Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 AM - Re: Instrument panel (Dave Kubassek)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Instrument panel (CBRxxDRV@aol.com)
3. 05:00 AM - Re: Zenith "Open Hanger Day" (Cleone Markwell)
4. 05:42 AM - Re: High Altitude Performance (caspainhower@aep.com)
5. 06:37 AM - Open Hangar Day (john kunkle)
6. 06:58 AM - Re: Zenith "Open Hanger Day" (Michael Stempf)
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Instrument panel (Gary Gower)
8. 10:25 AM - Re: NPT fittings ()
9. 10:42 AM - 601 Nut Plates? (Gig)
10. 11:20 AM - Re: 601 Nut Plates? (CLOJAN@aol.com)
11. 12:23 PM - Re: 601 Nut Plates? (Michel Therrien)
12. 12:25 PM - Re: Instrument panel (Michel Therrien)
13. 01:38 PM - amphibious floats and 701 ()
14. 01:48 PM - Re: 601 Nut Plates? (royt.or@netzero.com)
15. 02:02 PM - Re: Zenith "Open Hanger Day" (Beckman, Rick)
16. 02:19 PM - My experience last Open Hangar Day: encouragement to attend this year (Steve Danielson)
17. 03:12 PM - Re: Zenith "Open Hanger Day" (Gary Liming)
18. 03:33 PM - Re: Zenith "Open Hanger Day" (Rico Voss)
19. 05:14 PM - Lube nutplates? (Jeff Small)
20. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: 601 Nut Plates? (Rick Pitcher)
21. 06:10 PM - spinning rivnuts (CLOJAN@aol.com)
22. 06:12 PM - Re: Lube nutplates? (WAYNE BEATTIE)
23. 06:29 PM - Re: Lube nutplates? (Ed)
24. 07:52 PM - Zenith "Open Hanger Day" (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
25. 08:06 PM - Nutplates for non-structural applications (George Swinford)
26. 10:12 PM - Re: Zenith "Open Hanger Day" (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
Hole Saw worked wonderfull
dave kubassek
C-FDSF XL. 0235
7.4 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument panel
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
<rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> I am working on the instrument panel, among other things. Does anyone know
the best way to cut the instrument holes in the aluminum panel? Will a
regular hole saw cut aluminum? I want to make the cuts as smooth as
possible.
>
> On another note, I just ordered a 912S, so now I'm committed to finishing
the project.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
> 601HD/912S 90% completed
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com
In a message dated 8/5/03 7:44:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rockinrimranch@earthlink.net writes:
> I am working on the instrument panel, among other things. Does anyone know
> the best way to cut the instrument holes in the aluminum panel? Will a
> regular hole saw cut aluminum? I want to make the cuts as smooth as possible.
>
> On another note, I just ordered a 912S, so now I'm committed to finishing
> the project.
>
> Thanks,
>
I just cut out a new panel with hole saws, I backed the alum up
with wood and cut away. When it was done I smoothed things out
with a file. I took some scrap alum and cut a few holes to be sure
I would not need to make another panel. If you really wanted to
get into this you could use the plans to make a plywood plug
that would fit the underside of the panel. The lip of the panel would
hold the wood and keep the hole saw in place.
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html">My Home Page
http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith "Open Hanger Day" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell <cleone@rr1.net>
I plan to fly my Zodiac to Mexico on the 23rd. Cleone Markwell, Casey,
Illinois. See you there. Hey where were the Zodiacs at Oshkosh? I was
there 7 days and never saw one. (I flew with a Navion friend)
At 10:29 PM 8/5/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
>
>Who's going to attend Zenith's Annual Open Hanger Day on Saturday the 23rd?
>I'll start the list with three that I know of so far......
>
>Jeff Small...... Coming all the way from Pennsylvania !
>
>Stan Schallgren
>
>and me, Fred Hulen
>
>Come on guys, lets make a good showing for the folks at Zenith. Sebastian
>suggested that we could us the opportunity of having our aircraft together
>to take airborne pictures plane to plane, etc.
>
>Sign on the list and sent it back.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: High Altitude Performance |
08/06/2003 08:41:36 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>I would suggest that power may have very little to do with it. I believe
>Chris's original CH600 used a VW engine (~60hp?) but had the same wing as
the
>CH601UL/HD.
Prop configuration and wing design will certainly affect high altitude
performance, but the bottom line is when you run out of power you run out
of altitude. Any given airframe will be limited by the amount of power
available. That's why the high fliers have tubines or turbo-charged
engines.
Craig S.
601 XL
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: john kunkle <luscombe68017@yahoo.com>
I will be there. John Kunkle - Lincoln NE. I built
1/2 of a Van's RV6, so I know aluminum construction
but want to fly off of my property, so am most
interested in a 701. (I have 600 feet.) Hope to get a
short demo in someone's 701 with a 582, as this is the
route I am looking to go. If it looks like the 701
fits my needs, I will pick up plans at the Open Hangar
day. Still haven't decided scratch or kit. I have a
mill, lathe, horizontal bandsaw, TIG welder, vert.
bandsaw, belt sanders, all of the riveting tools from
my RV, everything except the brake, so I could go
either way. I will be interested in talking with the
701 builders there.
Thanks,
John
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Zenith "Open Hanger Day" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Stempf" <mstempf@earthlink.net>
Jeff,
I plan on being there! Its a lot closer for me than you (I am in St.
Louis).
See you there,
Michael Stempf
601XL - on the wings
N4XL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred or
Sandy Hulen
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith "Open Hanger Day"
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen"
<hulens61@birch.net>
Who's going to attend Zenith's Annual Open Hanger Day on Saturday the
23rd?
I'll start the list with three that I know of so far......
Jeff Small...... Coming all the way from Pennsylvania !
Stan Schallgren
and me, Fred Hulen
Come on guys, lets make a good showing for the folks at Zenith.
Sebastian suggested that we could us the opportunity of having our
aircraft together to take airborne pictures plane to plane, etc.
Sign on the list and sent it back.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
--- Dave Pepper <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
> <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> I can do that!
>
> Dave
>
What? ;
)
Do not archive
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: NPT fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "" <rbauer@intergate.com>
You can always grind a few threads off of the tapered tap. This will allow the
larger pitch diameter to cut into the gascolator. I've done this & it works
well since the hole is already tapped, you don't need the lead threads
anymore... unless you start tapping another hole from scratch. The fuel pump
assembly manifold ZAC sells is the same way but with 1/8 NPT.
Rich
Quoting Dave Austin <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
>
> I've just received elbow and straight fittings and gascolator from Aircraft
> Spruce, and find that the 1/4 NPT male fittings won't screw into the female
> NPT 1/4 inlet or outlet of the gascolator by any more than 1 to 2 threads.
> If I run a 1/4 NPT tap into the gascolator it goes in until it bottoms,
> suggesting the female part is OK. Seems like the male threads are cut too
> large.
> Anyone else found this? Any suggestions?
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig <wr.giacona@cox-internet.com>
Ok.. I feel kind of stupid on this one but I am stumped.
I'm working on the wing and I am installing one of the access ports on
the bottom of the wing. My question is, How do you use this little black
nut plates?
Gig Giacona PP ASEL RH
N601WR 601XL
peoamerica.net/N601WR
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Nut Plates? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
In a message dated 8/6/03 1:42:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wr.giacona@cox-internet.com writes:
> My question is, How do you use this little black
> nut plates?
I found that rivnuts are much easier to use. They are available from aircraft
spurce.
Jack Russell
Clovis Ca
XL- JABIRU -FUSELAGE
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Nut Plates? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I don't know what size of nutplates you're working
with, but let's say for this discussion that it is a
6-32 nutplate.
What I do is I drill the aluminum to 9/64 (match drill
like you do for the rest). Then, if I have only one
or a few nutplates to install, skip the next step.
I modify a nutplate to act as a jig. Very useful when
you have many to install. To do this, tap the threads
with a normal tap (a 6-32 for instance) so it's easy
to screw a ... screw by hand.
Install the nutplate on the skin (or whatever the
nutplates mount onto) but on the reverse side. Insert
the screw so the nutplates does not move. Drill the
two holes with #40 drill bit. Remove the nutplate and
deburr holes.
Then, re-install and attach the nutplate with 3/32
rivets. I used soft solid rivets and pop rivets on my
plane for this purpose.
If installing countersunk rivets, dimple the sheet
metal prior to installation.
That's it!
Michel
--- Gig <wr.giacona@cox-internet.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig
> <wr.giacona@cox-internet.com>
>
> Ok.. I feel kind of stupid on this one but I am
> stumped.
>
> I'm working on the wing and I am installing one of
> the access ports on
> the bottom of the wing. My question is, How do you
> use this little black
> nut plates?
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Good point! It's nice to remove the non-pertinent
stuff from original messages when responding, but
don't remove everything! Keep just enough to put us
in context.
It happens very often that I read messages that
provides an interesting answer to something that I
don't know what it refers to.
do not archive
> --- Dave Pepper <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
> > I can do that!
> What? ;
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | amphibious floats and 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
Can anyone advize me if the 80 hp 912 is sufficient for amphibious floats or should
I get the 912s which means changing my engine mount due to the new heavy
duty starter. Thanks
John Birgiolas
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Nut Plates? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com
My technical counselor taught me that after nut plates are installed it is important
to lubricate the first screw/bolt inserted in the nut plate. I used grease
for a lubricant. I've heard other (RV) builders who rub the screw/bolt on a
candle for lubricant.
I've had negative experiences with rivnuts pulling out in non-aircraft applications
and personally would not use them in my airplane.
N601RT has ~100 nutplates installed with counter sunk soft rivets; used to secure
the forward top skin to enable "easy" access to the instrument panel.
Regards,
Roy
Ch601HDS, Rotax 912S, N601RT, 110 hours
Message 15
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| Subject: | Zenith "Open Hanger Day" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen"
<hulens61@birch.net>
Who's going to attend Zenith's Annual Open Hanger Day on Saturday the 23rd?
I'll start the list with three that I know of so far......
Jeff Small...... Coming all the way from Pennsylvania !
Stan Schallgren
and me, Fred Hulen
And me, Rick Beckman. Sure wish I was flying down, but the XL is
not quite
finished.
Message 16
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| Subject: | My experience last Open Hangar Day: encouragement to attend |
this year
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson" <steved@nc.rr.com>
do not archive
I thought I would give my experience with last year's open house. I flew in
with Brent Battles and it was a BLAST. The flight out there & back was
great, Brent was good company and I hope I was to him. We saw a lot of great
scenery and met some nice folks at the different airports we stopped at.
At the show, it was cool to meet Roger, Nick & Sebastian as well as the the
rest of the crew (Shirley, Linda, etc...) Everyone is very nice. I sat in
the XL, the 701 and the 801. The 801 is huge, and I got a demo ride with
Nick at the end of the day. When it came to land at the end, he headed into
the intersection of the two runways, to land diagonally. At the last minute
he changed (due to the wind) and landed on one of the regular runways. It
was a blast.
One of the highlights was when Jackie Johnson taxied in with his 601, and
then BACKED it up into the parking space with his reversable propellor. That
made a neat sound and everyone was watching. Cleone was there with his
silver 601, and Ken (apologies for missing these last names), a retired
gentleman in his 70's although he did not look it had a yellow czech built
701 that Roger flew demos in.
Also many builders were there, such as Fred Hulen (and many more but I can't
remember the names)
An EAA chapter on the field had a big cookout going that day, and the food
was good and it was very reasonably priced.
Southwest is cheap to fly into St Louis.
I had a great time and I think any builder would. If you are going, and are
a builder, you can call ahead and reserve a slot for a demo ride. Builders
get preference but the list fills up fast. If I wasn't on the brink of
changing jobs (booked up with interviews etc...) I would be heading that way
myself this year.
I took pictures last year, but dropped my digital camera right as I was
coming home and lost most of my photos, so if anyone goes, take lots of
pictures and post them somewhere (zac seems to not be posting updated open
house pictures)
so have a good time and send some reports!
Steve
Message 17
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| Subject: | Zenith "Open Hanger Day" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
At 03:59 PM 8/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Who's going to attend Zenith's Annual Open Hanger Day on Saturday the 23rd?
>I'll start the list with three that I know of so far......
>
>Jeff Small...... Coming all the way from Pennsylvania !
>
>Stan Schallgren
>
>and me, Fred Hulen
I plan on being there. I saw several folks at Osh who said they were
going, including 3 gentlemen I met at dorm breakfast from Kansas City.
Hey - please wear your name tags with full names so I can recognize the
names from this list with the faces!
Gary Liming
Message 18
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| Subject: | Zenith "Open Hanger Day" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
> I plan on being there. I saw several folks at Osh
> who said they were
> going, including 3 gentlemen I met at dorm breakfast
> from Kansas City.
Gary, that would be us:
Richard Voss -- XL-kit, tail & wings done.
Ray Huffman -- HD-plans, long term, but getting close
Ron Vaughn-- 701-plans, trying to get 7 lbs into a 6
lb. bag (cockpit cage).
... from KC area, all hoping to attend.
> Hey - please wear your name tags with full names so
> I can recognize the
> names from this list with the faces!
> Gary Liming
Excellent idea.
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 19
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Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:12:50 -0400
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>My technical counselor taught me that after nut plates are installed it is important
to lubricate the first >screw/bolt inserted in the nut plate. I used grease
for a lubricant. I've heard other (RV) builders who rub the >screw/bolt on
a candle for lubricant.
And my TC said never, never lube a nutplate...what does a feller do?
Looking through AC 43.13 I can find no info to clarify the subject.
Why would I lube a fastener that I wish to stay tight? Maybe use anti-seize?
Rivnuts are great for non-structural applications that won't be fastened/unfastened
often. Access panels would be a good use. A simple streamlined fairing
installation would be another. Think twice and ask your TC before using them
in areas requiring high tension strength.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Nut Plates? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
royt.or@netzero.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com
>
>
> My technical counselor taught me that after nut plates are installed it is important
to lubricate the first screw/bolt inserted in the nut plate. I used grease
for a lubricant. I've heard other (RV) builders who rub the screw/bolt on
a candle for lubricant.
>
> I've had negative experiences with rivnuts pulling out in non-aircraft applications
and personally would not use them in my airplane.
>
> N601RT has ~100 nutplates installed with counter sunk soft rivets; used to secure
the forward top skin to enable "easy" access to the instrument panel.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
>
> Ch601HDS, Rotax 912S, N601RT, 110 hours
I've never had a rivnut pull out but they'll spin quite easily,
epecially in thin materials. Then you've gotta drill the fasteners out
to replace them. A pain in the butt fer shure.
As for lube on nutplates, I wouldn't do it.
Rick P.
601 HD scratch build/ partial kit
87.3% done.... maybe 88%???
Message 21
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| Subject: | spinning rivnuts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
In a message dated 8/6/2003 5:41:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rick.pitcher@verizon.net writes:
> I've never had a rivnut pull out but they'll spin quite easily,
So is this the reason for the keyed rivnut? I thought about using these for
the skin over the instrument panel. Any idea on how to install these? Jack
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Lube nutplates? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: WAYNE BEATTIE <waynebeattie@optonline.net>
Another consideration with Rivnuts. If the rivnut becomes loose in its
mounting hole (Can easily happen with mounting them in thin material) you
will never get the screw out. It will spin forever and you may not have
access to remove it from the back. Can't tighten or loosen.
For that reason alone, I recommend nutplates. Less risk for a little more
work.
Wayne N601WB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Lube nutplates?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
>
> >My technical counselor taught me that after nut plates are installed it
is important to lubricate the first >screw/bolt inserted in the nut plate. I
used grease for a lubricant. I've heard other (RV) builders who rub the
>screw/bolt on a candle for lubricant.
>
> And my TC said never, never lube a nutplate...what does a feller do?
>
> Looking through AC 43.13 I can find no info to clarify the subject.
>
> Why would I lube a fastener that I wish to stay tight? Maybe use
anti-seize?
>
> Rivnuts are great for non-structural applications that won't be
fastened/unfastened often. Access panels would be a good use. A simple
streamlined fairing installation would be another. Think twice and ask your
TC before using them in areas requiring high tension strength.
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Lube nutplates? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed" <orion@silcom.com>
"Why would I lube a fastener that I wish to stay tight? "
From my experience there are two schools of thought on this...both have
merit, I guess you go with the one you like.
One thought is that if the fasteners are lubed (usually we put all the
fasteners in a plastic bag with a squirt of oil and shake), they don't
corrode and are easier to remove. More particularly used on panels with
heaps of screws that are removed often. If you have had to drill out half
the fasteners on a panel with 50 or so screws...you get the picture. Even
lubed I have never seen a panel secured this way come loose....the odd
fastener maybe, which is obvious and retightened or replaced.
The other thought is that you don't want the panel to come loose and it
isn't removed very frequently...then screw them in dry. Usually panels in
vented areas or exposed to moisture (flap and gear bays etc) will corrode
and some may need to be drilled out. The corrosion happens because the
threads are stripped of their protective coating by the act of screwing them
into the nut plate (deformed metal type) In this instance drilling out a few
isn't uncommon.
So..take your choice.
Fwiw.
Ed 601hds/lyc
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Zenith "Open Hanger Day" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
Who's going to attend Zenith's Annual Open Hanger Day on Saturday the 23rd?
++ Here's the list of names thus far. Let's make it a great "Coming Home"
for Zenith!
Jeff Small
Stan Schallgren
Fred Hulen
Cleone Maxwell
John Kunkle
Michael Stempf
Rick Beckman
Gary Liming
Ray Huffman
Richard Voss
Ron Vaughn
Please sign on.........
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Nutplates for non-structural applications |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
For small access covers and interior applications, Tinnerman anchor nuts and type
"B" (blunt point) sheet metal screws seem to work well. The Tinnerman nuts
attach with the same rivet spacing as regular anchor nuts.
George
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith "Open Hanger Day" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
Signing on for the ZAC open hanger day.
Jerry Erickson
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