---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/05/03: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? (Matt Dralle) 2. 07:32 AM - Roller applied paint finish (Hal Rozema) 3. 07:46 AM - 701 SP and BRS emergency parachute (LARRY BOHANNON) 4. 07:47 AM - 701/912S installation (Ken Szewc) 5. 08:09 AM - Re: 701/912S installation (Cdbyuma@aol.com) 6. 08:11 AM - Re: 701 SP and BRS emergency parachute (Chip W Erwin) 7. 09:12 AM - Re: Roller applied paint finish (Randall Stout) 8. 01:27 PM - Parts for sale (Gerald A. Applefeld) 9. 01:45 PM - Re: N701XL Flies! (Clive Richards) 10. 03:01 PM - Re: 701 SP and BRS emergency parachute (Mike Sinclair) 11. 06:33 PM - Re: Parts for sale (Larry McFarland) 12. 07:34 PM - Re: N701XL Flies! (Thomas F Marson) 13. 07:49 PM - Re: N701XL flies (Dabusmith@aol.com) 14. 09:31 PM - engraving id on some parts (Eric Tauch) 15. 10:19 PM - Re: engraving id on some parts (Jack Russell) 16. 10:20 PM - Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer (Eric Tauch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:51 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, The List Fund Raiser is going well so far this year and I wanted to say "Thank You" to everyone that has made a Contribution already this year! Though the generous support of Andy Gold and the Builders Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I'm able to offer some truly awesome gifts with qualifying Contributions this year. There's quite a line up and a rather diverse set of options - certainly something for every taste and personality. Here's a list of this year's fine options: * List Archive CD * Aircraft Builder's Log * Pilot Flashlight System * Pro Pilot Logbook * FAR/AIM on CD * Jeppesen Flight Bag * Aviation History Book * Techstar Flight Computer Please support your Email List Community AND pick up a really slick Gift at the same time! The SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/contributions Once again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously supported the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists Services here on the Matronics servers!! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:29 AM PST US From: Hal Rozema Subject: Zenith-List: Roller applied paint finish --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema I'm looking for any experience and recommendations for a high gloss, self leveling roller applied finish for an aluminum bird Hal Rozema VSTOL 701 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:24 AM PST US From: "LARRY BOHANNON" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 SP and BRS emergency parachute Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:46:10 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LARRY BOHANNON" Hi List, I've just started working on the rear fuselage of my 701 SP. I'm planning on putting in a BRS emergency parachute and would like to see if there is anybody else on the list who has installed one in the 701 Sport Pilot model. I would like to make the cutouts, etc. while I am working on the baggage compartment. The drawings by BRS on the Zenith website seem to show the short baggage compartment installation for the older 701. I'm guessing I could just move mine to the back of my extended baggage compartment but I'm really wondering how to cover and protect the several feet of kevlar bridles that would have to run along the top of the outside fuselage??? Also, does anyone know of a good dealer of BRS chutes to work with? Larry Bohannon Winder, Georgia 701 SP #5040 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:13 AM PST US From: "Ken Szewc" Subject: Zenith-List: 701/912S installation --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" I am in the process of installing the 912S on my 701SP. Everything has gone very well with the supplied instructions and drawings. However reading the 912S installation manual supplied with the engine, there are a few things mentioned that I have not seen or heard of in a 701. The first is the drip pans/heat shields underneath the carburetors, is this something that needs to be done? I don't think I have seen them on any engine installation pictures. It also mentions air baffles and reading temperatures between fins 2 and 3 on the cylinder head to make sure there is enough airflow. Air baffles needed with the ZAC supplied cowl? Thanks Ken ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:57 AM PST US From: Cdbyuma@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701/912S installation --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cdbyuma@aol.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:47 AM PST US From: "Chip W Erwin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 SP and BRS emergency parachute --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W Erwin" We make this installation and have a drawing for it, plus we can provide the BRS. Regards, CHIP Chip W. Erwin CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS, S.R.O. Manufacturer of Sport Aircraft & Aircraft Floats Lucn 1824, 686 02 Star Mesto, Czech Republic Tel: +420 572 543 456 Fax: +420 572 543 692 USA Fax: (772) 264 0936 Mobile Tel: (420) 602 342 717 E-mail: aircraft@czaw.cz www.airplane.cz -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LARRY BOHANNON Subject: Zenith-List: 701 SP and BRS emergency parachute --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LARRY BOHANNON" Hi List, I've just started working on the rear fuselage of my 701 SP. I'm planning on putting in a BRS emergency parachute and would like to see if there is anybody else on the list who has installed one in the 701 Sport --- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:26 AM PST US From: "Randall Stout" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roller applied paint finish --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Stout" Hal I've done some experimentation with applying polyurethane boat paint with a roller. I haven't painted the whole plane yet, and will probably wait until I have finished flight testing. I can tell you that it is a time consuming process, but you don't need the setup required for spraying. Preparation is the same as spraying. It works best if the temperature is around 70 deg. If it is hotter, the paint won't flow as well and will leave a rougher finish. Check out the "paint" link on my web page. Randy Stout - San Antonio TX CH601HD N282RS n282rs@sbcglobal.net http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal Rozema" Subject: Zenith-List: Roller applied paint finish > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema > > I'm looking for any experience and recommendations for a high gloss, > self leveling roller applied finish for an aluminum bird > > Hal Rozema > VSTOL 701 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:01 PM PST US From: "Gerald A. Applefeld" "airsoob@yahoogroups.com" Subject: Zenith-List: Parts for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gerald A. Applefeld" To the list: I have recently lost my second EA-81 engine. After a tear down we found that Pistons and cylinder walls on Clyinders# 2 and 4 were burned through. I only had 5 hours on the engine. This was in a Zodiac 601HD. I have now given up on using a SOOB in the Zodiac and have ordered a 6cyl. Jabiru. Therefore I have some parts for sale to anyone that still wants a SOOB. The following is a nearly complete list: Joe Souza redrive (based on a Hirth gearbox), Warp 3-blade prop with tapered blades, hub and spinner, starter already attached to redrive, alternator (I think 60 amp), Engine mount custom built by Joe Souza for the 601, oil cooler, remote oil filter with steel braid hoses, Joe Souza custom intake manifold with Makuni carb, distributor with dual ignition modification, dual coils and coil selector, dual Facet fuel pumps, Engine cowl for 601 provided by ZAC with mod for oil cooler, misc parts of two EA81 engines some of which are still very servicable (cam, crankshaft, heads, flywheel, etc) Would like to get $3000 for the lot (Joe Souza now sells the redrive alone for $2800) Only has 6-7 hours on redrive, prop etc. Contact me off list if interested. Jerry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:03 PM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701XL Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: N701XL Flies! Hi Dave Where is your center of gravity ? you may be behind the rear limit which can be very dangerious. If you loose elevator control you will not be able to get into a dive to recover flying speed . I hope your further flight testing goes ok All the best Clive Richards Do not archive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com > > > November 1, 2003, @ 0720 N701XL S/N 7-4618 took to the air at Pierce Co. > airport > Puyallop, WA. > >. I have stalled it many times. I must be > doing something wrong. I gently climb with the ball centered after pulling power. > Even with the stick all the way back it feels completely in control. The > airspeed has quickly dropped to zero. The altimeter is unraveling. It stays that > way until I tip the nose forward, at that point it is like turning on a switch. > Everything is back flying again. I am unable to find a specific speed. I am > sure with time I'll be able to pick out the stall speed. Any one know the > secret? > > All the best > Dave Smith > 701SP 912S > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:35 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 SP and BRS emergency parachute --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Larry I am building one of the "older" style 701's with the short baggage compartment and have installed my BRS at the very forward and center part of the compartment closer to the CG. I would suspect that if you install the 30+ lbs of the BRS at the aft of the extended compartment you would run the risk of setting your CG at the aft limits or beyond. If you intend to do this you may want to get closer to weight & balance time to do the actual installation. This would give you the opportunity to use the BRS as ballast to help balance the plane. To protect my bridles across the top of the fuselage, I made some thin (2 layers) fiberglass fairings that cover the bridles from close to the rear wing attach points, to the fiberglass fairing I made to cover the BRS egress hole in the top skin. If you are interested please reply off line and I will try to get a few appropriate pictures reduced enough to send over my landline, that shows my installation. Please note that I have just finished up this installation and still need to send pictures of this to BRS for their inspection. Though I did have my tech counselor looking at my plane a couple of weeks ago, and he seemed very satisfied with the way I have mine set up. Mike Sinclair N701TD LARRY BOHANNON wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LARRY BOHANNON" > > Hi List, > I've just started working on the rear fuselage of my 701 SP. I'm planning on putting in a BRS emergency parachute and would like to see if there is anybody else on the list who has installed one in the 701 Sport Pilot model. I would like to make the cutouts, etc. while I am working on the baggage compartment. The drawings by BRS on the Zenith website seem to show the short baggage compartment installation for the older 701. I'm guessing I could just move mine to the back of my extended baggage compartment but I'm really wondering how to cover and protect the several feet of kevlar bridles that would have to run along the top of the outside fuselage??? Also, does anyone know of a good dealer of BRS chutes to work with? > > Larry Bohannon > Winder, Georgia > 701 SP #5040 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:41 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Parts for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Gerald, Did you determine the cause for your engine failure, or does anyone know how your cylinder walls got burned? There are quite a few on this list that might be helped by an understanding of what happened. Larry McFarland - 601hds ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald A. Applefeld" Subject: Zenith-List: Parts for sale After a tear down we found > that Pistons and cylinder walls on Clyinders# 2 and 4 were burned > through. I only had 5 hours on the engine. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:15 PM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701XL Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" Dave, I have no experience with the 701 but what you are describing is fairly normal for lots of planes certified and non- certified. The Ercoupe stalled like this (it didn't really stall). That is because in that plane was elevator limited. I have a Dakota Hawk that stalls like that with power off. With power on there is enough more elevator control that the plane can be made to fully stall. As another writer said your Cg may be aft----------- this doesnt sound like that at all. If Anything your situation sounds more like quite forward cg that keeps the nose from rising enough. Why don't you ask the 701 experts------ the factory? That will give you the definitive answer. Tom Marson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701XL Flies! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: N701XL Flies! > > Hi Dave Where is your center of gravity ? you may be behind the rear > limit which can be very dangerious. If you loose elevator control you will > not be able to get into a dive to recover flying speed . I hope your > further flight testing goes ok > All the best > Clive Richards > Do not archive > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com > > > > > November 1, 2003, @ 0720 N701XL S/N 7-4618 took to the air at Pierce Co. > > airport > > Puyallop, WA. > > > >. I have stalled it many times. I must be > > doing something wrong. I gently climb with the ball centered after pulling > power. > > Even with the stick all the way back it feels completely in control. The > > airspeed has quickly dropped to zero. The altimeter is unraveling. It > stays that > > way until I tip the nose forward, at that point it is like turning on a > switch. > > Everything is back flying again. I am unable to find a specific speed. I > am > > sure with time I'll be able to pick out the stall speed. Any one know the > > secret? > > > All the best > > Dave Smith > > 701SP 912S > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:33 PM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: N701XL flies --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com Clive My C.G. empty is 334 mm. I put 1.8 lb. at the tail to get it 1/4 to 1/3 back in the C. G. range on the advise of others. I think the way my plane stalls is normal to this type of aircraft. It is better explained by someone with better skills than I! I am just having a ball flying this plane. My landings are poor. I think I am flaring too high. The flair reminds me of leaning back in my chair in grade school. I am just sort of plopping down from a couple of feet. Sometimes the nose stays up. Sometimes the nose plops down just after the mains. I will master this! I have repitched my prop a couple of times today. I tried it at 10 deg and found everything great but had to watch not over speeding the engine when I level off. Also my highest EGT at that prop setting ran about 1525 f. The oil temp was approx. 197f. water 157f. OAT 47f. My takeoff climb approx. 1250 fpm.(1 up full fuel 48 mph). I then pitched my Warp drive to 12 deg. The climb out was still great approx. 1150-1200 (1 up full fuel). The highest EGT runs at 1494f. Oil temp 193f. water 157f. OAT 47deg. At the 12 deg setting the plane seems to fly nicer. I have not tried a higher pitch. It isn't very hard to reach Vne at either pitch setting. My temps were recorded at 5300 rpm cruise. I have been putting a piece of aluminum tape over the oil cooler and running the oil temp up to 215f at the end of the day. If it stays this cold I might do something more permanent. Dave Smith N701XL 912s 20 hours ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:48 PM PST US From: "Eric Tauch" Subject: Zenith-List: engraving id on some parts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" Greetings, I am about to get out the wire and scrap aluminum to make some id tags for all my parts before I prime them. This is for some of the internal angle pieces that hold the skeleton together. I was wondering if it wouldnt be too "damaging" to engrave a very small A,B,C,D, etc in the corner tip of some of these pieces. I oringally read about this on the RV list. An engraver essentially pushes a sharp tip into the surface of the aluminum at a fast vibration rate. This would be on the lowest setting. The concern is weakening or fatiguing the piece. Obvioulsy, you wouldnt do this on a spar or longeron. The zenith docs say you should remove all transverse scratches from spars and longerons, and all other surface blemishes are ok. What do you think? I'm leaning towards the wire tag thing, but engraving an ID label would be quicker and and make the parts easier to handle during washing and priming. Eric ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:28 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: engraving id on some parts --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Eric: I found that I could mark each piece with a black sharpie pen and prime. The black showed through the primer. The only problem was that after cleaning each piece with solvent I had to remark that piece. I always tried to mark it in such a way that it will be hidden but with most of the pieces you won't be able to see it anyway. Jack Russell -Clovis, CA XL Jabiru 3300 Slow progress at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:12 PM PST US From: "Eric Tauch" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" Hi Bob, Any more info on the Cortec. I think I will just go ahead and order a quart. Thanks, Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Eli" Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" > > I am beginning my CH701 construction and have been concerned about > understanding priming pros and cons with respect to the Cortec products. I > have been doing research on subject, and have talked to the Cortec people > and to Nick at ZAC about which product is best for aircraft interior > surfaces (he said that Cortec recommended the 373 instead of alternate > products). This is an interim report on what I have learned. First, the > most appropriate product is the Cortec 373 wash primer that is supplied by > ZAC in quarts (according to the Cortec chemist and engineer). Boeing > Aircraft Co. has used this product on some of their production aircraft > interior surfaces, to name one usage example. The Cortec chemist does not > recommend the 374 primer for our purposes. I am gathering specs and surface > preparation details, and will report more extensively on this subject as > soon as I receive the information from Cortec. > > > Bob Eli > > CH701 > >