Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:08 AM - Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer (Robert Eli)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Ron DeWees)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: engraving id on some parts (Carlos Sa)
4. 08:04 AM - Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer (lnk@cis.net)
5. 08:49 AM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Bill Howerton)
6. 10:12 AM - Re: CH 701 fuselage (Johann)
7. 12:46 PM - Re: engraving id on some parts (Jack Russell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cortec 373 versus 374 primer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
Eric,
I made a lot of phone calls and Emails, and it was surprisingly difficult to
get anyone to just tell me in practical terms what the surface preparation
should be. I finally did get complete information and will submit a full
report over the week end. Basically, the Cortec 373 can be brushed, sprayed,
or dipped, requiring only a few mils thickness to give complete protection.
New aluminum surfaces need only to be degreased (no roughing the surface
needed) using any suitable solvent degreaser. The Cortec people use methanol
(alcohol), since it is more user friendly than something like lacquer
thinner. I'm convinced that this primer is far superior to any other
alternative for my use in the tight confines of my basement.
Bob Eli
Email: robert.eli@adelphia.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Tauch
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net>
Hi Bob,
Any more info on the Cortec. I think I will just go ahead and order a
quart.
Thanks,
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
>
> I am beginning my CH701 construction and have been concerned about
> understanding priming pros and cons with respect to the Cortec products. I
> have been doing research on subject, and have talked to the Cortec people
> and to Nick at ZAC about which product is best for aircraft interior
> surfaces (he said that Cortec recommended the 373 instead of alternate
> products). This is an interim report on what I have learned. First, the
> most appropriate product is the Cortec 373 wash primer that is supplied by
> ZAC in quarts (according to the Cortec chemist and engineer). Boeing
> Aircraft Co. has used this product on some of their production aircraft
> interior surfaces, to name one usage example. The Cortec chemist does not
> recommend the 374 primer for our purposes. I am gathering specs and
surface
> preparation details, and will report more extensively on this subject as
> soon as I receive the information from Cortec.
>
>
> Bob Eli
>
> CH701
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Tony and others,
I took special interest in this thread about sound blocking since I used one
in my 601 HDS. I asked questions and posted information on the list and got
absolutely no interest so I just forgot about it till the subject came up
again.
I found a product called Noise Killer NK-118 on the internet for about
$55 a gallon and applied it with a brush to my 601 and LOVE it. It's a bit
like very thick latex paint in a light grey color. You can apply one to
three coats with a brush, roller, or sprayer. The jug of it is heavy. I
estimate it as about 10 pounds, but it's water soluble and the water alone
would account for the first 8 pounds of weght. The tech data says that the
active ingredient is CAS 74%. It claims a noise reduction of from 3db to
20db. It says it will not burn and calls itself a noise and vibration
absorber as opposed to being only a barrier. THere is an 800 number on the
website and I talked at length with a technical person there. He says it's
used by racecar drivers and is fine for airplanes. He said he thought it
was approved for certified planes but didn't send any info with the product.
I painted the inside of the fusalage from the baggage compartment to the
firewall and it's effect is dramatic. If you tap on the large panels of
unsupported aluminum you now hear a "thunk" sort of sound rather than a loud
rattle. Since it has a bit of texture if you brush it on, it will act as a
sort of interior coating to stand alone or be painted. It's also sort of a
non-skid surface and will work well in the bagage compartment to resist
items sliding around as much.
You can scrape it off it you want to remove a pop rivit from a painted
area. I expect a significant reduction in cabin noise since on the 601 you
have your head in front of the lugage compartment and it's almost like a big
bell with a lot of unsupported metal.
I used only about 3 quarts of it in painting and don't think I will put any
of it in the rear fusalage. I expect it will also act as a temperature
insulator if you paint cabin skins with it rather than upholster them.
Hope this is helpful to others as I am pleased so far with this product.
Ron DeWees
601 HDS/Jab 3300 80% done
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" <piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 fuselage
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce"
<piercetonypeggy@mail.usa.com>
>
> Thanks for all the response to my 'oil canning' question...we now have
> several things to consider. It's really great to have this resource for
> obtaining timely information as we build this airplane.
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: engraving id on some parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Eric, I asked a similar question not long ago.
The easiest thing is to mark the part whith a Sharpie pen (in two or three places,
because if you
overspray with primer, the ink may run and the identification may become hard to
read).
I did use tags as a back up last time I primed a large batch of parts, but next
time I will tag
only parts that are similar (just in case). The Sharpie marks work well.
I wouldn't engrave anything, I'm just too paranoid.
Cheers
Carlos
> I was wondering if it wouldnt be too "damaging" to engrave a very small A,B,C,D,
etc in the
> corner tip of some of
> these pieces.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cortec 373 versus 374 primer |
PRIORITY_NO_NAME
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lnk@cis.net" <lnk@cis.net>
It's interesting that this came up in the middle of the flurry of e-mails
regarding sond deadening. My question now is, how well do the various
sound deadening methods adhere to the various corrosion inhibiters?
Larry Kilburg
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Robert Eli robert.eli@adelphia.net
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
Eric,
I made a lot of phone calls and Emails, and it was surprisingly difficult to
get anyone to just tell me in practical terms what the surface preparation
should be. I finally did get complete information and will submit a full
report over the week end. Basically, the Cortec 373 can be brushed, sprayed,
or dipped, requiring only a few mils thickness to give complete protection.
New aluminum surfaces need only to be degreased (no roughing the surface
needed) using any suitable solvent degreaser. The Cortec people use methanol
(alcohol), since it is more user friendly than something like lacquer
thinner. I'm convinced that this primer is far superior to any other
alternative for my use in the tight confines of my basement.
Bob Eli
Email: robert.eli@adelphia.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CH 701 fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
I can't imagine that the L-angles and the sound-deadener could really add
that much weigh or have too much of an affect on the CG. In fact the
occasional trip to the gym for the deadweight in the left seat should more
than counteract it.
That having been said, it would seem we may be talking about two distinct
issues -- one is oil-canning - which I would thing that diagonal supports
would tend to alleviate, and vibration which I would imaging the rolled
sound deadener (or quiet-cote) would alleviate.
Are these valid assumptions? Is it unnecessary (or even a bad idea) to use
both methods? Also what is this "Z-Wave" that Larry mentioned?
Bill Howerton -N714BH (yes, I now have my N-Number)
601XL - Corvair
tail done, fuselage 75%
> > Tony,
> > I've seen several 601s and 701s that used a heavy duct tape in an X
between
> > frames to minimize the oil-canning
> > and was told that it worked rather well. The diagonal framing on the
other
> > hand will leave you with a Z-wave that
> > is very predominant in the summer sun if that matters, but doubt that
will
> > solve the oil canning as well as a contact
> > adhesive, tape, spray or padding.
> >
> > Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
> >
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Hello list members.
I am sorry to say that my plane is still standing in the garage and
needs an engine to try out the "L" stiffeners. I am at a point in the
building, where a lot of money is needed to complete. Hope something
will happen next summer. (Lottery or something like that)
Happy building,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Hey Tony,
Check out Johann's site (click on Zenith on the side bar, then fuselage
at the top)
http://www.gi.is/fis/
he has also added some strigers to prevent oil canning. I am thinking
that I am going to do the same. I see Larry was talking about some users
using tape with good results. I can't say which is best. Maybe Johann
will chime in and give his results.
Good Luck,
Keith
CH701
a long ways to go (only 170% more)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: engraving id on some parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
The easiest thing is to mark the part whith a Sharpie pen (in two or three places,
because if you
overspray with primer, the ink may run and the identification may become hard to
read).
By the way, I found that the fat sharpies will run with the primer and the fine
point sharpies don't. Go figure.
Jack Russell
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