Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:23 AM - Re: At Home or Away? (Phil Raker)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: Dimpled floating nut plates (Ed Kramer)
3. 06:08 AM - Battery location on HDS w Jab 3300 (charles.long@gm.com)
4. 06:42 AM - Prop Clearance.. (Bima, Martin)
5. 07:00 AM - aileron hinges (Bob Miller)
6. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: At Home or Away? (Thomas F Marson)
7. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: At Home or Away? (Dave Pepper)
8. 10:50 AM - Hanger at home (H. Robert Schoenberger)
9. 02:40 PM - Re: aileron hinges (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
10. 03:49 PM - Re: Hanger at home (Thomas F Marson)
11. 04:27 PM - Re: Hanger at home (Dave Pepper)
12. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: aileron hinges (Dave Austin)
13. 06:17 PM - New 912 prices! (Jon Croke)
14. 10:30 PM - Re: Prop Clearance.. (Edward T. Jeffko)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: At Home or Away? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> If you're looking to be a social butterfly, keep your plane at an airport,
> with its high tiedown/hangar costs. If you want true independence, have your
> own airstrip and fly from home.
Hello,
There is another alternative to be considered. In most parts of the
country, there can be found (with a little bit of searching) residential
airparks, which are subdivisions where the streets are the taxiways. You can
live AT the airport right beside your hangar, and someone else maintains the
runways. They are available in just about every price range you could imagine.
(This one, Y91, is less expensive than most.) That was the decision I made,
about a year ago. I'm still building, not yet flying, but there are other
builders & pilots here for sociability, and when the Zenith is complete, I can
fly from home. It can be the best of both worlds.
Phil Raker, N556P, HDS/Stratus ~80% complete, at Home Acres Sky Ranch (Y91)
__________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dimpled floating nut plates |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
Mark,
I'm not sure what you mean by bottom countersunk nutplates. The
nutplates can be dimpled to accept a countersunk rivet head (AN426), then
the piece underneath has to be dimpled to accept the nutplate. Avery Tools
sells a small diameter female dimple die that will fit next to the nutplate
stud and dimple the nutplate with little effort. I used this method to
install inspection panels on the wings for my 701.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701
edair701@adelphia.net
Build Status:
Completed: Rudder,
Left wing, Right wing.
Starting flaperons
Subject: Zenith-List: Dimpled floating nut plates
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
<mark.stauffer@comcast.net>
>
> Does anyone happen to have a source for dimpled or "bottom countersunk"
nut
> plates? I did find a source for the non floating ones - Aircraft
Fasteners,
> Inc. I checked with Aircraft Spruce and with their suppliers to no avail.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Battery location on HDS w Jab 3300 |
11/13/2003 09:07:55 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
I've just forked out a bunch of money for the Jab 3300 & XL fire wall
forward kit. Hope I made the right decision. A question for those taking
the same route on their HDS's. With the two extra cylinders way out in
front (as compared to the 912s installation), can you still mount the
battery on the forward side of the firewall or does it need to be placed
farther back? Also, how much of a hit are we taking on weight as compared
to the 912s? Thanks, can't wait to pick up my engine!
Chuck Long
N601LE, 85% complete
Message 4
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| Subject: | Prop Clearance.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
Deflate your nose tire.
Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably not
have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
Just my 2 cents.
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair 701
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
Prop Clearance..
Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
Deflate your nose tire.
Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably not have
a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
Just my 2 cents.
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair 701
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Hi guys,
There's been some commentary here about aileron resistance on the stick with the
regular non-hinge attachment.
Can anybody say whether piano hinges allow easier aileron range of movement?
Thanks,
Bob Miller
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: At Home or Away? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
absolutely, the Airpark is a great alternative. Only caveat------ be sure
before you fly that they are registered with the State and are licensed for
continued operation with no time limit.
Riveria airpark not over 15 miles from me had a nice 3000 foot grass runway
and 26 homes with built in and /or free standing hangars. It had been in
operation as a field for 40 plus years and as an airpark for about 10. A new
person built a home not to distant from the end of the runway and decided
she didn't like planes (even though she new about the airpark before she
built). She got some advocates (easy to get) Greenpeace, Audubon club and
the like. After over 50,000 in lawyering fees and hearings and court cases
over 3 years the field is now closed. Yes closed (hangars useless). If
fact at the New Richmond Airport the fellow who build his new hangar for his
beautiful Swift and Cessna 195 next to my hangar is a refugee from the
Riveria airpark. He finally gave up and sold his home (don't know if it
sold at a loss) do know it sold to a non pilot.
HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?????
I happened because the original land owner assumed he was grandfathered in
because he had been flying his plane out of his Alfalfa field for 30 years
and felt he was grandfathered in. He never bothered to get state approval,
there was no township or County approval either------no approval either.
Sure the township had approved building permits for all the houses and
hangars. No one raised the issue until one disagreeable neighbor did. These
days it is very easy to get well heeled support from the Tree huggers -----
and it was off and running.
The State of Wisconsin Dot told me there are lots of unregistered strips in
Wisconsin the know of lots of them and are sure they don't know of all of
them. Usually unless someone raises an issue they look the other
way. ---------------- the problem is as more and more people move out to
suburbia there are more people who raise issues. You probably have all
heard of people who moved from the city to the country for all the peace
and quiet and then decided they don't want the noise of the farmers tractors
or smell of farm operations.
This life in America today.
Tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Raker" <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>
>
> > If you're looking to be a social butterfly, keep your plane at an
airport,
> > with its high tiedown/hangar costs. If you want true independence, have
your
> > own airstrip and fly from home.
>
> Hello,
> There is another alternative to be considered. In most parts of the
> country, there can be found (with a little bit of searching) residential
> airparks, which are subdivisions where the streets are the taxiways. You
can
> live AT the airport right beside your hangar, and someone else maintains
the
> runways. They are available in just about every price range you could
imagine.
> (This one, Y91, is less expensive than most.) That was the decision I
made,
> about a year ago. I'm still building, not yet flying, but there are other
> builders & pilots here for sociability, and when the Zenith is complete, I
can
> fly from home. It can be the best of both worlds.
>
> Phil Raker, N556P, HDS/Stratus ~80% complete, at Home Acres Sky Ranch
(Y91)
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: At Home or Away? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
It's not the tree huggers that are the problem. It's the suburbanites who
come to the country on weekends to get away from their cookie cutter homes
and mass of humanity, and look for a place to drive their gas guzzling
off-road SUVs. And they bring all their rules, CC&R's, etc, so they can
duplicate their city life in the country. Its not the country folk who are
against aircraft operations.....it's the suburb dweller. These are the same
people who call the police in a small country town to have neighbor's
barking dogs silenced!!!!
Where I built my home, pilots use the gravel roads, which divide land
sections, as their runways. Some of these roads don't even belong to anyone
since they're technically public easements. They just land and park their
planes in front of their houses. Of course, this is renegade Arizona, not
overbuilt New Jersey!
I still think having remote land with your own runway is the ultimate in
freedom. Otherwise, an established airpark with paved runway, where the
governing board consists of aviation-friendly people, is next best.
To each his, or her, own.
Dave
C-ICDO 601HD/912ULS
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
wrote:
absolutely, the Airpark is a great alternative. Only caveat------ be sure
before you fly that they are registered with the State and are licensed for
continued operation with no time limit.
List . . . I'm no where near ready to fly my 701, but in anticipation of doing
so, my wife and I have purchased 34 acres so we can have a 1,200 ft. strip with
hanger and a new home. There are several factors that were considered.
We are getting up there in years, and the home we built 4 years ago is gradually
becoming outdated for our needs. We look forward to a first floor master, room
for the grandbabies which weren't around when we built the last time, a bigger
airplane factory in the basement with walkout doors out, and a different
home design with no living room / formal dining room.
I just know I'll fly more when the plane is right at my home. I had a Piper Dakota
for some years, and it was a hassle to drive the 30 minutes to the airport,
pull the plane out of the hanger, preflight, fly for an hour, and reverse the
process. By the time I got back home, 2 1/2 to 3 hours had elapsed.
The same goes with building one's plane at a location other than right at home
in the basement or garage. If you've got to drive to a site, then the inclination
will be not to go when you only have about an hour of spare time.
On the subject of airparks, Ben Sclair of GA - the general aviation newspaper -
is an expert on the subject. He publishes an airpark directory and includes
an occasional airpark article in GA. He's also related some horror talkes like
the one recently posted on this list. One can't be too careful in buying into
an airpark, and a bit of attorney time will probably be money well spent.
GA, if you're not familiar with it, is a great newspaper with a wide variety
of articles. He's always at a booth at OSH and Sun n Fun.
What's wrong with flying to the nearby airport for the social aspects if that's
what you want? It's better than driving. Many of the airports I visit have
no one there most of the time.
That's my two cents worth FWIW. I guess it's different strokes for different folks.
Hap Schoenberger, 701 tail build, working on right wing.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: aileron hinges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
> Can anybody say whether piano hinges allow easier aileron range of
movement?
++ It would will be at full-stick movement (and that would be the only area
that would have enough resistance to talk about). If you are going to apply
even 1/2 of the total throw suddenly, you'd better be braced for a very
quick roll rate. The full length ailerons are so efficient that 1/4" to
3/8" deflections will give you a very crisp turns with very little effort on
the stick. Easy to fly, but not touchy, a number of Zodie drivers say they
sometimes fly with their arms relaxed on the center arm rest, and just use
their finger tips.
Fred
100 hours....... love it!
Jabiru 3300/601HDS
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger at home |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
----- > What's wrong with flying to the nearby airport for the social
aspects if that's what you want? It's better than driving. Many of the
airports I visit have no one there most of the time.
The social aspects I am refering to come while in the hangar working on the
plane. I personally spend lots of time doing that ------ normal maintenance
and modifying or what have you. The social aspects just happen then. I don't
imagine I would ever likely drive to an airport just to meet people there or
fly to one for the same reasons. But whatever turns one on is ok. Tom
>
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger at home |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
> The social aspects I am refering to come while in the hangar working on
the
> plane. I personally spend lots of time doing that ------ normal
maintenance
I actually was building a Long Eze in a hangar years ago. Without fail, my
hangar partner would show up both weekend days and talk incessantly....so
much so that I never got any work done! Now I know why it takes 10 years to
build a plane! I had to sell the project because the socializing bordered on
the ridiculous! I vowed never to do that again.
Now, I'm building my plane on my porch, with a view for a hundred miles all
around, and no visitors. For me, this is the only way to go. If I really
feel the need to have that $100 hamburger, I broil one up on the grill, and
eat while talking to my horses! :{) When the plane is done, I can fly into
Sedona for a really expensive burger...from my own airstrip! :{) no hangar
fees, and all the auto gas I care to store, which is much cheaper than 100LL
and better for the old Rotax.
It all depends what you're looking for. I love independence, and being alone
is not a problem. And my project will be completed much more quickly at home
that at an airport.
Regard.....Dave
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: aileron hinges |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
I flew for four years with the "bending metal" hinge and found there was a
significant imbalance between pitch (very sensitive) and roll (used BIG
muscles). Not normally a problem, but could have been better.
So when I changed to HDS wings from the original HD wings I went with a
hinge.
Definitely somewhat lighter and easier to get max deflection on those rare
occasions.
Would I go hinge again? Definitely.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 - 475 hrs
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Just talked to Lockwood this morning and discovered that for an 'unspecified
time' the price of a new 912UL is $9,500.00 and the 912ULS is 11,999.00.
That's a drop of about $2000 for the 912 and $1000 for the S. Any marketing
types give a clue as to what is happening here? Slow sales? Maybe the new
'owners'? This is certainly a significant drop and good news for new
buyers.Wonder why they are being hazy on the time limit?
How did I stumble on this tidbit? The bad news for me is that I just got
word from LEAF Rotax mechanic that my crank is bent from my little tree
collision. He was surprised, initially thinking I should have survived this
incident. For those who dont know, replacement of a bad crank on a 912 will
get you estimates of over $6000 for a repair! (crank is 3200, gasket set
about 800, prop shaft 600, and about 24 hours labor @ 60 for another 1500
( I'm rounding these numbers)) My engine 'as is' is worth 2000 to Lockwood
for parts (!) So if I do the math: a new 912 is $9500 less 2000 for the old
resulting in $7500, -or- put over 6000 into rebuild of old engine. For
about a grand I'd want a new engine! But it is all of no consequence
because I dont have that kind of $$$ anyway! Oh, maybe a loan!? Never!
Anyone interested in a complete 912 with 100 hrs and a bad crank and prop
shaft... your offer has to be more than Lockwood's!
Jon Croke
The Aluminum butcher from (you know where...!)
N701US
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Clearance.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward T. Jeffko" <riovista@bossig.com>
If you really have a vair in your 701, how about some pertinent info.
Weights, power, performance, etc.
Ed
> From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:41:18 -0600
> To: "'zenith-list@matronics.com'" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance..
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
>
> Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
>
> Deflate your nose tire.
> Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
> If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably not
> have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
>
> If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
>
> If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
> Martin Bima
> STOL-Vair 701
>
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
>
>
> <META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
> Prop Clearance..
>
>
> Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
>
>
> Deflate your nose tire.
>
> Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
>
> If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably not
> have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
>
>
> If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
>
>
> If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
> Martin Bima
>
> STOL-Vair 701
>
>
>
>
>
>
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