Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:33 AM - 601 XL Aileron Rivet Spacing (Kafka, Jeff)
2. 08:42 AM - Dramatic decision (Garrou, Douglas)
3. 08:43 AM - fly info (Duane Evans)
4. 08:50 AM - Re: fly info (Gary Gower)
5. 09:32 AM - Re: Dramatic decision (Perry M. Chappano)
6. 11:01 AM - Re: fly info (Ron DeWees)
7. 03:31 PM - Rotary Engines? (Mike Fraley)
8. 03:31 PM - Re: Dramatic decision (Wayne Glasser)
9. 05:05 PM - 601 Stratus Push-pull Throttle (Larry McFarland)
10. 05:24 PM - Re: Dramatic decision (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com)
11. 07:16 PM - Re: Dramatic decision (Wayne McIntosh)
12. 07:42 PM - Dramatic decision-corrosion (CLOJAN@aol.com)
13. 07:55 PM - XL Axle to landing gear? (CLOJAN@aol.com)
14. 08:45 PM - Re: fly info (Duane Evans)
15. 09:58 PM - Re: XL Axle to landing gear? (Ed)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 601 XL Aileron Rivet Spacing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kafka, Jeff" <JKafka@trojanuv.com>
List,
Below is a message I received from Nick at ZAC clarifying the rivet spacing for
the 601XL ailerons. The information on the plans and in the manual do not work
out right.
Jeff Kafka
601XL Plans: Tail and Flaps ready for inspection.
Working on Ailerons.
-----Original Message-----
From: Zenith Aircraft Company [mailto:info@zenithair.com]
Subject: RE: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co.
> In the photos the rearmost rivet appears to be closer to the edge
> than to the adjacent rivet, thus within 35mm or so of the rear (is
> this an illusion?). I think the dimensions on the left middle
> diagram on drawing 6-W-2 (at least on the bottom) place it more like
> 65 mm from the rear. Am I missing something? The photo shows a
> total of 8 rivets (except the tip, which has 9) so something does
> not add up. Calculation for the bottom: 310mm - (14 + 15 + (6 x 36))
> = 310 - (29 + 216) = 310 - 245 = 65.
Rivets through the TOP FLANGE of the Aileron ribs 6W2-2 (total 8
RIVETS A4) BACKGROUND: The Ailerons ribs 6W2-2 used to be made with
the top and bottom flange cut back on an angle similar to the way the
Aileron Tip Rib 6W2-4, Ref top right diagram on drawing 6-W-2 (The right middle
diagram on drawing 6-W-2 still shows the cutback flange at the front of the aileron
ribs). With the cutback flange, the first rivet from the front was at
25mm from the front of the aileron skin.
FIRST RIVET: The way the ribs are now made, with the front corner of
the top and bottom flange at 90 degrees, the top rivet line through
the top flange of the Aileron skin 6W2-3 picks also goes through the
aileron rib. The first rivet is shown at 10mm from the front.
SECOND RIVET: 20mm back from the first rivet.
END HOLE: 10mm in from the end of the rib, this is approximately 25mm in from
the tailing edge of the aileron skin.
A4 PITCH 40: rivet spacing between the second rivet and the end hole.
Rivet spacing in the bottom flange of the Aileron Rib 6W2-2 (total of 8 rivets
in the bottom flange) FIRST RIVET: Approximately 15mm in front the front edge
of the bottom flange, for a rib made with a corner relief hole (square corner
on the bottom flange), the first hole is in approximately 15mm from the bottom
bend in the aileron skin.
SECOND RIVET : 25mm from the first rivet
END HOLE: Approximately 30mm from the trailing edge of the aileron skin.
A4 PITCH 40 between the second rivet and the end hole.
Aileron Tip Rib 6W2-4 (total 9 RIVET A4)
Note that the rivet line for the tip rib is longer than the rivet line through
the Aileron ribs. On our demo we located the first and second holes as for the
aileron ribs, the end hole is approximately 15mm from the trailing edge.
Thanks for pointing the discrepancy in the rivet spacing using the pitch 35 and
36 Ref drawing 6-W-2. This fall we will revise the drawing with the above number.
Nick Heintz
Zenith Aircraft Company
support@zenithair.com
http://www.zenithair.com
Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the advice/information
provided through our support is correct, Zenith Aircraft Company does not
accept any responsibility for errors or omissions. Any advice or information
that Zenith Aircraft Company gives you via any form of communication is not a
guarantee that it will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance
to you. Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or
damage as a result of our advice or information supplied.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Dramatic decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
We noticed at OSH that the RV quickbuild kit wasn't zinc chromated inside,
nor was the partially constructed 601 at the Zenith tent (even on the mating
surfaces). We have therefore boldly decided to forgo any additional
interior greening of our 801. Who knows, it might even save a pound or two.
And I have the feeling that we will be a mouldering in our graves (molding?
moldering?) before the 801's trustly T-6061 corrodes, zinc chromate or no.
I offer this observation largely to generate traditional list traffic in the
wake of "Fred's" departure. :)
Cheers
Doug Garrou
Project 801
www.garrou.com
p.s. Got to fly (really just "sit") right seat in the tri-motor at OSH and
it was a blast. With that big old thick wing, I think it is a spiritual
ancestor of the Heintz designs....
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Duane Evans" <duanee10@pacn.com>
Hi Ron W.
The franklin engine is rated 115 hp and 206 lbs dry with accessories about 230
lbs which is about the same as suburu. the wheel pants gave about 10 mph more
. yes the tail dragger is easy to handle if the wheel alignment is correct and
is faster then the trigear. the battery must be as far back in the tail as it
will go for the CG.
Duane Evans
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Thanks for your post Duane, Hope all the Flyers (ex-builders) will
continue in the list and post comments (good and not so good) about his
plane behavor and mantainance tips once in a while.
Also flying adventures with your airplanes and long cross crountry
flights are vital medicine for all of us still building...
Thanks a lot again
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- Duane Evans <duanee10@pacn.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Duane Evans" <duanee10@pacn.com>
>
>
> I have been off the list for about a year. and have recently come
> back. I made my first flight on october 3 2003 I have 601 HDS-TD
> with a PZL-Franklin 235 engine the first flight was uneventful except
> oil temp exceeded upper limit. after putting wheel pants on and
> fairing around the bungge box I get a top speed of 142mph . cruse of
> speed of 123 mph . climb with density altitude 3500-4000 ft. 1000
> -1200 fpm. I have a IVOPROP Magmun prop set for cruse. fuel burn is
> about 6gph . I did not fly in the winter so now only have 85 . hrs.
> After puttng a oil cooler in ,this has a really been trouble free
> airplane. I put XL canope on it. and getting sealed I should be ready
> to fly this winter.
>
> Duane Evans
> 601HDS-TD #3904 N6402X
> Deer Park, WA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Dramatic decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Perry M. Chappano" <polestar@prodigy.net>
Doug,
Good luck. I left two pieces of trusty T-6061 in my basement for 6 months.
One developed significant corrosion, the other did not. Hope you have the
lucky stuff.
P Chappano
NC32372 - 1940 Porterfield LC-65
N9961- Zodiac 601XL
"Garrou, Douglas" wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
>
> We noticed at OSH that the RV quickbuild kit wasn't zinc chromated inside,
> nor was the partially constructed 601 at the Zenith tent (even on the mating
> surfaces). We have therefore boldly decided to forgo any additional
> interior greening of our 801. Who knows, it might even save a pound or two.
> And I have the feeling that we will be a mouldering in our graves (molding?
> moldering?) before the 801's trustly T-6061 corrodes, zinc chromate or no.
>
> I offer this observation largely to generate traditional list traffic in the
> wake of "Fred's" departure. :)
>
> Cheers
> Doug Garrou
> Project 801
> www.garrou.com
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Duane,
Thanks so much for the information. I hope my CG will fall in line without
moving my battery. I just mounted it on the firewall. I think the Jabiru
will come out under 200#. Hope that is enough to keep CG ok with present
battery location.
You must have cut your wheelpants down a bit. Most don't see much
improvement, but note that they are too wide as they come. I had planned on
taking a slice out of the middle to slim them a bit. I hope my wheels are
aligned ok. I have them looking parallel to the CL of the plane. I can
look thru the hollow axle of one wheel at the center of the opposite wheel.
Is there any toe-in or toe-out required? Did you have a lot of TD
experience before the HDS? Was it hard to get insurance (if you have it)?
I am concerned about getting checked out as I don't even know where there is
another 601HDS TD to sit in, much less fly in.
Thanks for ideas and suggestions.
Ron
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike Fraley" <mike@theautoexpo.com>
Hi! Anyone ever hear of a Rotary (Wankel) type engine / conversion that produces
around 100hp that might work in a 701? I see plenty in the 150-200 range,
and some around 70hp, but not 100. Not building yet.... just thinking & researching....
Thanks,
Mike Fraley
mike@theautoexpo.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Dramatic decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Wayne Glasser <ku-tec@bigpond.net.au>
Doug
I would like to offer a different view due to my personal experience.
I have had nothing but problems with the 6061 skins on my 601XL corroding
and would not even dream about leaving the chromate off expecially between
mating surfaces. What I get appears to be a light white powder on the
surface and when you brush it off the appearance is as if small snails have
run around in tight circles leaving pit marks.
I was trained as an AME by Qantas and have even spent some time working in
their corrosion treatment section and have never seen this type of corrosion
before.
I not only chromate all the inside surfaces but also coat the bare skins
with Boeshield or LPS3 until they are ready for painting.
Regards
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
CH601-XL 5075
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Dramatic decision
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
>
> We noticed at OSH that the RV quickbuild kit wasn't zinc chromated inside,
> nor was the partially constructed 601 at the Zenith tent (even on the
mating
> surfaces). We have therefore boldly decided to forgo any additional
> interior greening of our 801. Who knows, it might even save a pound or
two.
> And I have the feeling that we will be a mouldering in our graves
(molding?
> moldering?) before the 801's trustly T-6061 corrodes, zinc chromate or no.
>
> I offer this observation largely to generate traditional list traffic in
the
> wake of "Fred's" departure. :)
>
> Cheers
> Doug Garrou
> Project 801
> www.garrou.com
>
> p.s. Got to fly (really just "sit") right seat in the tri-motor at OSH
and
> it was a blast. With that big old thick wing, I think it is a spiritual
> ancestor of the Heintz designs....
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | 601 Stratus Push-pull Throttle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Hi List,
After some frustration with trying to reconcile the cable and spring
throttle controls, I cut the cables and pulled the left sleeve from the
assembly and removed the carb throttle springs. A push-pull hard-wire link
was made to fit the firewall standard throttle bolt and .063 wire goes thru the
sleeve that connects with the right Bing throttle linkage. A flexible linkage
was put between the left and right carburators that is simple but unique
to anything I've seen before. These carbs hit the stops at the same time every
time
and are smooth to operate without springs throughout the full motion.
Very excited about this change and I've read that more than a few of you
wished for something better in throttle control. Maybe this is it. It certainly
isn't a difficult or costly change. If this offends anyone's mechanical
sensitivities, please advise. The best descriptive and pictures are on the last
paragraphs of my journal, segment 6 and pictures are on the Subaru page.
Best regards,
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Dramatic decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com
In a message dated 8/14/2003 12:32:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
polestar@prodigy.net writes:
> Doug,
>
> Good luck. I left two pieces of trusty T-6061 in my basement for 6 months.
> One developed significant corrosion, the other did not. Hope you have the
> lucky stuff.
>
> P Chappano
> NC32372 - 1940 Porterfield LC-65
> N9961- Zodiac 601XL
I too forewent the Zinc-Cromate on some last minute parts just before flight
testing. This was two years ago. I had to change them out at my last
conditional inspection. I would think real good and hard about not priming.
John W. Tarabocchia
(407) 709-7255
http://hometown.aol.com/Zodiacbuilder
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Dramatic decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
Doug,
I do not know about the RV at Oshkosh but the taildragger 601XL fuselage
at Oshkosh had a green substance brushed on to the mating durfaces that were
riveted together. It almost looked like green tinted varnish. The parts that
were clecoed together had no coating on them. Old Ercoupes did not have any
zinc chromate and that is why most of them wre no longer airworthy. Ercoupe
owners now have to pull their wings off every 3 years to inspect for
corosion. Ercoupes are made of thicker stuff than 601's are made of. Suit
yourself though.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Dramatic decision
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
>
> We noticed at OSH that the RV quickbuild kit wasn't zinc chromated inside,
> nor was the partially constructed 601 at the Zenith tent (even on the
mating
> surfaces). We have therefore boldly decided to forgo any additional
> interior greening of our 801. Who knows, it might even save a pound or
two.
> And I have the feeling that we will be a mouldering in our graves
(molding?
> moldering?) before the 801's trustly T-6061 corrodes, zinc chromate or no.
>
> I offer this observation largely to generate traditional list traffic in
the
> wake of "Fred's" departure. :)
>
> Cheers
> Doug Garrou
> Project 801
> www.garrou.com
>
> p.s. Got to fly (really just "sit") right seat in the tri-motor at OSH
and
> it was a blast. With that big old thick wing, I think it is a spiritual
> ancestor of the Heintz designs....
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Dramatic decision-corrosion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
After dealing with corrosion on my last 56 year old plane I am making sure
that all mating surfaces are painted with zinc oxide. I will spray the insides
of the skins with some type of corrosion x treatment after paint ( this stuff
finds its way outside and paint won't stick.
Jack Russell - Clovis CA
600 XL
Fuselage
Message 13
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| Subject: | XL Axle to landing gear? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
Hi Folks: I am about ready to drill the 4 holes to mount the axle to the
landing gear on the XL. Since ZAC decided to leave out any instruction on
placement perhaps someone here can help. I have decided that the axle must be flush
with the rear edge of the gear to clear the brake caliper but since the
"mounting area" of the gear is about 4" long how high should it be from the bottom
edge? My choice can change the height of the fuselage by as much as 4" when
standing on the gear. If the nose gear is not adjustable as far as height my
decision could give me a fuselage that is not level. Even with the nose gear
installed the weight of the engine and everything left to install will change the
picture. Should I wait for the finished plane to do this? Ideas?
Thanks in advance.
Jack Russell Clovis -CA
601XL fuselage
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Duane Evans" <duanee10@pacn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fly info
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi Duane,
Hi Ron
I did not cut down the wheel pants and my speed are verified by GPS and
flying with other other A/C flying along with me. The TD is pretty docile
but the rudder is very sensitive . do lots of taxi test to get the feel of
the plane and keep the tail wheel on the ground as long as posible . When
you are taxiing pay attention to where the nose is in relation to the
horizon and then try to land in that position.and keep the tailwheel on the
ground I hope you have lockable tailwheel The airplane is very easy to
fly. I havent tried to get insurance yet as I fly over mostly forrest ,
mountains and wheat fields
Duane Evans
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: XL Axle to landing gear? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed" <orion@silcom.com>
Hi Jack...Just realised you're doing the XL...doesn't have the
forks...forget all after Hi Jack.
Ed. Sorry about that.
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