---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/29/03: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:10 AM - CO-poisoning (Chris Weber) 2. 05:21 AM - Re: CO-poisoning (Frank Jones) 3. 06:07 AM - Re: New guy checking in (Larry McFarland) 4. 06:35 AM - 601 & Corvair (Gig) 5. 07:40 AM - landing / taxi lights (Carlos Sa) 6. 08:06 AM - battery operated rivetter (Carlos Sa) 7. 08:22 AM - Re: 601 and engines (Flydog1966@aol.com) 8. 09:14 AM - Re: 601 and engines (Daniel Vandenberg) 9. 10:58 AM - Sheet metal fitting... (Bima, Martin) 10. 01:37 PM - Re: 601 and engines (Flydog1966@aol.com) 11. 01:37 PM - zodiac 601 aileron deflection (Bob Miller) 12. 02:03 PM - Fw: Explanation of the Lift Reserve Indicator LRI (Gary Gower) 13. 02:04 PM - Re: 601 and engines (Daniel Vandenberg) 14. 02:45 PM - Re: zodiac 601 aileron deflection (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 15. 02:48 PM - Re: zodiac 601 aileron deflection (Larry McFarland) 16. 03:56 PM - Re: zodiac 601 aileron deflection (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 17. 04:48 PM - Re: 601 and engines (Ramperf@aol.com) 18. 05:01 PM - Re: 601 and engines (Flydog1966@aol.com) 19. 07:39 PM - Re: 601 and engines (Chuck Deiterich) 20. 10:10 PM - Re: CO-poisoning (Gary Gower) 21. 11:38 PM - Re: 601 and engines (Michael R Fortunato) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:08 AM PST US From: "Chris Weber" Subject: Zenith-List: CO-poisoning --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" > > A new issue arose in the last flight. When using cabin heat my CO > detector was showing values as high as 60 PPM. While I couldn't smell > anything this is a concern. I'll have to do an inspection of the > exhaust, but I suspect I won't see anything. Is anyone familiar with any > kind of sealant that can be applied at all exhaust junctions to lessen > leakage? > > > Frank > C-GYXQ > 601XL 912S > Ottawa Hello Frank, this is a concern, CO contaminated air smells just the same as the normal heater air gained through a jacket around the exhaust. I had a leak in my 912 heater system last year, and even though I inspected the exhaust thoroughly before installation I got caught out. The problem is that you never know what is happening INSIDE the bloody jacket. In GA aircraft they are bolted on, Rotax welds them. So sealant at the junctions might not do anything to rectify the problem. I was very lucky to be able to land my plane after starting to black out, and after those ten minutes nightmare with half a brain and an angel on my right wing I took the angle grinder and solved the heater problem once and for all. If you have any doubts about the system, cut the jacket off and plug a little cabin radiator with a computer fan in your cooling system. I might be paranoid, but it took me a long time to get over my breathing problem, and my new plane hasn't got a heater system nor a canopy, just lots of fresh air. Cheers from Downunder, Chris Building number 3 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:50 AM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CO-poisoning --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > this is a concern, CO contaminated air smells just the same as the normal > heater air gained through a jacket around the exhaust. I had a leak in my > 912 heater system last year, and even though I inspected the exhaust > thoroughly before installation I got caught out. The problem is that you > never know what is happening INSIDE the bloody jacket. In GA aircraft they > are bolted on, Rotax welds them. Chris, On my setup I have a Zenith supplied exhaust and an aluminum heat shroud that is wrapped around the exhaust collector under the engine. So I can just take this off and inspect. Air comes into the shroud from a 2-1/4" SCAT takeoff which is currently connected to nothing. In other words the input air is coming from air that is around the engine, not fresh air. If I don't find any leaks in the exhaust itself I suspect that the level of CO around the engine is around 60 PPM due to small leaks at any or all exhaust connections. Two solutions I have in mind: 1) try and seal all of these connections better, 2) duct fresh outside air into the heat shroud. I'm not sure if it is possible to get an engine compartment that is completely free of CO by eliminating any of these leaks. 60 PPM is not a high level of CO but it's not low either. Frank ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:43 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New guy checking in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: New guy checking in > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fritz Wagoner" Welcome Fritz, Nice to hear from new scratch builders. The 701 has seen a lot of activity the past couple of years. Regards, Larry McFarland - 601hds scratch builder @ www.macsmachine.com Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:00 AM PST US From: Gig Subject: Zenith-List: 601 & Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg > > Jerry... > > Have you thought about the Corvair engine option? This APPEARS as though it will > become a viable option for the 601 in its various forms. It should be much > less expensive than the Jabiru or Rotax options. There are currently none flying > on 601's, but I believe there will be soon. I believe the Corvair conversion > has shown itself to be a reliable power source on other aircraft. Zenith > appears to be cautiously optimistic about this option, as they have recently > added a separate Corvair page to their website. > > Since you have done two previous installations, the Corvair project shouldn't be > too difficult for you. > > Dan I've just recently started looking into using a Corvair conversion for my 601XL and it does show promise. THE guy that wrote the book on Corvair conversions is currently building a 601XL specifically for the Corvair engine. His web site, www.flycorvair.com, has some great info. It seems he will be producing a FWF kit at some point. I ordered the conversion manual the other day and plan to let a friend of mine who knows engines take a look at it. Gig Giacona www.peoamerica.net/N601WR ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:44 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: landing / taxi lights --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, listers Does anyone have URL to headlights technical specifications? I have one 7610 and one 7606 (sealed beam halogen, round) that I was thinking on installing in the wings of my CH601. I started having second thoughts when I noticed that many RVs use the MR-16. Wonder how they (and others, like JC Whitney's 88ZX9844X, http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/4352.JPG , etc.) compare?? I have searched the Osram-Sylvania site, as well as the GE site ( http://catalog.gelighting.com ), but I did not find the data I am looking for. What I'd like is to get photometric data (luminous intensity) and see how these different products compare. Any pointers? Opinions? Comments? Thanks in advance Carlos Sa Montreal, Canada Ch601-HD, plans ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:50 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: battery operated rivetter --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Guys, check this out: http://www.avdel.textron.com/products/installation/breakstem/tx2000.htm# Getting there, be sure to click the word "here" in the sentence: Click HERE to view the TX2000 in action Cheers Carlos ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:08 AM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com In a message dated 10/28/03 4:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, djvdb63@yahoo.com writes: << Have you thought about the Corvair engine option? This APPEARS as though it will become a viable option for the 601 in its various forms. It should be much less expensive than the Jabiru or Rotax options. There are currently none flying on 60 >> I think the Corvair is a pretty heavy engine, is'nt somewhere around 200 lbs? do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:15 AM PST US From: Daniel Vandenberg Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg Just a little over 200 lbs. wet. MUCH lighter than the EA-81 installations. Dan Flydog1966@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com In a message dated 10/28/03 4:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, djvdb63@yahoo.com writes: << Have you thought about the Corvair engine option? This APPEARS as though it will become a viable option for the 601 in its various forms. It should be much less expensive than the Jabiru or Rotax options. There are currently none flying on 60 >> I think the Corvair is a pretty heavy engine, is'nt somewhere around 200 lbs? do not archive --------------------------------- Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:48 AM PST US From: "Bima, Martin" Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet metal fitting... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" For seats - tips - roots - and other strange patterns.... Heavy paper board is excellent to use while trying to cut/fit/cut/fit/cut/test/fit/cut. Another option is printing plates. These are hard (when compared to our T6) and thin (in the range of .008 to .012) aluminum sheets that are used in the professional printing process. An image is set on them - they are used for one color - and then either sent to the recycling depot or discarded. They cut extremely easily with hand-snips and the only danger is cutting your hands into a bloody mess on the thin edges, so gloves are important. You could even drill holes and cleco them in place to ensure a fit before chopping into some of your 6061 or 2024. CLEAR SKIES!! Martin Bima Winnipeg - Hello Fritz, good to hear from you! STOL-Vair 701 Airframe - All parts cut and polished. Engine (Corvair O-164, 100 hp @ 3200 rpm direct drive) - 100% disassembled. Garage - insulated and heated for the onslaught of winter. Wife - not insulated but only slightly heated Sheet metal fitting... For seats - tips - roots - and other strange patterns.... Heavy paper board is excellent to use while trying to cut/fit/cut/fit/cut/test/fit/cut. Another option is printing plates. These are hard (when compared to our T6) and thin (in the range of .008 to .012) aluminum sheets that are used in the professional printing process. An image is set on them - they are used for one color - and then either sent to the recycling depot or discarded. They cut extremely easily with hand-snips and the only danger is cutting your hands into a bloody mess on the thin edges, so gloves are important. You could even drill holes and cleco them in place to ensure a fit before chopping into some of your 6061 or 2024. CLEAR SKIES!! Martin Bima Winnipeg - Hello Fritz, good to hear from you! STOL-Vair 701 Airframe - All parts cut and polished. Engine (Corvair O-164, 100 hp @ 3200 rpm direct drive) - 100% disassembled. Garage - insulated and heated for the onslaught of winter. Wife - not insulated but only slightly heated ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:21 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/03 12:15:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, djvdb63@yahoo.com writes: << Just a little over 200 lbs. wet. MUCH lighter than the EA-81 installations. >> Holy Cow! Whats a typical EA-81 installed weight? What about the Rotax 912? Phil do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:31 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: zodiac 601 aileron deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Hi, Two questions: 1] Does anybody know if piano hinges would give you greater aileron deflection, and therefore better roll rate, on the Zodiac? 2] I know the Zodiac wings are stressed for + and - 6gs, but people seem to have questions about how much stress the tail section could actually withstand. I'd like to do loops and rolls in my 601HD, which normally wouldn't overstress the aircraft if properly performed. Assuming I might sometime blow one of these maneuvers, though, does anybody have any suggestions as to how to beef up the tail feathers and the connection between the tail section and the fuselage? My airframe is mostly finished, but it's not too late for some strengthening mods. Thanks, Bob Miller ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:29 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Zenith-List: Fwd: Explanation of the Lift Reserve Indicator LRI --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello friends, This is the mail we recieved from Mr. Mojzisik from LRI, I am amased how fast and acurrate his response is, hope it helps. Saludos Gary Gower --- Al Mojzisik wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:54:36 -0500 > To: Graham Kirby > From: Al Mojzisik > Subject: Explanation of the Lift Reserve Indicator LRI > CC: Gary Gower > > Graham Kirby wrote: > Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" > > I'm puzzled about how an angle-of-attack device would have > helped Rick Morawski avoid his recent mishap. While Rick was > climbing up > to ~70ft wouldn't the AOA indicator have shown things to be okay, > but > marginal, due to the ground effect? I see how the problem would > have been > apparent as he left ground effect and the wing started to stall but > how > much warning would you really get? > > Thanks > Graham Kirby. > 601HD > > Graham > > Gary Gower forwarded this e-mail to me and requested that I answer > your > question. If you choose to post this to your list you have my > permission. The question of the effect of ground effect on the LRI > has > quite a history. The inventor of the LRI, Morgan Huntington, had a > problem > convincing people of this very fact. He even went to the extreme and > claimed that there was no such thing as ground effect since it had no > > effect on the LRI which hurt his credibility in some of his future > endeavors. > > The fact is that ground effect has no effect on the LRI readings. If > we > look at this logically it makes sense. The LRI measures two points of > > pressure at the tip of the probe to get it's gauge reading. Those > two > points are actually working against each other at any given time. > One is > trying to push the needle into the green and the other is trying to > push > the needle into the red. Whichever port is more exposed to the > oncoming > airflow will win. So the port on the front of the probe is dominantly > > exposed in normal flight and you get an indication of a lot a lift by > the > gauge being pegged in the green. As the wing's AOA is increased the > lower > port at the bottom of the probe becomes more exposed to the > slipstream and > the front one less directly exposed and the needle is pushed toward > the red > end of the scale. As the critical AOA is reached the lower port has > managed to push the needle to the red white juncture on the gauge > informing > the pilot that he is approaching a stall and had better take evasive > action. > > Now here is the part that the LRI detractors seem to forget. It > doesn't > matter if the airplane is in ground effect, pulling "G's" in a fast > banked > turn (accelerated stall) or just going straight ahead at a high > density > altitude because BOTH of the ports on the probe are measuring the > same > heavy, fast, or thin air. The two ports are still working against one > > another using the same air in each port. Think about it. It would > probably > even work under water but I can assure you it hasn't been tested > there. > > As far as how the LRI works on take-off, you have to remember that > ground > effect doesn't just happen in one area close to the ground and then > there > is an "edge" that you hit and things suddenly change and you are out > of > ground effect. Ground effect reduces gradually as your wings get > further > from the ground. Ground effect also actually occurs in front of your > wings > more than below them so you are constantly flying into it and what is > > happening under your wings where the probe is, is actually pretty > steady. There is really no perceptible ground effect until you > actually > rotate and increase your AOA so that the pressure created under your > wings > actually pushes the air forward creating that "pillow of air" that we > were > all taught. > > Technique for flying the LRI on take off must be developed by the > pilot for > each airplane that the LRI is installed in and for that individual > airplane > and installation. The point on the LRI gauge at which the pilot > determines > he can lift off and fly out of ground effect will depend on his > airplane > and the LRI installation on the airplane. It has to be tested and > learned > by the pilot after he has calibrated his LRI to his particular > installation. If a pilot attempts to take off as soon as the LRI > indicates > that he has enough lift to do so (at the red/white juncture on the > LRI > gauge) he probably will not be successful because of the aerodynamic > changes that occur on rotation. First you are changing the AOA as > soon as > you rotate and the LRI will move into the red. Second as you leave > the > ground you will increase your "G" loading and the LRI will move > further > into the red and you will probably stall as you are going too slow > for > rotation and lift off. The harder you pull on rotation the greater > your AOA > increases and the more "G's" you are pulling and the faster the > needle will > retreat into the red. The pilot will learn that there is a point on > the LRI > gauge, possibly at the green/white juncture or possibly halfway into > the > white that he can successfully lift off and maintain enough margin > over the > red/white juncture to safely fly out of ground effect. You will not > "see" > the airplane leave ground effect on you LRI gauge. Once this rotation > point > is determined it will always be at that point, regardless of density > altitude, speed down the runway, length of take-off run or weight of > the > airplane. Those conditions will change but the rotation point on the > LRI > gauge will remain the same. Remember, The probe is measuring the > same air > conditions at both ports and each port is working against the other > for an > accurate reading. > > Let me explain how this MAY apply to Rick Morawski's mishap of > stalling his > aircraft on take-off. If, as I understand the facts, Mr. Morawski's > aircraft stalled at 70' AGL on take-off, then we know he had enough > lift > and/or power to get his aircraft to that altitude. Seventy feet is > way > beyond any possibility of generating any lift from ground effect. > There > are two possible scenario's that I can see. > > 1. Mr. Morawski was flying his aircraft behind the power curve. > That is > to say that at some point his wings were not generating enough lift > to fly > but his engine was compensating with enough power to "hang" his > airplane > on the prop and keep it flying. Now if this were the case then if he > had a > properly calibrated LRI in his aircraft the needle should have swung > well > into the red at the time he reached speeds that were behind the power > curve > and before the actual stall occurred. At the time he actually started > > "hanging it on the prop" or flying behind the power curve the LRI > should > have been at the red/white juncture. If you are flying behind the > power > curve and you have any decrease in generated horsepower for any > reason your > airplane is likely to stall immediately and there is no way you are > going > to recover if you are only at 70'. If the stall occurs while > generating > full power it is called a "departure stall" and they can be quite > violent > and abrupt because of the torque generated by the prop and engine > ("P" factor). > > 2. The second hypothesis is that Mr. Morawski was flying near the > critical > angle of attack during his climb and slightly increased his climb > angle and > reached the critical AOA and stalled. .Again with a properly > calibrated LRI > he could have seen on the gauge exactly how close he was to critical > AOA > and hopefully would have decreased his climb angle to stay away from > the > critical AOA. This is exactly why you can perform a maximum > performance > take-off more safely if your aircraft is equipped with an LRI. The > LRI is > the ONLY AOA indicator that will tell you when you can safely rotate > and > fly out of ground effect as explained before and you can fly at max > rate of > climb and know you are staying away from the critical AOA. Thats why > Bruce > Bohanon used an LRI in the Exxon Tiger. > > Now as far as the LRI not giving accurate readings with flaps up or > flaps > down. This is another piece of misinformation that is spread around > by > other more expensive competitors. The LRI gives very accurate > readings in > both cases. Are they necessarily the same reading on the gauge? No. > In > many cases I have customers reporting no difference in readings with > flaps > up or the flaps down. In other cases I have customers report that > with > flaps down the needle may go 1 to 3 needle widths into the red before > the > onset of a stall. However that means that with flaps down, they KNOW > that > they can always go 1 to 3 needle widths into the red before the onset > of a > stall. It is repeatable and they can trust it. This is on the > conservative side of the red/white juncture reading that they get for > flaps > up stall and they regard it as a safety cushion and they all agree > that > they shouldn't be flying that close to the edge anyway. You should > be > making corrections to your flight profile long before the needle > actually > gets to the red white juncture. That is just safe flying! > > I suppose I have rambled on long enough so if you have any further > questions please feel free to E-mail me or call me at (614) 890-6301. > I am > not trying to change your mind about any of this. I am only trying > give you > a little bit different perspective and possibly some additional > information > that may help you understand what an AOA indicator can do for you and > > ultimately help you fly safer. > > Respectfully, > Al Mojzisik > prober@iwaynet.net > > See Sam Buchanan's RV website for a review of his LRI installation > at: > http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm > > Al Mojzisik > (614) 890-6301 > InAir Instruments, LLC > Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) > AOA and SO much more! > http://www.liftreserve.com > __________________________________ Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:45 PM PST US From: Daniel Vandenberg Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg Phil... I'm no expert here...I am considering an XL project so I only know what I have read. Of course, you have to consider the sources. Zenith says the installed (not sure if this includes coolant) Stratus EA-81 is 220 lbs: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-subaru.html William Wynne lists the wet installed weight of the 2700 cc Corvair with electric start at 220-225 lbs, and the 3100 cc Corvair a little lighter at 212-217 lbs: http://www.flycorvair.com/corvair.html Mr Wynne also reports, farther down on that page, that those who have converted from the Subaru to the Corvair have experienced a 50 lb. weight savings...that is why I stated that the Corvair was lighter. I should have been less concrete, since I have no first hand knowledge. I believe Mr. Wynne has a reputation as being a straight shooter, but he is not an unbiased source. Obviously, every installation of any of these engines is unique, so the comparisons have to be interpreted as such. The installed weight of the Rotax 912S is under 200 lbs...I do not know exactly. I believe the installed weight of the Jabiru 3300 is just a hair over 200 lbs...couldn't find an exact reference. Perhaps others could shed light on this from experience? Dan Flydog1966@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/03 12:15:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, djvdb63@yahoo.com writes: << Just a little over 200 lbs. wet. MUCH lighter than the EA-81 installations. >> Holy Cow! Whats a typical EA-81 installed weight? What about the Rotax 912? Phil do not archive --------------------------------- Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:26 PM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: zodiac 601 aileron deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Bob, I don't know if the HD will roll at the same rate as my "per the plans" HDS, but you had better be prepaired if you actually apply full roll rate and hold it there.... VERY FAST ROLL RATE!!! In talking to Chris Heintz at Oshkosh a few years ago, he warned that we should NEVER let the aircraft enter a tail-slide. Fred Jabiru 3300- HDS now at 98 hours and having FUN! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:32 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: zodiac 601 aileron deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: zodiac 601 aileron deflection > > 1] Does anybody know if piano hinges would give you greater aileron deflection, and therefore better roll rate, on the Zodiac? > does anybody have any suggestions as to how to beef up the tail feathers and the connection between the tail section and the fuselage? > I'm told that the aileron roll sensitivity is really good on this plane. I've only flown the hingless type but don't think piano hinges would add much but to relieve self-centering action. This is a "light" plane, 650 lbs compared to a Cessna at 1016 lbs empty or a Luscombe at 900 lbs and I'd think beefing up any component like using 3/32 attach plates of 2024-T3 would only lead to the question of what it's attached to. This construction is light from beginning to end and I'd ask Nick about aerobatics, even limited to positive Gs. Suspect the wing configuration would dampen the barrel roll rate or the even precise fall off from a hammerhead. Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:23 PM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: zodiac 601 aileron deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" The limit on aleron deflection is more about interference from the control horn. The piano hinges did not give any more deflection than on the drawings. The HDS is not a roll friendly A/C...way too stable. Yes it will roll but its kinda hard work. After doing a dozen or so rolls in mine I had a pain in my shoulder from pulling the stick hard. It also looses a lot of altitude so the nose up pitch has to be quite high. I would bet the HD is less roll friendly that the HDS due to its longer wingspan. I never done one but I understand the HD loops okay. I've given up any aerobatics with the HDS, its just too much hard work and it certainly is not graceful Frank HDS, soob 308 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Miller Subject: Zenith-List: zodiac 601 aileron deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" --> Hi, Two questions: 1] Does anybody know if piano hinges would give you greater aileron deflection, and therefore better roll rate, on the Zodiac? 2] I know the Zodiac wings are stressed for + and - 6gs, but people seem to have questions about how much stress the tail section could actually withstand. I'd like to do loops and rolls in my 601HD, which normally wouldn't overstress the aircraft if properly performed. Assuming I might sometime blow one of these maneuvers, though, does anybody have any suggestions as to how to beef up the tail feathers and the connection between the tail section and the fuselage? My airframe is mostly finished, but it's not too late for some strengthening mods. Thanks, Bob Miller advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:11 PM PST US From: Ramperf@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com Guys, I 'm not sure who's weighing what but I do know that the ea81 (done right) weights 197lbs wet. Now if your weighing the radiator 3.4lbs and the fliud and every nut and bolt with the mount ,ok, then I see the weight but not just the engine and drive at 210. Ron ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:19 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com In a message dated 10/29/03 5:05:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, djvdb63@yahoo.com writes: << .that is why I stated that the Corvair was lighter. I should have been less concrete, since I have no first hand knowledge. >> Its not that I did'nt believe the Corvair was lighter than the Subaru, I just did'nt realize,or have any idea, just how heavy that valve guide suckin' Subaru is. (Do'nt mean to ruffle any feathers buy that comment, just could'nt resist) Kodiak/Rotax says 166 lbs insalled weight for the Rotax 914UL. I'm building the 701 and am limited to a 200 lb or less engine, so Corvair and Soobs are out for me. Phil do not archive this drivel ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:19 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" My Jabiru 2200 weighs in at 132 #, including muffler and all accessories.. Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/29/03 12:15:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, > djvdb63@yahoo.com writes: > > << Just a little over 200 lbs. wet. MUCH lighter than the EA-81 > installations. > >> > Holy Cow! Whats a typical EA-81 installed weight? What about the > Rotax 912? > Phil > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:28 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CO-poisoning --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Our first thought over the cabin heat supplied by ZAC, in our planes, was to put a hose from the front of the cowling to the intake of the Cabin Heat (as we did)... I an sure (simple personal though of how the conections look) that the ball conections of the muffler are not airtight... some CO will eventually come out to the engine compartment, How much? I dont know, but we wont take the risk. This is our first closed cabin airplane project, we have no experience (but the one we read) about the danger of CO inside the airplane cabin, and we will aboid all risk as much as we can. Saludos Gary Gower. --- Frank Jones wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > > > > this is a concern, CO contaminated air smells just the same as the > normal > > heater air gained through a jacket around the exhaust. I had a leak > in > my > > 912 heater system last year, and even though I inspected the > exhaust > > thoroughly before installation I got caught out. The problem is > that > you > > never know what is happening INSIDE the bloody jacket. In GA > aircraft > they > > are bolted on, Rotax welds them. > > Chris, > > On my setup I have a Zenith supplied exhaust and an aluminum heat > shroud > that is wrapped around the exhaust collector under the engine. So I > can > just take this off and inspect. Air comes into the shroud from a > 2-1/4" > SCAT takeoff which is currently connected to nothing. In other words > the > input air is coming from air that is around the engine, not fresh > air. > > If I don't find any leaks in the exhaust itself I suspect that the > level > of CO around the engine is around 60 PPM due to small leaks at any or > all exhaust connections. Two solutions I have in mind: 1) try and > seal > all of these connections better, 2) duct fresh outside air into the > heat > shroud. > > I'm not sure if it is possible to get an engine compartment that is > completely free of CO by eliminating any of these leaks. 60 PPM is > not a > high level of CO but it's not low either. > > Frank > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 and engines From: Michael R Fortunato --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael R Fortunato IMO, you guys are missing the point here. If you want a light aircraft engine, plunk down the bucks for a Rotax or Jabiru. If you're OK with 220 lbs and want to save about $10K, then consider the Corvair. It's as simple as that. Nothing wrong with either choice....largely depends on your budget. Mike Fortunato 601XL