---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/15/03: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:01 AM - Re: 701 Aluminum Spring Gear (andrew manzo) 2. 12:21 AM - Rotax 912S and mogas (Richard McLachlan) 3. 04:21 AM - Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer (caspainhower@aep.com) 4. 06:24 AM - Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer (Robert Eli) 5. 08:13 AM - Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer (caspainhower@aep.com) 6. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: Prop Clearance.. () 7. 08:58 AM - Re: New 912 prices! (H. Robert Schoenberger) 8. 09:16 AM - Re: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer (H. Robert Schoenberger) 9. 09:18 AM - For Sale... (Roger & Mary) 10. 11:50 AM - Elevator cables (Dabusmith@aol.com) 11. 12:27 PM - Re: For Sale... (George Swinford) 12. 02:48 PM - Subject: Re: Prop Clearance.. (Kevin W Bonds) 13. 09:14 PM - Re: For Sale... (Steve) 14. 09:43 PM - Re: Dimpled floating nut plates (Mark Stauffer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:23 AM PST US From: andrew manzo Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Aluminum Spring Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: andrew manzo I've heard that heating this type of aluminum will make it brittle. I'm not an expert, tho, so please check with someone who is. Check with ZAC before you even CONSIDER heating the gear. --Andrew Benford2@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 11/12/2003 5:46:24 PM Mountain Standard Time, delk@bellsouth.net writes: > > I have a 701 with the "Sky Jeep" aluminum gear. After 50 hours the gear has > begun to spread considerably. The condition appears to progress with each > landing. My children (18 and 20) fly the plane. Somebody may have made a > hard landing, but no one will confess. I've been told to put pressure and > heat (not flame) on the gear to reform it. Has anyone else had this > experience? Is there a way to strengthen the gear? A better technique or > method of repair? A way to avoid this condition (other than better > landings)? > > > Thanks > I hope to heck you are KIDDING .. Ben Haas N801BH. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:15 AM PST US From: Richard McLachlan Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S and mogas Due to the enormous price difference here between very expensive Avgas and expensive Mogas, we have been running our CH601 quite happily on mogas for the last year. We have now been informed that this is illegal without special mods to the fuel feeds to incorporate a vapour return line. Is this a requirement in the US and Canada? -- Richard McLachlan --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard McLachlan CH601HDS/R22 Helicopter Landing Site info at http://www.rodsley.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer From: caspainhower@aep.com 11/15/2003 07:20:39 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >don't do the Methanol, especially, if you work in an confined area. Laquer thinner is already bad, but Methanol is a really dangerous stuff - you can get blind from the vapours. Alternatively, you might want to dry some other solvents such as Ethanol. Ethanol can be found labeled as denatured alcohol, which has a little methanol added to prevent people from drinking it. Ethanol is the alcohol found in liquor. Brake cleaner is also a form of alcohol used for degreasing metal brake component, rotors, drums, etc. but I don't know if it's suitable for enclosed areas. Craig S. 601 XL This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:58 AM PST US From: "Robert Eli" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" Hi Folks, Thanks for the tips with regard to alcohol degreasing prior to using Cortec primer. I assume that the denatured alcohol available any drugstore could be safely used for this purpose. Some time ago I promised to submit a final report on my experiences in trying to gather information with regard to which of the Cortec products to use, and what is required to properly apply it to aluminum. Now, thanks to David Glass's inquiries, we have an issue with regard to the longevity of the protection. It now appears that the Cortec 373 primer may only protect for a maximum of 10 years, with regard to its active ingredient. The question now is: after the active phase of protection is over, does it still protect as a surface coating, like any other paint product? I now have an Email inquiry into Cortex requesting clarification of this issue, and I also have asked Arthur Rice, at AllSpec, N.C. (the Eastern Distributor) to provide longevity information. I am now awaiting their responses before coming to a conclusion. The Spec sheet for Cortec 373 states that it replaces MIL-P-15328D Wash Primers, and will protect both steel and aluminum. It also states that it is suitable as a permanent coating in "sheltered environments". A top coat is recommended if the surface is an exposed surface. Although I have no verification yet, I suspect that Cortec 373 will prove to give comparable protection to many other products, but will be much more user friendly, due to its nontoxic, water-based characteristics. I suspect that any primer product protection will deteriorate gradually over time (aging). Arthur Rice has informed me that his company is willing to repackage Cortec 373 Olive Green (or whatever color most of use would prefer) into gallon cans. I have informed him that I would prefer the Olive green color, which looks most similar to traditional aircraft primer colors. What color would you people prefer? The available colors appear to be red, Olive green, black, and clear. Bob Eli CH701 Email: robert.eli@adelphia.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of caspainhower@aep.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >don't do the Methanol, especially, if you work in an confined area. Laquer thinner is already bad, but Methanol is a really dangerous stuff - you can get blind from the vapours. Alternatively, you might want to dry some other solvents such as Ethanol. Ethanol can be found labeled as denatured alcohol, which has a little methanol added to prevent people from drinking it. Ethanol is the alcohol found in liquor. Brake cleaner is also a form of alcohol used for degreasing metal brake component, rotors, drums, etc. but I don't know if it's suitable for enclosed areas. Craig S. 601 XL This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer From: caspainhower@aep.com 11/15/2003 11:12:20 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > I assume that the denatured alcohol available any drugstore could be safely used for this purpose. > The available colors appear to be red, Olive green, black, and clear. I use denatured alcohol at work and it is almost pure ethanol with ~ 5% isopropal added. I don't know if what the drugstore sells is pure enough. You may need to go to a hardware or paint store. As for the color, I have all the cortec I need to finish this project, but if there's a next one I would vote for green as well. Craig S. 601 XL This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:40 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance.. --> Zenith-List message posted by: I need a little help on this subject-your logic makes sense to me. I am just about finished with my 601xl project and have fitted it with an IVO in flight adjustable 2 blade prop. I have about 7" ground clearance, my questions are-What are the reasons to fly with a 2 blade vs 3 blade prop and could I achieve the best torque efficiency with a shorter 3 blade prop vs a longer 2 blade prop? Thanks in advance Bob N601xl > > From: "Edward T. Jeffko" > Date: 2003/11/14 Fri AM 12:16:23 EST> To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance.. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:55 AM PST US From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New 912 prices! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" List . . . I don't know if this is the reason, but I read that Bombardier has recent sold their sports divisions (ski doo, Rotax, etc.) and going to concentrate on the heavy iron (planes and trains). Maybe the new owners have less overhead and a more realistic feel for the market. Let's hope that the price reductions are permanent as I and a lot of others are not ready to purchase the engine. Hap Schoenberger Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Pepper" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New 912 prices! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" > > Probably the old law of supply and demand. The market refuses to bear the > outrageous price of $12,500 for an engine that should sell for $6000. If it > has the word "aviation" on it, you're going to pay way too much for the > product. Capitalism has its limits, and I guess the market gave its opinion > to Bombardier. > > Dave > > > Any marketing > > types give a clue as to what is happening here? Slow sales? > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:34 AM PST US From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" Robert . . . my vote is for olive green. It just "feels" better after dealing with ZnChr for the past year and a half. Please keep us informed as to availability and where it can be ordered. Thanks. Hap Schoenberger do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Eli" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" > > Hi Folks, > > Thanks for the tips with regard to alcohol degreasing prior to using Cortec > primer. I assume that the denatured alcohol available any drugstore could be > safely used for this purpose. Some time ago I promised to submit a final > report on my experiences in trying to gather information with regard to > which of the Cortec products to use, and what is required to properly apply > it to aluminum. Now, thanks to David Glass's inquiries, we have an issue > with regard to the longevity of the protection. It now appears that the > Cortec 373 primer may only protect for a maximum of 10 years, with regard to > its active ingredient. The question now is: after the active phase of > protection is over, does it still protect as a surface coating, like any > other paint product? I now have an Email inquiry into Cortex requesting > clarification of this issue, and I also have asked Arthur Rice, at AllSpec, > N.C. (the Eastern Distributor) to provide longevity information. I am now > awaiting their responses before coming to a conclusion. The Spec sheet for > Cortec 373 states that it replaces MIL-P-15328D Wash Primers, and will > protect both steel and aluminum. It also states that it is suitable as a > permanent coating in "sheltered environments". A top coat is recommended if > the surface is an exposed surface. Although I have no verification yet, I > suspect that Cortec 373 will prove to give comparable protection to many > other products, but will be much more user friendly, due to its nontoxic, > water-based characteristics. I suspect that any primer product protection > will deteriorate gradually over time (aging). Arthur Rice has informed me > that his company is willing to repackage Cortec 373 Olive Green (or whatever > color most of use would prefer) into gallon cans. I have informed him that I > would prefer the Olive green color, which looks most similar to traditional > aircraft primer colors. What color would you people prefer? The available > colors appear to be red, Olive green, black, and clear. > > Bob Eli > CH701 > > > Email: robert.eli@adelphia.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > caspainhower@aep.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 versus 374 primer > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > > > >don't do the Methanol, especially, if you work in an confined area. Laquer > thinner is already bad, but Methanol is a really dangerous stuff - you can > get blind from the vapours. Alternatively, you might want to dry some other > solvents such as Ethanol. > > Ethanol can be found labeled as denatured alcohol, which has a little > methanol added to prevent people from drinking it. Ethanol is the alcohol > found in liquor. Brake cleaner is also a form of alcohol used for > degreasing metal brake component, rotors, drums, etc. but I don't know if > it's suitable for enclosed areas. > > Craig S. > 601 XL > > > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:21 AM PST US From: "Roger & Mary" Subject: Zenith-List: For Sale... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger & Mary" I am parting out my 601HDS due to medical / family issues. The following items are for sale: 1) Rotax 912 UL, 80HP, S/N 4403275, 50HR Total Time ZAC supplied muffler, oil tank and oil cooler $7,500.00 2) Airplast PV 50 Prop and spinner, 66", black, 4 Hours Total Time $2,000.00 3) Warp Drive Prop and spinner, 68", with nickel leading edge tapered blades, 46 HR Total Time $450.00 4) King KY97A Comm, with CI-401-31KC Comm Antenna $750.00 5) King KT-76A Transponder $800.00 6) Ameri-King AK-350 Altitude Encoder $100.00 7) Ameri-King AK-450 ELT W/aircraft antenna $125.00 8) FlightComm 403MC 2-place intercomm $100.00 9) ZAC instrument pkg: includes: A/S, altitmeter, oil pressure, oil temp, water temp, voltmeter, tachometer and hobbs. I replaced their compass with a PAI-700 Vertical card compass (retail $255.00) $500.00 10) Turn Coordinator (aircraft spruce P/N 10-22510) $175.00 11) Vertical Speed Indicator, UMA ,3 1/8", 0-2000FT, (aircraft spruce P/N 10-20505) $50.00 12) Manifold Pressure Gauge, UMA, 2 1/4", 0 -35PSI $50.00 13) ZAC Rotax 912 Motor Mount, Powder coated black, Lists $450.00 $200.00 14) ZAC "Y" handle control yoke, Lists $119.00 $50.00 15) Nose wheel and 2 main wheel asseblies, Lists $162.00 $100.00 16) Rudder pedels, with ZAC supplies brakes, Lists 259.00 $150.00 17) ZAC supplies strobe/nav light kit, (2) aeroflash power supplies, 10 Amp beaker/switch, white tail light $250.00 18) (2) seats bought from Flypass, these include a seperate base that fits in the 601 seat pan as well as the seat. Gray in color. Paid $430.00. $ 200.00 19) Cable crimper for nicopress cables, (aircraft spruce P/N 64CGMP/CUTTER) List $169.95 $125.00 20) Instrument Hole punch (www.aircraft-tool.com) (P/N 123C) Lists $119.95 $75.00 21) Hand Swagging tool with cable holder and sleeve Gauge $25.00 22) ZAC supplied seat belts, (2) lap belts and shoulder harnesses, black, Lists $75.00 $40.00 All Items are in good order as I removed them from my 601HDS. All prices are in U.S. dollars. Items are located in Northern Virginia and buyer pays shipping. I will ship anyway you want on anything except the engine. It must be picked up by the buyer as it has had gas/oil in it. I am willing to negotiate on any item and can email photos. rkmk@erols.ocm Thanks, Roger Kilby ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:56 AM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator cables --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com > How much this tension on the cables will be noticed once the wings (and flaperons oc course) will be installed? Gary I worried about that also. My cables are almost slack. Slack enough so they can give full right aileron and full up elevator travel without pulling back towards neutral. I have bungees keeping the cables from rubbing. In flight it is not noticeable at all. Dave Smith N701XL 912ULS 27 hr. >do not archive< ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:37 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: For Sale... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Roger: I'll take the Encoder and ELT, if they are still available. George do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger & Mary" Subject: Zenith-List: For Sale... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger & Mary" > > I am parting out my 601HDS due to medical / family issues. > The following items are for sale: > > > 1) Rotax 912 UL, 80HP, S/N 4403275, 50HR Total Time > ZAC supplied muffler, oil tank and oil cooler $7,500.00 > > 2) Airplast PV 50 Prop and spinner, 66", black, 4 Hours Total Time $2,000.00 > > 3) Warp Drive Prop and spinner, 68", with nickel leading edge > tapered blades, 46 HR Total Time $450.00 > > 4) King KY97A Comm, with CI-401-31KC Comm Antenna $750.00 > > 5) King KT-76A Transponder $800.00 > > 6) Ameri-King AK-350 Altitude Encoder $100.00 > > 7) Ameri-King AK-450 ELT W/aircraft antenna $125.00 > > 8) FlightComm 403MC 2-place intercomm $100.00 > > 9) ZAC instrument pkg: includes: A/S, altitmeter, oil pressure, > oil temp, water temp, voltmeter, tachometer and hobbs. > I replaced their compass with a PAI-700 Vertical card compass > (retail $255.00) $500.00 > > 10) Turn Coordinator (aircraft spruce P/N 10-22510) $175.00 > > 11) Vertical Speed Indicator, UMA ,3 1/8", 0-2000FT, > (aircraft spruce P/N 10-20505) $50.00 > > 12) Manifold Pressure Gauge, UMA, 2 1/4", 0 -35PSI $50.00 > > 13) ZAC Rotax 912 Motor Mount, Powder coated black, > Lists $450.00 $200.00 > > 14) ZAC "Y" handle control yoke, Lists $119.00 $50.00 > > 15) Nose wheel and 2 main wheel asseblies, Lists $162.00 $100.00 > > 16) Rudder pedels, with ZAC supplies brakes, Lists 259.00 $150.00 > > 17) ZAC supplies strobe/nav light kit, (2) aeroflash power > supplies, 10 Amp beaker/switch, white tail light $250.00 > > 18) (2) seats bought from Flypass, these include a seperate > base that fits in the 601 seat pan as well as the seat. > Gray in color. Paid $430.00. $ 200.00 > > 19) Cable crimper for nicopress cables, (aircraft spruce > P/N 64CGMP/CUTTER) List $169.95 $125.00 > > 20) Instrument Hole punch (www.aircraft-tool.com) > (P/N 123C) Lists $119.95 $75.00 > > 21) Hand Swagging tool with cable holder and sleeve Gauge $25.00 > > 22) ZAC supplied seat belts, (2) lap belts and shoulder > harnesses, black, Lists $75.00 $40.00 > > All Items are in good order as I removed them from my 601HDS. All prices are in U.S. dollars. > Items are located in Northern Virginia and buyer pays shipping. I will ship anyway you want on anything > except the engine. It must be picked up by the buyer as it has had gas/oil in it. > I am willing to negotiate on any item and can email photos. > rkmk@erols.ocm > > Thanks, > > Roger Kilby > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:01 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Prop Clearance.. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" Bob In the Sept. 2003 issue of Experimenter is an article on Aircraft noise "Toward a More Civilized Noise Level" p31 that talks alot about prop noise. Just something you may want to consider. Also you guys with your own airstrips or those planning their own as well. Kevin ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:44 PM PST US From: "Steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: For Sale... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve" Good prices!! Are we ready? I guess you are getting close. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger & Mary" Subject: Zenith-List: For Sale... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger & Mary" > > I am parting out my 601HDS due to medical / family issues. > The following items are for sale: > > > 1) Rotax 912 UL, 80HP, S/N 4403275, 50HR Total Time > ZAC supplied muffler, oil tank and oil cooler $7,500.00 > > 2) Airplast PV 50 Prop and spinner, 66", black, 4 Hours Total Time $2,000.00 > > 3) Warp Drive Prop and spinner, 68", with nickel leading edge > tapered blades, 46 HR Total Time $450.00 > > 4) King KY97A Comm, with CI-401-31KC Comm Antenna $750.00 > > 5) King KT-76A Transponder $800.00 > > 6) Ameri-King AK-350 Altitude Encoder $100.00 > > 7) Ameri-King AK-450 ELT W/aircraft antenna $125.00 > > 8) FlightComm 403MC 2-place intercomm $100.00 > > 9) ZAC instrument pkg: includes: A/S, altitmeter, oil pressure, > oil temp, water temp, voltmeter, tachometer and hobbs. > I replaced their compass with a PAI-700 Vertical card compass > (retail $255.00) $500.00 > > 10) Turn Coordinator (aircraft spruce P/N 10-22510) $175.00 > > 11) Vertical Speed Indicator, UMA ,3 1/8", 0-2000FT, > (aircraft spruce P/N 10-20505) $50.00 > > 12) Manifold Pressure Gauge, UMA, 2 1/4", 0 -35PSI $50.00 > > 13) ZAC Rotax 912 Motor Mount, Powder coated black, > Lists $450.00 $200.00 > > 14) ZAC "Y" handle control yoke, Lists $119.00 $50.00 > > 15) Nose wheel and 2 main wheel asseblies, Lists $162.00 $100.00 > > 16) Rudder pedels, with ZAC supplies brakes, Lists 259.00 $150.00 > > 17) ZAC supplies strobe/nav light kit, (2) aeroflash power > supplies, 10 Amp beaker/switch, white tail light $250.00 > > 18) (2) seats bought from Flypass, these include a seperate > base that fits in the 601 seat pan as well as the seat. > Gray in color. Paid $430.00. $ 200.00 > > 19) Cable crimper for nicopress cables, (aircraft spruce > P/N 64CGMP/CUTTER) List $169.95 $125.00 > > 20) Instrument Hole punch (www.aircraft-tool.com) > (P/N 123C) Lists $119.95 $75.00 > > 21) Hand Swagging tool with cable holder and sleeve Gauge $25.00 > > 22) ZAC supplied seat belts, (2) lap belts and shoulder > harnesses, black, Lists $75.00 $40.00 > > All Items are in good order as I removed them from my 601HDS. All prices are in U.S. dollars. > Items are located in Northern Virginia and buyer pays shipping. I will ship anyway you want on anything > except the engine. It must be picked up by the buyer as it has had gas/oil in it. > I am willing to negotiate on any item and can email photos. > rkmk@erols.ocm > > Thanks, > > Roger Kilby > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:03 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dimpled floating nut plates --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" Thank you George, Jack and Ed for your responses. I finally met up with my EAA Tech counselor today and he's got a dimple set that's ground down so you can dimple the lugs. I got the term "bottom countersunk" from one of the distributors. She's the one that also provided me with the actual MS number for these little guys, even though they didn't have any. Jack, your "barn" looks great! Again thanks for the responses. Mark Stauffer do not archive