---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/10/03: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:16 AM - WLAS... (Matt Dralle) 2. 06:23 AM - Re: 801: Assembling Firewall, Custom Engine Mount (Gary Liming) 3. 06:52 AM - 701 Fuselage (ruruNY@aol.com) 4. 07:52 AM - Re: 801: Assembling Firewall, Custom Engine Mount Fabrication (Larry Landucci) 5. 08:03 AM - 701 Fuselage people only (RURUNY@aol.com) 6. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/08/03 (Roger Roy) 7. 10:55 AM - Re: 701 Fuselage people only (Elwood140@aol.com) 8. 12:22 PM - Re: 701 Fuselage people only (RURUNY@aol.com) 9. 01:49 PM - Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS (Shay King) 10. 03:19 PM - Re: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS (Beckman, Rick) 11. 03:30 PM - Re: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 12. 03:57 PM - Re: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS (Ron DeWees) 13. 04:50 PM - Re: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS (Gary Gower) 14. 06:21 PM - 601XL 912S GSC performance info (Frank Jones) 15. 08:27 PM - Re: another first flight CH 701 912ULS (Dabusmith@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:54 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: WLAS... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Below are some of the nice things people have been saying about the Lists in that little message box on the Contribution form! Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!! If you haven't yet shown your support for these Lists, won't you take a moment and make your Contribution today? The Matronics Lists are always Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, and High-performance and its your direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that enables all of these valuable services you've come to expect. Thank you for your Contribution!! SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution Matt Dralle EMail List Administrator ================================================================ =================== What Listers Are Saying ==================== ================================================================ You provide a service to us kit builders that cannot be measured. -Clifford M. ...great service to the aviation community. -Curt R. Thanks for being there - your List has really been of help. -Thomas R. Your lists have been most helpful to my RV-9A project. -Dean V. ...has been a great help to me. -Jim N. ..."must-have" for RV builders and pilots. -Douglas W. I find something every day on the List that helps me in my project. -Ron P. ...very valuable! -Patrick L. Don't know that I could have persevered and succeeded without the List. -Curt R. ...service continues to be awesome and is one of the most helpful resources for homebuilding that I have ever found. -Jim H. The information and hours of entertainment many of us derive from the Lists is priceless. -Chris R. I learn a lot about my [aircraft] through the Lists... - Lee P. Great source of education and entertainment. Love it!!! -Lar B. Great List & very well organized. -Peter D. I couldn't build my [airplane] without this List. -William G. The List is an important part of my daily routine. -Roger H. ...incredible resource. -Ron P. Excellent facility. -David M. ...unmatched service to all builders and flyers. -Ralph C. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:44 AM PST US From: Gary Liming Fabrication Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801: Assembling Firewall, Custom Engine Mount Fabrication --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming Fabrication At 11:18 AM 11/9/2003 -0500, you wrote: >When assembling the 801's firewall the manual( >http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/data/new/801forward-fuselage-section2.pdf >) cover page refers to using AS5 or A5 rivets. However, subsequent >pages only refer to AS5 rivets. What have folks been using, the >stainless steel rivets or plain A5's? Definitely use the AS5's. You'll need a strong squeezer, though. Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive manual one that does the job. Make sure you put them all in before mounting anything, because the manual squeezer is pretty large. Its #41291-0VGA and $17. >Also, for those who have built their own engine mounts, how did you >distribute the weight among the 4 firewall bolts? Did you use the >possible top fifth center mount location as part of the system of load >bearing or just for stabilizing? Any discussion is appreciated as I >have used only 2 dimensional equations The upper "fifth" mount bolts are crucial to transmit any nose landing forces to the cabin frame, and the rest of the fuselage, as well as help to suspend the engine. IMHO, any mount should include those. Gary Liming, 801 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:34 AM PST US From: ruruNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Fuselage --> Zenith-List message posted by: ruruNY@aol.com Here are some pics of the x bracing on my fuselage. The Zenith Demo 701 does not have this bracing last time I saw it(Oshkosh 2002) but they had a chek 701 that had the x bracing and it looked great. ********* VIEW PICTURES Brian Unruh is sharing pictures with you using Shutterfly, the leading online photo service. To view Brian Unruh's pictures at Shutterfly, simply go to: http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b354c911651a (If you can't click on this link, try copying and pasting it into your web browser.) WANT FILM-QUALITY PRINTS FROM YOUR DIGITAL CAMERA? Join Shutterfly and get 15 FREE 4x6 prints delivered to your door. Plus get free photosharing and online storage. Join today for FREE! http://www.shutterfly.com/jump/sign_up.jsp?cid=XS5SHAR2SUM NEED HELP? If you have any questions about this message, please use our convenient Customer Service contact form at: http://www.shutterfly.com/support/form8.jsp ************************************* Shutterfly Where your pictures live http://www.shutterfly.com/ Pictures for you! View pictures (1 of 71 pictures) from the Shutterfly album of Brian Unruh From:Brian Unruh Subject:701 Fuselage Here are some pics of the x bracing on my fuselage. The Zenith Demo 701 does not have this bracing last time I saw it(Oshkosh 2002) but they had a chek 701 that had the x bracing and it looked great. View pictures Welcome to Shutterfly the best place to: Get film-quality prints Share pictures online Create cards and gifts Not yet a member? Get 15 4x6 prints FREE when you open your own Shutterfly account today. Join now! (its free) If the View pictures button doesnt work, copy and paste this link into your browser: http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b354c911651a Questions? http://www.shutterfly.com/support/form8.jsp ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801: Assembling Firewall, Custom Engine Mount Fabrication From: Larry Landucci --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry Landucci I also used the AS5 rivets -- they are definitely much stronger than the A5 rivets ( and much more difficult to remove). As ZAC tells you in the manual, you should not use the pneumatic riveter that they sell because you may crack the casing. They give a reference to a heavy duty manual riveter obtainable from Harbor Freight (SKU # 41291) which sells for about $15. It is very easy to use -- much easier than trying to pull an ordinary A5 rivet with a typical hand riveter. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:20 AM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Fuselage people only --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Guys, I have posted some pics on a shutterfly slide show of the fuselage x bracing on my fuselage. I decided to do this after seeing it on a yellow chek built 701 at Oshkosh 2002 and thought it looked good. The zenith 701 demo did not have this bracing at that time. I will use the foam or spray mentioned in posts around the baggage compartment to deaden the noises comming from there. I recently replaced a stainless steel sink in my kitchen with a new deeper one. While looking at new ones at home depot I noticed that they had a thin foam sprayed on the back sides. At first I did not know what it was for but when removing the old sink I noticed it did not have the spray. The new sink did not clang or clong when you tapped it with your knuckle or with dishes as the old one did, it is much quieter even though it is deeper and like someone said a big bell. The recent news about jammed flight controls due to FOD has made me concerned about glueing anything under the seat or in the rear fuselage. As the headliner in my Dodge truck proves, glue can come off , and if it was a piece of foam glued up in the fuselage it could come off and get cought up in a bell crank, cable, pushrod or pully. I looked at the x bracing being riveted in as secure and a good way to stop the oilcanning of the large expanses of the thin .016 skin , thats all. Also I wrote to Zenith and asked them what they thought about doing this. They said it was OK to do but he recomended that on the 701 the L angles intersect the longerons. I noticed the 701 construction pics on the zenith web site had shown this but on the 801 assembly manuals the L s did not. Nick cleared this up. If you decide to do this here is a couple tips. The x bracing will not be able to intersect the vertical braces.You will have to intersect the longeron 1 rivet away from the vertical braces. This is because you have to put in gussets at the corners of those braces after the fuselage is riveted together. Lay out all the L angle x braces when drilling your longerons to the skins but do not rivet them in. They will get in the way of drilling in the gussets while squaring the riveted fuselage. When riveting longerons to skins do not rivet holes where x braces intersect longerons.I riveted all in after all gussets and work back there was finished. I put the bottom x bracing in when I did not have to crawl back there again. I did not put any on top. and 1st area away from fwd H frame was not an x but a diagonal. Sorry this is a late responce and Sorry I dragged on here Brian SN 4831 Long Island NY http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i67b0de21b354c911651a .............I am building a 701 with another co-owner.=A0 We are working on the rear fuselage and are trying to discover whether additional L's should be riveted to the skins to prevent 'oil canning'.=A0 The 701 in the Zenith photo gallery shows X's between each frame, but this seems excessive.=A0 We would appreciate feedback from those of you flying the 701 as to how severe the 'oil canning' is, and what you have done to mitigate it. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:23 AM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/08/03 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:48:52 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Sorry Elbie tis not I. Roger J. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: RiteAngle3@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 7:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/08/03 --> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com In a message dated 11/9/03 12:02:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes: Roger J. Roy CH-701/912S Is this the Roger Roy that was an AirCal pilot prior to AA buying us in '87? Elbie Mendenhall EM aviation retired AA ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:55:32 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Fuselage people only --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com In a message dated 11/10/2003 10:06:30 AM Central Standard Time, RURUNY@aol.com writes: http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i67b0de21b354c911651a Brian, shutterfly says this is an incomplete url. Can you help? Do Not archive Larry Wood N701LW reserved ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:45 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Fuselage people only --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Keith, Sorry about the link try: http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b354c911651a Brian In a message dated 11/10/2003 1:32:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, keith.ashcraft@itt.com writes: > Hey Brian, > I responded to you directly instead of going through the Matrionics > group. It seems the link to your pictures has an incomplete address. > Could you try sending the URL again, > > Thanks and Good luck!! > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:35 PM PST US From: "Shay King" Subject: Zenith-List: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Shay King" Dear Listers, After 3 years and an embarrassing number of building hours I flew my 701 for the first time this morning. Everything seems to work OK, just had to tape over the oil cooler to get the temp up to normal range. Did 4 flights in all today totalling 1 hr 16 min. Thanks to all you guys on the list who helped out over the 3 years. Thanks to Nick at Zenair for answering all those questions, and a special thanks to Marek at CZAW for answering so many questions and providing encouragement along the way. Regards, Shay King. CH701 Reg: EI - SMK Possibly the first one to fly in Ireland. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:15 PM PST US From: "Beckman, Rick" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" Dear Listers, After 3 years and an embarrassing number of building hours I flew my 701 for the first time this morning. Everything seems to work OK, just had to tape over the oil cooler to get the temp up to normal range. Did 4 flights in all today totalling 1 hr 16 min. Heeeey!!! Congratulations!! Don't be sorry about the time put in building. All that matters, aside being done, is that you know it is safe and you did it! Way to go!!!! Rick Beckman 601 XL ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:23 PM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Wow Shay, another one takes to the skies!!!!! Congrats. Smoooooth landings Fred do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:51 PM PST US From: "Ron DeWees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" Ditto here Shay, Great news to hear that somebody is in the light at the end of the tunnel. Congratulations! Give us more information about the flight and performance when you calm down! Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" > > Wow Shay, another one takes to the skies!!!!! Congrats. > > Smoooooth landings > > Fred > > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:34 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another First Flight-CH701/912ULS --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Shay, That is great! 701 are coming to live all over the world... Congratulations. Keep in touch with reports about your flying. We have another 701 builder in our city (Miguel Angel Orozco), there are going to be 3 701 kit builts. Saludos Gary Gower All the instruments ready, just working on the Navaid Autopilot instalation... Do not archive --- Shay King wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Shay King" > > Dear Listers, > After 3 years and an embarrassing number of building hours I flew my > 701 for the first time this morning. Everything seems to work OK, > just had to tape over the oil cooler to get the temp up to normal > range. Did 4 flights in all today totalling 1 hr 16 min. > > Thanks to all you guys on the list who helped out over the 3 years. > Thanks to Nick at Zenair for answering all those questions, and a > special thanks to Marek at CZAW for answering so many questions and > providing encouragement along the way. > > Regards, > Shay King. CH701 Reg: EI - SMK Possibly the first one to fly > in Ireland. > > > > _-> > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:23 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL 912S GSC performance info --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Just thought I'd pass on this tidbit re my configuration. So far 7.5 hours and all is well. I've played a bit with prop pitch on the provided GSC ground adjustable prop. I have found that 19 degrees produces good climb rate and the engine doesn't rev like crazy. Here are my readings so far: 3 degrees Celsius OAT Weight 1080 lbs Prop pitch 19 degrees Climb at 80 Statute MPH 1500-1700 fpm RPM at full throttle climb is 5200-5300 Cruise at 4800 RPM 110 Statute MPH Max cruise estimate 130+ (haven't gone that fast yet) Frank Jones C-GYXQ 601XL 912S Ottawa ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:38 PM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: another first flight CH 701 912ULS --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com >Shay King. CH701 Reg: EI - SMK Possibly the first one to fly in Ireland. Wow! That must be beautiful. Congratulations Shay! Dave Smith N701XL Graham WA. Doing 25 hour oil change.