---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/07/03: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:18 AM - Re: painting 701 (Dabusmith@aol.com) 2. 03:56 AM - Re: 601 Early Flight Update (Frank Jones) 3. 04:06 AM - Re: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL (Grant Corriveau) 4. 04:13 AM - Re: Drilling holes for the motor mount (Grant Corriveau) 5. 04:33 AM - Re: 601 Early Flight Update (Grant Corriveau) 6. 05:53 AM - Re: Re: painting 701 (Scott Laughlin) 7. 08:01 AM - Re: Copperstate 2003 (Doug Waer) 8. 08:01 AM - Re: Copperstate 2003 (Doug Waer) 9. 10:48 AM - 912S (Dave Pepper) 10. 11:19 AM - Re: 601 Early Flight Update (Frank Jones) 11. 12:12 PM - 912S installation (Dave Alberti) 12. 06:39 PM - Re: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL (WAYNE BEATTIE) 13. 08:32 PM - Re: Copperstate 2003 (Rick Pitcher) 14. 08:39 PM - Re: 912S (Rick Pitcher) 15. 11:17 PM - enlogated elevator mount holes was--> Re: 601 Early (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:40 AM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: painting 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com >Almost time to paint. Need the groups input. Not looking for a show plane I painted my 701 in my gravel driveway. Even though it was too hot and windy it came out fine. My routine. ( I am an amateur) 1) Wash with laundry detergent and scotch bright wrapped in 280 grit sand paper. 2) Wash again with Alumaprep (etching acid) diluted with water and scotch bright. 3) Dry overnight. No trapped water. 4) Using wax and grease remover from the auto paint store, wipe the surface. Use a clean cloth to wipe it off before the solvent dries. ( I liked the blue paper towels for this) 5) Just before spraying, gently run a store bought tack cloth over the surface. If you paint outside, try to paint between 9-10. Before the bugs get out. If it is warm enough. The poly doesn't seem to be sensitive to humidity but it will blush if it gets cold I shuffled the painted parts quickly into the garage. Had hangers waiting. A diaphragm type regulator and water separator is needed. I used a 3m respirator. I used a $19 HPLV gun with the cup on top and a 115v 3HP 30gl compressor. I had to wait on the compressor quite a bit. The nice thing about the top cup is it will shoot the smallest amount of paint until it is completely empty. It is easy to clean up with much less solvent. Very little overspray also. The bad thing is the cup gets heavy when it is full. I used zinc chromate inside the wings and tail. I used epoxy inside the fuselage. I didn't know if the zinc chromate was safe to have inside the fuse. Outside I used epoxy primer and polyurethane top coat. Good luck Dave Smith N701XL 912S Waiting for airworthiness inspection Graham, WA. >Almost time to
paint. Need the groups input. Not looking for a show plane


I painted my 701 in my gravel driveway. Even though it was too hot and windy= it came out fine.

My routine. ( I am an amateur)

1) Wash with laundry detergent and scotch bright wrapped in 280 grit sand pa= per.

2) Wash again with Alumaprep (etching acid) diluted with water and scotch br= ight.

3) Dry overnight. No trapped water.

4) Using wax and grease remover from the auto paint store, wipe the surface.= Use a  
    clean cloth to wipe it off before the solvent dries. ( I=20= liked the blue paper towels for
    this)
5) Just before spraying, gently run a store bought tack cloth over the surfa= ce.

If you paint outside, try to paint between 9-10. Before the bugs get out. If= it is warm enough. The poly doesn't seem to be sensitive to humidity but it= will blush if it gets cold I shuffled the painted parts quickly into the ga= rage. Had hangers waiting.
A diaphragm type regulator and water separator is needed. I used a 3m respir= ator.
I used a $19 HPLV gun with the cup on top and a 115v 3HP 30gl compressor. I=20= had to wait on the compressor quite a bit. The nice thing about the top cup=20= is it will shoot the smallest amount of paint until it is completely empty.=20= It is easy to clean up with much less solvent. Very little overspray also. T= he bad thing is the cup gets heavy when it is full. I used zinc chromate ins= ide the wings and tail. I used epoxy inside the fuselage. I didn't know if t= he zinc chromate was safe to have inside the fuse. Outside I used epoxy prim= er and polyurethane top coat.
Good luck
Dave Smith
N701XL 912S  Waiting for airworthiness inspection
Graham, WA.
 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:13 AM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Early Flight Update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > My problem is that I don't know if I'm using all of my trim because of my slow cruise (90-95 mph), or a slight misalignment of the horizontal stab. Randy, I took pictures from both sides with my digital camera, being careful to align with the plane of the stabilizer. I then imported these into Visio and drew a line through the stabilizer and through the rivet line on the longeron. Visio shows you the angle of lines you draw, so I subtracted the two, and over the many photos I came up with a range of .5 to .8 degrees. Might be worth trying on yours just so you know. Frank ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau >... The question is probably more of what do you want to keep > dry in there and approach that issue. > Larry Sailing/Marine/Outdoor stores sell large sealable, heavy duty plastic bags designed to keep stuff dry on boats etc.... One of these would do the trick and probably save a lot of time. If the wing locker were actually water (i.e. also air?) tight, could there be other problems with condensation, humidity, expansion/contraction of air during rapid climb/descents, and the like? -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drilling holes for the motor mount From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > One problem is I don't know how to match drill 4 3/8 inch holes through thin > metal. >> The 3/8 inch drill won't center in thin material. > I found that the 'multi bit' or unibit (it has various names) was much easier to keep centered for drilling larger holes, than a conventional drill bit. It also ensured a rounder hole and not the 'triangle' that can result if a regular bit starts vibrating in the hole. Grant ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Early Flight Update From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau Frank, .5 to .8 doesn't sound like a big deal (how did you measure it so accurately??). I hope you don't mind if I suggest some things that you may have already considered and checked... Before you get into the structural job, are you certain it's necessary? Have you been able to observe the physical position of the elevator in flight? What are the symptoms that indicate you need more nose UP trim? (i.e. are you running out of UP authority on the elevator in cruise? Then there's definitely a problem -- but is it an elevator problem or a trim problem or a balance problem?... Or are you running out of UP trim at slow speed? In which case 'how slow?' -- you don't really want to be able to trim much below approach speed anyways). What is the physical location (angle) of the elevator in cruise? What is the physical location (angle) of the trim? How does this 'in cruise' trim point compare to the range you have available on the tab, and it's fullup vs. fulldown position? Have you double checked the aircraft Weight and balance envelope? fwiw, Grant > From: "Frank Jones" > Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:44:53 -0400 > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Early Flight Update > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > > I just wanted to keep everyone abreast of the latest on C-GYXQ. So far > 3.7 hours logged. In general it flys very well. Issues: 1) oil temp > still at max on RPM any greater than 5000 for any length of time. I'm > adding an extra duct to the oil cooler shroud and sealing the liquid > cooler better. We'll see what that does. 2) Trim - requires more nose up > trim. On analysis I have found that the horizontal stabilizer is leading > edge up by about .5 to .8 degrees. I'm going to adjust this by doubling > the rear attach plate and moving the rear attach bolts up 4mm or so. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:26 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: painting 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" One bit of advice I have not seen on the previous posts - wet the ground around your project to limit dust right before you paint. Especially on a gravel driveway! Even if you are in a garage, just wet the floor before you paint and you won't stir up any dust while walking around to paint. You can even wet the walls if you want to really eliminate dust. Also, try to manage your hose prior to painting. Dragging a hose across wet paint will ruin your day. Good luck, Scott Laughlin Z601XL/Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: painting 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com >Almost time to paint. Need the groups input. Not looking for a show plane I painted my 701 in my gravel driveway. Even though it was too hot and windy it came out fine. My routine. ( I am an amateur) 1) Wash with laundry detergent and scotch bright wrapped in 280 grit sand paper. 2) Wash again with Alumaprep (etching acid) diluted with water and scotch bright. 3) Dry overnight. No trapped water. 4) Using wax and grease remover from the auto paint store, wipe the surface. Use a clean cloth to wipe it off before the solvent dries. ( I liked the blue paper towels for this) 5) Just before spraying, gently run a store bought tack cloth over the surface. If you paint outside, try to paint between 9-10. Before the bugs get out. If it is warm enough. The poly doesn't seem to be sensitive to humidity but it will blush if it gets cold I shuffled the painted parts quickly into the garage. Had hangers waiting. A diaphragm type regulator and water separator is needed. I used a 3m respirator. I used a $19 HPLV gun with the cup on top and a 115v 3HP 30gl compressor. I had to wait on the compressor quite a bit. The nice thing about the top cup is it will shoot the smallest amount of paint until it is completely empty. It is easy to clean up with much less solvent. Very little overspray also. The bad thing is the cup gets heavy when it is full. I used zinc chromate inside the wings and tail. I used epoxy inside the fuselage. I didn't know if the zinc chromate was safe to have inside the fuse. Outside I used epoxy primer and polyurethane top coat. Good luck Dave Smith N701XL 912S Waiting for airworthiness inspection Graham, WA. >Almost time to
paint. Need the groups input. Not looking for a show plane


I painted my 701 in my gravel driveway. Even though it was too hot and windy= it came out fine.

My routine. ( I am an amateur)

1) Wash with laundry detergent and scotch bright wrapped in 280 grit sand pa= per.

2) Wash again with Alumaprep (etching acid) diluted with water and scotch br= ight.

3) Dry overnight. No trapped water.

4) Using wax and grease remover from the auto paint store, wipe the surface.= Use a  
    clean cloth to wipe it off before the solvent dries. ( I=20= liked the blue paper towels for
    this)
5) Just before spraying, gently run a store bought tack cloth over the surfa= ce.

If you paint outside, try to paint between 9-10. Before the bugs get out. If= it is warm enough. The poly doesn't seem to be sensitive to humidity but it= will blush if it gets cold I shuffled the painted parts quickly into the ga= rage. Had hangers waiting.
A diaphragm type regulator and water separator is needed. I used a 3m respir= ator.
I used a $19 HPLV gun with the cup on top and a 115v 3HP 30gl compressor. I=20= had to wait on the compressor quite a bit. The nice thing about the top cup=20= is it will shoot the smallest amount of paint until it is completely empty.=20= It is easy to clean up with much less solvent. Very little overspray also. T= he bad thing is the cup gets heavy when it is full. I used zinc chromate ins= ide the wings and tail. I used epoxy inside the fuselage. I didn't know if t= he zinc chromate was safe to have inside the fuse. Outside I used epoxy prim= er and polyurethane top coat.
Good luck
Dave Smith
N701XL 912S  Waiting for airworthiness inspection
Graham, WA.
 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:28 AM PST US From: Doug Waer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Copperstate 2003 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Doug Waer Ditto. I'll be attending but by car. I'll probably be there on saturday. Doug 601HDS --- n282rs wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n282rs" > > > > > > Is anyone going to Copperstate this year? > > http://www.copperstate.org/airshow.htm > > I'm planning on stopping there on my way to Las Vegas. Should be there on > Friday. Unfortunately, I'll be driving instead of flying. > > Randy Stout > VW powered CH 601 HD > n282rs@sbcglobal.net > http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html > do not archive > > > > > > ===== Douglas Waer :: Boeing Helicopter Systems :: Mesa, AZ :: 85215 http://members.cox.net/dwaer/flying.html __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:28 AM PST US From: Doug Waer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Copperstate 2003 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Doug Waer Ditto. I'll be attending, but by car. I'll probably be there on saturday. Doug 601HDS --- n282rs wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n282rs" > > > > > > Is anyone going to Copperstate this year? > > http://www.copperstate.org/airshow.htm > > I'm planning on stopping there on my way to Las Vegas. Should be there on > Friday. Unfortunately, I'll be driving instead of flying. > > Randy Stout > VW powered CH 601 HD > n282rs@sbcglobal.net > http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html > do not archive > > > > > > ===== Douglas Waer :: Boeing Helicopter Systems :: Mesa, AZ :: 85215 http://members.cox.net/dwaer/flying.html __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:32 AM PST US From: "Dave Pepper" Subject: Zenith-List: 912S --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" Upon reading the 912S installation manual, the engine is supposed to include a fuel manifold, with all fuel lines connected from the engine fuel pump through the manifold, to the carbs. My brand new engine has no such manifold or any fuel lines connected at all. It just has a fuel pump located on the gearbox, with plugs on the outlets! The manual states that an airbox and air filter is fitted to the engine.....My engine has no such airbox! There is also no installation bracket for the oil tank. The installation instructions are so incomplete and difficult to understand that I'm totally lost. For the outrageous price of almost $12,000, I can't believe that parts which are supposed to be included are completely missing. Are all these things extra? Does anyone have any comments about how to proceed with engine installation? Dave "Way Out of my League" Pepper 601HD 90%
Upon reading the 912S installation manual, the engine is supposed to include a fuel manifold, with all fuel lines connected from the engine fuel pump through the manifold, to the carbs. My brand new engine has no such manifold or any fuel lines connected at all. It just has a fuel pump located on the gearbox, with plugs on the outlets!
 
The manual states that an airbox and air filter is fitted to the engine.....My engine has no such airbox! There is also no installation bracket for the oil tank.
 
The installation instructions are so incomplete and difficult to understand that I'm totally lost. For the outrageous price of almost $12,000, I can't believe that parts which are supposed to be included are completely missing. Are all these things extra?
 
Does anyone have any comments about how to proceed with engine installation?
 
Dave "Way Out of my League"  Pepper
601HD 90%
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:17 AM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Early Flight Update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Grant, Thanks for the questions. > (how did you measure it so accurately??). I posted this earlier: I took pictures from both sides with my digital camera, being careful to align with the plane of the stabilizer. I then imported these into Visio and drew a line through the stabilizer and through the rivet line on the longeron. Visio shows you the angle of lines you draw, so I subtracted the two, and over the many photos I came up with a range of .5 to .8 degrees. > What are the symptoms that indicate you need more nose UP trim? I want to be able to fly the plane only with trim if necessary (ie. If a cable breaks). I'm finding I still need more nose up trim when the tab is max'd out in downward deflection. I haven't visually inspected the elevator in straight and level, but I believe it is clearly up a bit. > How does this 'in cruise' trim point compare to the range you have available on the tab, and it's fullup vs. fulldown position? In flight I set the tab to have balanced control for straight and level at normal cruise, and left it there until landing. Post landing inspection shows the tab substantially deflected down (not quite max but close). > Have you double checked the aircraft Weight and balance envelope? W&B is inside the envelope, pretty much in the middle. I believe the .5-.8 degree loft on the hstab is the main contributing factor. The change to the attach point is pretty easy really, just need to move the rear holes up 3.7mm. This will involve elongating the holes. I'll then use a stainless washer with a bent tab (kindof like on a bicycle wheel) to keep the bolt in position. Should be no need for a doubler. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:29 PM PST US From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: Zenith-List: 912S installation --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" Blank -----Original Message----- From: Dave Alberti [mailto:daberti@execpc.com] Subject: 912S Dave, I ordered the firewall forward package with my 912S from Zenith. It came complete with the airbox and exhaust system. I think they also included some fuel line and some T connectors. The fuel connection described in the manual is only used on the certificated version of the engine and has totally different connections to the carbs. I ran my lines from the gascolator to a auxiliary electric pump then to the rotax pump then a filter and finally a T to split to the individual carbs. They were all push on barb type connectors with hose clamps. One other thing, If you made the throttle to the plans it wont clear the 912S airbox. I extended mine about 2 inches to provide the clearance and it seems to work fine but I only have 4 hours (surgery on my foot is keeping me from flying). I can send you all kinds of photos if you like, but they are large files and will be slow to down load. Good luck proceeding Dave N8513Z 601-HD 912S Blank
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Alberti [mailto:daberti@execpc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:03 PM
To: rockinrimranch@earthlink.net
Subject: 912S

Dave,

I ordered the firewall forward package with my 912S from Zenith.  It came complete with the airbox and exhaust system. I think they also included some fuel line and some T connectors.  The fuel connection described in the manual is only used on the certificated version of the engine and has totally different connections to the carbs.  I ran my lines from the gascolator to a auxiliary electric pump then to the rotax pump then a filter and finally a T to split to the individual carbs.  They were all push on barb type connectors with hose clamps.  One other thing, If you made the throttle to the plans it wont clear the 912S airbox. I extended mine about 2 inches to provide the clearance and it seems to work fine but I only have 4 hours (surgery on my foot is keeping me from flying).  I can send you all kinds of photos if you like, but they are large files and will be slow to down load.

Good luck proceeding

Dave

N8513Z   601-HD 912S

name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:21 PM PST US From: WAYNE BEATTIE Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: WAYNE BEATTIE If your wing is painted white, you may try white electrical tape as found in Home Depot. All of the racers use it so it has been proven to hold at speed. I've had tape over mine parked outside for 5 months now and it is still solidly in place and no water has gotten into the lockers. Doesn't look to bad against the white background of the wing. Wayne N601WB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sealing Wing Lockers 601XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Gig, I didn't get there yet (I'm assembling the wing skeleton), but I intend to use a different > kind of hinge with automotive rubber gasket. I want to be able to seal the locker (as in > "watertight"). > > Pictures at this site ilustrate the hinge I'm talking about (Dan Checkoway's RV project): > http://www.rvproject.com/20030920.html > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans. > Tail done, wing spars done; assembling O/B wing skeletons. > > > I'm considering a rubber gasket that would go under the skins and over > > the hinges. Any other ideas or reasons that this wouldn't work? > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:50 PM PST US From: Rick Pitcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Copperstate 2003 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher No fly-ins so far huh? I see from the exhibitors list that Zenith is gonna be there. I hope they bring more that just pamphlets, I'd sure like to get a ride. Hmmmm..... maybe I'd better call 'em and see if I can reserve a time slot. Rick P. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:07 PM PST US From: Rick Pitcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher Dave Pepper wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" > > > Upon reading the 912S installation manual, the engine is supposed to > include a fuel manifold, with all fuel lines connected from the engine > fuel pump through the manifold, to the carbs. My brand new engine has no > such manifold or any fuel lines connected at all. It just has a fuel > pump located on the gearbox, with plugs on the outlets! > > The manual states that an airbox and air filter is fitted to the > engine.....My engine has no such airbox! There is also no installation > bracket for the oil tank. > > The installation instructions are so incomplete and difficult to > understand that I'm totally lost. For the outrageous price of almost > $12,000, I can't believe that parts which are supposed to be included > are completely missing. Are all these things extra? > > Does anyone have any comments about how to proceed with engine > installation? > > Dave "Way Out of my League" Pepper > 601HD 90% Did you try thr "builder's only section" on the ZAC website? They have a bunch of color photo assembly guides for the Rotax 912 and the Jabiru 3300 engine installations. They're in with the "XL" updates, but they apply to the "HD" too. Rick P. http://www.lightflyers.com/Wingmate.html ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:15 PM PST US From: xl Flight Update Subject: enlogated elevator mount holes was--> RE: Zenith-List: 601 Early Flight Update --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl I hope that you are joking. I am not an aeronautical engineer. I'm just a another stranger on the bus. I'm finishing up my 601XL (set back by a canopy crack). Enlongated holes are not good. Imagine the bolt moving up and down - and failing. Why can't you drill out the mount plate and rivet a longer one. I'm not real happy with the size of the mounts in the first place. I am trusting the designer and the 200+ planes flying. I would not weaken what is there in any case. enlongated holes .+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.shudder.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. My opinion, Joe On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Frank Jones wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > Grant, > .....snip ................snip > > The change to the attach point is pretty easy really, just need to move > the rear holes up 3.7mm. This will involve elongating the holes. I'll > then use a stainless washer with a bent tab (kindof like on a bicycle > wheel) to keep the bolt in position. Should be no need for a doubler. > >