Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:00 AM - Re: Crash 701- another one (Grant Corriveau)
2. 05:20 AM - Re: Crash 701- another one (CBFLESHREN@aol.com)
3. 06:14 AM - Crash 701 (Ronnie Koonce)
4. 07:15 AM - Carburetor Lever Springs (Brenton Battles)
5. 08:44 AM - 701 crash pics (Jon Croke)
6. 08:51 AM - Re: Zenith-701 - 10/25/03 (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
7. 12:45 PM - Mounting engine ()
8. 12:45 PM - Re: Crash 701- another one (Grant Corriveau)
9. 12:45 PM - Crash 701 (Ronnie Koonce)
10. 12:45 PM - Re: Crash 701- another one (Bob Reinero)
11. 12:45 PM - Re: 601XL (Larry McFarland)
12. 12:45 PM - Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? (Ed Kramer)
13. 12:45 PM - Carburetor Lever Springs (lehmansmtl@netzero.com)
14. 12:45 PM - Re: Crash 701- another one (CHUCK KELLY)
15. 12:45 PM - Re: cortec 374 primer (H. Robert Schoenberger)
16. 12:45 PM - Re: Zenith-701 - 10/25/03 (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
17. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Crash 701 "going off topic?" ()
18. 12:45 PM - Carburetor Lever Springs (Brenton Battles)
19. 12:45 PM - Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? (Dirk Slabbert)
20. 12:45 PM - 701 crash pics (Jon Croke)
21. 12:45 PM - Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? (CHUCK KELLY)
22. 12:45 PM - Question about the Savannah and the 701?? (Jo and Larry)
23. 12:45 PM - Re: 601XL (lnk@cis.net)
24. 12:45 PM - Re: My 601XL Homepage (caspainhower@aep.com)
25. 12:45 PM - Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? (Monty Graves)
26. 12:45 PM - 701 help (Flydog1966@aol.com)
27. 12:45 PM - Re: Crash 701- another one (CBFLESHREN@aol.com)
28. 12:45 PM - Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? (Hal Rozema)
29. 12:45 PM - Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? (caspainhower@aep.com)
30. 02:00 PM - Access panel screws (RURUNY@aol.com)
31. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Crash 701 "going off topic?" Super Cub. (Gary Gower)
32. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: Crash 701 "going off topic?" (Gary Gower)
33. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: Angle of attack (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701- another one |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> I decided to try a really
>> short takeoff, ie full flap (30 deg) and stick back.
Is this the recommended technique by Zenair for a short takeoff in the 701?
I've never heard of using full flap for this maneuver due to the high drag
and other complications.
Glad you're alive. Don't keep banging you head on the wall! You'll never
heal that way. ;-)
- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger -- or so I've heard...
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701- another one |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CBFLESHREN@aol.com
In a message dated 10/26/2003 8:01:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
grantc@ca.inter.net writes:
Is this the recommended technique by Zenair for a short takeoff in the 701?
I've never heard of using full flap for this maneuver due to the high drag
and other complications
I too am curious about this -just didn't get around to asking yet. Not
that I claim to have heard much- but I have never heard of any conventional
airplane that could claim a high lift vs. drag ratio w/ a 30 degree flap setting.
I've always thought airspeed is what I need to fly & can't understand how
intenionally applying all that drag could improve airspeed. I look fwd to being
enlightened. Chris
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
Thanks for sharing the details. I had seriously considered doing the same thing!
Glad your O.K..
Message 4
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| Subject: | Carburetor Lever Springs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles <brentbattles@charter.net>
FWIW the only in-flight incident I've had in 800+ hours of flying was
with my C-150 in which the throttle cable sheath slipped yielding a
progressively slower-running engine as the throttle knob was totally
ineffective. Starting at 6,500' over Burbank, California I made an
otherwise fairly uneventful landing at Van Nuys after declaring an
emergency and taxied at idle to the ramp. (Good thing the airport was
level.) Throttle went from cruise power to idle within about 40
seconds as best I recall. The airplane had just had a carburetor
exchange, and I had flown the airplane around the pattern 3 times the
day before this flight as I always do after any maintenance work.
Fortunately the failure occurred before reaching the coastal mountains
further along my route to Monterey. I'd have to believe a
spring-loaded throttle would have come in handy.
One other point worth making: I make it a habit to request flight
following / traffic advisories wherever I go. If unavailable, I at
least monitor the appropriate radar facility. In this case I was
already talking with Burbank Approach so all I had to do was give them
a call and squawk 7700 and I had all the help I needed right away
without having to fumble for the radio or otherwise add distractions to
the problem at hand.
Regards,
Brent Battles N16BZ 428 hrs
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
FYI
I have posted some 'crash' picture of N701US on my home page:
www.joncroke.com
You need to click on the 701 photo on the home page (pre-crash!)... there is
no label or instruction to do this, so that a typical visitor to the page
will not easily find them!
Jon
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-701 - 10/25/03 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 10/25/03 11:05:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Did I just ### up and take off too slow?
Your criticisms and raspberries will be appreciated.
You did as sadly many have been doing for nearly 100 years now, exceeded the
Critical Angle of Attack. The Wright's said prior to 1920 that 90 percent of
accidents would be eliminated if the pilots watched the Angle of Attack, same
percentage today.
Please go to my website and click on "links" then on excellent article on AOA
The best I've read in over 40 years of professional flying! Then read about
our product :-)
Elbie
www.riteangle.com
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
My rotax 912s is sitting on the engine mount and prior to drilling attachments
I would like some feedback. The engine is sitting with a deviaton to the right
of about two degrees. This is about right according to the plans, however where
the plans state that the prop hub should be on the centerline of the aircraft,
the hub center is one inch to the right. This seems to imply that the entire
engine is sitting about one inch to the right. Should I be concerned? The
engine mount was supplied by zenair. The engine is sitting dead center on the
mount.
John Birgiolas
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701- another one |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> I decided to try a really
>> short takeoff, ie full flap (30 deg) and stick back.
Is this the recommended technique by Zenair for a short takeoff in the 701?
I've never heard of using full flap for this maneuver due to the high drag
and other complications.
Glad you're alive. Don't keep banging you head on the wall! You'll never
heal that way. ;-)
- What doesn't kill you makes you stronger -- or so I've heard...
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Koonce" <rlk@granderiver.net>
Thanks for sharing the details. I had seriously considered doing the same thing!
Glad your O.K..
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701- another one |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Reinero" <reineros@pacbell.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Reinero" <reineros@pacbell.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Reinero" <reineros@pacbell.net>
Rick
You flew out of "GROUND EFFECT". There is a cushion of air trapped under
the wing for a distance above the ground roughly 1/3 the wing span of your
aircraft.. Ever notice the float on landing were the air plane flies on and
on after the flair to land? You tried to fly out of ground effect without
sufficient air speed to maintain the required lift and thus stalled. The
reason for the decent to the left may have peen the high angle of attack and
the "P" factor produced by descending blade of the prop having a higher
angle of attack to the relative airflow than the ascending blade. That is
the reason for right rudder when applying take off power or high power
setting in a climb. Ever read about P51"s doing a snap roll into the
ground when applying full throttle after a aborted landing approach when low
and slow?
High performance aircraft as well as CUBS all are subject to basic
aerodynamic. All Pilots should study the publications in sue for many years
published by the FAA . I think the best is The Private Pilot Handbook. It
is cheep and a easy read. Look for it on the web at the Government Printing
Office, Commercial versions are available at a greater cost, but not any
better at explaining the basics.
I lost a great friend and three other people in the same scenario: Did not
calculate the field length based on weight and density altitude. The
airport Brunswick Georgia is at sea level but it was a hot humid day and he
had a full load of fuel and three grownups. He hit the trees 1/4 mile from
the end of a 3,500 ft. long paved runway, never being able to climb above
20ft. above the surface.
Pleas take time to look into all the factors involved on the day your
accident took place, weight, temp,condition of the surface of the runway,
power setting, pitch attitude and you may be surprised how much runway you
really needed to get off safely.
There is another subject you may want to understand "Balanced Field Length".
It simply the distance needed to accelerate to liftoff speed, abort and
still be able to land on the runway left in front of you, used by all jets.
All factors weight, temp, and runways are considered.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Morawski" <morawski@highway1.com.au>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crash 701- another one
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Morawski"
<morawski@highway1.com.au>
>
> Jon, so sorry to hear about your accident, I too have suffered at the
hands
> of the old sod who is always waiting.
> On 1st of Sept me and my beautiful 701 (with dedalius wings) made very
hard
> contact with the dirt and am still coming to grips with it. I got off with
a
> broken ankle, cracked ribs and a head like a smashed crab.
> Reading your story has encouraged me to write this. I also feel extremely
> embarrassed and feel I have let down the whole ultralight fraternity.I am
> still off work almost 2 months now and bash my head against the wall
daily.
> Why? I hope some of you can shed some light on this,
> After 56 hours of great fun flying in my new 701 I decided to try a really
> short takeoff, ie full flap (30 deg) and stick back. I had taken off with
> full flap before but not stick back. The thing took off in about 3 to 4
> meters but when airborne made like a teabag. (ie very tail down) I am used
> to the nose high attitude of the 701 at takeoff but this was not right, I
> had no aileron or elevator response, I was afraid to close the throttle or
> raise the flaps for fear of landing on my arse and instead went into a
> descent to the left from about 70 ft. Lucky to be alive and like you Jon I
> am looking at what bits I can use again for the rebuild.
> My questions to the forum are-
> Did the tail stall? or
> Was the tail masked by full flap? (If so is that why ZAC reduced flap to
15
> deg) or
> Did I just fuck up and take off too slow?
> Your criticisms and raspberries will be appreciated.
>
> Rick Morawski
> morawski@highway1.com.au
>
>
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lnk@cis.net" <lnk@cis.net>
> I was wondering if I might trouble you to get a "tour" of your project and
> facilities some time this fall or winter? The pictures on your web site
> are great but being in the presence of the tools and workshop bring a
> perspective and clarity that just are not possible with pictures.
>
>
I replied to your email address, but if that missed you, please feel free
to call and visit my project anytime.
Larry McFarland
East Moline
Do Not Archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
>
> Hello Group,
> I am waiting on SP building time in a single seat ultralight. My (so far )
> first choice is the 701. I ran across this web page http://sky-rider.net/
> from an ad in a ultralight magazine. This plane seems to be similar to a
701
> with a few more option, RTF, almost RFT and a little cheaper. Has anyone
in
> the list who is flying or building the 701 looked at the Savannah? What
made
> you go with the 701 over it?
Jo & Larry,
I never considered the Savannah because Zenith has a great design,
reputation & support.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701
edair701@adelphia.net
Build Status:
Rudder completed
Left wing complete
Right wing 98%
Message 13
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| Subject: | Carburetor Lever Springs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: lehmansmtl@netzero.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: lehmansmtl@netzero.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: lehmansmtl@netzero.com
A look at the Illustrated Parts List for the carbs used on Lycoming and Continental
engines shows that most models have a throttle opening spring. I have no
concern about the failure rate of these springs but, both the throttle cable
and spring can be an annual inspection check item.
Unfortunately, these same carburetors do not have mixture full rich springs and
control cable failure has caused crashes. Many certified aircraft and homebuilts
have had appropriate springs added.
Mike
Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701- another one |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
Sounds like the wing stalled out of ground effect. After breaking ground you
need to reduce the angle of attack a little to compensate for leaving ground
effect.
Hope you get it back together and thanks for sharing your experience.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Morawski" <morawski@highway1.com.au>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crash 701- another one
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Morawski"
<morawski@highway1.com.au>
>
> Jon, so sorry to hear about your accident, I too have suffered at the
hands
> of the old sod who is always waiting.
> On 1st of Sept me and my beautiful 701 (with dedalius wings) made very
hard
> contact with the dirt and am still coming to grips with it. I got off with
a
> broken ankle, cracked ribs and a head like a smashed crab.
> Reading your story has encouraged me to write this. I also feel extremely
> embarrassed and feel I have let down the whole ultralight fraternity.I am
> still off work almost 2 months now and bash my head against the wall
daily.
> Why? I hope some of you can shed some light on this,
> After 56 hours of great fun flying in my new 701 I decided to try a really
> short takeoff, ie full flap (30 deg) and stick back. I had taken off with
> full flap before but not stick back. The thing took off in about 3 to 4
> meters but when airborne made like a teabag. (ie very tail down) I am used
> to the nose high attitude of the 701 at takeoff but this was not right, I
> had no aileron or elevator response, I was afraid to close the throttle or
> raise the flaps for fear of landing on my arse and instead went into a
> descent to the left from about 70 ft. Lucky to be alive and like you Jon I
> am looking at what bits I can use again for the rebuild.
> My questions to the forum are-
> Did the tail stall? or
> Was the tail masked by full flap? (If so is that why ZAC reduced flap to
15
> deg) or
> Did I just fuck up and take off too slow?
> Your criticisms and raspberries will be appreciated.
>
> Rick Morawski
> morawski@highway1.com.au
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: cortec 374 primer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
Bob . . . the quart of Cortec which I purchased from Zenith Aircraft is 373
clear. I think this is the only thing they sell. I had a half pint sample
from Cortec themselves and tried to have it tinted an olive green, like the
ZnChr. The results were only mildly successful. I'm sticking with the
clear. Hap Schoenberger 701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: cortec 374 primer
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
>
> I am just starting a CH701 project and have been also trying to find
Cortec
> 374 primer. It is not clear to me whether the primer supplied by ZAC is
the
> 373 wash primer or the single coat 374 primer? Also, is it clear or
colored
> (green or yellow)?
>
> Bob Eli
> CH701
>
> 302 Meadow View Lane
> Morgantown, WV 26508
> Home phone: (304)-594-2170
>
> Cell Phone: (304)-276-3313
> Work Phone: (304)-293-3031 ext. 2640
>
> Email: robert.eli@adelphia.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> caspainhower@aep.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cortec 374 primer
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-701 - 10/25/03 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 10/25/03 11:05:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Did I just ### up and take off too slow?
Your criticisms and raspberries will be appreciated.
You did as sadly many have been doing for nearly 100 years now, exceeded the
Critical Angle of Attack. The Wright's said prior to 1920 that 90 percent of
accidents would be eliminated if the pilots watched the Angle of Attack, same
percentage today.
Please go to my website and click on "links" then on excellent article on AOA
The best I've read in over 40 years of professional flying! Then read about
our product :-)
Elbie
www.riteangle.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701 "going off topic?" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> I personaly dont think the cables will fail in the life of the engine
> (1000+hrs),
FWIW, I had the throttle cable break in Super cub last year. I was very thankful
that the throttle went full open. I was able to land on a crop duster field
using the mixture control to adjust rpm.
Jerry Latimer
601HDS
Message 18
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| Subject: | Carburetor Lever Springs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles <brentbattles@charter.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles <brentbattles@charter.net>
FWIW the only in-flight incident I've had in 800+ hours of flying was
with my C-150 in which the throttle cable sheath slipped yielding a
progressively slower-running engine as the throttle knob was totally
ineffective. Starting at 6,500' over Burbank, California I made an
otherwise fairly uneventful landing at Van Nuys after declaring an
emergency and taxied at idle to the ramp. (Good thing the airport was
level.) Throttle went from cruise power to idle within about 40
seconds as best I recall. The airplane had just had a carburetor
exchange, and I had flown the airplane around the pattern 3 times the
day before this flight as I always do after any maintenance work.
Fortunately the failure occurred before reaching the coastal mountains
further along my route to Monterey. I'd have to believe a
spring-loaded throttle would have come in handy.
One other point worth making: I make it a habit to request flight
following / traffic advisories wherever I go. If unavailable, I at
least monitor the appropriate radar facility. In this case I was
already talking with Burbank Approach so all I had to do was give them
a call and squawk 7700 and I had all the help I needed right away
without having to fumble for the radio or otherwise add distractions to
the problem at hand.
Regards,
Brent Battles N16BZ 428 hrs
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dslabbert@worldonline.co.za>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dslabbert@worldonline.co.za>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dslabbert@worldonline.co.za>
Larry,
The 701 was copied all over the world, I'm sure you know?
I had a look at them all, just for comparison, but when it comes to parting with
your hard earned cash, well I think one needs to look at more than just price?
Building your own airplane is a major undertaking, one needs have some peace of
mind regarding the supplier, and the quality of the kit, thats the least you
can do.
Noboby wants to wind up with a tin contraption that has a lot of shortcomings,
and may not fly all that well, I can think of far better ways to waste time and
money!
Best way I think is to look at how many kits were sold, finished by the owners,
how many are flying? will give you a good indication of how successfull the kit
really are.
You need to deal with a reputable supplier too, who has parts on hand, no use waiting
ages for some little piece, before you can proceed?
Quite handy to ask other builders too, keeps you from making the same mistakes,
cheaper is seldom better.
That's why I love this list, cause I can ask other peoples opinion, then make an
informed decicion, regarding something that may take some 1000 hrs out of my
life!
'Havent seen a Savanah list yet?, or am I missing it?
Nope, dont think price is all that matters, I'll take a hard look at quality an
parts availability yes.
Even if it means carting wheelbarrow loads of stupid notes, to convert to US$
he hee hee
My 2 (Africa) cents worth ..........
Dirk.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jo and Larry
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Question about the Savannah and the 701??
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
Hello Group,
I am waiting on SP building time in a single seat ultralight. My (so far )
first choice is the 701. I ran across this web page http://sky-rider.net/
from an ad in a ultralight magazine. This plane seems to be similar to a 701
with a few more option, RTF, almost RFT and a little cheaper. Has anyone in
the list who is flying or building the 701 looked at the Savannah? What made
you go with the 701 over it?
Thank you for the 'flame free' and informative group. I keep all the old
digests and I am sure they will come in handy one day.
Larry
Science and Religion are not at odds.
Science is simply to young to understand.
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
FYI
I have posted some 'crash' picture of N701US on my home page:
www.joncroke.com
You need to click on the 701 photo on the home page (pre-crash!)... there is
no label or instruction to do this, so that a typical visitor to the page
will not easily find them!
Jon
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
Check it out these were taken a couple of days ago.
Chuck Hi-Max
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question about the Savannah and the 701??
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
> >
> > Hello Group,
> > I am waiting on SP building time in a single seat ultralight. My (so
far )
> > first choice is the 701. I ran across this web page
http://sky-rider.net/
> > from an ad in a ultralight magazine. This plane seems to be similar to a
> 701
> > with a few more option, RTF, almost RFT and a little cheaper. Has
anyone
> in
> > the list who is flying or building the 701 looked at the Savannah? What
> made
> > you go with the 701 over it?
>
> Jo & Larry,
> I never considered the Savannah because Zenith has a great design,
> reputation & support.
>
> Ed Kramer
> West Seneca, NY
> CH 701
> edair701@adelphia.net
> Build Status:
> Rudder completed
> Left wing complete
> Right wing 98%
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Question about the Savannah and the 701?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
Hello Group,
I am waiting on SP building time in a single seat ultralight. My (so far )
first choice is the 701. I ran across this web page http://sky-rider.net/
from an ad in a ultralight magazine. This plane seems to be similar to a 701
with a few more option, RTF, almost RFT and a little cheaper. Has anyone in
the list who is flying or building the 701 looked at the Savannah? What made
you go with the 701 over it?
Thank you for the 'flame free' and informative group. I keep all the old
digests and I am sure they will come in handy one day.
Larry
Science and Religion are not at odds.
Science is simply to young to understand.
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lnk@cis.net" <lnk@cis.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lnk@cis.net" <lnk@cis.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lnk@cis.net" <lnk@cis.net>
Thanks for all the replies. Some of them build my confidence while some
flush the stars from my eyes. Just what I need before I go visit the candy
store.
I wanted to take the opportunity to respond to Larry McFarland as we are,
by internet standards, next door neighbors. My name is also Larry and I
live just up river in Bellevue, IA and work in Savanna, IL. When I first
saw your name in this list I thought I recognized it and when I followed
your link I realized the proximity. I'm not sure yet why your name seemed
so familiar, whether we both belonged to the QC Computer Society (along
with Cy Galley) or perhaps I saw your name associated with the EAA. At any
rate, I was very pleased to know there is a scratch built 601 so close to
me. I was also very interested in your plans for the sheet metal brake.
The only reason I haven't ordered them yet is that I wanted to do the
workshop so I would have a better feel for how much, if any, of the project
I wanted to do from plans. My reasoning was that it would save me money
and the fuselage didn't look that difficult. But your point about forms
and fixtures is duly noted.
I was wondering if I might trouble you to get a "tour" of your project and
facilities some time this fall or winter? The pictures on your web site
are great but being in the presence of the tools and workshop bring a
perspective and clarity that just are not possible with pictures.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Larry McFarland larrymc@qconline.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
> Also, anyone do a mixture of scratch build and kit build? What portions
of
> the kit sub-groups would most lend themselves to scratch building with
> limited "quality tooling"?
Dirks questions as applies to the 601 are much the same, but the drawings
may be
farther along in quality than the 701. Mix and match the scratch build
process to
suit yourself. The tool requirements are simple for the most part. Kit
builders do end up making scratch repeats of more than a few kit parts gone
bad. I purchased the wheels, canopy, rivets and hand riveter from Zenith to
obtain the dies for pulling rivets, but to everything else less instruments,
and hardware, but I preferred scratch. Kits go faster and I don't think
that there are any great financial rewards in scratch because of the huge
investment in making forms and odd tooling. None of it has to be
terrifically expensive, but access to a large brake is helpful. I'd say kits
go twice as fast as scratch, but if you don't like building enough to do
scratch, even the kit will test the best of your original intent more than
once. There are a lot of unfinished parts and kits hanging out there.
Larry McFarland - 601hds (4 years) @ www.macsmachine.com
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: My 601XL Homepage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
Gig,
I am installing my wing locker now and wondered about the rubber
gasket you fabricated, could you provide any additional details. I am
right behind you, but on the left wing, so your site is an inspiration and
a great resource. You have an excellent picture log.
Craig S.
601 XL tail, flaps and ailerons done, left wing almost ready to close!
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
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privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
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| Subject: | Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert"
<dslabbert@worldonline.co.za>
>'Havent seen a Savanah list yet?, or am I missing it?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/savannahaircraft/
For more information:
http://www.savannahaircraft.com
Post message:
savannahaircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe:
savannahaircraft-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe:
savannahaircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
I'm getting close to joining the cabin/fwd fuse, to the rear fuse. On the
Zenith
Online photo assy guide "fuselage cabin frame" Section 10. Page 1 of 14.
they show a Wing Pick-up Template, and mention to see dwg 7F-15 for details on
how to measure the wing( and hopefully how to make the template?).
Well, my dwgs
have no such info. Could anyone scan, and e-mail it to me?
Thanks
Phil
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701- another one |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CBFLESHREN@aol.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CBFLESHREN@aol.com
In a message dated 10/26/2003 8:01:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
grantc@ca.inter.net writes:
Is this the recommended technique by Zenair for a short takeoff in the 701?
I've never heard of using full flap for this maneuver due to the high drag
and other complications
I too am curious about this -just didn't get around to asking yet. Not
that I claim to have heard much- but I have never heard of any conventional
airplane that could claim a high lift vs. drag ratio w/ a 30 degree flap setting.
I've always thought airspeed is what I need to fly & can't understand how
intenionally applying all that drag could improve airspeed. I look fwd to being
enlightened. Chris
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Similar is a odd term. Rip off of Chris Heintz' design is more precise. An
improvement? I'd have to be shown. More complex and expensive? Probably (check
out total cost with similar equipment including tooling and supplies to final
certification or flight worthy status. You'll see). Better support and supply?
I
doubt it. I feel the same way when someone rips off one of my architectural
designs and duplicates it without recognition or compensation. If you really
want to shop, there are some two dozen copies of Zenith 701s being built in
about 10 countries around the world. Check this out,
<http://ZENITHAIR.com/stolch701/7-photo-copies.html> maybe you can find a real
bargain and loose your investment and maybe your life. The 701 kit has been
around since the mid 1980s with serial numbers now in the 5000s. Mine is 4817
delivered in Jan. 2001. I'm prejudist, obviously. With good reason in my
opinion.
Good luck. Inquiries accepted off list. hal@theplanefolks.net
VSTOL CH701 (Jab3300)
N701PF installing engine next 625 hours construction time
theplanefolks.net
Hal Rozema, Phoenix AZ
Jo and Larry wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp@starband.net>
>
> Hello Group,
> I am waiting on SP building time in a single seat ultralight. My (so far )
> first choice is the 701. I ran across this web page http://sky-rider.net/
> from an ad in a ultralight magazine. This plane seems to be similar to a 701
> with a few more option, RTF, almost RFT and a little cheaper. Has anyone in
> the list who is flying or building the 701 looked at the Savannah? What made
> you go with the 701 over it?
>
> Thank you for the 'flame free' and informative group. I keep all the old
> digests and I am sure they will come in handy one day.
>
> Larry
> Science and Religion are not at odds.
> Science is simply to young to understand.
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Question about the Savannah and the 701?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
The Savannah post was from last month, it appears the matronics list
somehow re-released it (the date appears below the posters name). It is
worth anyones time that is curious about these clones to read what is
posted on the Zenith site concerning them tho'. I will have the same
confidence in my 601 XL when it's done that I currently have in my Skyhawk.
Craig S.
601 XL
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Access panel screws |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Tony,
I was going to stay with the plans on this one but doesn't the picture of the access
panel installed in the manual lookedkind of ripply on the edges?
I have pictures of the demo plane from my rudder workshop visit and this is that
panel.I remember taking tons of detailed pictures of everything around the
plane close up so I could reference them later while building. I remember my first
impression of the panel; it was kind of flimsy.
It is obviously not a problem to use the 12 screws per plans but I was bothered
by its looks. Such a big panel with only 12 screws. So later on my kit, to get
the panel to seat nice and flat for pure looks I added the weight (very little)
of 12 more nutplates,squeeze rivets and screws for a total of 24. This ironed
out all the wrinkles(ripples)and made me feel better about it.
Brian Unruh
Long Island 701 sn 4831
<I am curious about whether 12 screws is really enough to <hold the bottom access
<cover and prevent considerable air leakage.
Thanks,
Tony Pierce
701TJ
Thanks,
Tony Pierce
701TJ
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701 "going off topic?" Super Cub. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
How many hours (Years) old was that cable in the Supercub, maybe was
the original... what year of manufacture was the the Cub?
This can give us an idea... in motorcycles is very common the clutch
cable to break, has more hard work... But ascelerators is only in very
old motorcycles.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- jlatimer1@cox.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
>
>
> >
> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower
> <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I personaly dont think the cables will fail in the life of the
> engine
> > (1000+hrs),
>
> FWIW, I had the throttle cable break in Super cub last year. I was
> very thankful that the throttle went full open. I was able to land
> on a crop duster field using the mixture control to adjust rpm.
>
> Jerry Latimer
> 601HDS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Crash 701 "going off topic?" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Jerry:
Can you estimate how many hours (years) that cable was in the plane?
What year of manufacture was that Super Cub?
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- jlatimer1@cox.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
>
>
> >
> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower
> <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I personaly dont think the cables will fail in the life of the
> engine
> > (1000+hrs),
>
> FWIW, I had the throttle cable break in Super cub last year. I was
> very thankful that the throttle went full open. I was able to land
> on a crop duster field using the mixture control to adjust rpm.
>
> Jerry Latimer
> 601HDS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
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http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Angle of attack |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I think this is important... To know the angle of attack when landing
and taking off is important in any airplane, but more important in the
STOL ones... There are several brands, if you see my panel photo (on
top of the panel) we are installing the Lift Reserve indicator, is
similar product but this one works with air hoses (like the airspeed)
need no electricity.
Check also this web page:
http://www.liftreserve.com/
Has lots of info and facts, there is more info about angle of attack
handling in the net.
I am sure that any system will have their advantages over the others,
the important thing for us is to understand the potencial risk and
chose the one that we think will work better for us, I bet this could
save our plane (and life) in a short field T/O or Landing.
I studied about the importance of the Angle of Attack when I lost two
good friends in an emergency landing that finished with a low altitude
stall...
Saludos
Gary Gower
I talked about this alternative just to give us more options.
--- RiteAngle3@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/25/03 11:05:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> Did I just ### up and take off too slow?
> Your criticisms and raspberries will be appreciated.
>
> You did as sadly many have been doing for nearly 100 years now,
> exceeded the
> Critical Angle of Attack. The Wright's said prior to 1920 that 90
> percent of
> accidents would be eliminated if the pilots watched the Angle of
> Attack, same
> percentage today.
> Please go to my website and click on "links" then on excellent
> article on AOA
> The best I've read in over 40 years of professional flying! Then
> read about
> our product :-)
> Elbie
> www.riteangle.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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