Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - Re: engraving id on some parts (Grant Corriveau)
2. 03:53 AM - Re: Re: N701XL flies (Benford2@aol.com)
3. 05:13 AM - Instruments for Sale (Lenleg@aol.com)
4. 10:59 AM - CH 701 fuselage (Tony & Peggy Pierce)
5. 11:35 AM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Larry McFarland)
6. 12:23 PM - N701XL Flies (Dabusmith@aol.com)
7. 02:38 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Hal Rozema)
8. 02:45 PM - CofG limits for CH-640 (David Witt)
9. 03:15 PM - Re: N701XL Flies (Thomas F Marson)
10. 03:16 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Keith Ashcraft)
11. 03:26 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Thomas F Marson)
12. 05:06 PM - Re: N701XL Flies (Benford2@aol.com)
13. 05:16 PM - Re: N701XL Flies (Benford2@aol.com)
14. 05:25 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Ken Szewc)
15. 06:08 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Jon Croke)
16. 07:11 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Gary Gower)
17. 07:18 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Gary Gower)
18. 08:16 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Thomas F Marson)
19. 09:09 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Chuck Deiterich)
20. 09:55 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Ken Szewc)
21. 09:57 PM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Tony & Peggy Pierce)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: engraving id on some parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
http://www.championtrailers.com/tire_art.html
The above link contains a good article explaining the ins and outs of
trailer tires such as we use on the Zenairs...
There is also an article about how to build a utility trailer. This might
be handy if anyone is considering the need to trailer his aircraft...?
fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: N701XL flies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 11/5/2003 8:50:10 PM Mountain Standard Time,
Dabusmith@aol.com writes:
> prop setting ran
> about 1525 f. The oil temp was approx. 197f. water 157f. OAT 47f. My takeoff
> climb
> approx. 1250 fpm.(1 up full fuel 48 mph). I then pitched my Warp drive to 12
>
> deg. The climb out was still great approx. 1150-1200 (1 up full fuel). The
> highest EGT runs at 1494f. Oil temp 193f. water 157f. OAT
I am not a degreed engineer and I don't play one on tv, BUT. I have hundreds
of hours in my dyno cell testing everything from Kart engines to 100,000 $
V-6 193 Cid racing engines and I have never seen 1500 + degree egt temps where
the motor was not hurt. If you ever saw how bright orange your exhaust pipes
are glowing you would crap in your shorts. You might want to re calibrate your
gauges.
Ben Haas
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Instruments for Sale |
pietenpol-list@matronics.com, commander-list@matronics.com,
aerobatic-list@matronics.com, europa-list@matronics.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
I have the following for sale:
RC Allen Electric Attitude Indicator with 8 degree tilt, 14V, approx. 75hrs
RC Allen Electric Direction Gyro, 14V, 150 hrs,
Both instruments are in my RV-8A still flying. Been flying in my plane for 1
year.
Instruments retail for $1895 each. Make an offer off list. Please respond
direct to: lenleg@aol.com
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
I am building a 701 with another co-owner. We are working on the rear fuselage
and are trying to discover whether additional L's should be riveted to the skins
to prevent 'oil canning'. The 701 in the Zenith photo gallery shows X's between
each frame, but this seems excessive. We would appreciate feedback from
those of you flying the 701 as to how severe the 'oil canning' is, and what
you have done to mitigate it.
Thanks,
Tony Pierce
701TJ #5188
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
We would appreciate feedback from those of you flying the 701 as to how
severe the 'oil canning' is, and what you have done to mitigate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony Pierce
> 701TJ #5188
>
Tony,
I've seen several 601s and 701s that used a heavy duct tape in an X between
frames to minimize the oil-canning
and was told that it worked rather well. The diagonal framing on the other
hand will leave you with a Z-wave that
is very predominant in the summer sun if that matters, but doubt that will
solve the oil canning as well as a contact
adhesive, tape, spray or padding.
Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>If you ever saw how bright orange your exhaust pipes
are glowing you would crap in your shorts.
Ben
The EGT calibration is accurate at ambient temperature. I guess I could use
temp. crayon but, things seem normal. The manual on the 912S calls out EGT
temps. at 1470 f. nominal and 1560 f. Max. cruise and 1620f. take off. I am only
watching the aft cylinders. The cowling is just warm at the front curves when I
shut it down. The front right side is closest to the header. It was almost
hot to the touch at the first run up. I used .016 6061 attached with hi temp red
RTV. It has about 3/16 air gap under it. Did the trick.
I am thinking of installing the centering cams under the nose wheel steering.
I put a thrust bearing under the stop plate at the top of the strut with a
rubber washer under that. The steering arms barely touch the angles that are
flat in my case but are supposed to be notched per plans. I used Micarta blocks
for the rudder pedal bearings. The rudder is very light at low speeds. I am
thinking some ramps with slight angles would center the rudder in flight. It is
just a minor nuisance to tweak the ball. I must do it fairly often though. Do
the centering ramps help keep the ball centered in cruise?
Dave Smith
N701XL 912 ULS
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Check the brush on that air conditioning companies use to stop oil canning or
turbulence rumble in supply ducts
Larry McFarland wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> We would appreciate feedback from those of you flying the 701 as to how
> severe the 'oil canning' is, and what you have done to mitigate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tony Pierce
> > 701TJ #5188
> >
> Tony,
> I've seen several 601s and 701s that used a heavy duct tape in an X between
> frames to minimize the oil-canning
> and was told that it worked rather well. The diagonal framing on the other
> hand will leave you with a Z-wave that
> is very predominant in the summer sun if that matters, but doubt that will
> solve the oil canning as well as a contact
> adhesive, tape, spray or padding.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | CofG limits for CH-640 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Witt" <david@davidwitt.com>
Do any of the 640 builders know where I can find the C of G limits for
this plane. I have looked throught the plans and the accompanying
documentation but I can't find them. I'm having some reservations about
building a plane without having the C of G limits published by the
designer.
Dave Witt
CH640-0037
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: N701XL Flies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dabusmith@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: N701XL Flies
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>
>
> >If you ever saw how bright orange your exhaust pipes
> are glowing you would crap in your shorts.
>
> Ben
> The EGT calibration is accurate at ambient temperature. I guess I could
use
> temp. crayon but, things seem normal. The manual on the 912S calls out EGT
> temps. at 1470 f. nominal and 1560 f. Max. cruise and 1620f. take off. I
am only
> watching the aft cylinders.
==================================
I assume you are concerned about the general effect of engine and exhaust
heat on the Fiberglass cowling. If so your idea of the heat shield of .016
alum is good idea. You carried into this subject immediatly after egt temps.
Your are not relating the two are you?. I don't think they are much related.
You could have egts at 1200 and still have a hot cowling.
The cowling is just warm at the front curves when I
> shut it down. The front right side is closest to the header. It was almost
> hot to the touch at the first run up. I used .016 6061 attached with hi
temp red
> RTV. It has about 3/16 air gap under it. Did the trick.
========================================================
> I am thinking of installing the centering cams under the nose wheel
steering.
> I put a thrust bearing under the stop plate at the top of the strut with a
> rubber washer under that. The steering arms barely touch the angles that
are
> flat in my case but are supposed to be notched per plans. I used Micarta
blocks
> for the rudder pedal bearings. The rudder is very light at low speeds. I
am
> thinking some ramps with slight angles would center the rudder in flight.
It is
> just a minor nuisance to tweak the ball. I must do it fairly often though.
Do
> the centering ramps help keep the ball centered in cruise?
I think if your goal is to have the ball self center in flight the idea of
any self centering mechanical device to accomplish that will be an exercise
in futility. There is a nearly continious change of slip skid force in
normal flight.
Any pitch change, any speed change, any offset aileron (maybe to hold a
heavy wing as fuel, with or with out passenger) will cause a ball
displacement.
For continious ball center there is no substitute for adjusting the rudder.
================================================
Tom Marson
> Dave Smith
> N701XL 912 ULS
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Hey Tony,
Check out Johann's site (click on Zenith on the side bar, then fuselage
at the top)
http://www.gi.is/fis/
he has also added some strigers to prevent oil canning. I am thinking
that I am going to do the same. I see Larry was talking about some users
using tape with good results. I can't say which is best. Maybe Johann
will chime in and give his results.
Good Luck,
Keith
CH701
a long ways to go (only 170% more)
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
(about 20 miles West of Colorado Springs)
*****************************************************************************************
Tony & Peggy Pierce wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
>
>I am building a 701 with another co-owner. We are working on the rear fuselage
and are trying to discover whether additional L's should be riveted to the skins
to prevent 'oil canning'. The 701 in the Zenith photo gallery shows X's
between each frame, but this seems excessive. We would appreciate feedback from
those of you flying the 701 as to how severe the 'oil canning' is, and what
you have done to mitigate it.
>
>Thanks,
>Tony Pierce
>701TJ #5188
>
>
>
>
************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
received this email in error please notify the sender. Please note that any
views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and
do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should
check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries
accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
email.
************************************
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
I can't give guidance on the addition of any Ls. But I can give you some
good advice on the subject. I built a RV6 and on of the recommended ways to
help reduce sound was to glue some patches of sound deadening material every
couple of square feet of surface inside the rear fuselage. The material we
use is available from Wicks and Aircraft Spruce. It is black aircraft sound
deadening insulation. It is available in several thicknesses but most use
the 1/2 inch. Weight is neglible and cost is low too. JUst glue a patch of
around 5X7 inches to each large metal section. It will cut the buzzing down
like you cant believe. Tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 fuselage
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce"
<piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
>
> I am building a 701 with another co-owner. We are working on the rear
fuselage and are trying to discover whether additional L's should be riveted
to the skins to prevent 'oil canning'. The 701 in the Zenith photo gallery
shows X's between each frame, but this seems excessive. We would appreciate
feedback from those of you flying the 701 as to how severe the 'oil canning'
is, and what you have done to mitigate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony Pierce
> 701TJ #5188
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: N701XL Flies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 11/6/2003 1:25:06 PM Mountain Standard Time,
Dabusmith@aol.com writes:
>
> Ben
> The EGT calibration is accurate at ambient temperature. I guess I could use
> temp. crayon but, things seem normal. The manual on the 912S calls out EGT
> temps. at 1470 f. nominal and 1560 f. Max. cruise and 1620f. take off. I am
> only
> watching the aft cylinders. The cowling is just warm at the front curves
1620 f... WOW.. Aluminum melts at 1355 f ,so the piston heads and the exhaust
ports in a aluminum motor are very close to melting too. Now remember they
are water cooled from the inside, but that high of temps are going to erode the
surfaces where 1600 degree gases are passing by,one would think.. Good luck
and I hope to meet ya at a Zenith open house one day in the future.
Ben Haas.
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: N701XL Flies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 11/6/2003 4:17:54 PM Mountain Standard Time,
tmarson@pressenter.com writes:
>
> > >If you ever saw how bright orange your exhaust pipes
> > are glowing you would crap in your shorts.
> >
> > Ben
> > The EGT calibration is accurate at ambient temperature. I guess I could
> use
> > temp. crayon but, things seem normal. The manual on the 912S calls out EGT
> > temps. at 1470 f. nominal and 1560 f. Max. cruise and 1620f. take off. I
> am only
> > watching the aft cylinders.
>
The point I was trying to make was the high temps. All you builders out there
can get a attitude adjustment real fast. Go to your electric stove and turn
on the top burner to high, now if you had a IR gun to show the temp it would
read in the 1300- 1375 f range. Take your hand and hold it close, thats called
radiated heat. Now imagine that glowing stove burner 20 % hotter. Just a
reminder to keep all combustibles way clear of all exhaust pipes...
Ben Haas.
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
Tony,
I am building a 701 also and plan on using quiet cote on parts of the
interior of the fuselage. It is a FAA approved roll on sound it's
waterbased, nontoxic, non flammable and FAA approved. I have a quart of this
and plan on just using enough to quiet down the problem areas.
Here is the URL http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/qulida.html
Ken
701SP 912S
Engine installed working on the wiring.
Just received the new bubble doors today
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 fuselage
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce"
<piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
>
> I am building a 701 with another co-owner. We are working on the rear
fuselage and are trying to discover whether additional L's should be riveted
to the skins to prevent 'oil canning'. The 701 in the Zenith photo gallery
shows X's between each frame, but this seems excessive. We would appreciate
feedback from those of you flying the 701 as to how severe the 'oil canning'
is, and what you have done to mitigate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony Pierce
> 701TJ #5188
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
During my last and only 2 hrs in the 701, I was keenly aware of the 'noise'
in the cockpit. It was a bit noisier than I would have liked, and I think
the noise I heard was coming from the cabin and luggage area ONLY. I have
to believe that if the fuselage (way back there) was making noise, it was of
little concern to me. I did have the L stringers that make a bunch of Z's
installed.
I recall that I found the noise coming mainly from that big metal box we
call the luggage area, and as I rebuild I will definitely pay some attention
to soundproofing this area using the ideas recently described. I also
noticed that the thin lexan roof was also vibrating right above your head
and will investigate making this more rigid (thicker material maybe). Also,
the lexan on the doors 'may' also have been a culprit -- I bet those new
bubble doors would solve that ($$$$ always solves problems!)
In summary, I dont think wasting too much time, money on soundproofing the
aft fuselage will reap rewards as much as concentrating on the structure
immediately around the pilot's ears.
My 2 cents and worth every penny
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels , Wi
95% done removing nearly every rivet and building inventory of good parts!
Bad parts are serving as templates for new parts
912 at repair station - next week to get word on damage from prop strike! (3
hr flat rate charge)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 fuselage
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
>
> Tony,
> I am building a 701 also and plan on using quiet cote on parts of the
> interior of the fuselage. It is a FAA approved roll on sound it's
> waterbased, nontoxic, non flammable and FAA approved. I have a quart of
this
> and plan on just using enough to quiet down the problem areas.
>
> Here is the URL http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/qulida.html
>
> Ken
> 701SP 912S
> Engine installed working on the wiring.
> Just received the new bubble doors today
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Ken,
Do you know the "installed weight" of this product... How much weight
a gallon, dryed in the aluminum, will add to the plane? Just curious,
first time read about it.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Ken Szewc <szewc@cdsnet.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
>
> Tony,
> I am building a 701 also and plan on using quiet cote on parts of the
> interior of the fuselage. It is a FAA approved roll on sound it's
> waterbased, nontoxic, non flammable and FAA approved. I have a quart
> of this
> and plan on just using enough to quiet down the problem areas.
>
> Here is the URL http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/qulida.html
>
> Ken
> 701SP 912S
> Engine installed working on the wiring.
> Just received the new bubble doors today
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 fuselage
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce"
> <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
> >
> > I am building a 701 with another co-owner. We are working on the
> rear
> fuselage and are trying to discover whether additional L's should be
> riveted
> to the skins to prevent 'oil canning'. The 701 in the Zenith photo
> gallery
> shows X's between each frame, but this seems excessive. We would
> appreciate
> feedback from those of you flying the 701 as to how severe the 'oil
> canning'
> is, and what you have done to mitigate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tony Pierce
> > 701TJ #5188
> >
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Jon,
Is great to read that you are rebuilding... Good luck and patience, it
will be ready to fly soon.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Beguining work on the second 701 (tail feathers), meanwhile the
instruments are installed in the first one.
Do not archive.
--- Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
>
> During my last and only 2 hrs in the 701, I was keenly aware of the
> 'noise'
> in the cockpit. It was a bit noisier than I would have liked, and I
> think
> the noise I heard was coming from the cabin and luggage area ONLY. I
> have
> to believe that if the fuselage (way back there) was making noise, it
> was of
> little concern to me. I did have the L stringers that make a bunch of
> Z's
> installed.
>
> I recall that I found the noise coming mainly from that big metal box
> we
> call the luggage area, and as I rebuild I will definitely pay some
> attention
> to soundproofing this area using the ideas recently described. I
> also
> noticed that the thin lexan roof was also vibrating right above your
> head
> and will investigate making this more rigid (thicker material maybe).
> Also,
> the lexan on the doors 'may' also have been a culprit -- I bet those
> new
> bubble doors would solve that ($$$$ always solves problems!)
>
> In summary, I dont think wasting too much time, money on
> soundproofing the
> aft fuselage will reap rewards as much as concentrating on the
> structure
> immediately around the pilot's ears.
>
> My 2 cents and worth every penny
>
> Jon
> the aluminum butcher of Brussels , Wi
> 95% done removing nearly every rivet and building inventory of good
> parts!
> Bad parts are serving as templates for new parts
> 912 at repair station - next week to get word on damage from prop
> strike! (3
> hr flat rate charge)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 fuselage
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
> >
> > Tony,
> > I am building a 701 also and plan on using quiet cote on parts of
> the
> > interior of the fuselage. It is a FAA approved roll on sound it's
> > waterbased, nontoxic, non flammable and FAA approved. I have a
> quart of
> this
> > and plan on just using enough to quiet down the problem areas.
> >
> > Here is the URL http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/qulida.html
> >
> > Ken
> > 701SP 912S
> > Engine installed working on the wiring.
> > Just received the new bubble doors today
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Super sound proofing foam is FAR compliant, Wicks aircraft is $12.00 for 4
feet square, may be fastened with contact cement to wood or aluminum or
fiberglass. Various thickness are available the above price is for 1/2
inch thick. Page 54 in 2003 catalog. I have used lots of it in aircraft and
it works very well.
The paint on and roll on may be fine but it may also dry out and crack and
fall off. How much actual sound deadning excellent or poor---- who knows It
is a new product I think. Low cost-----heck no at 90 dollars a gallon and 35
dollars a quart.
If it were me I would go with a sure thing. I will definitly use the Foam I
have used before as it works very well in the Zodiac 601 XL that I plan to
start soon. Tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 fuselage
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
>
> Tony,
> I am building a 701 also and plan on using quiet cote on parts of the
> interior of the fuselage. It is a FAA approved roll on sound it's
> waterbased, nontoxic, non flammable and FAA approved. I have a quart of
this
> and plan on just using enough to quiet down the problem areas.
>
> Here is the URL http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/qulida.html
>
> Ken
> 701SP 912S
> Engine installed working on the wiring.
> Just received the new bubble doors today
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 fuselage
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce"
> <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
> >
> > I am building a 701 with another co-owner. We are working on the rear
> fuselage and are trying to discover whether additional L's should be
riveted
> to the skins to prevent 'oil canning'. The 701 in the Zenith photo
gallery
> shows X's between each frame, but this seems excessive. We would
appreciate
> feedback from those of you flying the 701 as to how severe the 'oil
canning'
> is, and what you have done to mitigate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tony Pierce
> > 701TJ #5188
> >
>
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Tony,
I bent some L's out of .016 (very light) and put them diagonally on the
sides between the frames. Made them for the long diagonal distance between
the frames. After finishing the rear fuselage and joining the front and
rear halves, I put the fuselage bottom on some cushion, laid a piece of foam
inside and crawled in. Once in, I used fluteing pliers to put flutes every
2 inches or so on the .016 diagonal L's and the .025 frame L's (side, top
and bottom frames). This causes the sides to bow out a bit and stiffens the
skin and stopping oil canning. I did not put diagonals on the bottom and
the first bottom panel behind the big inspection cover started to oil can.
I bent a "V" in some aluminum foil tape and put a "+" on this panel and it
stopped the rattle. ZAC has diagonal L's on the factory 701 sides.
One caution about putting foam on the skin is if it gets moisture
between it and the aluminum it could cause corrosion.
Chuck D.
N701TX
> I am building a 701 with another co-owner. We are working on the rear
fuselage and are trying to discover whether additional L's should be riveted
to the skins to prevent 'oil canning'. The 701 in the Zenith photo gallery
shows X's between each frame, but this seems excessive. We would appreciate
feedback from those of you flying the 701 as to how severe the 'oil canning'
is, and what you have done to mitigate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony Pierce
> 701TJ #5188
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Szewc" <szewc@cdsnet.net>
>
> Ken,
>
> Do you know the "installed weight" of this product... How much weight
> a gallon, dryed in the aluminum, will add to the plane? Just curious,
> first time read about it.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
Not sure of the installed weight, although I don't believe it will be that
much. Tom is right it is a new product however I used similar material used
in ducting and it works well and doesn't seem to crack or peel over time. I
am waiting until weight and balance, and getting it airborne a few times
before applying it. I only want to apply it to areas that generate noise.
The nice thing about this is you can put as little or as much as needed and
get to tough spots very easy.
The typical rule in sound proofing is the higher the density (weight) of the
material the better sound absorbtion. It is best to stop sound as close to
the source as possible. It usually takes less material than trying to stop
it farther away from the source.
One option to consider is the new double sided VHB tapes provided by 3M.
They are made to put in permanent structure without rivets or spot welds. It
would be easy to put in internal L supports with no visible external rivets
(drag). These tapes are made to be applied and painted over or applied on
painted surfaces. Since sound prevention L brackets are not structural to
flight it seems like this would work well.
http://www.3m.com/us/mfg_industrial/adhesives/vhb/
Just a thought
Ken
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
Thanks for all the response to my 'oil canning' question...we now have
several things to consider. It's really great to have this resource for
obtaining timely information as we build this airplane.
Thanks,
Tony
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|