Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:00 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/13/03 (Thomas F Marson)
2. 07:01 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/13/03 (Thomas F Marson)
3. 09:20 AM - Jabiru 2200 on a 601HD (Bob Miller)
4. 09:45 AM - elevator cables. 701 (Gary Gower)
5. 09:49 AM - [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? (Matt Dralle)
6. 12:45 PM - Tension on cables (Jack Russell)
7. 01:09 PM - Re: New 912 prices! (Dave Pepper)
8. 02:05 PM - Re: New 912 prices! (Ron DeWees)
9. 02:26 PM - Re: New 912 prices! (Graham Kirby)
10. 02:28 PM - Re: New 912 prices! (Dave Pepper)
11. 04:12 PM - Re: New 912 prices! (Gary Gower)
12. 05:01 PM - rudder fairleads (Jack Russell)
13. 07:10 PM - More 701 rudder cable soap box (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
14. 11:55 PM - Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer (Thilo Kind)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/13/03 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zenith-List Digest Server" <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/13/03
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2003-11-13.ht
ml
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2003-11-13.tx
t
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Zenith-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 11/13/03: 14
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 05:23 AM - Re: At Home or Away? (Phil Raker)
> 2. 05:45 AM - Re: Dimpled floating nut plates (Ed Kramer)
> 3. 06:08 AM - Battery location on HDS w Jab 3300
(charles.long@gm.com)
> 4. 06:42 AM - Prop Clearance.. (Bima, Martin)
> 5. 07:00 AM - aileron hinges (Bob Miller)
> 6. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: At Home or Away? (Thomas F Marson)
> 7. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: At Home or Away? (Dave Pepper)
> 8. 10:50 AM - Hanger at home (H. Robert Schoenberger)
> 9. 02:40 PM - Re: aileron hinges (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
> 10. 03:49 PM - Re: Hanger at home (Thomas F Marson)
> 11. 04:27 PM - Re: Hanger at home (Dave Pepper)
> 12. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: aileron hinges (Dave Austin)
> 13. 06:17 PM - New 912 prices! (Jon Croke)
> 14. 10:30 PM - Re: Prop Clearance.. (Edward T. Jeffko)
>
>
>Hi Dave, I believe the registration you list for your 601 on you emails is
Canadian yet your home and strip. Am I correct in this? Tom
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:23:45 AM PST US
> From: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>
>
> > If you're looking to be a social butterfly, keep your plane at an
airport,
> > with its high tiedown/hangar costs. If you want true independence, have
your
> > own airstrip and fly from home.
>
> Hello,
> There is another alternative to be considered. In most parts of the
> country, there can be found (with a little bit of searching) residential
> airparks, which are subdivisions where the streets are the taxiways. You
can
> live AT the airport right beside your hangar, and someone else maintains
the
> runways. They are available in just about every price range you could
imagine.
> (This one, Y91, is less expensive than most.) That was the decision I
made,
> about a year ago. I'm still building, not yet flying, but there are other
> builders & pilots here for sociability, and when the Zenith is complete, I
can
> fly from home. It can be the best of both worlds.
>
> Phil Raker, N556P, HDS/Stratus ~80% complete, at Home Acres Sky Ranch
(Y91)
>
> __________________________________
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:45:55 AM PST US
> From: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dimpled floating nut plates
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
>
> Mark,
> I'm not sure what you mean by bottom countersunk nutplates. The
> nutplates can be dimpled to accept a countersunk rivet head (AN426), then
> the piece underneath has to be dimpled to accept the nutplate. Avery Tools
> sells a small diameter female dimple die that will fit next to the
nutplate
> stud and dimple the nutplate with little effort. I used this method to
> install inspection panels on the wings for my 701.
>
> Ed Kramer
> West Seneca, NY
> CH 701
> edair701@adelphia.net
> Build Status:
> Completed: Rudder,
> Left wing, Right wing.
> Starting flaperons
>
>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Dimpled floating nut plates
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
> <mark.stauffer@comcast.net>
> >
> > Does anyone happen to have a source for dimpled or "bottom countersunk"
> nut
> > plates? I did find a source for the non floating ones - Aircraft
> Fasteners,
> > Inc. I checked with Aircraft Spruce and with their suppliers to no
avail.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:08:19 AM PST US
> Subject: Zenith-List: Battery location on HDS w Jab 3300
> From: charles.long@gm.com
> 11/13/2003 09:07:55 AM
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
>
> I've just forked out a bunch of money for the Jab 3300 & XL fire
wall
> forward kit. Hope I made the right decision. A question for those taking
> the same route on their HDS's. With the two extra cylinders way out in
> front (as compared to the 912s installation), can you still mount the
> battery on the forward side of the firewall or does it need to be placed
> farther back? Also, how much of a hit are we taking on weight as compared
> to the 912s? Thanks, can't wait to pick up my engine!
>
> Chuck Long
> N601LE, 85% complete
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:42:18 AM PST US
> From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance..
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
>
> Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
>
> Deflate your nose tire.
> Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
> If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably
not
> have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
>
> If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
>
> If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
> Martin Bima
> STOL-Vair 701
>
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
>
>
> <META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
> Prop Clearance..
>
>
> Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
>
>
> Deflate your nose tire.
>
> Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
>
> If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably
not have
> a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
>
>
> If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
>
>
> If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
> Martin Bima
>
> STOL-Vair 701
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:00:50 AM PST US
> From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: aileron hinges
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
<drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Hi guys,
> There's been some commentary here about aileron resistance on the stick
with the
> regular non-hinge attachment.
> Can anybody say whether piano hinges allow easier aileron range of
movement?
> Thanks,
> Bob Miller
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:20:23 AM PST US
> From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
> absolutely, the Airpark is a great alternative. Only caveat------ be sure
> before you fly that they are registered with the State and are licensed
for
> continued operation with no time limit.
>
> Riveria airpark not over 15 miles from me had a nice 3000 foot grass
runway
> and 26 homes with built in and /or free standing hangars. It had been in
> operation as a field for 40 plus years and as an airpark for about 10. A
new
> person built a home not to distant from the end of the runway and decided
> she didn't like planes (even though she new about the airpark before she
> built). She got some advocates (easy to get) Greenpeace, Audubon club and
> the like. After over 50,000 in lawyering fees and hearings and court cases
> over 3 years the field is now closed. Yes closed (hangars useless). If
> fact at the New Richmond Airport the fellow who build his new hangar for
his
> beautiful Swift and Cessna 195 next to my hangar is a refugee from the
> Riveria airpark. He finally gave up and sold his home (don't know if it
> sold at a loss) do know it sold to a non pilot.
>
> HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?????
>
> I happened because the original land owner assumed he was grandfathered in
> because he had been flying his plane out of his Alfalfa field for 30 years
> and felt he was grandfathered in. He never bothered to get state
approval,
> there was no township or County approval either------no approval either.
> Sure the township had approved building permits for all the houses and
> hangars. No one raised the issue until one disagreeable neighbor did.
These
> days it is very easy to get well heeled support from the Tree
huggers -----
> and it was off and running.
>
> The State of Wisconsin Dot told me there are lots of unregistered strips
in
> Wisconsin the know of lots of them and are sure they don't know of all of
> them. Usually unless someone raises an issue they look the other
> way. ---------------- the problem is as more and more people move out to
> suburbia there are more people who raise issues. You probably have all
> heard of people who moved from the city to the country for all the peace
> and quiet and then decided they don't want the noise of the farmers
tractors
> or smell of farm operations.
>
> This life in America today.
>
> Tom Marson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Raker" <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > > If you're looking to be a social butterfly, keep your plane at an
> airport,
> > > with its high tiedown/hangar costs. If you want true independence,
have
> your
> > > own airstrip and fly from home.
> >
> > Hello,
> > There is another alternative to be considered. In most parts of
the
> > country, there can be found (with a little bit of searching) residential
> > airparks, which are subdivisions where the streets are the taxiways.
You
> can
> > live AT the airport right beside your hangar, and someone else maintains
> the
> > runways. They are available in just about every price range you could
> imagine.
> > (This one, Y91, is less expensive than most.) That was the decision I
> made,
> > about a year ago. I'm still building, not yet flying, but there are
other
> > builders & pilots here for sociability, and when the Zenith is complete,
I
> can
> > fly from home. It can be the best of both worlds.
> >
> > Phil Raker, N556P, HDS/Stratus ~80% complete, at Home Acres Sky Ranch
> (Y91)
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:57:46 AM PST US
> From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
<rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> It's not the tree huggers that are the problem. It's the suburbanites who
> come to the country on weekends to get away from their cookie cutter homes
> and mass of humanity, and look for a place to drive their gas guzzling
> off-road SUVs. And they bring all their rules, CC&R's, etc, so they can
> duplicate their city life in the country. Its not the country folk who are
> against aircraft operations.....it's the suburb dweller. These are the
same
> people who call the police in a small country town to have neighbor's
> barking dogs silenced!!!!
>
> Where I built my home, pilots use the gravel roads, which divide land
> sections, as their runways. Some of these roads don't even belong to
anyone
> since they're technically public easements. They just land and park their
> planes in front of their houses. Of course, this is renegade Arizona, not
> overbuilt New Jersey!
>
> I still think having remote land with your own runway is the ultimate in
> freedom. Otherwise, an established airpark with paved runway, where the
> governing board consists of aviation-friendly people, is next best.
>
> To each his, or her, own.
>
> Dave
> C-ICDO 601HD/912ULS
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:50:56 AM PST US
> From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Hanger at home
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger"
<HRS4@prodigy.net>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
> wrote:
> absolutely, the Airpark is a great alternative. Only caveat------ be sure
> before you fly that they are registered with the State and are licensed
for
> continued operation with no time limit.
>
> List . . . I'm no where near ready to fly my 701, but in anticipation of
doing
> so, my wife and I have purchased 34 acres so we can have a 1,200 ft. strip
with
> hanger and a new home. There are several factors that were considered.
>
> We are getting up there in years, and the home we built 4 years ago is
gradually
> becoming outdated for our needs. We look forward to a first floor master,
room
> for the grandbabies which weren't around when we built the last time, a
bigger
> airplane factory in the basement with walkout doors out, and a different
> home design with no living room / formal dining room.
>
> I just know I'll fly more when the plane is right at my home. I had a
Piper Dakota
> for some years, and it was a hassle to drive the 30 minutes to the
airport,
> pull the plane out of the hanger, preflight, fly for an hour, and reverse
the
> process. By the time I got back home, 2 1/2 to 3 hours had elapsed.
>
> The same goes with building one's plane at a location other than right at
home
> in the basement or garage. If you've got to drive to a site, then the
inclination
> will be not to go when you only have about an hour of spare time.
>
> On the subject of airparks, Ben Sclair of GA - the general aviation
newspaper -
> is an expert on the subject. He publishes an airpark directory and
includes
> an occasional airpark article in GA. He's also related some horror talkes
like
> the one recently posted on this list. One can't be too careful in buying
into
> an airpark, and a bit of attorney time will probably be money well spent.
> GA, if you're not familiar with it, is a great newspaper with a wide
variety
> of articles. He's always at a booth at OSH and Sun n Fun.
>
> What's wrong with flying to the nearby airport for the social aspects if
that's
> what you want? It's better than driving. Many of the airports I visit
have
> no one there most of the time.
>
> That's my two cents worth FWIW. I guess it's different strokes for
different folks.
> Hap Schoenberger, 701 tail build, working on right wing.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:40:10 PM PST US
> From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: aileron hinges
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen"
<hulens61@birch.net>
>
> > Can anybody say whether piano hinges allow easier aileron range of
> movement?
>
> ++ It would will be at full-stick movement (and that would be the only
area
> that would have enough resistance to talk about). If you are going to
apply
> even 1/2 of the total throw suddenly, you'd better be braced for a very
> quick roll rate. The full length ailerons are so efficient that 1/4" to
> 3/8" deflections will give you a very crisp turns with very little effort
on
> the stick. Easy to fly, but not touchy, a number of Zodie drivers say they
> sometimes fly with their arms relaxed on the center arm rest, and just use
> their finger tips.
>
> Fred
>
> 100 hours....... love it!
> Jabiru 3300/601HDS
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:49:33 PM PST US
> From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hanger at home
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
>
> ----- > What's wrong with flying to the nearby airport for the social
> aspects if that's what you want? It's better than driving. Many of the
> airports I visit have no one there most of the time.
>
> The social aspects I am refering to come while in the hangar working on
the
> plane. I personally spend lots of time doing that ------ normal
maintenance
> and modifying or what have you. The social aspects just happen then. I
don't
> imagine I would ever likely drive to an airport just to meet people there
or
> fly to one for the same reasons. But whatever turns one on is ok. Tom
> >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:27:07 PM PST US
> From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hanger at home
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
<rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
>
> > The social aspects I am refering to come while in the hangar working on
> the
> > plane. I personally spend lots of time doing that ------ normal
> maintenance
>
>
> I actually was building a Long Eze in a hangar years ago. Without fail, my
> hangar partner would show up both weekend days and talk incessantly....so
> much so that I never got any work done! Now I know why it takes 10 years
to
> build a plane! I had to sell the project because the socializing bordered
on
> the ridiculous! I vowed never to do that again.
>
> Now, I'm building my plane on my porch, with a view for a hundred miles
all
> around, and no visitors. For me, this is the only way to go. If I really
> feel the need to have that $100 hamburger, I broil one up on the grill,
and
> eat while talking to my horses! :{) When the plane is done, I can fly into
> Sedona for a really expensive burger...from my own airstrip! :{) no hangar
> fees, and all the auto gas I care to store, which is much cheaper than
100LL
> and better for the old Rotax.
>
> It all depends what you're looking for. I love independence, and being
alone
> is not a problem. And my project will be completed much more quickly at
home
> that at an airport.
>
> Regard.....Dave
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:51:21 PM PST US
> From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: aileron hinges
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
>
> I flew for four years with the "bending metal" hinge and found there was a
> significant imbalance between pitch (very sensitive) and roll (used BIG
> muscles). Not normally a problem, but could have been better.
> So when I changed to HDS wings from the original HD wings I went with a
> hinge.
> Definitely somewhat lighter and easier to get max deflection on those rare
> occasions.
> Would I go hinge again? Definitely.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 - 475 hrs
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:17:27 PM PST US
> From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: New 912 prices!
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Just talked to Lockwood this morning and discovered that for an
'unspecified
> time' the price of a new 912UL is $9,500.00 and the 912ULS is 11,999.00.
> That's a drop of about $2000 for the 912 and $1000 for the S. Any
marketing
> types give a clue as to what is happening here? Slow sales? Maybe the new
> 'owners'? This is certainly a significant drop and good news for new
> buyers.Wonder why they are being hazy on the time limit?
>
> How did I stumble on this tidbit? The bad news for me is that I just got
> word from LEAF Rotax mechanic that my crank is bent from my little tree
> collision. He was surprised, initially thinking I should have survived
this
> incident. For those who dont know, replacement of a bad crank on a 912
will
> get you estimates of over $6000 for a repair! (crank is 3200, gasket set
> about 800, prop shaft 600, and about 24 hours labor @ 60 for another 1500
> ( I'm rounding these numbers)) My engine 'as is' is worth 2000 to Lockwood
> for parts (!) So if I do the math: a new 912 is $9500 less 2000 for the
old
> resulting in $7500, -or- put over 6000 into rebuild of old engine. For
> about a grand I'd want a new engine! But it is all of no consequence
> because I dont have that kind of $$$ anyway! Oh, maybe a loan!? Never!
>
> Anyone interested in a complete 912 with 100 hrs and a bad crank and prop
> shaft... your offer has to be more than Lockwood's!
>
> Jon Croke
> The Aluminum butcher from (you know where...!)
> N701US
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:30:48 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance..
> From: "Edward T. Jeffko" <riovista@bossig.com>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward T. Jeffko"
<riovista@bossig.com>
>
> If you really have a vair in your 701, how about some pertinent info.
> Weights, power, performance, etc.
>
> Ed
>
> > From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> > Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:41:18 -0600
> > To: "'zenith-list@matronics.com'" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance..
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> >
> > Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
> >
> > Deflate your nose tire.
> > Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
> > If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably
not
> > have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
> >
> > If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
> >
> > If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
> >
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> >
> >
> > Martin Bima
> > STOL-Vair 701
> >
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
> >
> >
> > <META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
> > Prop Clearance..
> >
> >
> > Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
> >
> >
> > Deflate your nose tire.
> >
> > Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
> >
> > If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably
not
> > have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
> >
> >
> > If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
> >
> >
> > If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
> >
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> >
> >
> > Martin Bima
> >
> > STOL-Vair 701
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/13/03 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Probably a good rule of thumb. Binglis says 9 inches is minimum In
SPORTPLANES. TOM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zenith-List Digest Server" <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/13/03
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2003-11-13.ht
ml
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2003-11-13.tx
t
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Zenith-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 11/13/03: 14
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 05:23 AM - Re: At Home or Away? (Phil Raker)
> 2. 05:45 AM - Re: Dimpled floating nut plates (Ed Kramer)
> 3. 06:08 AM - Battery location on HDS w Jab 3300
(charles.long@gm.com)
> 4. 06:42 AM - Prop Clearance.. (Bima, Martin)
> 5. 07:00 AM - aileron hinges (Bob Miller)
> 6. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: At Home or Away? (Thomas F Marson)
> 7. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: At Home or Away? (Dave Pepper)
> 8. 10:50 AM - Hanger at home (H. Robert Schoenberger)
> 9. 02:40 PM - Re: aileron hinges (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
> 10. 03:49 PM - Re: Hanger at home (Thomas F Marson)
> 11. 04:27 PM - Re: Hanger at home (Dave Pepper)
> 12. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: aileron hinges (Dave Austin)
> 13. 06:17 PM - New 912 prices! (Jon Croke)
> 14. 10:30 PM - Re: Prop Clearance.. (Edward T. Jeffko)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:23:45 AM PST US
> From: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>
>
> > If you're looking to be a social butterfly, keep your plane at an
airport,
> > with its high tiedown/hangar costs. If you want true independence, have
your
> > own airstrip and fly from home.
>
> Hello,
> There is another alternative to be considered. In most parts of the
> country, there can be found (with a little bit of searching) residential
> airparks, which are subdivisions where the streets are the taxiways. You
can
> live AT the airport right beside your hangar, and someone else maintains
the
> runways. They are available in just about every price range you could
imagine.
> (This one, Y91, is less expensive than most.) That was the decision I
made,
> about a year ago. I'm still building, not yet flying, but there are other
> builders & pilots here for sociability, and when the Zenith is complete, I
can
> fly from home. It can be the best of both worlds.
>
> Phil Raker, N556P, HDS/Stratus ~80% complete, at Home Acres Sky Ranch
(Y91)
>
> __________________________________
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:45:55 AM PST US
> From: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dimpled floating nut plates
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
>
> Mark,
> I'm not sure what you mean by bottom countersunk nutplates. The
> nutplates can be dimpled to accept a countersunk rivet head (AN426), then
> the piece underneath has to be dimpled to accept the nutplate. Avery Tools
> sells a small diameter female dimple die that will fit next to the
nutplate
> stud and dimple the nutplate with little effort. I used this method to
> install inspection panels on the wings for my 701.
>
> Ed Kramer
> West Seneca, NY
> CH 701
> edair701@adelphia.net
> Build Status:
> Completed: Rudder,
> Left wing, Right wing.
> Starting flaperons
>
>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Dimpled floating nut plates
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
> <mark.stauffer@comcast.net>
> >
> > Does anyone happen to have a source for dimpled or "bottom countersunk"
> nut
> > plates? I did find a source for the non floating ones - Aircraft
> Fasteners,
> > Inc. I checked with Aircraft Spruce and with their suppliers to no
avail.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:08:19 AM PST US
> Subject: Zenith-List: Battery location on HDS w Jab 3300
> From: charles.long@gm.com
> 11/13/2003 09:07:55 AM
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
>
> I've just forked out a bunch of money for the Jab 3300 & XL fire
wall
> forward kit. Hope I made the right decision. A question for those taking
> the same route on their HDS's. With the two extra cylinders way out in
> front (as compared to the 912s installation), can you still mount the
> battery on the forward side of the firewall or does it need to be placed
> farther back? Also, how much of a hit are we taking on weight as compared
> to the 912s? Thanks, can't wait to pick up my engine!
>
> Chuck Long
> N601LE, 85% complete
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:42:18 AM PST US
> From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance..
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
>
> Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
>
> Deflate your nose tire.
> Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
> If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably
not
> have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
>
> If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
>
> If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
> Martin Bima
> STOL-Vair 701
>
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
>
>
> <META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
> Prop Clearance..
>
>
> Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
>
>
> Deflate your nose tire.
>
> Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
>
> If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably
not have
> a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
>
>
> If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
>
>
> If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
> Martin Bima
>
> STOL-Vair 701
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:00:50 AM PST US
> From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: aileron hinges
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
<drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Hi guys,
> There's been some commentary here about aileron resistance on the stick
with the
> regular non-hinge attachment.
> Can anybody say whether piano hinges allow easier aileron range of
movement?
> Thanks,
> Bob Miller
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:20:23 AM PST US
> From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
> absolutely, the Airpark is a great alternative. Only caveat------ be sure
> before you fly that they are registered with the State and are licensed
for
> continued operation with no time limit.
>
> Riveria airpark not over 15 miles from me had a nice 3000 foot grass
runway
> and 26 homes with built in and /or free standing hangars. It had been in
> operation as a field for 40 plus years and as an airpark for about 10. A
new
> person built a home not to distant from the end of the runway and decided
> she didn't like planes (even though she new about the airpark before she
> built). She got some advocates (easy to get) Greenpeace, Audubon club and
> the like. After over 50,000 in lawyering fees and hearings and court cases
> over 3 years the field is now closed. Yes closed (hangars useless). If
> fact at the New Richmond Airport the fellow who build his new hangar for
his
> beautiful Swift and Cessna 195 next to my hangar is a refugee from the
> Riveria airpark. He finally gave up and sold his home (don't know if it
> sold at a loss) do know it sold to a non pilot.
>
> HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?????
>
> I happened because the original land owner assumed he was grandfathered in
> because he had been flying his plane out of his Alfalfa field for 30 years
> and felt he was grandfathered in. He never bothered to get state
approval,
> there was no township or County approval either------no approval either.
> Sure the township had approved building permits for all the houses and
> hangars. No one raised the issue until one disagreeable neighbor did.
These
> days it is very easy to get well heeled support from the Tree
huggers -----
> and it was off and running.
>
> The State of Wisconsin Dot told me there are lots of unregistered strips
in
> Wisconsin the know of lots of them and are sure they don't know of all of
> them. Usually unless someone raises an issue they look the other
> way. ---------------- the problem is as more and more people move out to
> suburbia there are more people who raise issues. You probably have all
> heard of people who moved from the city to the country for all the peace
> and quiet and then decided they don't want the noise of the farmers
tractors
> or smell of farm operations.
>
> This life in America today.
>
> Tom Marson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Raker" <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > > If you're looking to be a social butterfly, keep your plane at an
> airport,
> > > with its high tiedown/hangar costs. If you want true independence,
have
> your
> > > own airstrip and fly from home.
> >
> > Hello,
> > There is another alternative to be considered. In most parts of
the
> > country, there can be found (with a little bit of searching) residential
> > airparks, which are subdivisions where the streets are the taxiways.
You
> can
> > live AT the airport right beside your hangar, and someone else maintains
> the
> > runways. They are available in just about every price range you could
> imagine.
> > (This one, Y91, is less expensive than most.) That was the decision I
> made,
> > about a year ago. I'm still building, not yet flying, but there are
other
> > builders & pilots here for sociability, and when the Zenith is complete,
I
> can
> > fly from home. It can be the best of both worlds.
> >
> > Phil Raker, N556P, HDS/Stratus ~80% complete, at Home Acres Sky Ranch
> (Y91)
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:57:46 AM PST US
> From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: At Home or Away?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
<rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> It's not the tree huggers that are the problem. It's the suburbanites who
> come to the country on weekends to get away from their cookie cutter homes
> and mass of humanity, and look for a place to drive their gas guzzling
> off-road SUVs. And they bring all their rules, CC&R's, etc, so they can
> duplicate their city life in the country. Its not the country folk who are
> against aircraft operations.....it's the suburb dweller. These are the
same
> people who call the police in a small country town to have neighbor's
> barking dogs silenced!!!!
>
> Where I built my home, pilots use the gravel roads, which divide land
> sections, as their runways. Some of these roads don't even belong to
anyone
> since they're technically public easements. They just land and park their
> planes in front of their houses. Of course, this is renegade Arizona, not
> overbuilt New Jersey!
>
> I still think having remote land with your own runway is the ultimate in
> freedom. Otherwise, an established airpark with paved runway, where the
> governing board consists of aviation-friendly people, is next best.
>
> To each his, or her, own.
>
> Dave
> C-ICDO 601HD/912ULS
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:50:56 AM PST US
> From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Hanger at home
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger"
<HRS4@prodigy.net>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
> wrote:
> absolutely, the Airpark is a great alternative. Only caveat------ be sure
> before you fly that they are registered with the State and are licensed
for
> continued operation with no time limit.
>
> List . . . I'm no where near ready to fly my 701, but in anticipation of
doing
> so, my wife and I have purchased 34 acres so we can have a 1,200 ft. strip
with
> hanger and a new home. There are several factors that were considered.
>
> We are getting up there in years, and the home we built 4 years ago is
gradually
> becoming outdated for our needs. We look forward to a first floor master,
room
> for the grandbabies which weren't around when we built the last time, a
bigger
> airplane factory in the basement with walkout doors out, and a different
> home design with no living room / formal dining room.
>
> I just know I'll fly more when the plane is right at my home. I had a
Piper Dakota
> for some years, and it was a hassle to drive the 30 minutes to the
airport,
> pull the plane out of the hanger, preflight, fly for an hour, and reverse
the
> process. By the time I got back home, 2 1/2 to 3 hours had elapsed.
>
> The same goes with building one's plane at a location other than right at
home
> in the basement or garage. If you've got to drive to a site, then the
inclination
> will be not to go when you only have about an hour of spare time.
>
> On the subject of airparks, Ben Sclair of GA - the general aviation
newspaper -
> is an expert on the subject. He publishes an airpark directory and
includes
> an occasional airpark article in GA. He's also related some horror talkes
like
> the one recently posted on this list. One can't be too careful in buying
into
> an airpark, and a bit of attorney time will probably be money well spent.
> GA, if you're not familiar with it, is a great newspaper with a wide
variety
> of articles. He's always at a booth at OSH and Sun n Fun.
>
> What's wrong with flying to the nearby airport for the social aspects if
that's
> what you want? It's better than driving. Many of the airports I visit
have
> no one there most of the time.
>
> That's my two cents worth FWIW. I guess it's different strokes for
different folks.
> Hap Schoenberger, 701 tail build, working on right wing.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:40:10 PM PST US
> From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: aileron hinges
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen"
<hulens61@birch.net>
>
> > Can anybody say whether piano hinges allow easier aileron range of
> movement?
>
> ++ It would will be at full-stick movement (and that would be the only
area
> that would have enough resistance to talk about). If you are going to
apply
> even 1/2 of the total throw suddenly, you'd better be braced for a very
> quick roll rate. The full length ailerons are so efficient that 1/4" to
> 3/8" deflections will give you a very crisp turns with very little effort
on
> the stick. Easy to fly, but not touchy, a number of Zodie drivers say they
> sometimes fly with their arms relaxed on the center arm rest, and just use
> their finger tips.
>
> Fred
>
> 100 hours....... love it!
> Jabiru 3300/601HDS
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:49:33 PM PST US
> From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hanger at home
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
>
> ----- > What's wrong with flying to the nearby airport for the social
> aspects if that's what you want? It's better than driving. Many of the
> airports I visit have no one there most of the time.
>
> The social aspects I am refering to come while in the hangar working on
the
> plane. I personally spend lots of time doing that ------ normal
maintenance
> and modifying or what have you. The social aspects just happen then. I
don't
> imagine I would ever likely drive to an airport just to meet people there
or
> fly to one for the same reasons. But whatever turns one on is ok. Tom
> >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:27:07 PM PST US
> From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hanger at home
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
<rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
>
> > The social aspects I am refering to come while in the hangar working on
> the
> > plane. I personally spend lots of time doing that ------ normal
> maintenance
>
>
> I actually was building a Long Eze in a hangar years ago. Without fail, my
> hangar partner would show up both weekend days and talk incessantly....so
> much so that I never got any work done! Now I know why it takes 10 years
to
> build a plane! I had to sell the project because the socializing bordered
on
> the ridiculous! I vowed never to do that again.
>
> Now, I'm building my plane on my porch, with a view for a hundred miles
all
> around, and no visitors. For me, this is the only way to go. If I really
> feel the need to have that $100 hamburger, I broil one up on the grill,
and
> eat while talking to my horses! :{) When the plane is done, I can fly into
> Sedona for a really expensive burger...from my own airstrip! :{) no hangar
> fees, and all the auto gas I care to store, which is much cheaper than
100LL
> and better for the old Rotax.
>
> It all depends what you're looking for. I love independence, and being
alone
> is not a problem. And my project will be completed much more quickly at
home
> that at an airport.
>
> Regard.....Dave
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:51:21 PM PST US
> From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: aileron hinges
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
>
> I flew for four years with the "bending metal" hinge and found there was a
> significant imbalance between pitch (very sensitive) and roll (used BIG
> muscles). Not normally a problem, but could have been better.
> So when I changed to HDS wings from the original HD wings I went with a
> hinge.
> Definitely somewhat lighter and easier to get max deflection on those rare
> occasions.
> Would I go hinge again? Definitely.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 - 475 hrs
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:17:27 PM PST US
> From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: New 912 prices!
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Just talked to Lockwood this morning and discovered that for an
'unspecified
> time' the price of a new 912UL is $9,500.00 and the 912ULS is 11,999.00.
> That's a drop of about $2000 for the 912 and $1000 for the S. Any
marketing
> types give a clue as to what is happening here? Slow sales? Maybe the new
> 'owners'? This is certainly a significant drop and good news for new
> buyers.Wonder why they are being hazy on the time limit?
>
> How did I stumble on this tidbit? The bad news for me is that I just got
> word from LEAF Rotax mechanic that my crank is bent from my little tree
> collision. He was surprised, initially thinking I should have survived
this
> incident. For those who dont know, replacement of a bad crank on a 912
will
> get you estimates of over $6000 for a repair! (crank is 3200, gasket set
> about 800, prop shaft 600, and about 24 hours labor @ 60 for another 1500
> ( I'm rounding these numbers)) My engine 'as is' is worth 2000 to Lockwood
> for parts (!) So if I do the math: a new 912 is $9500 less 2000 for the
old
> resulting in $7500, -or- put over 6000 into rebuild of old engine. For
> about a grand I'd want a new engine! But it is all of no consequence
> because I dont have that kind of $$$ anyway! Oh, maybe a loan!? Never!
>
> Anyone interested in a complete 912 with 100 hrs and a bad crank and prop
> shaft... your offer has to be more than Lockwood's!
>
> Jon Croke
> The Aluminum butcher from (you know where...!)
> N701US
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:30:48 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance..
> From: "Edward T. Jeffko" <riovista@bossig.com>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward T. Jeffko"
<riovista@bossig.com>
>
> If you really have a vair in your 701, how about some pertinent info.
> Weights, power, performance, etc.
>
> Ed
>
> > From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> > Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:41:18 -0600
> > To: "'zenith-list@matronics.com'" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance..
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
> >
> > Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
> >
> > Deflate your nose tire.
> > Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
> > If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably
not
> > have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
> >
> > If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
> >
> > If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
> >
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> >
> >
> > Martin Bima
> > STOL-Vair 701
> >
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
> >
> >
> > <META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
> > Prop Clearance..
> >
> >
> > Rule of thumb to calculate prop clearance...
> >
> >
> > Deflate your nose tire.
> >
> > Depress your nose suspension to the top stops.
> >
> > If your prop does not touch the ground at this point - you will probably
not
> > have a prop strike and have selected a good prop diameter.
> >
> >
> > If your engine over-revs, increase the pitch.
> >
> >
> > If the pitch is maxed out - add another blade.
> >
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> >
> >
> > Martin Bima
> >
> > STOL-Vair 701
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Jabiru 2200 on a 601HD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Hi Listers,
Is anyone flying a Jab 2200 with the 601HD?
I'm considering doing so, and would love to hear about your experience.
Thanks,
Bob Miller
PS I'm looking forward to the day I'll have enough experience to answer a question
on the list now and then rather than just ask them!!
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | elevator cables. 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello list:
We are almost finished with the instruments inatalation, next will be
the final assembly in the hangar... I have a question:
The wings are not installed yet (lack of space) will be in the hangar,
but something I have noted is that moving the control stick left to
right pulls and slacks (sp?)one elevator cable, This has to be normal
because the horizntal tail bellcank (7-C-1-1) is positoned off center.
My question is: How much this tension on the cables will be noticed
once the wings (and flaperons oc course) will be installed? How much
the stick will travel left to right in a 701 once the alerion stops are
in place?
Thank you in advance for your comments.
Saludos
Gary Gower
PS Yesterday a galvanized mock up of the seat went to the upholstery
shop to get a leather suit :-) getting closer!!!
__________________________________
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and
also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here
provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical
email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is
outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of
messages on line for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where
also building RVs. It has grown into over 40 different aviation-related
Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 10,000,000 hits
each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over
90,000,000 (yes, that 90 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each
year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in
supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
-----------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-----------------------------------------------
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tension on cables |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Howdy folks: This is a timely question for me, Gary, since I started to run rudder
& elevator cables today. What kind of tension should be on the cables? Is
a tension meter something that should be used. I cannot find any written info
on this from Zenith.
Thanks
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601xl
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower
My question is: How much this tension on the cables will be noticed
once the wings (and flaperons oc course) will be installed?
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: New 912 prices! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Probably the old law of supply and demand. The market refuses to bear the
outrageous price of $12,500 for an engine that should sell for $6000. If it
has the word "aviation" on it, you're going to pay way too much for the
product. Capitalism has its limits, and I guess the market gave its opinion
to Bombardier.
Dave
Any marketing
> types give a clue as to what is happening here? Slow sales?
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: New 912 prices! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Dave,
Right on on pricing. Glenn Curtis noted in the early teens that he could
sell his motorcycle motors to airplane enthusiasts for 3 times what a
cyclist would pay. It's a tradition now.
Ron DeWees
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New 912 prices!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
<rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> Probably the old law of supply and demand. The market refuses to bear the
> outrageous price of $12,500 for an engine that should sell for $6000. If
it
> has the word "aviation" on it, you're going to pay way too much for the
> product. Capitalism has its limits, and I guess the market gave its
opinion
> to Bombardier.
>
> Dave
>
>
> Any marketing
> > types give a clue as to what is happening here? Slow sales?
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <gkirby@yahoo.com>
I would not be surprised if Jabiru are having a major impact on sales of
the 912.
Graham
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Dave,
Right on on pricing. Glenn Curtis noted in the early teens that he could
sell his motorcycle motors to airplane enthusiasts for 3 times what a
cyclist would pay. It's a tradition now. Ron DeWees
>
> Any marketing
> > types give a clue as to what is happening here? Slow sales?
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: New 912 prices! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
And this is because everyone is so ready and willing to pay too much for
everything "aviation." We all need to just refuse to pay.....then watch
prices drop. When I bought my 912S from Zenith, they wanted $12,500! I said
"no way", I'm not paying that price for old technology. They emailed me a
day later, and said I could have it for $11,680 (still very overpriced)!!!!
Go figure that one out! Now, if we refused collectively to pay exhorbitant
prices, they would drop dramatically.
Dave
Dave
> Right on on pricing. Glenn Curtis noted in the early teens that he could
> sell his motorcycle motors to airplane enthusiasts for 3 times what a
> cyclist would pay. It's a tradition now.
> Ron DeWees
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: New 912 prices! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Or quit selling... What first? Go figure.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive
--- Dave Pepper <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
> <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> And this is because everyone is so ready and willing to pay too much
> for
> everything "aviation." We all need to just refuse to pay.....then
> watch
> prices drop. When I bought my 912S from Zenith, they wanted $12,500!
> I said
> "no way", I'm not paying that price for old technology. They emailed
> me a
> day later, and said I could have it for $11,680 (still very
> overpriced)!!!!
> Go figure that one out! Now, if we refused collectively to pay
> exhorbitant
> prices, they would drop dramatically.
>
> Dave
>
> Dave
>
>
> > Right on on pricing. Glenn Curtis noted in the early teens that he
> could
> > sell his motorcycle motors to airplane enthusiasts for 3 times what
> a
> > cyclist would pay. It's a tradition now.
> > Ron DeWees
> >
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | rudder fairleads |
TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
This is probably a question that should go to ZAC(misprint in plans) but I would
like to get it done this weekend. On 6-b-22 of the most current plan (06/03)
the middle diagram shows the left rudder fairlead below the upper elev fairlead
on the rear frame channel. The left diagram shows the opposite from the rear
view. Which is it? I suspect that the cable fairleads are offset to keep the
cables from rubbing when they cross in the rear fuselage.
Thanks
Jack Russell Clovis CA
XL- jab3300
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | More 701 rudder cable soap box |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Yes, we need something definite on the 701 rudder cables.
I am also at that point, and throughout this entire very enjoyable project I
have been amazed at the spelling and grammar errors scattered across the
prints.
Don't think I fell off the turnip truck, but one should not have to re-read
simple notations just to guess the meaning.
Is it possible that this is metric English?
Or, do CAD programs not have spell check?
With all due respect to those who are multi-lingual, I'm not, it would seem
that if the prints are produced in the English language, then the proper use of
English would be of great importance. English is a second, or third,
language to many of the builders and this must make their task even more
challenging.
(pause here, while I dismount the soapbox)
Zed Smith/701/R912/90%
DO NOT ARCHIVE !!
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Bob,
don't do the Methanol, especially, if you work in an confined area. Laquer
thinner is already bad, but Methanol is a really dangerous stuff - you can
get blind from the vapours. Alternatively, you might want to dry some other
solvents such as Ethanol.
Happy building
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
>
> Eric,
>
> I made a lot of phone calls and Emails, and it was surprisingly difficult
to
> get anyone to just tell me in practical terms what the surface preparation
> should be. I finally did get complete information and will submit a full
> report over the week end. Basically, the Cortec 373 can be brushed,
sprayed,
> or dipped, requiring only a few mils thickness to give complete
protection.
> New aluminum surfaces need only to be degreased (no roughing the surface
> needed) using any suitable solvent degreaser. The Cortec people use
methanol
> (alcohol), since it is more user friendly than something like lacquer
> thinner. I'm convinced that this primer is far superior to any other
> alternative for my use in the tight confines of my basement.
>
> Bob Eli
>
>
> Email: robert.eli@adelphia.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Tauch
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Any more info on the Cortec. I think I will just go ahead and order a
> quart.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli"
<robert.eli@adelphia.net>
> >
> > I am beginning my CH701 construction and have been concerned about
> > understanding priming pros and cons with respect to the Cortec products.
I
> > have been doing research on subject, and have talked to the Cortec
people
> > and to Nick at ZAC about which product is best for aircraft interior
> > surfaces (he said that Cortec recommended the 373 instead of alternate
> > products). This is an interim report on what I have learned. First,
the
> > most appropriate product is the Cortec 373 wash primer that is supplied
by
> > ZAC in quarts (according to the Cortec chemist and engineer). Boeing
> > Aircraft Co. has used this product on some of their production aircraft
> > interior surfaces, to name one usage example. The Cortec chemist does
not
> > recommend the 374 primer for our purposes. I am gathering specs and
> surface
> > preparation details, and will report more extensively on this subject as
> > soon as I receive the information from Cortec.
> >
> >
> > Bob Eli
> >
> > CH701
> >
> >
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|