---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/06/03: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:38 AM - Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL (Gig) 2. 07:30 AM - Re: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL (Carlos Sa) 3. 07:57 AM - Re: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap (John Scott) 4. 08:14 AM - Re: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap (Carlos Sa) 5. 09:28 AM - Re: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap (George Swinford) 6. 09:33 AM - Dynon--follow up to my previous email (Bob Miller) 7. 09:53 AM - 601XL Hat Stiffeners (Kafka, Jeff) 8. 10:17 AM - Re: Flight Testing progress update (TOMGILES@aol.com) 9. 10:26 AM - Re: Dynon--follow up to my previous email (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 10. 01:07 PM - 701 Q (Flydog1966@aol.com) 11. 01:07 PM - Re: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL (Frank Jones) 12. 02:02 PM - Drilling holes for the motor mount (Greg.Sykes@smiths-aerospace.com) 13. 02:31 PM - 90% Complete HDS Project for Sale (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com) 14. 02:54 PM - Re: Flight Testing progress update (Grant Corriveau) 15. 05:31 PM - Re: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL (Larry McFarland) 16. 05:47 PM - Re: 701 Q (Bryan Martin) 17. 05:53 PM - Re: Drilling holes for the motor mount (Larry McFarland) 18. 05:54 PM - Painting 701 (Ronnie Koonce) 19. 06:23 PM - Re: Painting 701 (Jeff Paden) 20. 06:30 PM - Copperstate 2003 (Rick Pitcher) 21. 06:45 PM - 601 Early Flight Update (Frank Jones) 22. 08:12 PM - Re: 601 Early Flight Update (n282rs) 23. 08:17 PM - Re: Copperstate 2003 (n282rs) 24. 09:14 PM - Re: 701 AD's (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 25. 09:16 PM - Engine mounts (Dave Pepper) 26. 11:00 PM - Harley powered airplane (Brett Ray) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:59 AM PST US From: Gig Subject: Zenith-List: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig I've just about finished the right wing and the only thing I'm not happy with is the lack of seal at the front of the wing lockers. A photo is available at . I'm considering a rubber gasket that would go under the skins and over the hinges. Any other ideas or reasons that this wouldn't work? Gig Giacona www.peoamerica.net/N601WR 601XL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:36 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Gig, I didn't get there yet (I'm assembling the wing skeleton), but I intend to use a different kind of hinge with automotive rubber gasket. I want to be able to seal the locker (as in "watertight"). Pictures at this site ilustrate the hinge I'm talking about (Dan Checkoway's RV project): http://www.rvproject.com/20030920.html Carlos CH601-HD, plans. Tail done, wing spars done; assembling O/B wing skeletons. > I'm considering a rubber gasket that would go under the skins and over > the hinges. Any other ideas or reasons that this wouldn't work? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:55 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap From: "John Scott" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Scott" Thanks to all who replied. I especially appreciated all the clever suggestions for fixes. Here is the suggestion from I got from the tech support email address at Zenith: Try pushing the leading edge of the noserib up until it is tight against the skin. That should then provide a tight fight (even if the NR is not quite perpendicular to the spar). This is what I did and it worked well. The nose rib ended up only a few degrees off perpendicular. The discussion on drilling from the center of the skin outwards is interesting. The construction manual instructs this very thing and it is what I did. However, it seems to me that the fact that the nose skin is set at an angle means that as it is flattened by the clecos and "grows" towards the ends, it will also grow away from the tips of the ribs. In any case, I think my particular problem might have been avoided if I had used yet more duct tape, this time taping the open bottom end of the skin together to hold it tight against the sides of nose rib. I am still curious as to how others have dealt with this. --John Scott 601XL Rudder almost done ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:36 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hi, John I made the rudder around March 2002, and my notes are not very detailed. I can tell you that I used nylon straps to keep everything tight while I drilled. The end result was quite good I can't remember what I did to prevent the straps from slipping. Probably the wood spacers did the trick. I would guess that lots of very tight duct tape can do the trick as well. I would check that the skin is still in place after drilling each hole (with undersize bit). You can take a look at the it here: http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/carlossa/ Cheers Carlos > The discussion on drilling from the center of the skin outwards is interesting. The > construction manual instructs this very thing and it is what I did. However, it seems to me > that the fact that the nose skin is set at an angle means that as it is flattened by the clecos > and "grows" towards the ends, it will also grow away from the tips of the ribs. In any case, I > think my particular problem might have been avoided if I had used yet more duct tape, this time > taping the open bottom end of the skin together to hold it tight against the sides of nose rib. > I am still curious as to how others have dealt with this. > > --John Scott > 601XL > Rudder almost done > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:56 AM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" For what it's worth: I used duct tape to hold the stabilizer leading edge skin in place while drilling it. I ended up with a skin which did not follow the nose rib contour very well. My advice is to use straps and lengths of 2x2 lumber to pull the skin down and forget about duct tape. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Scott" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Rudder Leading Edge Skin to Ribs Gap > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Scott" > > Thanks to all who replied. I especially appreciated all the clever suggestions for fixes. > > Here is the suggestion from I got from the tech support email address at Zenith: > > Try pushing the leading edge of the noserib up until it is tight > against the skin. That should then provide a tight fight (even if > the NR is not quite perpendicular to the spar). > > This is what I did and it worked well. The nose rib ended up only a few degrees off perpendicular. > > The discussion on drilling from the center of the skin outwards is interesting. The construction manual instructs this very thing and it is what I did. However, it seems to me that the fact that the nose skin is set at an angle means that as it is flattened by the clecos and "grows" towards the ends, it will also grow away from the tips of the ribs. In any case, I think my particular problem might have been avoided if I had used yet more duct tape, this time taping the open bottom end of the skin together to hold it tight against the sides of nose rib. I am still curious as to how others have dealt with this. > > --John Scott > 601XL > Rudder almost done > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:50 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon--follow up to my previous email --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Sorry for firing off the previous email without thoroughly searching myself. I found the Dynon site. That is an awful lot of instrument for the money!!! I know you said you've put them in three different aircraft. How long have you been using this instrument? I'm really tempted, but sure would like to get some more reassurance. Thanks again, Bob Miller (still a real newbie!) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Hat Stiffeners From: "Kafka, Jeff" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kafka, Jeff" Is anyone aware of a technique to bend the hat stiffeners forming part of the Outboard Wing Spars using a leaf brake? Jeff Kafka 601XL Plans: Tail, Flaps and Ailerons ready for inspection. Working on parts for Wings. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:36 AM PST US From: TOMGILES@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight Testing progress update --> Zenith-List message posted by: TOMGILES@aol.com The 601 has a high lift wing. When you run up the engine it tries to fly so the main brakes won't grip the ground. The airplane can then "skip" along the ground at high RPM. The solution is to hold the stick fully aft during runups. This will hold the tail down and makes the brakes much more effective. Doing this I can get up to 4000 RPM with no problem. As an experiment keep the elevators neutral and slowly run up the engine. Have someone watching the elevators. They will rise several inches. Try it again with them in a "climb" position. Enlightening. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:31 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon--follow up to my previous email --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" I personally have about 20 hours. One of the owners of aircraft that I have done the plug and play panels for has many more and swears by the unit. For more in-depth talk about the Dynon go to the RV e-mail list of Matronics (sp?). These guys have done full aerobatics to test the unit. By the way if you ever do what these guys are doing you will not have any worries or wings. Dynon keeps up with spins, Cuban 8's, loops, and high g maneuvers. Sincerely, Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 noel@blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Miller Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon--follow up to my previous email --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Sorry for firing off the previous email without thoroughly searching myself. I found the Dynon site. That is an awful lot of instrument for the money!!! I know you said you've put them in three different aircraft. How long have you been using this instrument? I'm really tempted, but sure would like to get some more reassurance. Thanks again, Bob Miller (still a real newbie!) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:14 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Q --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com It looks like the nose wheel gear bearing 7F8-4,on a 701, goes under the floor 7F8-7, and on top of the central floor stiffner, 7F8-1. But this will make a .090" gap. Is this right? Should I use a .063 shim for the first aft rivet, then a .032 shim for the next, to step it down? What did you do? thanks Phil do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:14 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > I've just about finished the right wing and the only thing I'm not happy > with is the lack of seal at the front of the wing lockers. A photo is > available at . > I'm considering a rubber gasket that would go under the skins and over > the hinges. Any other ideas or reasons that this wouldn't work? I used .016 aluminum over the hinge. It limits the opening alot, but seals well. I would consider .016 aluminum without the hinge (kindof like the "hingeless ailerons"). Just leave lots of bend radius and don't open them too wide. Frank Jones C-GYXQ 601XL 912S ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:34 PM PST US From: Greg.Sykes@smiths-aerospace.com Subject: Zenith-List: Drilling holes for the motor mount --> Zenith-List message posted by: Greg.Sykes@smiths-aerospace.com I've been watching all the good advice on this list for quite some time. Now I have a question of my own. Please forgive me for not having the part numbers, I'm at work and don't have the plans with me. I'm working on the forward fuselage of my 601HDS. I want to make sure that the holes in the firewall for the motor mount line up with the mount itself. So I'm thinking I need to clamp the motor mount to the firewall (before the firewall is installed) and drill some pilot holes and then open them up to the required size. By doing this I'll be sure the 4 bolts actually fit! This has to be done in such a way that the bolts and associated welded brackets fit snugly with the longerons and floor/side skins. All this seems like it will be a bit of a challenge. I think the plans call for the holes to be about 16mm from the edge (from memory, I don't have the plans here). This seems like it is a plus something and minus not one bit type tolerance. If it is too close to the edge the bracket with the bolt welded in will interfere with the floor and side skin or the flange on the firewall. I've drilled some test holes in scrap material where I start with a small pilot hole the prescribed distance from the edge and then use a unibit to open it up to the required size. Because the tolerance is so tight my test holes are sometimes too close to the edge (major catastrophe if this happens on the real parts) or too far away (need more shims). The other approach is to drill the holes in the firewall and if they're a bit too close to the edge I can open them up just a bit. I don't believe the holes through the firewall are structural. I think it is the bracket that is bolted to the longerons that provide the structure. Is this true? Once the firewall is installed and attached to the longerons I "could" drill the motor mount. One problem is I don't know how to match drill 4 3/8 inch holes through thin metal. The 3/8 inch drill won't center in thin material. The other problem is that the hole in the firewall may not be a good reference. If it has to be opened up a bit I've lost the center of the hole so I can't use any bushing to align a pilot drill bit. In general this second approach seems like it is fraught with risk. Any low risk suggestions/techniques on how to get all these pieces to line up would be appreciated. Thanks, Greg ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:26 PM PST US From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: 90% Complete HDS Project for Sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: -------------------------------1065475845 Hi List, This decision has been very (very) difficult for me to come to, but financial reality is forcing me to part with my project when I am very close to completion. I am offering for sale my 601HDS Tricycle gear kit which is at a 90% completion status. There is still plenty to do for someone who wants the taste of building but might not want to build a complete project. Fuselage 100% Complete Tail Feathers 100% Complete and on air frame square with 0 twist.. Wings, 100% Complete with wing lockers. Panel, 95% complete, wired and tested. All control cables professionally nico pressed and installed. Still to do: Canopy, the winglets that extend off of the back of the center wing, Interior, Paint, Details and cleanup on electrical. (Brakes need to be re-bled), install wings and coonect ailerons to bell crank assemblies. Equipment List: Standard 601HDS Kit. (construction technique on assembled parts is excellent) Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition, Engine with complete ZAC Firewall forward Kit, Engine mount(ed) and tested, runs smooth and True. Includes Cowling (cut installed and fitted) and warp drive 3 blade Prop. Wheel pants (all 3 wheels) installed. Avionics (FULL PANEL) Icom Radio 2 way Garmin GPS III with custom Mount Bendix King Transponder Taskem Digital Altimeter with Built in encoder for XPDR Electric Attitude Indicator Electric Turn Coordinator Panel Mounted Verticle Card Compass Vertical Speed Indicator 2 position Intercom MAC Grips with controls for Radio, and elevator trim (pre wired for Aileron trim, not installed yet) Air Speed Indicator Rocky Mountain Engine Information System installed and tested. Fuel Gauges All switches and fuses All critical instruments lighted with a dimmer 2 Davis Clark Headsets Capacitance Probes in Leading edge Wing Tanks and 8 gallon Header tank. Dual Battery system with Emergency Back up ELT Wing strobes and position lights (rudder light also) Taxi and landing light installed. Emergency radio backup. Just plug in a handheld and have instant outside ant, and inside electric (or back up battery) Redundant Fuel Delivery system with 4 fuel pumps (2 from wing tanks 2 on firewall). Heater core installed for cabin heat as well as addional cooling for engine. This plane could easily be completed in 2 or 3 months by someone who has the time to do the finishing touches. It breaks my heart to sell it but my family and fiscal responsibility must come first. If you are interested, or know someone who is please contact me off list at stevef@addedtouchembroidery.com Or on my cell at 602-628-7000. I can provide additional details, photos etc. I am asking $20K. The airframe and engine alone were more than $21,000 so this is like getting a free ($8K,worth of stuff) Panel! Workmanship is excellent and the airplane has been hangared 100% of the time it has been in the building process. It is a good deal with enough left to do still make someone very happy with the building process. I will not carry any paper so if you don't have the financing in place please don't call looking for crazy deals or financing. Transportation will be completely the buyers responsibility and discretion, however, if someone wishes to purchase without previewing the aircraft I will arrange for transportation on this end (Phoenix, Arizona Deer valley Airport). Thanks list, I hope someone is in the market. Sadly, Steve Freeman -------------------------------1065475845 tutf-8">
Hi List,
 
This decision has been very (very) difficult for me to come to, but fin= ancial reality is forcing me to part with my project when I am very close to= completion.  I am offering for sale my 601HDS Tricycle gear kit which=20= is at a 90% completion status.  There is still plenty to do for someone= who wants the taste of building but might not want to build a complete proj= ect.
 
Fuselage 100% Complete
Tail Feathers 100% Complete and on air frame square with 0 twist..
Wings, 100% Complete with wing lockers.
Panel, 95% complete, wired and tested.
 
All control cables professionally nico pressed and installed.
 
Still to do: Canopy, the winglets that extend off of the back of t= he center wing, Interior, Paint, Details and cleanup on electrical. (Br= akes need to be re-bled), install wings and coonect ailerons to bell crank a= ssemblies.
 
Equipment List:
 
Standard 601HDS Kit.  (construction technique on assembled parts i= s excellent)
Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition, Engine with complete ZAC Firewall forward=20= Kit, Engine mount(ed) and tested, runs smooth and True. Includes Cowling (cu= t installed and fitted) and warp drive 3 blade Prop.
 
Wheel pants (all 3 wheels) installed.
 
Avionics (FULL PANEL)
 
Icom Radio 2 way
Garmin GPS III with custom Mount
Bendix King Transponder
Taskem Digital Altimeter with Built in encoder for XPDR
Electric Attitude Indicator
Electric Turn Coordinator
Panel Mounted Verticle Card Compass
Vertical Speed Indicator
2 position Intercom
MAC Grips with controls for Radio, and elevator trim (pre wired for Ail= eron trim, not installed yet)
Air Speed Indicator
Rocky Mountain Engine Information System installed and tested.
Fuel Gauges
All switches and fuses
All critical instruments lighted with a dimmer
2 Davis Clark Headsets
Capacitance Probes in Leading edge Wing Tanks and 8 gallon Header tank.=
Dual Battery system with Emergency Back up
ELT
Wing strobes and position lights (rudder light also)
Taxi and landing light installed.
Emergency radio backup.  Just plug in a handheld and have instant=20= outside ant, and inside electric (or back up battery)
Redundant Fuel Delivery system with 4 fuel pumps (2 from wing tanks 2 o= n firewall).
 
Heater core installed for cabin heat as well as addional cooling for en= gine.
 
This plane could easily be completed in 2 or 3 months by someone who ha= s the time to do the finishing touches.  It breaks my heart to sell it=20= but my family and fiscal responsibility must come first.
 
If you are interested, or know someone who is please contact me off lis= t at stevef@addedtouchemb= roidery.com Or on my cell at 602-628-7000.  I can provide additiona= l details, photos etc. 
 
I am asking $20K.  The airframe and engine alone were more than $2= 1,000 so this is like getting a free ($8K,worth of stuff) Panel!  Workm= anship is excellent and the airplane has been hangared 100% of the time it h= as been in the building process.  It is a good deal with enough left to= do still make someone very happy with the building process. 
 
I will not carry any paper so if you don't have the financing in place=20= please don't call looking for crazy deals or financing.  Transportation= will be completely the buyers responsibility and discretion, however, if so= meone wishes to purchase without previewing the aircraft I will arrange for=20= transportation on this end (Phoenix, Arizona Deer valley Airport).
 
Thanks list, I hope someone is in the market.
 
Sadly,
 
Steve Freeman
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-------------------------------1065475845-- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flight Testing progress update From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau Try putting just the main gear off the edge of the pavement into the grass (dig a small hole if necessary)... before chocking the wheels. This not only gets better prop clearance (speaking trigear here of course) but also reduces the nose-down thrust vector. fwiw -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:15 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL > > > > I've just about finished the right wing and the only thing I'm not > happy > > with is the lack of seal at the front of the wing lockers. > Frank, I doubt that much water would enter during flight, if you flew in the rain, but while parked, the wing should be drained by the holes in the bottom of the wing. The question is probably more of what do you want to keep dry in there and approach that issue. Larry ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Q From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 10/6/03 4:06 PM, Flydog1966@aol.com at Flydog1966@aol.com wrote: > It looks like the nose wheel gear bearing 7F8-4,on a 701, goes under the > floor 7F8-7, and on top of the central floor stiffner, 7F8-1. But this will > make a .090" > gap. Is this right? If it's anything like the nose gear on the 601, the bearing should go under the center stiffener, not on top. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Working on electrical and interior. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:45 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drilling holes for the motor mount --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: Drilling holes for the motor mount > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Greg.Sykes@smiths-aerospace.com > I want to make sure that the > holes in the firewall for the motor mount line up with the mount itself. I don't believe the holes through the firewall are structural. I think it is the bracket that is bolted to > the longerons that provide the structure. Is this true? One problem is I don't know how to match drill 4 3/8 inch holes through thin metal. > The 3/8 inch drill won't center in thin material. > > Any low risk suggestions/techniques on how to get all these pieces to line up > would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Greg Greg, I assume you are a kit builder and the mount is Zenith made. I would make a template of plywood for the firewall. Mark off all relevant dimensions as if you were fabricating your firewall and get the hole positions from exacting dimensional effort. Then put the engine mount on the plywood to see if the holes line up. Never trust a dimension from ZAC if you need it to be accurate. Then, if the mount and the markings for the firewall agree, place your firewall on the template under the mount and use a 3/8" centering punch. This will get you accuracy for drilling and the preliminary transfer of the holes. I always assumed the clamping force of the mount to the longeron mount brackets was reinforced by the presence of the firewall as it acts as a positional stiffener with the side and bottom skins. A structural element that becomes more the sum of its assembed parts than just the firewall itself. You need to get these holes right on, so use clamps on the final firewall, plywood template and the mount to assure that these holes are drilled right. I'm a scratch builder and used .016 stainless but the principal is the same in either case. If you need images to visualize this, see the "firewall page" on my website and the template/form I used to make these parts. Hope this helps, Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:01 PM PST US From: "Ronnie Koonce" Subject: Zenith-List: Painting 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" Never thought I would see the day, but it is coming soon. Almost time to paint. Need the groups input. Not looking for a show plane. Just want to protect all the work. Am going to Corrosion-X. Everything I read says I will have to alodine first. What has been everyones experience? Would rather just scuff with scotchbrite, Clean really well, and use a self-etching primer. Will the paint not stick? Would really rather not paint, has anyone left theirs bare?
Never thought I would see the day, but it is coming soon. Almost time to paint. Need the groups input. Not looking for a show plane. Just want to protect all the work. Am going to Corrosion-X.
    Everything I read says I will have to alodine first. What has been everyones experience? Would rather just scuff with scotchbrite, Clean really well, and use a self-etching primer. Will the paint not stick? Would really rather not paint, has anyone left theirs bare? 
________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:03 PM PST US type="multipart/alternative"; From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Painting 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" --------------Boundary-00=_GA5DQL80000000000000 --------------Boundary-00=_GA5DLVC0000000000000 >> Everything I read says I will have to alodine first. What has been >> everyones experience? Would rather just scuff with scotchbrite, Clean >> really well, and use a self-etching primer. Will the paint not stick? >> Would really rather not paint, has anyone left theirs bare? This is just my opinion and what I do, however I think you will agree tha= t my way is MUCH easier and MUCH safer. I do NOT recommend that you use alodine, it is a very harsh chemical and must be used properly or you could end up with a bigger mess than you want to deal with. Here is what I do to prep for painting. First you want to get any dirt and oils off the surface to be painted. To do this is use dawn dish soap and warm water with a scotchbrite pad. Be SURE to use the GREEN pads not the red ones. The red ones will leave little flakes behind that will eventually react with the aluminum a= nd corrode. Then rinse with water and dry with clean cloth. The next step is not needed, but it makes me feel better so I do it. I use a product called prepsol, it is just a surface cleaner that you can= purchase at any automotive store. I simply wipe the surface with prepsol= until there is nothing being picked up by the cloth. Almost forgot to tell you, be sure to use rubber gloves during all the ab= ove so that you do not get oil from your fingers on the surface to be painted. You are now ready to prime and paint your aircraft with your choice of products. I hope this helps you and please remember that the above is only my opini= on of how to paint an aircraft. Jeff Paden owner Kennedy Airfield --------------Boundary-00=_GA5DLVC0000000000000 1">
>> Everything I read says I will have to alodine first. What h= as been
>> everyones experience? Would rather just scuff with sc= otchbrite, Clean
>> really well, and use a self-etching primer. Will the paint not stick?
>> Would really rather not paint, has anyone left theirs bare?

This is just my opinion and what I do, however I think you will agre= e that
my way is MUCH easier and MUCH safer.  I do NOT recommend that<= /DIV>
you use alodine, it is a very harsh chemical and must be used proper= ly
or you could end up with a bigger mess than you want to deal with.
 
Here is what I do to prep for painting.
 
First you want to get any dirt and oils off the surface to be painte= d.
To do this is use dawn dish soap and warm water with a scotchbrite p= ad.
Be SURE to use the GREEN pads not the red ones.  The red ones w= ill
leave little flakes behind that will eventually react with the alumi= num and corrode.
 
Then rinse with water and dry with clean cloth.
The next step is not needed, but it makes me feel better so I do it.=
I use a product called prepsol, it is just a surface cleaner that yo= u can
purchase at any automotive store.  I simply wipe the surface wi= th prepsol
until there is nothing being picked up by the cloth.
 
Almost forgot to tell you, be sure to use rubber gloves during all t= he above so that
you do not get oil from your fingers on the surface to be painted.
 
You are now ready to prime and paint your aircraft with your choice of products.
 
I hope this helps you and please remember that the above is only my opinion of how
to paint an aircraft.
 
Jeff Paden
owner
Kennedy Airfield
 

 
--------------Boundary-00=_GA5DLVC0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_GA5DQL80000000000000 name="BackGrnd.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAAHgAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAQMA EAMCAwYAAAHbAAAC1gAABZX/2wCEABALCwsMCxAMDBAXDw0PFxsUEBAUGx8XFxcXFx8eFxoaGhoX Hh4jJSclIx4vLzMzLy9AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEABEQ8PERMRFRISFRQRFBEUGhQWFhQaJhoaHBoa JjAjHh4eHiMwKy4nJycuKzU1MDA1NUBAP0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQP/CABEIAGUAcwMBIgACEQEDEQH/ xACAAAEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIGAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARABAAICAwEAAgMAAAAA AAAAAQARIQIxQRIiQDIQMFARAAICAgIBBAIDAQEAAAAAAAERACExQVFhcYGRobECEsHhMtHxEgEA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQ/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAAADtRZYE1ASghQFgUZoCkKSwLmhcllAEqkSkqFAl hUomoAS3IoJqFlDNpFEAQFE1AIVYAWIVKAJRNZpYCwVmmshKACA0CBAUCBYGwf/aAAgBAgABBQD8 B/yP/9oACAEDAAEFAPz6/or8H//aAAgBAQABBQC2+ZeHjbD+saX6hwXeDW1Rg4xLLTa+m7ZiIEsI 1MTiHP1dYpvFADiFM1/X6nq9byuwdPPz5oFofWlEMQ9ULKrWq2ppG9Y2J6INQma9lVTRdlUKgHzX XSEECw1SYu5WsGoJPkisZYpx31GvXZQ/JM3VwShzVTsp1EZbBI8LcaUSih86+s2Zl4Wp6+lAZnVs Dkjdku5m+lJTdXDG2SHM9M2wKX1YxsaZTTwmoVrYnqsMrM652yjs01K0mtbGAz6Y5dpfqNz06qpq 5QNjiIjiZtbhtceNuf0jyeqGgu6rXMvI4omPWbPMYzEfMI+axHnFvOP4/9oACAECAgY/AGP/2gAI AQMCBj8AY//aAAgBAQEGPwB72Yucb1BfIhFEaeZ+xRXFQELN+HEUQdjU0Xn4g9gRCQcpw1yajGYs P/kFvUzvjUBWrIMFHI2OJQNEAjiEEFdTmfG/MTHq5RFOnpTV3kzCBx7x4YOD1AV5uYJvnqMA0hep jfwpYCwC4Bx3q55zeZRBCw9TkoIuHw78RdczSNH2mgqcLpRC+RASAkA3B13mcYd5mR84c/yOx4lW tRAZ6mGDhiP9WgXVyhWA+xDgMOWGMsTg/wBTz8SjjXrP8hHIlX1MZ6mDzgc/cIV/iyN1GBR0MQMK jnEzvvMz8mUkErKlfqU63iV+IKNH7mNZBLFQEpEDeDOV32IVn8WR4caoywqI2p695mbZzNUQIcKf k0bo+0NpCqn7CiQiNGXkdQen1DpjGeZ7WNw3pK+I93maCPc16+Zkf6XxMCsFwAkaiIB57vc/IAhZ /HqZBBbB0ZokAEOGxsYqBgPp8agQBu4VSMJdqx6SwDsGBrTmAR93uZGX6KePowEADAIjoX8gw459 CICaW/MLGvodQfkDW71zBxRHtB3j3jC4PMIYoAgKNfPMCQNN7jCzvlzXPopzhQvNZY3CRya9ZrEF fRE0iCB5mscZuVYfKmAi94uE3Q8qfytQ7xD0svmFcmaxNPI8iMjh3pmF2HbzqeUi+YkiD/MrOl5L mbwPuWVfmXpv3hDH8qAjPpiZHXkRnSd6ZhB53mejzKV6US0K9TCCLyCeIhtETX5MsHBGJkD/ANiF kMCE2qGoCdZ8Q8AMGpYFqEhdhRIYH3CF3d1M/Mexma+4CwdQ2Ddcx0exAlmj04QUQd8QWLB/iB5G xmEg5TENVZqPYzFV8eHAy9T/AEc8a4n3Ov6g/VwvE6lpQ4VNysXzhS8esOO8w/rlF/rypjV3B5H1 Knr8T//Z --------------Boundary-00=_GA5DQL80000000000000-- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:23 PM PST US From: Rick Pitcher Subject: Zenith-List: Copperstate 2003 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher Is anyone going to Copperstate this year? http://www.copperstate.org/airshow.htm The wife just told me she wanted to take the 5th wheel and go visit relatives in Arizona during the next couple weeks. Perfect timing for the airshow :) Sure would be nice to see a Zodie or two. Rick P. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:34 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Early Flight Update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" I just wanted to keep everyone abreast of the latest on C-GYXQ. So far 3.7 hours logged. In general it flys very well. Issues: 1) oil temp still at max on RPM any greater than 5000 for any length of time. I'm adding an extra duct to the oil cooler shroud and sealing the liquid cooler better. We'll see what that does. 2) Trim - requires more nose up trim. On analysis I have found that the horizontal stabilizer is leading edge up by about .5 to .8 degrees. I'm going to adjust this by doubling the rear attach plate and moving the rear attach bolts up 4mm or so. Has anyone had to change their H stab position before? Any clever ideas on how to accurately drill a new hole for this and maintain the strength of the attach plate? I don't want to drill out the attach rivets so that's why I'm thinking of simply doubling the top section of the plate and riveting that. Frank Jones C-GYXQ 601XL 912S Ottawa Message
I just wanted to keep everyone abreast of the latest on C-GYXQ. So far 3.7 hours logged. In general it flys very well. Issues: 1) oil temp still at max on RPM any greater than 5000 for any length of time. I'm adding an extra duct to the oil cooler shroud and sealing the liquid cooler better. We'll see what that does. 2) Trim - requires more nose up trim. On analysis I have found that the horizontal stabilizer is leading edge up by about .5 to .8 degrees. I'm going to adjust this by doubling the rear attach plate and moving the rear attach bolts up 4mm or so.
 
Has anyone had to change their H stab position before? Any clever ideas on how to accurately drill a new hole for this and maintain the strength of the attach plate? I don't want to drill out the attach rivets so that's why I'm thinking of simply doubling the top section of the plate and riveting that.
 
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601XL 912S
Ottawa
________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:15 PM PST US From: "n282rs" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Early Flight Update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n282rs" >2) Trim - requires more nose up >trim. On analysis I have found that the horizontal stabilizer is leading >edge up by about .5 to .8 degrees. I'm going to adjust this by doubling >the rear attach plate and moving the rear attach bolts up 4mm or so. Frank I'm seeing the same problem on mine. I can look over my shoulder in straight and level flight and see the trailing edge of the elevator sticking up about 1/2 inch or so. This is probably some of the drag I'm seeing. My problem is that I don't know if I'm using all of my trim because of my slow cruise (90-95 mph), or a slight misalignment of the horizontal stab. I'm going to work on trying to get my speed higher before I attempt adjusting the horizontal stab brackets. It's too bad there's not a way to adjust it in-flight, so you can get it exact. Be careful, this can be dangerous if you should go the wrong way or change it too much. Let me know how it works out. Randy Stout VW powered CH 601 HD n282rs@sbcglobal.net http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:18 PM PST US From: "n282rs" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Copperstate 2003 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n282rs" > > Is anyone going to Copperstate this year? > http://www.copperstate.org/airshow.htm I'm planning on stopping there on my way to Las Vegas. Should be there on Friday. Unfortunately, I'll be driving instead of flying. Randy Stout VW powered CH 601 HD n282rs@sbcglobal.net http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:55 PM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 AD's --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com J, From an FAA handout at Oshkosh, you might try the Transport Canada Civil Aviation - ADs web site http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/search.htm No guarantee, but Zenith AC should be monitored up there. Perhaps someone form Canada on the list would know? G Erickson, 701SP J,

From an FAA handout at Oshkosh, you might try the Transport Canada Civil= Aviation - ADs web site

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/search.htm

No guarantee, but Zenith AC should be monitored up there. Perhaps someon= e form Canada on the list would know?

G Erickson, 701SP ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:54 PM PST US From: "Dave Pepper" Subject: Zenith-List: Engine mounts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" I just took delivery of a Rotax 912S today. Amazing that such an expensive engine is packed in a cardboard box, and shipped without insurance by ZAC! I got lucky....no damage. Since I have no drawings illustrating engine installation, I was wondering what the size of the engine mounting bolts was, as well as which type of rubber isolation mounts are best for the 912S to minimize vibration. Also, the oil tank came without any type of bracket to attach it to the firewall. Does the builder need to manufacture his own bracket, or can one be ordered from a supplier? Also, has anyone installed the "Hot Box" for all electrical connections to the engine? The drawings allude to an "I-S Box".....I take it that this is the same thing as the "Hot Box." Thanks for the comments. Dave 601HD 90%
I just took delivery of a Rotax 912S today. Amazing that such an expensive engine is packed in a cardboard box, and shipped without insurance by ZAC! I got lucky....no damage.
 
Since I have no drawings illustrating engine installation, I was wondering what the size of the engine mounting bolts was, as well as which type of rubber isolation mounts are best for the 912S to minimize vibration. Also, the oil tank came without any type of bracket to attach it to the firewall. Does the builder need to manufacture his own bracket, or can one be ordered from a supplier? Also, has anyone installed  the "Hot Box" for all electrical connections to the engine? The drawings allude to an "I-S Box".....I take it that this is the same thing as the "Hot Box."
 
Thanks for the comments.
 
Dave
601HD  90%
 
 
________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:12 PM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Zenith-List: Harley powered airplane --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" I have some video of the Harley motor runing and buzzing around the front yard if anyone is interested you can see it here http://www.hog- air.com/video.htm . It is a few weeks old so I will put up some new stuff with it flying next week. Later Brett Ray Hog-Air.com