---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/12/03: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:23 AM - 7F14 page outdated (Johann) 2. 07:52 AM - Re: 7F14 page outdated (Gary Gower) 3. 08:09 AM - Avery Tools (Scott Laughlin) 4. 08:54 AM - Re: Avery Tools (Bill Cardell) 5. 10:02 AM - Position of Venturi (r.p.reynolds) 6. 11:03 AM - Re: Avery Tools (Don Walker) 7. 12:14 PM - Re: Avery Tools (CLOJAN@aol.com) 8. 12:19 PM - Re: Avery Tools (Bill Cardell) 9. 02:49 PM - Re Flame Mykael not Avery (CLOJAN@aol.com) 10. 02:55 PM - Re: Avery Tools (Larry McFarland) 11. 03:01 PM - Re: Position of Venturi (Larry McFarland) 12. 03:10 PM - Re: Avery Tools/Stratus stuff (Don Walker) 13. 03:22 PM - Re: Position of Venturi (Dave Austin) 14. 03:57 PM - Re: Position of Venturi (wizard-24@juno.com) 15. 04:04 PM - Re: Avery Tools (Bill Cardell) 16. 06:35 PM - 801 project has to go away (IngrJ181@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:44 AM PST US From: "Johann" Subject: Zenith-List: 7F14 page outdated --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" Hello list members. I need your help with one page in the drawings. I have updated my plans once from Zenith and have the 4th edition 06/2001. Some changes have been made to page 7-F-14 since then, mostly to the cowl support parts. I am about to bolt on the engine mount on the firewall, and any parts needed for the firewall=B4s sides would be best to attach at this stage. Does anyone have the latest page for the forward fuselage details 7-F-14? I can not find this page on Zenith=B4s homepage. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Kindest regards, Johann G. Iceland www.gi.is/fis ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:04 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 7F14 page outdated --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Johann, The page in our plans is 4th Edition 02/2002 We bought the 701 kit in May/2002 if this is the latest, count on a copy, just send me your street mail address. Anyone has a newer version? Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S last details 601 XL in the box Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. --- Johann wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" > > Hello list members. > > I need your help with one page in the drawings. I have updated my > plans > once from Zenith and have the 4th edition 06/2001. > Some changes have been made to page 7-F-14 since then, mostly to the > cowl support parts. > I am about to bolt on the engine mount on the firewall, and any parts > needed for the firewall=B4s sides would be best to attach at this > stage. > Does anyone have the latest page for the forward fuselage details > 7-F-14? I can not find this page on Zenith=B4s homepage. > > Your help would be greatly appreciated. > > Kindest regards, > > Johann G. > Iceland > www.gi.is/fis > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:12 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Fellow Zenith Builders: I am relatively new to airplane building - I started in Jan. -03 - and I have met some nice people along the way. A few days ago I called Avery Tools for the first time. I had decided to purchase a tool, but before they would let me place the order, they asked what I wanted it for. I explained and Mr. Bob Avery talked me out of it. He actually saved me over $100 because he said what I wanted was overkill and he explained a cheaper alternative even though it meant my purchasing from somebody else. I wanted to share this with everyone because it was a very nice thing to do and in doing so, Bob lost a sale. The truth is he gained more sales because I'll go to Avery Tools first from now on. I actually placed my first order with them yesterday. The list seemed a little slow today, so I hope nobody minds me putting in a good word for Avery Tools due to a good experience with them. Have a good day, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com P.S. You can download their catalog in *.PDF files for off-line viewing / dreaming. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:50 AM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Scott, Thanks! We certainly shouldn't mind, that's exactly the type of info that should be disseminated, IMHO. On another note, had a conversation with Mykael at Stratus last night. He seems to believe that any valve guide issues were caused by overheated engines. Any input? do not archive Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Scott Laughlin [mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com] Subject: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Fellow Zenith Builders: I am relatively new to airplane building - I started in Jan. -03 - and I have met some nice people along the way. A few days ago I called Avery Tools for the first time. I had decided to purchase a tool, but before they would let me place the order, they asked what I wanted it for. I explained and Mr. Bob Avery talked me out of it. He actually saved me over $100 because he said what I wanted was overkill and he explained a cheaper alternative even though it meant my purchasing from somebody else. I wanted to share this with everyone because it was a very nice thing to do and in doing so, Bob lost a sale. The truth is he gained more sales because I'll go to Avery Tools first from now on. I actually placed my first order with them yesterday. The list seemed a little slow today, so I hope nobody minds me putting in a good word for Avery Tools due to a good experience with them. Have a good day, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com P.S. You can download their catalog in *.PDF files for off-line viewing / dreaming. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:15 AM PST US From: "r.p.reynolds" Subject: Zenith-List: Position of Venturi --> Zenith-List message posted by: "r.p.reynolds" Zenair fans, I have at last got my 601 into the air. It has flown 3.5 hours so far. Question does anyone know if a venturi 8" will work on this aircraft if so were is the best place to locate it so it gives enough vacuum. I have mine placed under the aircraft just in front of the main spar a couple of inches inside the cockpit left side. I am only getting 2" of murcury at the monent. The aircrafts performance seems very good at this early stage. Engine is the Rotax 912S Any help would be great. Regards Paul G-CCED UK. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:48 AM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avery Tools Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:03:08 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Bill, That is sad to hear regarding Mykel's assessment of this problem. It is clear that failures occurred in heads that never reached the 230 degree red line for Stratus engines. My temp plug is in perfect shape on the original head. And the replacement he sent me failed also, though it was flown more gently than the first. Both had knurled guides. Of course, his modification of the guides by changing to the bronze alloy and putting retaining rings on them seems to be acknowledgment of a problem, doesn't it? He seems like a nice guy, but has denied this in a seemingly naieve way from the beginning. Don Walker do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Cardell To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Scott, Thanks! We certainly shouldn't mind, that's exactly the type of info that should be disseminated, IMHO. On another note, had a conversation with Mykael at Stratus last night. He seems to believe that any valve guide issues were caused by overheated engines. Any input? do not archive Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Scott Laughlin [mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Fellow Zenith Builders: I am relatively new to airplane building - I started in Jan. -03 - and I have met some nice people along the way. A few days ago I called Avery Tools for the first time. I had decided to purchase a tool, but before they would let me place the order, they asked what I wanted it for. I explained and Mr. Bob Avery talked me out of it. He actually saved me over $100 because he said what I wanted was overkill and he explained a cheaper alternative even though it meant my purchasing from somebody else. I wanted to share this with everyone because it was a very nice thing to do and in doing so, Bob lost a sale. The truth is he gained more sales because I'll go to Avery Tools first from now on. I actually placed my first order with them yesterday. The list seemed a little slow today, so I hope nobody minds me putting in a good word for Avery Tools due to a good experience with them. Have a good day, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com P.S. You can download their catalog in *.PDF files for off-line viewing / dreaming. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:53 PM PST US From: CLOJAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com Thanks Scott. I forwarded your letter to Avery with my note of thanks and a promise to look at their cat first. Customer service is alive and well (someplaces). Jack Russell Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:37 PM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Well, it didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy that only "maybe 3" had failed. Three out of whatever limited number is perhaps acceptable in an automobile, but where gravity plays a larger role, it's scary. I'll be pulling mine apart, even though it's never been run (purchased by someone else in '97, so before Mykel's time). Similar response on the motor mounts, that there's a lot more vibration in airplanes than in cars, so that'll happen. No comment on changing the design, he's just being very careful welding them now. do not archive Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Bill, That is sad to hear regarding Mykel's assessment of this problem. It is clear that failures occurred in heads that never reached the 230 degree red line for Stratus engines. My temp plug is in perfect shape on the original head. And the replacement he sent me failed also, though it was flown more gently than the first. Both had knurled guides. Of course, his modification of the guides by changing to the bronze alloy and putting retaining rings on them seems to be acknowledgment of a problem, doesn't it? He seems like a nice guy, but has denied this in a seemingly naieve way from the beginning. Don Walker do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Cardell To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Scott, Thanks! We certainly shouldn't mind, that's exactly the type of info that should be disseminated, IMHO. On another note, had a conversation with Mykael at Stratus last night. He seems to believe that any valve guide issues were caused by overheated engines. Any input? do not archive Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Scott Laughlin [mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Fellow Zenith Builders: I am relatively new to airplane building - I started in Jan. -03 - and I have met some nice people along the way. A few days ago I called Avery Tools for the first time. I had decided to purchase a tool, but before they would let me place the order, they asked what I wanted it for. I explained and Mr. Bob Avery talked me out of it. He actually saved me over $100 because he said what I wanted was overkill and he explained a cheaper alternative even though it meant my purchasing from somebody else. I wanted to share this with everyone because it was a very nice thing to do and in doing so, Bob lost a sale. The truth is he gained more sales because I'll go to Avery Tools first from now on. I actually placed my first order with them yesterday. The list seemed a little slow today, so I hope nobody minds me putting in a good word for Avery Tools due to a good experience with them. Have a good day, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com P.S. You can download their catalog in *.PDF files for off-line viewing / dreaming. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:41 PM PST US From: CLOJAN@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re Flame Mykael not Avery --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/03 3:20:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bill@flyinmiata.com writes: > Thanks! We certainly shouldn't mind, that's exactly the type of info that > should be disseminated, IMHO. On another note, had a conversation with > Mykael at Stratus last night. He seems to believe that any valve guide > issues were caused by overheated engines. Any input? > Just a reminder to change the subject line when you start a new thread. By leaving it the same I am seeing all of this negative response to Avery tools (who we were just praising) even though they have nothing to do with it. Sorry Jack Russell do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:35 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell > > Scott, > Thanks! We certainly shouldn't mind, that's exactly the type of info that > should be disseminated, IMHO. On another note, had a conversation with > Mykael at Stratus last night. He seems to believe that any valve guide > issues were caused by overheated engines. Any input? Bill, I think Mykal's right. There are a lot of Subarus by Stratus rolling up a lot of good flying hours. The problems you reference seem to be caused by the cooling arrangement used on the Zenith 601. The exhaust muffler is right in front of incoming air, the nose gear and the radiator risers attaching to hoses all contribute to an obstructive and corrupted sort of airflow. Even so, a good number of 601s with Stratus Soobs seem to get along fine when the temps are kept down. I'd be hard pressed to blame the Stratus, but the installation and location of the radiator per Zenith. Larry C. McFarland - 601(Stratus) @ www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:33 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Position of Venturi --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: Position of Venturi > Zenair fans, > > I have at last got my 601 into the air. It has flown 3.5 hours so far. > Question does anyone know if a venturi 8" will work on this aircraft if so were is the best place to locate it so it gives enough vacuum. I have mine placed under the aircraft just in front of the main spar a couple of inches inside the cockpit left side. I am only getting 2" of murcury at the monent. > The aircrafts performance seems very good at this early stage. Engine is the Rotax 912S > > Any help would be great. > > Regards > > Paul > G-CCED UK. Congratulations Paul! You've got to be a happy person after all. I've noticed that most 601 venturi's I've seen were above the wing approximately where you describe, just forward and down from the instrument panel on the left side. Larry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:37 PM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avery Tools/Stratus stuff Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:10:22 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Ah, I see. If that is what he said, then he is minimizing this also by misrepresenting the number of failures. I can think of at least six right off the top of my head. I also informed him that the engineer I consulted said that this was a poor design on the upper right engine mount and told him why. I sent him pictures of the cracked mount bracket. The welding IS NOT the problem with the brackets. Even I can see that. This attitude is disturbing, no matter how nice a guy he is. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Cardell To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 2:14 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Well, it didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy that only "maybe 3" had failed. Three out of whatever limited number is perhaps acceptable in an automobile, but where gravity plays a larger role, it's scary. I'll be pulling mine apart, even though it's never been run (purchased by someone else in '97, so before Mykel's time). Similar response on the motor mounts, that there's a lot more vibration in airplanes than in cars, so that'll happen. No comment on changing the design, he's just being very careful welding them now. do not archive Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" Bill, That is sad to hear regarding Mykel's assessment of this problem. It is clear that failures occurred in heads that never reached the 230 degree red line for Stratus engines. My temp plug is in perfect shape on the original head. And the replacement he sent me failed also, though it was flown more gently than the first. Both had knurled guides. Of course, his modification of the guides by changing to the bronze alloy and putting retaining rings on them seems to be acknowledgment of a problem, doesn't it? He seems like a nice guy, but has denied this in a seemingly naieve way from the beginning. Don Walker do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Cardell To: 'zenith-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Scott, Thanks! We certainly shouldn't mind, that's exactly the type of info that should be disseminated, IMHO. On another note, had a conversation with Mykael at Stratus last night. He seems to believe that any valve guide issues were caused by overheated engines. Any input? do not archive Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Scott Laughlin [mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com] To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Fellow Zenith Builders: I am relatively new to airplane building - I started in Jan. -03 - and I have met some nice people along the way. A few days ago I called Avery Tools for the first time. I had decided to purchase a tool, but before they would let me place the order, they asked what I wanted it for. I explained and Mr. Bob Avery talked me out of it. He actually saved me over $100 because he said what I wanted was overkill and he explained a cheaper alternative even though it meant my purchasing from somebody else. I wanted to share this with everyone because it was a very nice thing to do and in doing so, Bob lost a sale. The truth is he gained more sales because I'll go to Avery Tools first from now on. I actually placed my first order with them yesterday. The list seemed a little slow today, so I hope nobody minds me putting in a good word for Avery Tools due to a good experience with them. Have a good day, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com P.S. You can download their catalog in *.PDF files for off-line viewing / dreaming. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:06 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Position of Venturi --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" Paul, I have an 8 in. venturi on mine, mounted on the stbd side, level with the instrument panel about 5 inches above the wing. Works well. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 - 450 hrs ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Position of Venturi From: wizard-24@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com Any problem with mounting the venturi upside-down on the belly, in the center of the plane? (for instance, just forward of the center wing spar on the underside of the cabin floor)? Mike Fortunato 601XL The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:56 PM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Larry, I'm sure there are. Just figure it's good insurance since the engine hasn't been installed yet. Being an engine guy myself, it amazes me that a manufacturer would install guides without shoulders in the first place. Of course I haven't even picked up my half built kit yet, nor seen the engine in the flesh. Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc@qconline.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Avery Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Avery Tools > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell > > Scott, > Thanks! We certainly shouldn't mind, that's exactly the type of info that > should be disseminated, IMHO. On another note, had a conversation with > Mykael at Stratus last night. He seems to believe that any valve guide > issues were caused by overheated engines. Any input? Bill, I think Mykal's right. There are a lot of Subarus by Stratus rolling up a lot of good flying hours. The problems you reference seem to be caused by the cooling arrangement used on the Zenith 601. The exhaust muffler is right in front of incoming air, the nose gear and the radiator risers attaching to hoses all contribute to an obstructive and corrupted sort of airflow. Even so, a good number of 601s with Stratus Soobs seem to get along fine when the temps are kept down. I'd be hard pressed to blame the Stratus, but the installation and location of the radiator per Zenith. Larry C. McFarland - 601(Stratus) @ www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:50 PM PST US From: IngrJ181@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 801 project has to go away --> Zenith-List message posted by: IngrJ181@aol.com Hello everybody I have come to the point where I have to sell my 801 project. It is a complete kit with the extra tanks. Tail feathers complete, right wing complete but not closed and no fuel system committed to yet, slats and flaperons complete, rear fuse is 90% ( just rear seats and baggage to go ). That leaves left wing, fuel system, forward fuse, gear, and final assembly to go for a complete airframe ready for engine and instuments. The steel parts, struts etc.. have been powdercoated white and all parts have been well taken care of and in storage, I have been told by other builders and restorers that my work is very good and I feel comfortable that I have made no critical mistakes. I will make some one a very good deal on this. Builders log and construction photos have been kept up. If you'r serial about buying an 801 then contact me soon, please, Jim Ingram P.O. Box 916 Carlton Oregon 97111 503-852-7869 keep trying eves best or 6am-6:30am PST ingrj181@aol.com