---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/03/03: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:33 AM - Re: Off topic engine cooling question (Bryan Martin) 2. 05:01 AM - Re: First flight 912S Oil Heat (Thilo Kind) 3. 05:14 AM - Re: Off topic engine cooling question (Cy Galley) 4. 05:17 AM - Re: Off topic engine cooling question (Randy Hart) 5. 05:54 AM - Re: Off topic engine cooling question (Scott Laughlin) 6. 06:15 AM - Re: Off topic engine cooling question (Randall Thomure) 7. 06:24 AM - Re: Off topic engine cooling question (Trampas) 8. 07:22 AM - Instrumentation (Phil Raker) 9. 07:22 AM - Instruments () 10. 07:39 AM - Re: Instrumentation (Gary Gower) 11. 08:10 AM - Re: Instruments (F. Wolsink) 12. 08:21 AM - Re: TSO'd Instruments (Dave Pepper) 13. 11:25 AM - Rotating Beacon (charles.long@gm.com) 14. 11:50 AM - Re: Rotating Beacon (Ed Kramer) 15. 01:30 PM - Re: First flight 912S Oil Heat (Frank Jones) 16. 01:41 PM - Re: TSO'd Instruments (Frank Jones) 17. 01:48 PM - Re: First flight 912S Oil Heat (Weston, Jim) 18. 01:48 PM - Re: Instruments (Grant Corriveau) 19. 01:54 PM - Re: Pega Stol Wings (Kresent O. Gurtler) 20. 02:10 PM - Re: Off topic engine cooling question (CO) (Jim Frisby) 21. 03:01 PM - Re: Instruments (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 22. 03:47 PM - Re: Rotating Beacon (Cy Galley) 23. 04:35 PM - Re: Instruments (Pieper_Frank) 24. 04:40 PM - Re: Rotating Beacon (Pieper_Frank) 25. 04:54 PM - Chat room and BBS (Brett Ray) 26. 04:56 PM - "Sport Aviation" mags (John Ruddock) 27. 05:02 PM - Re: Off topic engine cooling question (CO) (Jeff Small) 28. 05:16 PM - Re: Chat room and BBS (Matt Dralle) 29. 05:26 PM - Lighting requirements (Jeff Small) 30. 06:52 PM - Re: TSO'd Instruments (Tim & Diane Shankland) 31. 08:03 PM - Re: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap (Brenton Battles) 32. 09:28 PM - Re: TSO'd Instruments (nhulin) 33. 10:09 PM - Re: Chat room and BBS (Brett Ray) 34. 11:18 PM - Re: Instruments (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 10/3/03 12:11 AM, owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com at owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com wrote: > I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 > weeks. The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere! When the car A blown head gasket could cause the coolant to leak into one of the cylinders to be burned with the fuel. Is your exhaust pipe putting out a lot of white smoke? A water pump leak can occur when the seal wears out and usually only drips when the engine is running. You'll find anti-freeze stains around the area of the leek. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Working on electrical and interior. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:59 AM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi folks, I see maximum oil temps of 230F. Normally they are around 200 F, depending somewhat on the type of oil I use. CHT is around 115 F. Coolant is 200 F during climb out and 145 F during cruise. This is a 912 with the water rad inside the cowling. Later Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > Paul, > > Thanks a lot for the advice. Do you have a picture of your oil cooler > installation? > > I'm beginning to wonder if there might be a mismatch between the VDO > sender on the 912S and the Mitchell gauge I have. Mitchell says they > should match, but I'm not sure. I'm going to tie an ohmmeter in to see > what values the sender is sending. > > It seems that the difference between CHT (185) and Oil (260) is very > high. Did you ever see that kind of differential? > > Frank > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Sharpe > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Sharpe" > > Frank, > > Congratulations on your first flight. > > I had similar temps on the first flight of my 912S powered 601HD. > Thinking I needed more air inlet to the oil cooler I enlarged the > opening, but had little improvement. What it needed was more outlet, to > an area of reduced pressure; so I had to create some ducting from the > oil cooler outlet to the opening at the bottom of the cowl. Vast > improvement. I then also made a rubber seal and installed it around the > oil cooler on the inlet side so that all of the air coming into the duct > has to go through the cooler, not around it. Pressure differential - > high pressure on the inlet side, low pressure on the outlet side - is > what makes the oil cooler effective. > > With outside temperatures of 30C(86F) I see oil temps of 245F; with > outside temp of 20C(68F)oil is about 190F. Cooler OATs mean I have to > block off part of the oil cooler inlet. > > Regards, > Paul Sharpe, > Guelph, ON, Canada > C-IABP / CH601HD / R912S > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Jones" > > > > Listers. I just completed the first flight of 601XL C-GYXQ today. > > the oil temp was getting close to max on the 912S even though it wasn't > a warm day and I > > wasn't maxing out the RPM by any means. > > > > Can anyone offer typical temperature ranges for the 912S that you are > > experiencing? > > > == > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > == > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > == > == > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:39 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" When the water level is up where you can observe it, remove the radiator cap. Start and run the engine. Accelerate it. If you see bubbles in the coolant, you have a head gasket failure. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > > Hi List sorry for the off topic question but IO don;t know where else to > turn. > > I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 > weeks. The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere! When the car > sits either hot or cold no water accumulates under the vehicle....not even > drops! When the engine is hot I can not see anything coming from either the top > or bottom radiator hose, so I can't find any holes in hoses which appear to be > in good repair. The radiator cap fit's snugly and I can't find a leak in the > recovery bottle. The only thing I don't know how to check is the water pump. > > But what I don't understand is where is all of the water going in a "sealed > system" if I can't find it leaking out anywhere. This is making me crazy! > > Any suggestions on where to look would be helpful. > > Thanks, > > Steve (I can't make my damn canopy fit) Freeman > > > "Arial" LANG"0">Hi List sorry for the off topic question but IO don;t=20= > know where else to turn.
>
> I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 w= > eeks.  The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere!  W= > hen the car sits either hot or cold no water accumulates under the vehicle..= > ..not even drops!  When the engine is hot I can not see anything coming= > from either the top or bottom radiator hose, so I can't find any holes in h= > oses which appear to be in good repair.  The radiator cap fit's snugly=20= > and I can't find a leak in the recovery bottle.  The only thing I don't= > know how to check is the water pump.
>
> But what I don't understand is where is all of the water going in a "sealed=20= > system" if I can't find it leaking out anywhere.  This is making me cra= > zy!
>
> Any suggestions on where to look would be helpful.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve (I can't make my damn canopy fit) Freeman > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:35 AM PST US From: "Randy Hart" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Hart" the water is more than likely leaking from the intake gasket, on that model it can leak into the valley of the engine or to the outside, have replaced several. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > > Hi List sorry for the off topic question but IO don;t know where else to > turn. > > I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 > weeks. The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere! When the car > sits either hot or cold no water accumulates under the vehicle....not even > drops! When the engine is hot I can not see anything coming from either the top > or bottom radiator hose, so I can't find any holes in hoses which appear to be > in good repair. The radiator cap fit's snugly and I can't find a leak in the > recovery bottle. The only thing I don't know how to check is the water pump. > > But what I don't understand is where is all of the water going in a "sealed > system" if I can't find it leaking out anywhere. This is making me crazy! > > Any suggestions on where to look would be helpful. > > Thanks, > > Steve (I can't make my damn canopy fit) Freeman > > > "Arial" LANG"0">Hi List sorry for the off topic question but IO don;t=20= > know where else to turn.
>
> I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 w= > eeks.  The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere!  W= > hen the car sits either hot or cold no water accumulates under the vehicle..= > ..not even drops!  When the engine is hot I can not see anything coming= > from either the top or bottom radiator hose, so I can't find any holes in h= > oses which appear to be in good repair.  The radiator cap fit's snugly=20= > and I can't find a leak in the recovery bottle.  The only thing I don't= > know how to check is the water pump.
>
> But what I don't understand is where is all of the water going in a "sealed=20= > system" if I can't find it leaking out anywhere.  This is making me cra= > zy!
>
> Any suggestions on where to look would be helpful.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve (I can't make my damn canopy fit) Freeman > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:07 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Head Gasket. You are burning the water. You should be seeing white smoke out the tailpipe. Good luck. ----Original Message Follows---- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hi List sorry for the off topic question but IO don;t know where else to turn. I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 weeks. The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere! When the car sits either hot or cold no water accumulates under the vehicle....not even drops! When the engine is hot I can not see anything coming from either the top or bottom radiator hose, so I can't find any holes in hoses which appear to be in good repair. The radiator cap fit's snugly and I can't find a leak in the recovery bottle. The only thing I don't know how to check is the water pump. But what I don't understand is where is all of the water going in a "sealed system" if I can't find it leaking out anywhere. This is making me crazy! Any suggestions on where to look would be helpful. Thanks, Steve (I can't make my damn canopy fit) Freeman Hi List sorry for the off topic question but IO don;t=20= know where else to turn.

I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 w= eeks.  The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere!  W= hen the car sits either hot or cold no water accumulates under the vehicle..= ..not even drops!  When the engine is hot I can not see anything coming= from either the top or bottom radiator hose, so I can't find any holes in h= oses which appear to be in good repair.  The radiator cap fit's snugly=20= and I can't find a leak in the recovery bottle.  The only thing I don't= know how to check is the water pump.

But what I don't understand is where is all of the water going in a "sealed=20= system" if I can't find it leaking out anywhere.  This is making me cra= zy!

Any suggestions on where to look would be helpful.

Thanks,

Steve (I can't make my damn canopy fit) Freeman ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:54 AM PST US From: "Randall Thomure" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Thomure" A couple of suggestions on your cooling issue. 1. The common point of failure is the water pump. The bearing seals fail first. There is no indication with the engine is not running. When the engine is running you will see a stream of water coming from the bottom of the water pump housing boss The boss is the part of the housing that sticks out from the main body. It contains the bearings and seals. 2. Another potential source of the problem is a leak in the head gasket. A number of years ago I had a 68 Ford Mustang with a 200 ci inline 6. It was notorious for blowing head gaskets. The only time it would leak was when I was pushing the engine hard or engine speed of over 3,000 rpm. When I exceeded its limit, the exhaust would blow into the water jacket. The water would then superheat and blow out the overflow. I got real good at replacing head gaskets. A standard compression check never should a problem. Hope you find the problem. Good Luck. Randy Thomure Rudder Done Horizontal Stabilizer 80% Summers over time to get back to work on the plane.

A couple of suggestions on your cooling issue.

  1. The common point of failure is the water pump.  The bearing seals fail first.  There is no indication with the engine is not running.  When the engine is running you will see a stream of water coming from the bottom of the water pump housing boss The boss is the part of the housing that sticks out from the main body.  It contains the bearings and seals.
  2. Another potential source of the problem is a leak in the head gasket.  A number of years ago I had a ’68 Ford Mustang with a 200 ci inline 6.  It was notorious for blowing head gaskets.  The only time it would leak was when I was pushing the engine hard or engine speed of over 3,000 rpm.  When I exceeded it’s limit, the exhaust would blow into the water jacket.  The water would then superheat and blow out the overflow.  I got real good at replacing head gaskets.  A standard compression check never should a problem.

Hope you find the problem.

Good Luck.

Randy Thomure

Rudder – Done

Horizontal Stabilizer – 80%

Summers over – time to get back to work on the plane.

________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:52 AM PST US From: "Trampas" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Trampas" In the morning when engine is cold crank up the engine, open hood and feel upper radiator hose. If it has pressure then head gasket blown. Other possible cause is a bad radiator cap. If the radiator cap does not hole pressure than the water will eventually boil away. The easiest way to check the cap is with a tester, but often it is easier just to get a new cap. Another way to test the cap is once the car is at operating temperatures open the hood and feel the top radiator hose, if it does not have pressure on it, then cap is most likely bad. Also usually with a bad cap at operating temperature the overflow bottle will be bubbling as the water is being boiled away. Trampas -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Laughlin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Head Gasket. You are burning the water. You should be seeing white smoke out the tailpipe. Good luck. ----Original Message Follows---- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hi List sorry for the off topic question but IO don;t know where else to turn. I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 weeks. The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere! When the car sits either hot or cold no water accumulates under the vehicle....not even drops! When the engine is hot I can not see anything coming from either the top or bottom radiator hose, so I can't find any holes in hoses which appear to be in good repair. The radiator cap fit's snugly and I can't find a leak in the recovery bottle. The only thing I don't know how to check is the water pump. But what I don't understand is where is all of the water going in a "sealed system" if I can't find it leaking out anywhere. This is making me crazy! Any suggestions on where to look would be helpful. Thanks, Steve (I can't make my damn canopy fit) Freeman Hi List sorry for the off topic question but IO don;t=20= know where else to turn.

I have a 95 Lumina mini van that is losing 100% of it's water about ever 2 w= eeks.  The problem is I can't find a leak in anything anywhere!  W= hen the car sits either hot or cold no water accumulates under the vehicle..= ..not even drops!  When the engine is hot I can not see anything coming= from either the top or bottom radiator hose, so I can't find any holes in h= oses which appear to be in good repair.  The radiator cap fit's snugly=20= and I can't find a leak in the recovery bottle.  The only thing I don't= know how to check is the water pump.

But what I don't understand is where is all of the water going in a "sealed=20= system" if I can't find it leaking out anywhere.  This is making me cra= zy!

Any suggestions on where to look would be helpful.

Thanks,

Steve (I can't make my damn canopy fit) Freeman ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:43 AM PST US From: Phil Raker Subject: Zenith-List: Instrumentation --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker Hello, Alex, Have you considered the Grand Rapids "Horizon EFIS" instead of all the instruments? That could be especially good since you list GRT's EIS for engine data. The GRT EFIS has all the gyro stuff you list and more for about the same money as the non-TSO instruments, and probably better reliability than TSO, with no troublesome vacuum pump or ice-prone venturi. Does anyone on the list know whether a DAR will certify a plane with the GRT EFIS for nighttime & IFR flight? As I understand it, the only requirement is to have sufficient instrumentation and avionics to control the plane and to make safe use of the system, and that no single-point failure can disable the ability to do so. With needle/ball/airspeed, hand-held GPS/EFIS, and hand-held navcom as back-ups, that should meet the minimum requirements for occasional IFR in a primarily VFR plane. (I just don't want to be completely grounded for days by a persistent fog bank somewhere.) Phil Raker N556P - HDS/Stratus ~80% complete; considering IP alternatives >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca > > I am the stage where I need to purchase instruments and avionics. I >have received quotes from several suppliers and by far Aircraft Spruce >has given me the best deal. I am leaning towards Non TSO'd instruments. >I was wondering how many builders are actually putting Non TSO'd >instruments in their panels. As you probably already know, they can be >1/2 the price of a TSO instrument. Gulf Avionics did mention to me that >most Non TSO'd instruments are built in China and therefor the quality >is not that great (example Falcon instruments). > So far I plan for (Altimeter, VSI, ASI, Turn Coordinator, >Directional Gyro (Vacuum), Artificial Horizon (Vacuum), GPS Garmin 196, >Vertical Card Compass, IC COM and an Grand Rapids EIS). Any input >regarding on the TSO vs Non TSO would be appreciated. > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:43 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: Checkout the alternative to traditional instruments at www.DynnonAvionics.com Their EFIS-D10 is an economical ($2,000) answer to the glass cockpit. I just installed one in my 701 to replace some of the made in china (falcon) instruments that were unreliable and a less than adequate warranty. So far I am Pleased with the performance. Flying Czech Airworks 701 from Skyshop GREAT at 73 I did not think I could Complete building and still live long enough to fly<:-) Ken Buchmann
Checkout the alternative to traditional instruments at www.DynnonAvionics.com Their EFIS-D10 is an economical ($2,000) answer to the glass cockpit. I just installed one in my 701 to replace some of the made in china (falcon) instruments that were unreliable and a less than adequate warranty. So far I am Pleased with the performance.
Flying Czech Airworks 701 from Skyshop GREAT at 73 I did not think I could Complete building and still live long enough to fly<:-)
Ken Buchmann
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:29 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrumentation --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Dont take chances, our planes are not airliners or airtaxis, if weather is bad or the ceiling is low or foggy, fly the next day, remember "the funeral of a pilot that crashed in bad weather is always in a sunny day" Saludos Gary Gower do not archive. --- Phil Raker wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker > > Hello, Alex, > Have you considered the Grand Rapids "Horizon EFIS" instead of > all the > instruments? That could be especially good since you list GRT's EIS > for engine > data. The GRT EFIS has all the gyro stuff you list and more for > about the same > money as the non-TSO instruments, and probably better reliability > than TSO, > with no troublesome vacuum pump or ice-prone venturi. > Does anyone on the list know whether a DAR will certify a plane > with the > GRT EFIS for nighttime & IFR flight? As I understand it, the only > requirement > is to have sufficient instrumentation and avionics to control the > plane and to > make safe use of the system, and that no single-point failure can > disable the > ability to do so. With needle/ball/airspeed, hand-held GPS/EFIS, and > hand-held > navcom as back-ups, that should meet the minimum requirements for > occasional > IFR in a primarily VFR plane. (I just don't want to be completely > grounded for > days by a persistent fog bank somewhere.) > > Phil Raker N556P - HDS/Stratus ~80% complete; considering IP > alternatives > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca > > > > > I am the stage where I need to purchase instruments and > avionics. I > >have received quotes from several suppliers and by far Aircraft > Spruce > >has given me the best deal. I am leaning towards Non TSO'd > instruments. > >I was wondering how many builders are actually putting Non TSO'd > >instruments in their panels. As you probably already know, they can > be > >1/2 the price of a TSO instrument. Gulf Avionics did mention to me > that > >most Non TSO'd instruments are built in China and therefor the > quality > >is not that great (example Falcon instruments). > > So far I plan for (Altimeter, VSI, ASI, Turn Coordinator, > >Directional Gyro (Vacuum), Artificial Horizon (Vacuum), GPS Garmin > 196, > >Vertical Card Compass, IC COM and an Grand Rapids EIS). Any input > >regarding on the TSO vs Non TSO would be appreciated. > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:30 AM PST US From: "F. Wolsink" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: "F. Wolsink" --=======45805AC4======= At 16:26 03-10-2003, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: >Checkout the alternative to traditional instruments at >www.DynnonAvionics.com http://www.dynonavionics.com/ (without the double n) Frank http://www.mijnvliegtuig.tk -- Frank Wolsink Thought for today: Computers are machines to help you solve problems you wouldn't have if you didn't have a computer. http://www.xs4all.nl/~fwolsink/ --=======45805AC4=======-- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:40 AM PST US From: "Dave Pepper" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: TSO'd Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" I'm installing mostly non TSO's digital instruments for VFR flying only. EMS engine monitor by MGL Avionics; Taskem digital encoding altimeter; considering accelerometer-based electronic attitude indicator and compass; Microair 760 and transponder. I'm staying away from old technology analog instruments and vacuum sytems. Dave Pepper C-ICDO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alejandro Roca" Subject: Zenith-List: TSO'd Instruments > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca > > > I am the stage where I need to purchase instruments and avionics. I > have received quotes from several suppliers and by far Aircraft Spruce > has given me the best deal. I am leaning towards Non TSO'd instruments. > I was wondering how many builders are actually putting Non TSO'd > instruments in their panels. As you probably already know, they can be > 1/2 the price of a TSO instrument. Gulf Avionics did mention to me that > most Non TSO'd instruments are built in China and therefor the quality > is not that great (example Falcon instruments). > > So far I plan for (Altimeter, VSI, ASI, Turn Coordinator, > Directional Gyro (Vacuum), Artificial Horizon (Vacuum), GPS Garmin 196, > Vertical Card Compass, IC COM and an Grand Rapids EIS). Any input > regarding on the TSO vs Non TSO would be appreciated. > > Alex Roca > CH601-XL > Fuselage 90% complete > San Antonio, TX > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Rotating Beacon From: charles.long@gm.com 10/03/2003 02:24:46 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com Quick question for the list. Is a Rotating Beacon required for night flight if your aircraft is already equiped with dual wing tip strobes? thanks Chuck Long HDS, airframe complete! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:02 AM PST US From: "Ed Kramer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotating Beacon --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > Quick question for the list. Is a Rotating Beacon required for > night flight if your aircraft is already equiped with dual wing tip > strobes? Chuck, Strobes can replace the rotating beacon. Ed Kramer West Seneca, NY CH 701 edair701@adelphia.net Build Status: Rudder completed Left wing complete Right wing 98% ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:58 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Those are good numbers. I'm going to try and seal off the coolant rad a bit more too. I'm losing air in the gap between the cowl and the rad. I learned from Zenith that the 601XL cowling has been changed to place the oil cooler under the coolant rad. They've added a large new scoop that feeds this in the bottom center of the cowl. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thilo Kind Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi folks, I see maximum oil temps of 230F. Normally they are around 200 F, depending somewhat on the type of oil I use. CHT is around 115 F. Coolant is 200 F during climb out and 145 F during cruise. This is a 912 with the water rad inside the cowling. Later Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > Paul, > > Thanks a lot for the advice. Do you have a picture of your oil cooler > installation? > > I'm beginning to wonder if there might be a mismatch between the VDO > sender on the 912S and the Mitchell gauge I have. Mitchell says they > should match, but I'm not sure. I'm going to tie an ohmmeter in to see > what values the sender is sending. > > It seems that the difference between CHT (185) and Oil (260) is very > high. Did you ever see that kind of differential? > > Frank > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul > Sharpe > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Sharpe" > > Frank, > > Congratulations on your first flight. > > I had similar temps on the first flight of my 912S powered 601HD. > Thinking I needed more air inlet to the oil cooler I enlarged the > opening, but had little improvement. What it needed was more outlet, > to an area of reduced pressure; so I had to create some ducting from > the oil cooler outlet to the opening at the bottom of the cowl. Vast > improvement. I then also made a rubber seal and installed it around > the oil cooler on the inlet side so that all of the air coming into > the duct has to go through the cooler, not around it. Pressure > differential - high pressure on the inlet side, low pressure on the > outlet side - is what makes the oil cooler effective. > > With outside temperatures of 30C(86F) I see oil temps of 245F; with > outside temp of 20C(68F)oil is about 190F. Cooler OATs mean I have to > block off part of the oil cooler inlet. > > Regards, > Paul Sharpe, > Guelph, ON, Canada > C-IABP / CH601HD / R912S > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Jones" > > > > Listers. I just completed the first flight of 601XL C-GYXQ today. > > the oil temp was getting close to max on the 912S even though it > wasn't a warm day and I > > wasn't maxing out the RPM by any means. > > > > Can anyone offer typical temperature ranges for the 912S that you > > are experiencing? > > > == > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > == > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > == > == > > == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report == == ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:32 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: TSO'd Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" I am leaning towards Non TSO'd instruments. > If you're not planning on IFR why not go with non-TSO'd? You can break one, replace it and still be further ahead. Gulf Avionics did mention to me that most Non TSO'd instruments are built in China and therefor the quality is not that great (example Falcon instruments). > I'm not sure that Chinese made means they are of inferior quality in this case. From what I can tell the Falcon instruments are of good quality. So far I plan for (Altimeter, VSI, ASI, Turn Coordinator, Directional Gyro (Vacuum), Artificial Horizon (Vacuum), GPS Garmin 196, Vertical Card Compass, IC COM and an Grand Rapids EIS). Any input regarding on the TSO vs Non TSO would be appreciated. > I'd go with an electric gyro over the vacuum given the choice. Frank Jones C-GYXQ CH601-XL 912S Ottawa, ON ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:03 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Power the instrument, wire the sensor (don't forget to provide a ground from the sensor back to the instrument), and hang the sensor in a can/pot of boiling water. I did this to verify my temperature related instruments and it worked great. Look for 212 deg F, or 100 deg C. This helped to build my confidence in what the instruments were telling me. I thought mine were high too; they weren't. Jim Weston McDonough, Ga. -----Original Message----- From: Thilo Kind [mailto:thilo.kind@gmx.net] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi folks, I see maximum oil temps of 230F. Normally they are around 200 F, depending somewhat on the type of oil I use. CHT is around 115 F. Coolant is 200 F during climb out and 145 F during cruise. This is a 912 with the water rad inside the cowling. Later Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > Paul, > > Thanks a lot for the advice. Do you have a picture of your oil cooler > installation? > > I'm beginning to wonder if there might be a mismatch between the VDO > sender on the 912S and the Mitchell gauge I have. Mitchell says they > should match, but I'm not sure. I'm going to tie an ohmmeter in to see > what values the sender is sending. > > It seems that the difference between CHT (185) and Oil (260) is very > high. Did you ever see that kind of differential? > > Frank > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul > Sharpe > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight 912S Oil Heat > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Sharpe" > > Frank, > > Congratulations on your first flight. > > I had similar temps on the first flight of my 912S powered 601HD. > Thinking I needed more air inlet to the oil cooler I enlarged the > opening, but had little improvement. What it needed was more outlet, > to an area of reduced pressure; so I had to create some ducting from > the oil cooler outlet to the opening at the bottom of the cowl. Vast > improvement. I then also made a rubber seal and installed it around > the oil cooler on the inlet side so that all of the air coming into > the duct has to go through the cooler, not around it. Pressure > differential - high pressure on the inlet side, low pressure on the > outlet side - is what makes the oil cooler effective. > > With outside temperatures of 30C(86F) I see oil temps of 245F; with > outside temp of 20C(68F)oil is about 190F. Cooler OATs mean I have to > block off part of the oil cooler inlet. > > Regards, > Paul Sharpe, > Guelph, ON, Canada > C-IABP / CH601HD / R912S > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Jones" > > > > Listers. I just completed the first flight of 601XL C-GYXQ today. > > the oil temp was getting close to max on the 912S even though it > wasn't a warm day and I > > wasn't maxing out the RPM by any means. > > > > Can anyone offer typical temperature ranges for the 912S that you > > are experiencing? > > > == > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > == > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > == > == > > == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report == == ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instruments From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau Is anyone actually flying with this unit yet? How much $$$ -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > From: "F. Wolsink" > Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 17:10:02 +0200 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instruments > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "F. Wolsink" > > --=======45805AC4======= > > At 16:26 03-10-2003, you wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: >> Checkout the alternative to traditional instruments at >> www.DynnonAvionics.com > > > > http://www.dynonavionics.com/ (without the double n) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: re: Pega Stol Wings From: "Kresent O. Gurtler" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kresent O. Gurtler" I have received and unpacked the pegastol wings for my 701. The parts are spectacular and everything is ready to cleco with pilot holes throughout. The strut assemblies are also streamlined and very nice. I have only unpacked the kit and put the parts on the shelf as I am currently finishing my right wing on a 601 XL. They also have included an example of some of the more elaborate components so you can build the rest from the model. The slat jig itself if a sub kit that is ready for jigging up the leading edge slats and It appears to be a real time saver as well as a precision jig. 4 fuel tanks were also part of my kit. Just looking at the finish of the parts makes me think the entire wing assembly will take less than 1/2 the time that my 601XL wings will take. Kresent Gurtler 601XL, empenage, flaps,ailerons, right wing 701 STOL empenage on shelf, Pega STOL wings on shelf waiting for the 601 to fly away ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:27 PM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question (CO) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" If you have a crack in the block or head, a compression check may not show the problem. You can buy a kit at NAPA to check for carbon monoxide in the coolant. A service station or mechanic should have an instrument to put on in place of the radiator cap that will indicate carbon monoxide in the cooling system. These tests will tell you if combustion gases are escaping into the cooling system. >From: "Bill Howerton" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question >Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:50:54 -0600 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" > >Have you done a compression check to see if you have a cracked head gasket? >For that matter, have you checked your oil to see if you have antifreeze in >it, or you radiator fluid for oil? > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:44 PM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Grant, I have installed three in three different aircraft. Flown behind one in some low visibly and rain, like it a lot. $2300.00 Dynon ALSO is the blind encoder for the transponder. I highly recommend it! Sincerely, Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 noel@blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Grant Corriveau Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau Is anyone actually flying with this unit yet? How much $$$ -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > From: "F. Wolsink" > Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 17:10:02 +0200 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instruments > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "F. Wolsink" > > --=======45805AC4======= > > At 16:26 03-10-2003, you wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: >> Checkout the alternative to traditional instruments at >> www.DynnonAvionics.com > > > > http://www.dynonavionics.com/ (without the double n) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:44 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotating Beacon --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Short answer... No ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: Rotating Beacon > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > Quick question for the list. Is a Rotating Beacon required for > night flight if your aircraft is already equiped with dual wing tip > strobes? > > thanks > Chuck Long > HDS, airframe complete! > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:51 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Instruments From: "Pieper_Frank" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pieper_Frank" UnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribe > ---------- > From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons > Reply To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, October 3, 2003 3:01 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Instruments > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" > > Grant, > > I have installed three in three different aircraft. Flown behind one in > some low visibly and rain, like it a lot. $2300.00 > > Dynon ALSO is the blind encoder for the transponder. > > I highly recommend it! > > Sincerely, > > Noel Simmons > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. > Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 > noel@blueskyaviation.net > www.blueskyaviation.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Grant > Corriveau > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instruments > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > Is anyone actually flying with this unit yet? How much $$$ > > -- > Grant Corriveau > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > > > From: "F. Wolsink" > > Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 17:10:02 +0200 > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instruments > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "F. Wolsink" > > > > --=======45805AC4======= > > > > At 16:26 03-10-2003, you wrote: > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: > >> Checkout the alternative to traditional instruments at > >> www.DynnonAvionics.com > > > > > > > > http://www.dynonavionics.com/ (without the double n) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:59 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rotating Beacon From: "Pieper_Frank" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pieper_Frank" UnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribe > ---------- > From: Cy Galley > Reply To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, October 3, 2003 3:49 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotating Beacon > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > Short answer... No > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Rotating Beacon > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > > > Quick question for the list. Is a Rotating Beacon required for > > night flight if your aircraft is already equiped with dual wing tip > > strobes? > > > > thanks > > Chuck Long > > HDS, airframe complete! > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:12 PM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Zenith-List: Chat room and BBS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" I set up a chat room and a BBS on my hog-air site. I put a 601 board a 701 board and some others. Please feel free to use them as much as you want. You can talk to people in real time. The address is http://www.hog-air.com/message.htm I am not sure if you can do that here. I am also not real sure how this system works. Could someone please tell me is there a place where you put stuff straight on the board or is it all by e-mail and behind a day? This is where I always go. http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith- List.2003- 10-01.html and I just change the date. Is that right? I can't find any way to get to the board from the home page. Let me know what you think. Thanks Brett Ray Hog-Air.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:17 PM PST US From: "John Ruddock" Subject: Zenith-List: "Sport Aviation" mags --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Ruddock" Ebay Listing details Item name: "Sport Aviation" Collection, 1974-1982 Item number: 3555276161 Listing format: Auction Main category: Books:Magazines & Catalogs:Magazine Back Issues:Antiques & Collectibles ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:23 PM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off topic engine cooling question (CO) Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:03:07 -0400 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" >If you have a crack in the block or head, a compression check may not show the problem. Since this is not a matronics car faults-list, would the next person responding PLEASE add "DO NOT ARCHIVE" to the post. The List Guidelines came out today, take a moment to read them.
>If you have a crack in the block or head, a compression check may not show
the problem. 
 
Since this is not a matronics car faults-list, would the next person responding PLEASE add "DO NOT ARCHIVE" to the post.
 
The List Guidelines came out today, take a moment to read them.
 





 
________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:41 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Chat room and BBS --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle To get the real-time posts on the web of the Zenith-List messages, just click here: http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list This page is updated every 30 minutes with the latest email posts to the Zenith List. The Digests, on the other hand, are behind by one day because they contain all of the previous day's posts rolled up into one. These links, and links to the Search Engine, Archives, and Photoshare can always be found at the bottom of each message posted to the list. Just click on the link and you're there! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. At 04:53 PM 10/3/2003 Friday, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" > > > I set up a chat room and a BBS on my hog-air site. I put a 601 board >a 701 board and some others. Please feel free to use them as much as >you want. You can talk to people in real time. The address is >http://www.hog-air.com/message.htm I am not sure if you can do that >here. I am also not real sure how this system works. Could someone >please tell me is there a place where you put stuff straight on the >board or is it all by e-mail and behind a day? This is where I always >go. http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith- >List.2003- 10-01.html and I just change the date. Is that right? I >can't find any way to get to the board from the home page. > >Let me know what you think. > Thanks > Brett Ray > Hog-Air.com > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:54 PM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: Lighting requirements Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:27:25 -0400 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" >Quick question for the list. Is a Rotating Beacon required for night flight if your aircraft is already equiped with dual wing tip strobes? Not only is the ACS catalogue a great wish book, it's a great source of information about things that creep into the new builder's file of concerns. In the catalogue you can find quite a bit about lighting requirements on the page in the "EL" section that introduces the lighting equipment ACS carries. The Bingelis books are another source. tailwinds jeff
>Quick question for the list.  Is a Rotating  Beacon required for
night flight if your aircraft is already equiped with dual wing tip
strobes?
 
Not only is the ACS catalogue a great wish book, it's a great source of information about things that creep into the new builder's file of concerns.
 
In the catalogue you can find quite a bit about lighting requirements on the page in the "EL" section that introduces the lighting equipment ACS carries.
 
The Bingelis books are another source.
 
tailwinds  jeff


________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:07 PM PST US From: Tim & Diane Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: TSO'd Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland Alejandro, While I don't have my plane in the air yet I have been researching the instrument issue and have bought some of my instruments. I can tell you that going to Oshkosh is the quickest way to make comparisons, I have spend several days in the last two years going from vendor to vendor asking questions and looking over equipment. For some background I have decided to go full electric IFR instrumentation. First there are others sources of non 'TSOed instruments other than Falcon, UMA instruments are made in Dayton Ohio, I have an airspeed indicator and a vertical speed indicator from them. I do have a turn coordinator and altimeter from Falcon, I haven't heard anything bad about them. I was looking at the Falcon electric attitude indicator and checked with several vendors, none of them had any at Oshkosh and they were uniform in there concern about reliability. I remembered the Dynon attitude indicator and went back for another look. I talked to the designer and looked over the spec.'s, I was impressed, I though about it that night and came back the next day with a sheet of questions. They were all answered to my satisfaction. I see from one of the others responders that they have had good results with this unit, which I find encouraging. Mind you this unit gives you attitude, altitude, airspeed corrected for altitude, magnetic compass, turn bank, and outputs that can be used for mode C transponder and attitude information that can be used for an autopilot. All for the price of an electric TSO'd attitude indicator. Lastly vertical card compass, I looked around a lot on these, beware there is a lot of junk out there. One vendor had a take full of boxes only labeled as made in China. They looked fine expect that when you changed direction, they didn't even with considerable shaking. I also when to the Falcon distributor and tried their vertical card compass, I turn east it still shows north. The final result was that I spend the extra money for the TSO'ed version of this instrument. It actually show the direction I facing. Regarding flying on IFR days, get you IFR rating it's a great excuse to fly a lot while working on it, and then you don't have to wait for tomorrow when the ceiling is low today Tim Shankland Alejandro Roca wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Alejandro Roca > > > I am the stage where I need to purchase instruments and avionics. I >have received quotes from several suppliers and by far Aircraft Spruce >has given me the best deal. I am leaning towards Non TSO'd instruments. >I was wondering how many builders are actually putting Non TSO'd >instruments in their panels. As you probably already know, they can be >1/2 the price of a TSO instrument. Gulf Avionics did mention to me that >most Non TSO'd instruments are built in China and therefor the quality >is not that great (example Falcon instruments). > > So far I plan for (Altimeter, VSI, ASI, Turn Coordinator, >Directional Gyro (Vacuum), Artificial Horizon (Vacuum), GPS Garmin 196, >Vertical Card Compass, IC COM and an Grand Rapids EIS). Any input >regarding on the TSO vs Non TSO would be appreciated. > >Alex Roca >CH601-XL >Fuselage 90% complete >San Antonio, TX > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:25 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap From: Brenton Battles --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" "Start from the middle in future and the excess will be pushed to the edges and disaappear." With all due respect to a great list contributor, Frank, may I pass on another perspective. When riveting my perfectly squared-up stabilizer, I too started from the middle and worked outwards thinking I'd stretch the skin out like a carpet layer. When I had finished I was horrified to find HUGE parallel bows in both spar rivet lines. To make a long story short, I removed all the rivets and pulled them all again, but this time in a very random fashion and the stabilizer took its proper shape. John, you may want to try this next time. Regards, Brent Battles N16BZ 601HD ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:15 PM PST US From: "nhulin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: TSO'd Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" At 07:24:45 PM PST US, Alejandro Roca wrote: I am the stage where I need to purchase instruments and avionics. I have received quotes from several suppliers... So far I plan for (Altimeter, VSI, ASI, Turn Coordinator, Directional Gyro (Vacuum), Artificial Horizon (Vacuum), GPS Garmin 196, Vertical Card Compass, IC COM and an Grand Rapids EIS). Any input regarding on the TSO vs Non TSO would be appreciated. Alex, I know you mention vacuum gauges but my wife and I did the math for an all electric panel and the electronic options come out looking pretty economical, not to mention more reliable (assumed), much lighter, and easier to install, when compared to an all electric gyro panel. If you were to consider the all electric options you might want to look at the MicroEncoder(~$1300), MicroMonitor (~$1200), SkyDat (~$650), Dynon (~$2000), and/or Grand Rapids Horizon-1 (~$6000). Using either the MicroEncoder, Dynon, or Horizon-1 you won't need an altitude encoder so you can save about $180 straight off. We have chapter members with the Dynon and it is reported as very good, even if a little bit limited on screen size. Since you have the Grand Rapid EIS listed you might want to seriously consider the Horizon-1 since you will get graphical engine monitoring when connected to the EIS, plus moving map when connected to a GPS head. With either the Dynon or Horizon-1 you won't need the card compass since they both have magnetic heading information. Both of these have alternate electrical inputs so only an internal failure will leave you without a compass but a handheld GPS will give you that information as well. You might also want to give thought to adding the VSI, Alt, and Airspeed options to the EIS since it works out a touch cheaper than conventional gauges. There are other options but these are the ones I know about and have investigated at least a little bit. It has been a while since I looked into all of this so I may have some of the functionality mixed up. I know that the MicroEncoder and SkyDat don't cover the AI & DG but I think that they cover the Alt, VSI, and airspeed. The MicroMonitor could be an alternative for the EIS. Here is my line-up: EIS-6000 w/Airspeed, Alt, VSI, Carb temp, Amps, Fuel Pressure, Fuel Flow ($1800) Horizon-1 (Manufacturing slot #49 ~$6000) MicroAir 760 Comm ($650) Garmin 320A xpndr ($1150) Ameri-King ELT ($150) Antennas, connectors, cables, air pipe and fittings, etc ~$100 I have everything except the Horizon-1 which isn't shipping yet. I might add a cheap Electric TC, but then again I may not. Tailwinds, ...neil Neil Hulin 601XL/Corvair - Fuselage and stuff ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:14 PM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Chat room and BBS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" Thanks! I put it in my favorites. Now even I can find it. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > To get the real-time posts on the web of the Zenith-List messages, just > click here: > > http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list > > This page is updated every 30 minutes with the latest email posts to the > Zenith List. > > The Digests, on the other hand, are behind by one day because they contain > all of the previous day's posts rolled up into one. > > These links, and links to the Search Engine, Archives, and Photoshare can > always be found at the bottom of each message posted to the list. Just > click on the link and you're there! > > Best regards, > > Matt Dralle > Email List Admin. > > > At 04:53 PM 10/3/2003 Friday, you wrote: > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" > > > > > > I set up a chat room and a BBS on my hog-air site. I put a 601 board > >a 701 board and some others. Please feel free to use them as much as > >you want. You can talk to people in real time. The address is > >http://www.hog-air.com/message.htm I am not sure if you can do that > >here. I am also not real sure how this system works. Could someone > >please tell me is there a place where you put stuff straight on the > >board or is it all by e-mail and behind a day? This is where I always > >go. http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith- > >List.2003- 10-01.html and I just change the date. Is that right? I > >can't find any way to get to the board from the home page. > > > >Let me know what you think. > > Thanks > > Brett Ray > > Hog-Air.com > > > > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > _- ======================================================================== > _- ======================================================================== report > _- ======================================================================== > _- ======================================================================== > > > > > > -- Thanks Brett Ray owner Hog Air ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:57 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instruments --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl Regarding the dynon. Check out the the matronics listserve rv group. There are a few flight experience reports with the unit. (search the matronics rv group archive) Joe 601XL - N633Z --> finishing wiring, canopy is next then final assembly + taxi! On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Grant Corriveau wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > Is anyone actually flying with this unit yet? How much $$$ > >