Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:37 AM - Re: Rotax carb heat (Dave Alberti)
2. 06:32 AM - Am I Crazy? (Bima, Martin)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Am I Crazy? (Scott Laughlin)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: 701 wing spar rivets for .125 caps... (Ed Kramer)
5. 08:51 AM - Re: Airworthy 701 (H. Robert Schoenberger)
6. 08:57 AM - 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap (John Scott)
7. 09:59 AM - Re: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
8. 11:04 AM - Re: Am I Crazy? (Flydog1966@aol.com)
9. 12:19 PM - Re: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap (Graham Kirby)
10. 12:29 PM - HP vs LBS. (Ashcraft, Keith -AES)
11. 12:30 PM - 701 AD's (Jkingpawn@aol.com)
12. 01:10 PM - Jon Croke Congrats!!! (RURUNY@aol.com)
13. 04:04 PM - Re: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap (John Montgomery)
14. 06:56 PM - Re: 701 AD's (Bryan Martin)
15. 07:26 PM - Re: HP vs LBS. (Bryan Martin)
16. 11:03 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
I have the Rotax air box on my 912S. It has provisions for carb heat and
fresh air.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
I am thinking it may be a good idea to have some carb heat on the 912s.
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Thanks to the list for your answers and advice - this is an excellent forum.
I am very much enjoying myself plans-building a 701 and have about 100 hours
in making parts. I recently made the form for the instrument panel and
decided to have some fun and lay out the instruments (right down to the
digital clock and CD player) on the MDF with my sharpie. After about 45
minutes of rather artsy work, I was sitting in the kitchen scrunched beside
my 4 year-old son with the instrument panel on the table and we were both
making vroom-vroom noises.
Is this ok?
Also to 701 plans-builders:
The wing spar web has only 9 lightening holes in it - not 10 - only 9. If
anyone does require one wing spar web with 10 holes, please contact me
off-line and we can arrange shipping.
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair 701
100 hours building
65% parts complete
10% engine complete
1 extra 10-hole wing spar web for sale
Do not archive
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
Am I Crazy?
Thanks to the list for your answers and advice - this is an excellent forum.
I am very much enjoying myself plans-building a 701 and have about 100 hours in
making parts. I recently made the form for the instrument panel and decided to
have some fun and lay out the instruments (right down to the digital clock and
CD player) on the MDF with my sharpie. After about 45 minutes of rather artsy
work, I was sitting in the kitchen scrunched beside my 4 year-old son with
the instrument panel on the table and we were both making vroom-vroom noises.
Is this ok?
Also to 701 plans-builders:
The wing spar web has only 9 lightening holes in it - not 10 - only 9. If anyone
does require one wing spar web with 10 holes, please contact me off-line and
we can arrange shipping.
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair 701
100 hours building
65% parts complete
10% engine complete
1 extra 10-hole wing spar web for sale
Do not archive
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Martin:
I got a chuckle out of the 10-hole spar for sale. Thanks.
Scott Laughlin
Z-601XL/Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Am I Crazy?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Thanks to the list for your answers and advice - this is an excellent forum.
I am very much enjoying myself plans-building a 701 and have about 100 hours
in making parts. I recently made the form for the instrument panel and
decided to have some fun and lay out the instruments (right down to the
digital clock and CD player) on the MDF with my sharpie. After about 45
minutes of rather artsy work, I was sitting in the kitchen scrunched beside
my 4 year-old son with the instrument panel on the table and we were both
making vroom-vroom noises.
Is this ok?
Also to 701 plans-builders:
The wing spar web has only 9 lightening holes in it - not 10 - only 9. If
anyone does require one wing spar web with 10 holes, please contact me
off-line and we can arrange shipping.
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair 701
100 hours building
65% parts complete
10% engine complete
1 extra 10-hole wing spar web for sale
Do not archive
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
Am I Crazy?
Thanks to the list for your answers and advice - this is an excellent forum.
I am very much enjoying myself plans-building a 701 and have about 100 hours
in making parts. I recently made the form for the instrument panel and
decided to have some fun and lay out the instruments (right down to the
digital clock and CD player) on the MDF with my sharpie. After about 45
minutes of rather artsy work, I was sitting in the kitchen scrunched beside
my 4 year-old son with the instrument panel on the table and we were both
making vroom-vroom noises.
Is this ok?
Also to 701 plans-builders:
The wing spar web has only 9 lightening holes in it - not 10 - only 9. If
anyone does require one wing spar web with 10 holes, please contact me
off-line and we can arrange shipping.
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair 701
100 hours building
65% parts complete
10% engine complete
1 extra 10-hole wing spar web for sale
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 wing spar rivets for .125 caps... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin & Eva Bima"
<bima@autobahn.mb.ca>
>
> Those of us who are using .125 spar caps (as opposed to the .093), did
anyone step up the rivet length to 7/16 from the specified 6/16?
Martin,
According to AC 43.13 (Acceptable Methods & Techniques) the rivet should
extend through the materials to be riveted 1.5 times the diameter of the
rivet .
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701
edair701@adelphia.net
Build Status:
Rudder completed
Left wing complete
Right wing 98%
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Airworthy 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
Jon . . I very happy for you. Congradulations. Hap Schoenberger Do not
archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Airworthy 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Hooray!
>
> This afternoon an airworthy certificate was issued for N701US
>
> After 2+ years of building, this was a good reward.
> FAA inspector was friendly, knowledgeable and finished his work in 1.5
hrs.
> It took only 3 weeks for him to show after mailing my application.
>
> I can now put my tools away and clean off the workbench.
>
> But, will the thing fly? Will wait for a calm day tp find out.
>
> Thanks to all on the list for the technical and emotional support that was
> absolutely required to get to this stage.
>
> Jon
> near Green Bay
>
> www.joncroke.com
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Scott" <JScott@avalonrx.com>
Here is another of those "I'm on my Xth attempt at building this rudder and am
I cut out for this?" emails. In my case, X is 2.5.
I have just finished drilling and clecoing the nose skin to the rudder spar. In
what I thought was a fastidious manner, I tried to keep the radius of the leading
edge skin in contact with the fronts of the tip rib and the nose rib during
the drilling process by holding the skin tightly in place with duct tape.
As I drilled and clecoed from the center towards the ends, the nose skin drew away
from the tip rib slightly. It is not much of gap--just enough that I am able
to push a torn-off piece of index card between the skin and the front of the
rib. Is this a problem?
Of more concern is the nose rib. The radius remained in contact with it as I drilled
and clecoed the skin to the spar, but I can already see that when I begin
to drill and cleco the skin to the nose rib flange the radius is going to be
pushed away from the front of the nose rib by at least 2 to 4 millimeters.
Does anybody else have a gap between the leading edge skin and the front of the
nose rib? Have I ruined this skin?
What techniques do people use to hold the skin against the ribs? Did I simply
not duct tape it as tightly as I should have?
--John Scott
Message 7
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| Subject: | 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Ahh...basic airplane building skills lesson here.
The problem is the clecoe holds the two parts tight together. You will never
get duct tape to do this so as you sart from the edge this will always
happen.
Start from the middle in future and the excess will be pushed to the edges
and disaappear.
As to the issue you now have I would not worry about it...you could alwys
slip in a sliver of 16 thou aluminium if it flexes but it should be just
fine with the tight radius curve you have.
Have fun...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: John Scott [mailto:JScott@avalonrx.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Scott" <JScott@avalonrx.com>
Here is another of those "I'm on my Xth attempt at building this rudder and
am I cut out for this?" emails. In my case, X is 2.5.
I have just finished drilling and clecoing the nose skin to the rudder spar.
In what I thought was a fastidious manner, I tried to keep the radius of the
leading edge skin in contact with the fronts of the tip rib and the nose rib
during the drilling process by holding the skin tightly in place with duct
tape.
As I drilled and clecoed from the center towards the ends, the nose skin
drew away from the tip rib slightly. It is not much of gap--just enough
that I am able to push a torn-off piece of index card between the skin and
the front of the rib. Is this a problem?
Of more concern is the nose rib. The radius remained in contact with it as
I drilled and clecoed the skin to the spar, but I can already see that when
I begin to drill and cleco the skin to the nose rib flange the radius is
going to be pushed away from the front of the nose rib by at least 2 to 4
millimeters. Does anybody else have a gap between the leading edge skin and
the front of the nose rib? Have I ruined this skin?
What techniques do people use to hold the skin against the ribs? Did I
simply not duct tape it as tightly as I should have?
--John Scott
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
In a message dated 10/1/03 9:33:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mbima@hydro.mb.ca writes:
<< instrument panel on the table and we were both
making vroom-vroom noises.
Is this ok? >>
not OK, but is the norm. do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <gkirby@yahoo.com>
John,
Don't worry about the nose-skin to tip rib gap. I for one would love to
have such a small gap.
Couple of simple ideas on the nose rib:
1) You could shim the back face or the rib where it joins the spar.
2) Move the nose rib up the spar a little, probably only an inch or so would
soak up the gap.
3) Make the nose rib slightly longer by cutting off the flange that attaches
to the spar and rivet on a new piece of angle.
Graham Kirby
601HD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Scott
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Scott" <JScott@avalonrx.com>
Here is another of those "I'm on my Xth attempt at building this rudder and
am I cut out for this?" emails. In my case, X is 2.5.
I have just finished drilling and clecoing the nose skin to the rudder spar.
In what I thought was a fastidious manner, I tried to keep the radius of the
leading edge skin in contact with the fronts of the tip rib and the nose rib
during the drilling process by holding the skin tightly in place with duct
tape.
As I drilled and clecoed from the center towards the ends, the nose skin
drew away from the tip rib slightly. It is not much of gap--just enough
that I am able to push a torn-off piece of index card between the skin and
the front of the rib. Is this a problem?
......
Of more concern is the nose rib. The radius remained in contact with it as
I drilled and clecoed the skin to the spar, but I can already see that when
I begin to drill and cleco the skin to the nose rib flange the radius is
going to be pushed away from the front of the nose rib by at least 2 to 4
millimeters. Does anybody else have a gap between the leading edge skin and
the front of the nose rib? Have I ruined this skin?
What techniques do people use to hold the skin against the ribs? Did I
simply not duct tape it as tightly as I should have?
--John Scott
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft@itt.com>
Hello all,
I am constantly browsing and gathering information about plane building,
since I am in the middle of rebuilding my shop and I have no place to
work on my plane (CH701 tail kit and plans), when I came across these
engines. A rule of thumb used to be 2-lbs for every hp. but these are
exceptions. Has anybody had any experience with these companies or
engines? My problem is going to be altitude, so I am still looking for a
high output with low weight engine. I had discussed the 914 turbo with
the group a couple of months ago because of the high altitude flying,
but these engines are a little bit cheaper than the 914, plus I should
be able to add a turbo if needed.
Any input or ideas?
120 h.p. on 110 lbs. -- www.masquito.be
130 h.p. on 185 lbs. -- www.canpoweraviation.com
Thanks,
Keith
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
--
*************************************
Keith Ashcraft
ITT Industries
Advanced Engineering & Sciences
5009 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO
80919
(719) 599-1787 -- work
(719) 332-4364 -- cell
keith.ashcraft@itt.com
************************************
If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery
of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain
ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or
deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify
the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does
not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable
to ITT.
************************************
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jkingpawn@aol.com
could someone please tell me where i can find a list of ad's on the ch701
Message 12
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| Subject: | Jon Croke Congrats!!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Jon,
Congratulations on finishing your plane. I've gone through the pics on your site
and used them to help me make many decisions on how to approach certain problems.
I feel like I was right there with you thru the building process. Thank
you,
and good luck with your first flight!!!!!
Brian
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Montgomery <1arm@rogers.com>
I hit this problem too - I have this gap and the skin is clecoed to the rib.
I did my rudder at a workshop at Flypass and this was not the only
imperfection I created... Live and Learn.
Art Mitchel stated something like "don't get overly concerned about the
little thing -you're not building a space shuttle here".
After thinking about it, I don't having space in front would be an
issue. I have seen a few planes where - I assume for ease of rib
construction - the nose tip of a wing rib is missing and the leading
edge skin is allowed to assume a natural curve (continuing from the rest
of the nose rib).
Another example would be your horizontal stabilizer. Aside from the tip
ribs, there are no nose ribs at all...
Of course if this is an issue I should address - someone let me know.
John Montgomery
Ottawa, Canada
601XL plans, *still* working on tail, partway through wing rib pounding
John Scott wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Scott" <JScott@avalonrx.com>
>
>Here is another of those "I'm on my Xth attempt at building this rudder and am
I cut out for this?" emails. In my case, X is 2.5.
>
>I have just finished drilling and clecoing the nose skin to the rudder spar.
In what I thought was a fastidious manner, I tried to keep the radius of the leading
edge skin in contact with the fronts of the tip rib and the nose rib during
the drilling process by holding the skin tightly in place with duct tape.
>
>As I drilled and clecoed from the center towards the ends, the nose skin drew
away from the tip rib slightly. It is not much of gap--just enough that I am
able to push a torn-off piece of index card between the skin and the front of
the rib. Is this a problem?
>
>Of more concern is the nose rib. The radius remained in contact with it as I
drilled and clecoed the skin to the spar, but I can already see that when I begin
to drill and cleco the skin to the nose rib flange the radius is going to
be pushed away from the front of the nose rib by at least 2 to 4 millimeters.
Does anybody else have a gap between the leading edge skin and the front of the
nose rib? Have I ruined this skin?
>
>What techniques do people use to hold the skin against the ribs? Did I simply
not duct tape it as tightly as I should have?
>
>--John Scott
>
>
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 10/1/03 3:29 PM, Jkingpawn@aol.com at Jkingpawn@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jkingpawn@aol.com
>
> could someone please tell me where i can find a list of ad's on the ch701
The FAA does not issue ADs on homebuilt aircraft but the kit manufacturer
may have a list of design changes they recommend be implemented. Check the
Zenith website ( http://www.zenithair.com/ ) or contact them by phone or
e-mail. There is also the Zenith newsletter, Zenair News. Safety related
notices and hcanges are published in this newsletter. You can subscribe for
$20 a year and get all the back issues relating to the 701 for $90.
Zenair News: e-mail- sskrog@aol.com , phone- 262-966-7627
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Working on electrical and interior.
do not archive.
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 10/1/03 3:28 PM, Ashcraft, Keith -AES at Keith.Ashcraft@itt.com wrote:
> A rule of thumb used to be 2-lbs for every hp.
That's about right for an air-cooled four-stroke aircraft engine operating
at the 2500 to 2700 RPM typical of these engines. Water-cooled auto engines
can do better but they run at 5000 to 7000 RPM and require PSRUs.
> Any input or ideas?
>
> 120 h.p. on 110 lbs. -- www.masquito.be
This power is obtained at 3700 RPM. You'd have to have a very small prop to
operate at 3700 RPM and you would not get a whole lot of usable thrust out
of it. Too much of the propeller disk would be blocked by the fuselage.
Aircraft propellers work best at 2700 RPM or less. You'd need a PSRU on this
engine to get 120 HP at reasonable propeller speeds and that adds weight. It
might do all right in a helicopter but that will require gear reduction
anyway.
> 130 h.p. on 185 lbs. -- www.canpoweraviation.com
This sounds a bit more reasonable but the RPM is not given and the engine
only exits on paper.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Working on electrical and interior.
do not archive.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
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will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
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