbits of info is welcome.
Michael in toronto.
>From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RVbuilder.....but i like the 640
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:23:04 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
>--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>
> > I`m intrested in the 640. & would love to build it if it was more
>inline.
> > with what else is on the market. or offered more. Prpunching goes a
> > very long way to swaying my mind...
> >
> > can you builders tell me what its like to measure all your
> > holes...is it easy? hard....do you make alot of mistakes.
> >
> > I would like to build the 640. I`m in toronto only 60 miles from
> > head office....but
> >
> > The RV-7 & 640 weight almost the same. meaning there is the same
> > amount
>of
> > metal in both.
> > But the 640 is about $7000.00 more & not a prepunched hole to be
> > seen...
> >
> > I realy like the 640. But its a matter of money & skill......What i
> > dont understand is why the 640 is so much money.....there is no
>prepunching....
> > How does VAN`s make his kits so cheap.
> >
>Michael,
>Van's has invested heavily in really good tooling and machinery on the
>cusp of knowing he has a large buyer and repeat buyer base. Price
>comes down quickly with quantity and the confidence expressed by that
>guarantees success.
>
>No, the principal problem with measuring holes is the use of a straight
>edge
>prepunched to the pitch you want and checking against start point and
>interval
>of the crimps on the panels, ribs etc. Never drill freehand. Always
know
>where
>your centerlines are get that interval measured from the part beneath
on
>the
>strip template
>and verify before you drill the ink marks placed thru your template.
Then
>nearly all the
>holes will be in a straight line and at the same spacing on the panels.
>
>There's no reason to make mistakes, tho I've drilled 3 or 4 that
>restarted my rudder early on by being in a hurry to drill freehand.
>When you screw it up, just do it over.
>
>Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
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Message 29
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| Subject: | XL - main gear attach bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
Gear attachment is no place to start finding hardware that's "close enough"
or "should be better than specified" The correct aircraft hardware just is
not that expensive in the grand scheme of things. You just order what you
need from spruce or many other places and it comes with or without the holes
on the correct or both ends and in the correct grip length for the material
being fastened. Not to mention that it's what the designer specified!
Dave
When the wind lets up I'm on my first flight!
> I am trying to determine the grade of the main gear
> attach bolts. From 6-G-3 and 6-B-11 it is not
> apparent. All I have is that it is a 1/2 inch bolt
> with 20 threads per inch. Also it has a hole drilled
> in it for a cotter pin.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 601/Corvair Engine Mount - Show of hands please |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
601 Model: XL
Current build status: Tail Done, Working on Wings, Engine
Expected completion date: When I get done.
Build engine mount from plans or purchase from William (Build/Buy):
Probably Purchase
Is the use of the ZAC O-235 cowl important to you?: I'll probably build my
own cowl.
If we can source a custom cowl, would you prefer to buy something other than
the ZAC O-235 cowl: Yes, if the price is right.
Would you be prepared to make you own cowl? YES.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
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