Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:09 AM - Re: Dual radiators... (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com)
2. 03:53 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/30/03 (gpjann@juno.com)
3. 03:53 PM - Re: (Grant Corriveau)
4. 03:57 PM - Re: Dual radiators... (Grant Corriveau)
5. 04:10 PM - (gpjann@juno.com)
6. 04:24 PM - Re: Dual radiators... (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com)
7. 05:08 PM - Electric diagram. (Gary Gower)
8. 05:26 PM - Re: A poem (Larry McFarland)
9. 05:30 PM - Re: Electric diagram. (Carlos Sa)
10. 06:27 PM - Re: A poem (wizard-24@juno.com)
11. 07:55 PM - Re: Electric diagram. (Hal Rozema)
12. 09:57 PM - Re: Re: (Ray Montagne)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dual radiators...
I'm thinking this through but on balance I think you will want a scoop. You
will lose lift because the air will short cicuit the wing lift ing surfaces
somewhat. Should not be a huge effect though.
I think you will find that a lot of the cooling energy is due to the total
pressure component of the forward flowing air.
I havent got time to do the clacs right now but I think your going to have
to add a little pressure recovery scoop in any case, either that or the rads
will have to be bigger. We can do some calcs if you get some engineering
radiator info.
Of course if you have to have scoops then there is not much point in putting
the rad in the wing unless there are advantages in running your plumbing.
Anyway, give me an email when your serious...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc@ca.inter.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dual radiators...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
The heat from the chin-mounted rad was causing damage to my Hall EFfect
sensors -- there seems to be a degradation to the epoxy used to hold them in
place, and even some physical damage as if there has been a loss of 'gap' at
some point and the sensor has been touched by the magnet. This along with
the general effects of excessive heat under the cowl (fuel vaporization
possibilities; wear and tear on other components...) has convinced me to go
ahead and try my radiator idea.
Even better than 'under' the wing, I'm looking at INSIDE the wing. The
HD/HDS wings have that natural 'bay' just outboard of the gear legs where
the wing attach brakets are accessible. There is plenty of room in here for
a 6 or 8" by 18 or 20" radiator. One on each side will give me more than
the manufacturer's recommeded 200 sq. inches. A NACA duct on the bottom of
the wing, and a venting surface on top - in the gap cover that we fabricate
for this area - located in the zone of max. lift should produce a positive
lifting of air through the radiator. The good thing is that at high angles
of attack with max. wing lift, there will also be maximum airflow through
the radiator, which seems ideal. (So hopefully no scoops at all will be
required).
While on the ground the engine isn't producing maximum heat, but the key
factor may be if there is still enough rising of air through the rad to keep
things cool during long taxi times, etc...
Thanks for the encouragement - I'll keep you posted - but you'll have to
stay tuned - I'm a slow worker ;-)
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> Grant,
>
> In our next project, the 601 XL, we are planning to use the Jab 3000
> so no water cooling instalation. But in your position I will go
> towards one radiator in each wing root, like the Spitfire. I read
> that is more efective in cooling while taxing, also they look very
> cool in that position...
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/30/03 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: gpjann@juno.com
Please post..
Greg Jannakos
Zodiac 601HDS SN 4211, Plans buildling
770-277-1637
gpjann@juno.com
Am selling my project because of financial reasons.
The airframe is 99.9% complete, finishing up on mounting canopy.
Remaining work to be complete is FWF and instruments, and several small
things such as wing/fuse fairing.
All controls, header tank, elevator and aileron trims, wing lockers,
pitot & static tubes, Matco tires, wheels and brakes, etc, are installed.
Price $8600
Project can be seen at Lawrenceville, Ga airport (LZU).
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Frank, thanks very much... I'll keep you posted. There is one 'school of
thought' that says "these new sensors use high temp epoxy - problem solved.
Your current radiator works. It's KISS. Don't mess with it."
The other says: "excessive heat in the engine room is always a problem for
many reasons sooner or later. It's not a bad idea -- go for it..."
I'll certainly be in touch as soon as I've committed to this new approach.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> I'm thinking this through but on balance I think you will want a scoop. You
> will lose lift because the air will short cicuit the wing lift ing surfaces
> somewhat. Should not be a huge effect though.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dual radiators... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Definitely any venting of air from bottom to top of the wing will cause loss
of lift - therefor more angle of attack on the wing to compensate - therefor
increased iduced drag offsetting any parasite drag gains made. ... So,
ideally if there's lots of airflow in flight, the escape to the top surface
could be minimized.... Actally I'm still researching the Spitfire and ME109
and other designs... I think they may have exhausted the air under the
trailing edge - used adjustable exhaust or inlet scoop controls -- but they
were working with a lot more heat and a lot greater range of airspeeds/
drag/ etc....
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> From: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
> Cool idea, but how would that affect lift?
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: gpjann@juno.com
Greg Jannakos
Zodiac 601HDS SN 4211, Plans building
For more information and pictures of my project for sale look for my ad
on www.barnstormers2000.com
under Experimental category....
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dual radiators...
They did exhaust to the trailing edge...I don't know why the Americans
didn't simply plaugerise the design when they stole the engine for the P51
to make "the greatest fighter of WWII"....:)
...I actually heard a teenage boy point to the P51 and make comparison to
the Spit and say "of course that one was better than that one"...Of course
dear boy but how much of it was your country's design?....:)
Anyway, yeah the HDS is a bit short of wing in any case (9500ft desity alt
and it starts to struggle a little) so I'm not sure you want to lose too
much lift
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Corriveau [mailto:grantc@ca.inter.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dual radiators...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Definitely any venting of air from bottom to top of the wing will cause loss
of lift - therefor more angle of attack on the wing to compensate - therefor
increased iduced drag offsetting any parasite drag gains made. ... So,
ideally if there's lots of airflow in flight, the escape to the top surface
could be minimized.... Actally I'm still researching the Spitfire and ME109
and other designs... I think they may have exhausted the air under the
trailing edge - used adjustable exhaust or inlet scoop controls -- but they
were working with a lot more heat and a lot greater range of airspeeds/
drag/ etc....
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> From: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
> Cool idea, but how would that affect lift?
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Electric diagram. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I am beguining tonight the electric cables and hoses for the engine and
instruments. Is there a basic diagram for the 701 with 912 and the
basic instruments where we can start?
I had worked from the diagram of each instrument an make my drawings
from there, mostly very basic ultralight type.
This one I want to make it more professional looking (and working of
course).
I searched the list and found nothing ???
Saludos
Gary Gower
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Scott and Mark,
Well done,
I made it to Oshkosh, to see the planes there
But saw all that I wanted the first day where,
I shook Chris's hand and spoke with Nick,
And picked up more T-shirts from ZAC so quick
We walked the whole flight line just once to be sure
To see any 601s that might be,,,,,, but none were
Someone said that one did, but its muffler leaked heat
That cut a bungee in two and it dipped its nose to its feet.
Well we did in a day what some take three,
but it was worth it to us just to come and see
what new stuff was there and there was,
but not much that I needed to further my cause.
So home again here, to the solace I seek, and
Putting wires in the bird to finish the week.
Go Oshkosh! Great fun, All things to all people, but is it
like Florida, just a nice place for a short summer visit.
Larry McFarland - 601hds www.macsmachine.com
>
> Very Good Scott.
> I am also off to Oshkosh,
> Oh yes I am,
> For at the airshow I will see no spam.
> Dinner with Chris
> I can never miss.
> See you soon
> Vroom Vrrrooommmm Vvvrrroommm.
>
> Sorry couldn't resist
> Mark Townsend
> 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo
> Alma, Ontario
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Here I sit all sad and downtrodden
> Wishing I was there, over in Wisconsin
> Checking my email- nothing but SPAM
> My buddies are at Oshkosh, how sad I AM!
> No Emails to see, I surf over to Ebay
> And what do I find, what a surprise I say!
> Someone has given up a dream and lots of fun,
> Selling a partial kit of a CH701!
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Electric diagram. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hi, Gary,
you might want to get the "AeroElectric Connection", from Bob Nuckolls (visit
HTTP://www.aeroelectric.com).
Also, subscribing to the aero electric list (Matronics) is a good idea.
Carlos
> I am beguining tonight the electric cables and hoses for the engine and
> instruments. Is there a basic diagram for the 701 with 912 and the
> basic instruments where we can start?
>
> This one I want to make it more professional looking (and working of
> course).
> Gary Gower
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
For those that like to search
without reading the jive,
How about we include
"do not archive".
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electric diagram. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Every builder should have the TONY BINGELUS book SPORTPLANE CONSTRUCTION
TECHNIQUES available from the EAA website, or preferably get all three
Hal
N701PF theplanefolks.net, Phoenix
Gary Gower wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> I am beguining tonight the electric cables and hoses for the engine and
> instruments. Is there a basic diagram for the 701 with 912 and the
> basic instruments where we can start?
>
> I had worked from the diagram of each instrument an make my drawings
> from there, mostly very basic ultralight type.
>
> This one I want to make it more professional looking (and working of
> course).
>
> I searched the list and found nothing ???
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: <No Subject Line Provided> |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
It would be really grand (and much appreciated) if y'all would include a
subject line on these threads. This makes it much easier for those of us
who hang on to the note worthy messages and organize them into folders so
that we can easily consult them when we reach certain stages of
construction.
Thanks folks!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Under Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Under Construction
===========================================================================
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