Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:15 AM - Re: Temporarily crossing over (Michel Therrien)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: 601 Sliding Canopy- Possible? (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
3. 05:59 AM - Re: Sliding Canopy (Phil Raker)
4. 06:56 AM - Re: Temporarily crossing over (Monty Graves)
5. 07:19 AM - Re: Temporarily crossing over (Keith Ashcraft)
6. 07:54 AM - Re: For Sale... (Jack Russell)
7. 08:22 AM - Re: For Sale... (Rodgers, Robert)
8. 08:55 AM - Access Panels and Fuel Tank Covers (RURUNY@aol.com)
9. 09:02 AM - Re: Temporarily crossing over (Jon Croke)
10. 09:04 AM - Access panel details (RURUNY@aol.com)
11. 09:15 AM - Re: Temporarily crossing over (Keith Ashcraft)
12. 10:28 AM - Fuel Access (RURUNY@aol.com)
13. 12:00 PM - Re: Temporarily crossing over (Monty Graves)
14. 12:25 PM - Re: Access Panels and Fuel Tank Covers (Ed Kramer)
15. 01:58 PM - Forming ribs (George Swinford)
16. 02:36 PM - Inoperatable Strobes (LARRY BOHANNON)
17. 04:10 PM - Re: Inoperatable Strobes (Thomas F Marson)
18. 04:51 PM - Re: Inoperatable Strobes (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
19. 05:18 PM - Re: Forming ribs (Randy L. Thwing)
20. 05:52 PM - Dry Soldering Joint (Larry McFarland)
21. 05:52 PM - Second guessing my Aluminum choice (Keith Ashcraft)
22. 06:17 PM - Re: Second guessing my Aluminum choice (Carlos Sa)
23. 06:21 PM - Re: Forming ribs (Thomas F Marson)
24. 06:52 PM - Re: Second guessing my Aluminum choice (Scott Laughlin)
25. 07:37 PM - New to the group (Jarek M. Walter)
26. 08:06 PM - Why is 8' bending brake needed? (Joe Kerr)
27. 09:38 PM - Re: Dry Soldering Joint (Thomas F Marson)
28. 10:48 PM - Re: Why is 8' bending brake needed? (Graham Kirby)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Temporarily crossing over |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Making the ribs is not hard at all... all you need is
patience. On the 701, you can cut multiple blanks
simultaneously... that makes it much faster than if
you built ribs for the HDS model for example.
If it's not already done, have a look at this page:
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/chwribs.htm
Michel
--- Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
>
> Making ribs scares me.... doesnt look as easy as the
> spars... maybe I'll
> have to check the ZAC prices on ribs to help me with
> that decision.....
> Probably these are easy for the experienced scratch
> builders...... I am just
> a 'kit' builder.... but I did cross over for a
> little while there....
>
> definitely DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Sliding Canopy- Possible? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
I believe someone out there has installed a sliding canopy on the 601. Check
the archives, maybe it's mentioned in there somewhere.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
> <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
>
> Just wanted to poll the collective engineering talent out there.
> I have a HD with a busted canopy that could be modified to leave a
> front windshield for a sliding canopy. However I'm advised that the fuse
> sides won't permit it.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sliding Canopy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Hello, Perry,
My understanding of the issue is that there are no structural (strength)
issues which would prevent use of a sliding canopy. The only issue is the fact
that, in the cabin region, the 601's fuselage taper has the narrow end to the
front. That makes design of the rails potentially a bit more difficult. There
is at least one builder out there, who used to be a participant on this list (I
don't remember his name.), who built one with a sliding canopy. It looked
really nice from the pictures he posted. I believe his plane ended up being a
bit on the heavy side of average, but flew well.
Phil Raker N556P - HDS/Stratus ~80% completed
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison"
> <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
>
> Just wanted to poll the collective engineering talent out there.
> I have a HD with a busted canopy that could be modified to leave a
> front windshield for a sliding canopy. However I'm advised that the fuse
> sides won't permit it.
__________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Temporarily crossing over |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
Way to go Jon,
See I felt it was the other way. I have been putting off the spars,
Ribs just take practice too. Need a few more tools. a fluting tool.
make one or buy one. I bought one from Wag Aero. At the Zenith factory
they use homemade ones. Made from a cleco tool. With 3 pieces of 1/4 inch
rod welded on. Plumbers pliers (Channel Locks) would work just as well.
Or make one like in the plans,
In making ribs, have to make the forming blocks. A small 1 inch belt
sander helps a lot but isn't necessary. But the 30 inch by 1 inch Delta
belt sander is the best tool value I have EVER bought. $70 Rough cut the
form block by whatever means, jig saw/band saw, then set the sander table
to the desired SLANT for spring back, and sand to line. Then round over
the bend radius with a wood file or router. On half of one form block,
takes about 20 minutes each side.
I used 5/8 inch cheap particle board, others use maple, oak, or MDF.
Any of these will work well enough to make one complete set of ribs.
The nose rib forming blocks really need a piece of alum on the leading
edge. I used a router to do this but could be done with a table saw....to
rabbit in the 1/8 inch alum piece..
My first rib I didn't think turned out very well, IN FACT it looked like
crap, curved and bowed. I took my blocks and a few blanks over to
another scratch builders, and said show me how. He did it just like I
did, and when he pulled it out. It looked just like mine. Crap!!!!
Then he lay it down on a flat table, and started working on it with the
fluting tool, a small square, and the mallet, pushing the flutes a
little here, one way here, the opposite way there, till it laid flat,
That was a trick I didn't know you could do....Then he checked the bends
for square, adjusted with the mallet and a small piece of square lead
rapped in duct tape. I was amazed. Then he took mine and did the
same. When he got done, (in less than 2 minutes.... both looked like
factory ribs. Well shit, I can do that......... And so can anyone
else with a little practice. Adjust till they lay flat, and the bends are
square...
Thank you B.J.
Monty
At 09:56 PM 11/18/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
>I felt like I have crossed the line - to the 'other' side.. the scratch
>builder's side, at least temporarily. The following will explain nothing new
>to the scratch builders on the list -- but to the kit builders... this may
>be of interest.
>
>In the effort to rebuild 701US, I first reviewed the price list from ZAC for
>components like the wing spars. Had to start somewhere... they are about
>$500 a piece. Looking at the plans, I asked myself if I could save a cool
>grand and build them myself.... need to rivet and bend metal, something that
>was never needed with the kit building first time around. Never have done
>either before... then I realized that w/o the cash to repurchase these
>spars... no flying!
>
>Making a long story short: purchased a rivet gun for $150 and bucking bar
>for $15 and a bag of rivets... practiced and found that if you only have to
>rivet straight down towards the table (this is what the spar requires)... it
>is NOT difficult, just practice.
>
>There are a few pieces of bent metal on that spar... and I didnt have a
>brake or access to one (in the boonies up here) and I knew that typical
>brakes dont handle aluminum well because of their sharp radii. Another long
>story short, I went to Harbor Freight (model 46508-0VGA) for $125 made the
>purchase. This brake is over 100lbs of steel, (shipping is free anywhere in
>US!) up to 40" long and seems more than adequate for up to .040 sheet.
>Lucked out again when I discovered that if you take a 1/8" extrusion and
>view the edges, they are radiused approx 1/8"... so I ripped a 40" length
>down one side and placed it under the 'nose' of the brake. Never used a
>brake before in my life ...Get GREAT bends.
>
>End of story: for about $100 in materials, I have just completed 2 wing
>spars worth $1000, and have the tools to tackle those 701 fuse sides that
>also need brake and riveting. My point is that if YOU have the skill to
>build the kit... there is a good chance YOU have the ability to scratch a
>LOT of that plane. You get reduced costs and a certain sense of
>accomplishment. Great for that 2nd plane project you're thinking about!
>
>Making ribs scares me.... doesnt look as easy as the spars... maybe I'll
>have to check the ZAC prices on ribs to help me with that decision.....
>Probably these are easy for the experienced scratch builders...... I am just
>a 'kit' builder.... but I did cross over for a little while there....
>
>definitely DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Temporarily crossing over |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Hi Jon,
Good luck on scratch building. Zenith has the nose rib at approx $32,
and rear rib at approx. $36. So, at 12 each that's an $800+ bill. Larry
and Michel are right on the money. Just have a little patience and
practice. In building the tooling blocks you don't have a lot of time or
money involved so, just bend a few ribs and see how they turn out. Plus,
I think that you have original ribs that you can compare your built one
too. I on the other hand am a little hesitant to start the spar, because
of the bucking of rivets.
I haven't checked yet but are you updating your web page?
Keith
CH701
engine -- unknown
only 170% more to go!!!
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
Jon Croke wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
>I felt like I have crossed the line - to the 'other' side.. the scratch
>builder's side, at least temporarily. The following will explain nothing new
>to the scratch builders on the list -- but to the kit builders... this may
>be of interest.
>
>
>
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for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
received this email in error please notify the sender. Please note that any
views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and
do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should
check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries
accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
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Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Roger: Do you still have any of your avionics available and my second question
is did you install them new? Thanks Jack Russell
Roger & Mary <rkmk@erols.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger &
Mary"
I am parting out my 601HDS due to medical / family issues.
The following items are for sale:
1) Rotax 912 UL, 80HP, S/N 4403275, 50HR Total Time
ZAC supplied muffler, oil tank and oil cooler $7,500.00
2) Airplast PV 50 Prop and spinner, 66", black, 4 Hours Total Time $2,000.00
3) Warp Drive Prop and spinner, 68", with nickel leading edge
tapered blades, 46 HR Total Time $450.00
4) King KY97A Comm, with CI-401-31KC Comm Antenna $750.00
5) King KT-76A Transponder $800.00
6) Ameri-King AK-350 Altitude Encoder $100.00
7) Ameri-King AK-450 ELT W/aircraft antenna $125.00
8) FlightComm 403MC 2-place intercomm $100.00
9) ZAC instrument pkg: includes: A/S, altitmeter, oil pressure,
oil temp, water temp, voltmeter, tachometer and hobbs.
I replaced their compass with a PAI-700 Vertical card compass
(retail $255.00) $500.00
10) Turn Coordinator (aircraft spruce P/N 10-22510) $175.00
11) Vertical Speed Indicator, UMA ,3 1/8", 0-2000FT,
(aircraft spruce P/N 10-20505) $50.00
12) Manifold Pressure Gauge, UMA, 2 1/4", 0 -35PSI $50.00
13) ZAC Rotax 912 Motor Mount, Powder coated black,
Lists $450.00 $200.00
14) ZAC "Y" handle control yoke, Lists $119.00 $50.00
15) Nose wheel and 2 main wheel asseblies, Lists $162.00 $100.00
16) Rudder pedels, with ZAC supplies brakes, Lists 259.00 $150.00
17) ZAC supplies strobe/nav light kit, (2) aeroflash power
supplies, 10 Amp beaker/switch, white tail light $250.00
18) (2) seats bought from Flypass, these include a seperate
base that fits in the 601 seat pan as well as the seat.
Gray in color. Paid $430.00. $ 200.00
19) Cable crimper for nicopress cables, (aircraft spruce
P/N 64CGMP/CUTTER) List $169.95 $125.00
20) Instrument Hole punch (www.aircraft-tool.com)
(P/N 123C) Lists $119.95 $75.00
21) Hand Swagging tool with cable holder and sleeve Gauge $25.00
22) ZAC supplied seat belts, (2) lap belts and shoulder
harnesses, black, Lists $75.00 $40.00
All Items are in good order as I removed them from my 601HDS. All prices are in
U.S. dollars.
Items are located in Northern Virginia and buyer pays shipping. I will ship anyway
you want on anything
except the engine. It must be picked up by the buyer as it has had gas/oil in it.
I am willing to negotiate on any item and can email photos.
rkmk@erols.ocm
Thanks,
Roger Kilby
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rodgers, Robert" <RODGERR@tc.gc.ca>
Hi Roger,
Do you still have both the Strob/nav light system and the
seatbelts?? I might be interested in both if you do.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger & Mary [mailto:rkmk@erols.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: For Sale...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger & Mary" <rkmk@erols.com>
I am parting out my 601HDS due to medical / family issues.
The following items are for sale:
1) Rotax 912 UL, 80HP, S/N 4403275, 50HR Total Time
ZAC supplied muffler, oil tank and oil cooler
$7,500.00
2) Airplast PV 50 Prop and spinner, 66", black, 4 Hours Total Time
$2,000.00
3) Warp Drive Prop and spinner, 68", with nickel leading edge
tapered blades, 46 HR Total Time
$450.00
4) King KY97A Comm, with CI-401-31KC Comm Antenna $750.00
5) King KT-76A Transponder
$800.00
6) Ameri-King AK-350 Altitude Encoder
$100.00
7) Ameri-King AK-450 ELT W/aircraft antenna
$125.00
8) FlightComm 403MC 2-place intercomm
$100.00
9) ZAC instrument pkg: includes: A/S, altitmeter, oil pressure,
oil temp, water temp, voltmeter, tachometer and hobbs.
I replaced their compass with a PAI-700 Vertical card compass
(retail $255.00)
$500.00
10) Turn Coordinator (aircraft spruce P/N 10-22510)
$175.00
11) Vertical Speed Indicator, UMA ,3 1/8", 0-2000FT,
(aircraft spruce P/N 10-20505)
$50.00
12) Manifold Pressure Gauge, UMA, 2 1/4", 0 -35PSI
$50.00
13) ZAC Rotax 912 Motor Mount, Powder coated black,
Lists $450.00
$200.00
14) ZAC "Y" handle control yoke, Lists $119.00
$50.00
15) Nose wheel and 2 main wheel asseblies, Lists $162.00
$100.00
16) Rudder pedels, with ZAC supplies brakes, Lists 259.00
$150.00
17) ZAC supplies strobe/nav light kit, (2) aeroflash power
supplies, 10 Amp beaker/switch, white tail light
$250.00
18) (2) seats bought from Flypass, these include a seperate
base that fits in the 601 seat pan as well as the seat.
Gray in color. Paid $430.00.
$ 200.00
19) Cable crimper for nicopress cables, (aircraft spruce
P/N 64CGMP/CUTTER) List $169.95
$125.00
20) Instrument Hole punch (www.aircraft-tool.com)
(P/N 123C) Lists $119.95
$75.00
21) Hand Swagging tool with cable holder and sleeve Gauge $25.00
22) ZAC supplied seat belts, (2) lap belts and shoulder
harnesses, black, Lists $75.00
$40.00
All Items are in good order as I removed them from my 601HDS. All prices are
in U.S. dollars.
Items are located in Northern Virginia and buyer pays shipping. I will ship
anyway you want on anything
except the engine. It must be picked up by the buyer as it has had gas/oil
in it.
I am willing to negotiate on any item and can email photos.
rkmk@erols.ocm
Thanks,
Roger Kilby
Message 8
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| Subject: | Access Panels and Fuel Tank Covers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Hap,
I decided not to put the big square covers over my fuel tanks because the
fuel tank will not come
out anyway if you follow the instructions in the manuals for installation.
The U channel that
holds the tanks in place are inside the welded edges at the ribs and front
spar and will keep the tank from lifting straight up.
If you made your own tanks and bent the bottom edge it might work. Also the
covers provided
by Zenith were bent with an X like the baggage compartment panels and I
didn't think it would look
very good. Instead I did multiple leak checks with the ballon method and
water, and extended time
with fuel in them and all fittings and sender in place to make sure no leaks.
I made round access panels on top of wing over
sender that remove with screws and access underneith to allow rubber fuel
line to be replaced easily.
I bought a ratcheting crimper from B&C and a variety of crimp connectors ,
Spruce has crimp connectors
and I got some from them and some wire to get started. I used coil wrap and
heat shrink to make fuel
sender harnesses. I used grommets where wires passed thru ribs.
Dave,
I wrote Chris Heintz about access panels for the wings. His reply was short
with a diagram. He says to make .025 " doublers
wherever you open skin and said you could rivet the panels on or use
nutplates in the doublers and use screws.
I will send links to shutterfly slide shows showing description. I don't have
the time to build a website yet (too busy building)
but I do take pictures of everything while building.
Brian
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b35a2ae16598
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b35a2a47653e
>Now it doesn't work but the flash tube will work on the other side. I
>haven't
>put any inspection panels in my wing yet. What size panel will I need to
>emove my power supply from my wing tip? Has anyone asked Zenair about
>inspection
>panel placement? Number of fasteners?
Dave Smith
N701XL 28 hr. and loving it!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Temporarily crossing over |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
. I on the other hand am a little hesitant to start the spar, because
> of the bucking of rivets.
>
Thanks to everyone for both the encouragement and technical explanations of
getting those ribs done. It makes the mind believe that it can be done...
now if only the hands will follow..!
On that riveting: I am sincere when I say that it was easy to buck those
rivets correctly... but again my caveat was that the spar required only
driving them straight down to the table. This allowed the bucking bar to
rest on the table.. cant move, rock solid, leaving your hands to hold the
material and the gun perfectly vertical. You can get your eyeball at table
level to see that the tip is parallel to your work... and blast away. A
quick look at the other side with a simple guage tells you if you went far
enough.. if not go back and fire some more.
I noticed where things get tricky is where you have to rivet sideways, or at
an angle (neither required for the 701 spars, I was just experimenting) THEN
all hell breaks loose! The gun tip mars your surface; the bucking bar may
not be held square and tight using your hand, not the table as a support,
and the rivet has to be drilled out if you dont get it right. Dont know how
those RV builders do it... I'm sure with enough practice anything is
possible.... but my point is that if you have never done this before, with
no more than 15 mins practice, you can correctly buck rivets straight down
to the table an build your own spar!
BTW I shopped a little bit and found US Tool www.ustool.com had the best
price, just under $150 for a 3X -- and rivets are cheap compared to the pop
kind!
Thanks to all
Jon
Message 10
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| Subject: | Access panel details |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Access panel details, some text included in pics.
Brian Unruh
Long Island 701 sn 4831
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b35a2ac365ba
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Temporarily crossing over |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Hi again Jon,
I forgot to mention, when I built my tooling blocks, I kept the two
rough-cut blocks bolted together, while doing my final 90 degree
sanding. This makes the two blocks identical to each other, then I did
as Monty did, I angled the platform to the 8degree spring back angle and
sanded upto the finished line. Then finish the block out as Monty
suggests and route the 1/8"r onto the edge.
Good luck
Keith
(P.S. Thanks group for such helpful information. I am sure that Jon
appreciates it, but I, myself have learned so much from you guys, Thanks
again)
CH701
engine -- unknown
only 170% more to go!!!
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
***********************************************************
>Jon Croke wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>>
>>I felt like I have crossed the line - to the 'other' side.. the scratch
>>builder's side, at least temporarily. The following will explain nothing new
>>to the scratch builders on the list -- but to the kit builders... this may
>>be of interest.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
received this email
in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented
in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent
those of ITT Industries, Inc.
The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses.
ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus
transmitted by this
email.
************************************
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Sorry a couple more pics showing fuell access panels.
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b35a2673650c
Brian
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Temporarily crossing over |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
>BTW I shopped a little bit and found US Tool www.ustool.com had the best
>price, just under $150 for a 3X -- and rivets are cheap compared to the pop
>kind!
>
>Thanks to all
>Jon
Couple of other things, I thought of.
Every person has some small difference in their form blocks by a few mm.
I would say most scratch builders build the ribs first and then adjust the
spar a few mm either way to fit the ribs. This isn't an issure with the
kits because all the spars and ribs are made from the same forms. I would
check the fit of the first rib to make sure it fits your spar before making
any more. The rib form blocks may have to be adjusted.
the 3 mm edge bend of the nose rib is hard to get smooth with a soft tip
mallet. So use a smooth nick free steel hammer to mold the nose area to
get rid of the kinks. For me the hardest ribs to make were the flaperon
ribs.
M
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Access Panels and Fuel Tank Covers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
> I decided not to put the big square covers over my fuel tanks because the
> fuel tank will not come
> out anyway if you follow the instructions in the manuals for installation.
> The U channel that
> holds the tanks in place are inside the welded edges at the ribs and front
> spar and will keep the tank from lifting straight up.
One change I made to the fuel tank installation is to make the tank
removable.
Because, once the tank is in place & the U -channeIs are riveted, the tank
won't come out until the "U's" on rib # 2 are removed. I replaced the rivets
on the "U" channels (rib #2 only) with nutplates, & added an inspection
panel on the lower skin just outside of rib # 2 between the 2-"U" channels.
I then can remove the tank cover skin by unriveting, open the inspection
panel & unscrew the "U's" from the rib & remove the tank.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701
edair701@adelphia.net
Build Status:
Completed: Rudder,
Left wing, Right wing.
Working on flaperons
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
A plastic hammer is a good tool for forming leading edge radii, etc. It won't mar
the aluminum.
I haven't seen any mention of tooling holes. I located 3/16 inch tooling holes
at the center of the lightening holes, in both the form blocks and the rib blanks.
A piece of hardware store drill rod 1/4 inch longer than the thickness of
the form block serves as a tooling pin to locate the blank on the block and keep
it from drifting around while the rib is being formed. A backup block about
3/16 inch smaller than the form block all around will minimize bowing of the
formed rib. Later, the tooling hole serves as a pilot hole for flycutting the
lightening hole. If the rib needs no lightening hole, the presence of the tooling
hole won't weaken it.
In making a set of CH 300 ribs, I used a technique of first partially forming the
flanges by striking them with a rubber mallet, then clamping the partially
formed left and right ribs and their form blocks together, back to back, and slapping
the flanges down with a lead bar. This minimized the buckling of the flanges
and the need for corrective crimping. This technique was used in aircraft
factories 50 years ago. Lead in bar or strap shape used to be available in
hardware stores, when plumbers used a lot of it. I don't have a good source now,
but if you can find the lead the technique makes beautiful parts.
George Swinford
Message 16
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| Subject: | Inoperatable Strobes |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:21:47 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "LARRY BOHANNON" <lbohannon1@msn.com>
Dave,
Was wondering if you could tell us more about your strobe problem, or actually
what should we do to avoid the problem you had. Do you hook it to a 6 volt battery
and let it run a while before wiring into the final system?
Regards,
Larry Bohannon
Winder, Georgia
701SP
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Inoperatable Strobes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
I have a pair of aeroflash units (powersupplies inside the wingtip). One
supply failed after 6 years and the other if going strong at 8 yrs. A new
one for the failed unit cost 78 DOLLARS.
If you install in the wing make is replaceable. Tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "LARRY BOHANNON" <lbohannon1@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Inoperatable Strobes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LARRY BOHANNON" <lbohannon1@msn.com>
>
> Dave,
> Was wondering if you could tell us more about your strobe problem, or
actually what should we do to avoid the problem you had. Do you hook it to a
6 volt battery and let it run a while before wiring into the final system?
>
> Regards,
> Larry Bohannon
> Winder, Georgia
> 701SP
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Inoperatable Strobes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I had two problems with the power supplies...Both units have had the BIG
capacitor inside them break down....DO not send these back to Aeroflash...It
will cost you $50 and the component can be bought for $15 and will take
about 30 mins to drill out the rivets and solder a new one in place.
I also had a bad connection on a board...it would work when I tapped the
unit....just looked closely and found a dry joint. Two mins with a soldering
iron fixed it.
If you have a flash that don't...... Try plugging the workin flash tube into
the Possibly dud power supply to make sure it is the power supply...If it is
I'm 90% sure replacing the capactior will fix it...I've had three of them
fail.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas F Marson
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inoperatable Strobes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
--> <tmarson@pressenter.com>
I have a pair of aeroflash units (powersupplies inside the wingtip). One
supply failed after 6 years and the other if going strong at 8 yrs. A new
one for the failed unit cost 78 DOLLARS.
If you install in the wing make is replaceable. Tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "LARRY BOHANNON" <lbohannon1@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Inoperatable Strobes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "LARRY BOHANNON"
> --> <lbohannon1@msn.com>
>
> Dave,
> Was wondering if you could tell us more about your strobe problem, or
actually what should we do to avoid the problem you had. Do you hook it to a
6 volt battery and let it run a while before wiring into the final system?
>
> Regards,
> Larry Bohannon
> Winder, Georgia
> 701SP
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Forming ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
I found a rubber mallet wouldn't form a good small radius, I had a piece of
aluminum round stock about 3 inches in diameter, with a 1 1/2" hole through
it about 3/8 of an inch thick, sort of shaped like a donut but flat on the
edge. After smacking the small radius of the leading edge about halfway, I
used this metal wheel to "roll" the edge in the direction it needed to go.
Really a portable "English Wheel". You work it a little in the direction
you what the metal to go, and the aluminum actually flows and makes the
nicest curve. I of course, discovered this after I had nearly made all the
parts, so my last ones were the best ones. If pictures are needed they can
be furnished.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans
Subject: Zenith-List: Forming ribs
> A plastic hammer is a good tool for forming leading edge radii, etc. It
won't mar the aluminum.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Dry Soldering Joint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
I've been using the silver-bearing solder
from Radio Shack and have
had excellent results with it. Good wire saturation
and very strong electrical joints.
Larry
Message 21
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| Subject: | Second guessing my Aluminum choice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Hey group,
With all the rib forming discusion going on lately, I had some
discussions with some guys here at work, after they saw my tooling
blocks. They asked what type of AL do I use and I told them 6061-T6.
They say they don't see how it can be bent 90degrees around a 1/8" R.
with out stressing, they say that it needs to be heat treated after
bending. I can't find where ZAC said use 6061-T6. I do remember reading
it somewhere but I can't remember where. Have I just done some forming
that I need to redo with 2024 or a different annealing of 6061? I just
need some reassuring that 6061-T6 is correct, and a link to the article
that describes it.
Thank group,
Keith
CH701 (maybe)
************************************
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The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses.
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Second guessing my Aluminum choice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I believe this info can be found in the construction manual.
You can also find it in the ZAC web site. Here, for instance:
http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/use-tls.htm
BTW, you might want to consult AC 43.13-1b, at any of these URLs:
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/What_is_AC43_13.htm
http://www.moneypit.net/~pratt/ac43/
http://www2.faa.gov/avr/afs/300/afs300c.html
It contains tables showing the acceptable bend ratio for different alloys and material
thickness.
Happy building
Carlos
--- Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com> wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted
by: Keith
Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
>
>
> Hey group,
> With all the rib forming discusion going on lately, I had some
> discussions with some guys here at work, after they saw my tooling
> blocks. They asked what type of AL do I use and I told them 6061-T6.
> They say they don't see how it can be bent 90degrees around a 1/8" R.
> with out stressing, they say that it needs to be heat treated after
> bending. I can't find where ZAC said use 6061-T6. I do remember reading
> it somewhere but I can't remember where. Have I just done some forming
> that I need to redo with 2024 or a different annealing of 6061? I just
> need some reassuring that 6061-T6 is correct, and a link to the article
> that describes it.
>
> Thank group,
>
> Keith
> CH701 (maybe)
>
>
> ************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely
for the use of
> the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this
email
> in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented
in this
> email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of
ITT Industries,
> Inc.
> The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of
viruses. ITT
> Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
by this
> email.
> ************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Forming ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Please send pic. tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forming ribs
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing"
<n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
> I found a rubber mallet wouldn't form a good small radius, I had a piece
of
> aluminum round stock about 3 inches in diameter, with a 1 1/2" hole
through
> it about 3/8 of an inch thick, sort of shaped like a donut but flat on the
> edge. After smacking the small radius of the leading edge about halfway,
I
> used this metal wheel to "roll" the edge in the direction it needed to go.
> Really a portable "English Wheel". You work it a little in the direction
> you what the metal to go, and the aluminum actually flows and makes the
> nicest curve. I of course, discovered this after I had nearly made all
the
> parts, so my last ones were the best ones. If pictures are needed they
can
> be furnished.
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Second guessing my Aluminum choice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Keith:
Try this from ZAC's website:
http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/allmetal.htm
"2024-T4 and 6061-T6 are two of the most common alloys used in kit aircraft
today, and are readily available in many forms at affordable prices. The
more modern 6061-T6 alloy is a very versatile alloy for aircraft
construction, providing superior corrosion resistance, good formability
(easy to work with), and flexibility and strength."
You don't have to second guess yourself. Keep working with 6061-T6.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Second guessing my Aluminum choice
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Hey group,
With all the rib forming discusion going on lately, I had some
discussions with some guys here at work, after they saw my tooling
blocks. They asked what type of AL do I use and I told them 6061-T6.
They say they don't see how it can be bent 90degrees around a 1/8" R.
with out stressing, they say that it needs to be heat treated after
bending. I can't find where ZAC said use 6061-T6. I do remember reading
it somewhere but I can't remember where. Have I just done some forming
that I need to redo with 2024 or a different annealing of 6061? I just
need some reassuring that 6061-T6 is correct, and a link to the article
that describes it.
Thank group,
Keith
CH701 (maybe)
************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this email
in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions
presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc.
The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence
of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any
virus transmitted by this
email.
************************************
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Message 25
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| Subject: | New to the group |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter" <jarek.walter@sympatico.ca>
Hello everyone,
I've been following the correspondence for number of weeks now while waiting
for the plans for CH701 to arrive. Now I feel that having a serial number
gives me a privilege to ask questions. Therefore theri is my first one
addressed to those who are located in Ontario, Canada:
Do you have any suggestions about the best place to get 6061-T6? I've been
to a couple of places, but they didn't have a stuff (telling me that it's
not very popular - we know it - it's populat to us or wanted two or three
times more what Spruce Aircraft is charging). I'm under the impression that
living in Toronto should give me an ability to aviod shipping charges.
I scanned the archives for this information, but it looks to me that most of
it belong in archivas for sure.
Would appreciate any suggestions.
Regards to everyone, Jarek M. Walter
Message 26
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| Subject: | Why is 8' bending brake needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Kerr" <jkerr@pcweb.net>
Hello list-
I see a number of scratch builders fabricating their own 8' bending brake. Is
there something about the longer aluminum parts that require these to be formed
with a bending brake rather than fabricating a long form block from wood and
just hammering the metal over? It seems to me that investing in a 4' brake for
the 85% of parts that are 4' or less and fabricating long form blocks to make
things like wing spars could be a money or time saver compared to building
an entire 8 foot brake. Am I missing something?
-Joe
601 XL .01% complete
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Dry Soldering Joint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
I have never bought into the (what I call a Myth) that a crimped connection
is a more reliable connection.
It seem easier to make a crimp with no training, I will give it that. Is it
more reliable ?----highly questionable and is it less likely to break maybe-
?--- is the crimped connection more dependable than a proper solder
connection? I personally belive 100 "properly" soldered and 100 "properly
made crimped" if compared in actual service the soldered would be far more
reliable. In crimping we have not only the need to properly insert exactly
the right amount of wire into the fitting we need a good crimping tool (not
just any) the tool has to be mated with the correct connectors and the
crimping pressure etc. There are lots of areas to fail in. Then there are
the screws that have to be tightened correctly and have to remain so in the
face of vibration.
I have worked both at length. I started makeing connections at White Sands
Missle Range in the mid 50s doing wiring on critical missile components. I
have never one time had a soldered connection break that I know of in
missiles Radars I worked on, or in the 4 homebuilt aircraft I have made. In
the RV6 I deviated to follow the crimping process that most builers were
following and over time found a couple of loose connections.
Learning how to solder is not all that difficult and of course it is
important to support wires mechanically so that vibration is not transmitted
to the connection area------ this goes for both crimped or soldered
connections.
Over time there have been many automated process to do crimping and wire
wraping etc. But we are not talking that here as we build our airplanes. We
are talking the same technology and same human skills I was using in Guided
Missiles in 1953 thru 1964 when I left that field.
Just my 2 cents----------- Tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Dry Soldering Joint
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Frank,
> I've been using the silver-bearing solder
> from Radio Shack and have
> had excellent results with it. Good wire saturation
> and very strong electrical joints.
>
> Larry
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Why is 8' bending brake needed? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <gkirby@yahoo.com>
Joe,
I think if you tried this technique on a long piece you would find that no
matter how gradually you worked along the part you were bending you would
always get some longitudinal stretching of the metal. Each time you hammer a
portion of the flange to bend it around the edge, it also stretches the
metal either side of the flange. This would inevitably cause the spar to
bend a little.
Graham Kirby 601HD
Hello list-
I see a number of scratch builders fabricating their own 8' bending brake.
Is there something about the longer aluminum parts that require these to be
formed with a bending brake rather than fabricating a long form block from
wood and just hammering the metal over? It seems to me that investing in a
4' brake for the 85% of parts that are 4' or less and fabricating long form
blocks to make things like wing spars could be a money or time saver
compared to building an entire 8 foot brake. Am I missing something? -Joe
601 XL .01% complete
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