Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:58 AM - Re: dents and scratches (Weston, Jim)
2. 05:13 AM - Re: Short Pilot in a 601XL? (Dave Kubassek)
3. 06:04 AM - Re: dents and scratches (jnbolding1)
4. 06:18 AM - Re: Short Pilot in a 601XL? (Bill Howerton)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Scared of the 8 ' brake... (jnbolding1)
6. 06:43 AM - Re: Scared of the 8 ' brake... (Monty Graves)
7. 06:47 AM - Re: dents and scratches (BFD)
8. 07:01 AM - Re: dents and scratches (H. Robert Schoenberger)
9. 08:20 AM - SHORT PILOT (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
10. 09:29 AM - Extruded longerons and thicker skins on 701 (Jarek M. Walter)
11. 11:39 AM - Fuel tank foam (Brett Hanley)
12. 12:03 PM - Re: Extruded longerons and thicker skins on 701 (Dave Austin)
13. 12:25 PM - Re: SHORT PILOT ()
14. 01:50 PM - 601XL Trim (Frank Jones)
15. 02:41 PM - Really Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | dents and scratches |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Patrick,
I've never tried it, but I've heard that if an aluminum airplane got dented, from
hail or hangar rash, that you can alternately heat and cool the dented area
with a hair dryer and then an ice cube and the dent will slowly work its way
out. I've also heard of parking airplanes in the desert to remove/minimize hail
damage. Hot during the day and cool at night. Just some thoughts.
Jim Weston
McDonough, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pwalsh4539@aol.com [mailto:Pwalsh4539@aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: dents and scratches
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com
Darn!!!!...I was moving my 601 HD back to the airport by trailer and was
VERY careful...(so I thought). Somehow, I managed to scratch and dent the top
of the right wing between the ribs just outside of the wing locker area. The
dents are long scrapes...perhaps 1/8 inch wide and zig-zagging back and forth
about 2 feet long, somewhat deeper at the corners. There is little damage, if
any to the paint, but I am a little concerned about structural fatigue in this
area as well as cosmetic....it really looks bad. Anyone have any ideas on how
to repair such damage, at least from an appearance standpoint? (the structural
part should not be difficult).
On a little more positive note, for those who are interested, I took bi
biennial flight review last week in a Cessna 172...I have not been flying much
for
the last few months...and that 172 felt like a freight train.(yes, I was a
little rusty)...not knocking it at all, but boy, when I got mine to the airport
and got the wings on, etc....I took her up for a short hop (gross
weight)....and it just LEPT off the runway....such great feel...and SO easy to
fly...just
a great little airplane! Where did that "rustyness" go???!! I was
considering selling it, but I think I will keep it after all. I have been busy
with a
lot of other things as of late and have kind of been out of flying "mode"...but
I just re-sold myself on it earlier today!
The point??...you people out there building a 601 (and 701 also, as far as
I have heard)...keep it up...they are great little airplanes.
Patrick Walsh
601 HD...back at the "big" airport
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Short Pilot in a 601XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
All you should have to do is install the pedals closer back .
which should be quite doable.
in my case at 6.1 i should have moved them ahead a little.
still might
dave kubassek.
601 XL 0235 C-FDSF. 25 hrs (still smiling)
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Short Pilot in a 601XL?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
> I'm thinking of building a 601 XL. I'm a tad short at 5' 2" (5'3" after
> a long sleep ;-). Will I fit!?
>
> Are there any short pilots out there that have tried this?
>
> I guess I can 'make things fit' - that being the beauty of a homebuilt,
> but I don't want to end up with something that a tall person couldn't
> fly.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks
> ..lance
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | dents and scratches |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>
>Patrick,
>
>I've never tried it, but I've heard that if an aluminum airplane got dented, from
hail or hangar rash, that you can alternately heat and cool the dented area
with a hair dryer and then an ice cube and the dent will slowly work its way
out. I've also heard of parking airplanes in the desert to remove/minimize hail
damage. Hot during the day and cool at night. Just some thoughts.
>
>Jim Weston
>McDonough, Ga.
>
Unfortunatly when you stretch the metal (as with a hailstone) you've done just
that. Heat/cool cycles won't change it. Easy to prove to yourself with a piece
of scrap. LOW&SLOW John Bolding
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Short Pilot in a 601XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
There was a discussion that started a while ago regarding pedal placement
I'm a fairly short pilot (5' 7 3/4") I got a number of responses from
shorter pilots, who told me that they simply moved the pedals back to the
rear limit allowed in the plans: 245 mm from the front of the cabin floor,
and they work just fine. As far as the height is concerned, a couple told
me that they simply put extra cushions into the seats to get their heads up.
The nice thing about the XL is that huge bubble canopy. It's so easy to sea
out of -- admittedly that's one big reason I chose that kit.
I'm now at the stage of building that I have test fitted the instrument
panel, and I find I can see over it very easily -- something that is
typically difficult for me in a Cessna 172
Bill Howerton
601XL Corvair
N714BH -- Fuse 75%, tail done
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Short Pilot in a 601XL?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
>
> All you should have to do is install the pedals closer back .
> which should be quite doable.
> in my case at 6.1 i should have moved them ahead a little.
> still might
> dave kubassek.
> 601 XL 0235 C-FDSF. 25 hrs (still smiling)
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Short Pilot in a 601XL?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
> <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
> >
> > I'm thinking of building a 601 XL. I'm a tad short at 5' 2" (5'3" after
> > a long sleep ;-). Will I fit!?
> >
> > Are there any short pilots out there that have tried this?
> >
> > I guess I can 'make things fit' - that being the beauty of a homebuilt,
> > but I don't want to end up with something that a tall person couldn't
> > fly.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks
> > ..lance
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Scared of the 8 ' brake... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
It seems to me that only rear fuselege longerons (CH701) need a
>long brake to form a corner. Do you guys think that's ok to use extruded
>6061 corner (maybe a little bit thicker) insead of the specified formed 1/8"
>radius one? With this approach it would be possible to have only one piece
>longeron instead of two reveted parts (as on 7-F-7). Please, comment.
>Jarek
>(CH701 - getting close to ordering aluminium to build from plans)
You might want to drop back 5 yds and rethink the game plan. If you dive off
into this project with the mental attitude that every time you run into something
thats a little hard to find/make it's ok to put in something stronger/ HEAVIER
then you will have an airplane that's heavier than designed. The weight you
add comes out of the payload. Over the last 35 yrs of building little airplanes
I've talked personally with several of the notables in our hobby, namely
John Thorp, Molt Taylor, C.G. Taylor, Leon Davis, Chris Heintz, Dick Van Grunsven
and others. Their ONE biggest collective complaint is the weight that a lot
of builders are comfortable adding to their designs through additional structure
or equipment. Dave Thurston took me to task on a project we were working
on about 15 yrs ago over additional weight when I THOUGHT I had the proper attitude.
Develop a passion for keeping it light (easy to do with Chris's designs,
just follow the plans) LOW&SLOW John Bolding 701
plans
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Scared of the 8 ' brake... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
At 08:01 PM 11/20/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter"
<jarek.walter@sympatico.ca>
>
>following all the latest messages flying on the board and looking for other
>solution. It seems to me that only rear fuselege longerons (CH701) need a
>long brake to form a corner. Do you guys think that's ok to use extruded
>6061 corner (maybe a little bit thicker) insead of the specified formed 1/8"
>radius one? With this approach it would be possible to have only one piece
>longeron instead of two reveted parts (as on 7-F-7). Please, comment.
>Jarek
>(CH701 - getting close to ordering aluminium to build from plans)
There are some other pieces longer than 4ft. in the 701 that require to
be bent besides the longerons. Namely the 2 flaperon spars, and rudder spar.
The tail wheel option plans offered from Zenith call for the longerons to
be for the same .093 extrusion as spars. I believe there is at least one
701 tail dragger builder on the list. He might be able to answer where he
got those extrusions.
Monty
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: dents and scratches |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "BFD" <mrclean@arkansas.net>
We have repaired dents with a heat gun and dry ice. Work slowly and
carefully.Bill D.
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: dents and scratches
> --> I've heard that if an aluminum airplane got dented, from hail or
hangar rash, that you can alternately heat and cool the dented area with a
hair dryer and then an ice cube and the dent will slowly work its way out.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: dents and scratches |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
Patrick . . . why not put a "plate" of skin material over the damaged area,
the plate extending from rib to tib and to the nearest riveted supports
front and aft. This would be very similar to the fuel tank cover (approx
20" x 30") which I just installed in the right wing of my 701 under
construction. It doesn't look bad at all. Robert Schoenberger do not
archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <Pwalsh4539@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: dents and scratches
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Pwalsh4539@aol.com
>
> Darn!!!!...I was moving my 601 HD back to the airport by trailer and was
> VERY careful...(so I thought). Somehow, I managed to scratch and dent the
top
> of the right wing between the ribs just outside of the wing locker area.
The
> dents are long scrapes...perhaps 1/8 inch wide and zig-zagging back and
forth
> about 2 feet long, somewhat deeper at the corners. There is little damage,
if
> any to the paint, but I am a little concerned about structural fatigue in
this
> area as well as cosmetic....it really looks bad. Anyone have any ideas on
how
> to repair such damage, at least from an appearance standpoint? (the
structural
> part should not be difficult).
> On a little more positive note, for those who are interested, I took bi
> biennial flight review last week in a Cessna 172...I have not been flying
much for
> the last few months...and that 172 felt like a freight train.(yes, I was a
> little rusty)...not knocking it at all, but boy, when I got mine to the
airport
> and got the wings on, etc....I took her up for a short hop (gross
> weight)....and it just LEPT off the runway....such great feel...and SO
easy to fly...just
> a great little airplane! Where did that "rustyness" go???!! I was
> considering selling it, but I think I will keep it after all. I have been
busy with a
> lot of other things as of late and have kind of been out of flying
"mode"...but
> I just re-sold myself on it earlier today!
> The point??...you people out there building a 601 (and 701 also, as far
as
> I have heard)...keep it up...they are great little airplanes.
> Patrick Walsh
> 601 HD...back at the "big" airport
>
>
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 11/21/03 12:01:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
I'm thinking of building a 601 XL. I'm a tad short at 5' 2" (5'3" after
a long sleep ;-). Will I fit!?
**As a CFI for over 40 years I have seen lots of custom made seat cushions in
many aircraft, have a standard set if you wish tall people to fly it! Also
adjustable rudder pedals. Your personal visibility and controllability is most
important for safety!
Tis easier to install & remove cushions than to rebuild canopy! If I recall
the Heintz young men aren't exactly short so must be plenty of room for those
whose head is further from the rudder pedals!
Elbie
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 10
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| Subject: | Extruded longerons and thicker skins on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter" <jarek.walter@sympatico.ca>
FYI:
As you can see from the response from Nick Heintz, he wasn't as negative
about the idea as some members of our list. I think that keeping open mind
involves asking questions and there is not reason to run down the person
asking the question (even if the question is the most stupid one).
Now it's up to me to make the decision.
Jarek
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zenith Aircraft Company" <info@zenithair.com>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Inquiry about construction
>
> >
> > > I'm just about to order aluminium materials for my CH701 (serial
> > > 5331) and it was suggested to me that instead of using 6061-T6 0.016
> > > for skins, I would be better of using 6061-T6 0.020 instead (less
> > > wrinkle and more solid). I did my calculation and it would increase
> > > the weight of the aircraft by 77 lbs. Additionally, I was told that
> > > instead of formed rear fusalage longerons (as per 7-F-3), I can use
> > > structured, extruded 3/4" 6061-T6 corner. Do you see any reasons why
> > > I shouldn'd follow this advice?
> > ************************************************************
> > Thicker skins can be used, however it may not necessarily accomplish
> > the desired results. The Longerons would be similar to the 801
> > fuselage construction.
> >
> > Nick Heintz
> > Zenith Aircraft Company
> > support@zenithair.com
> > http://www.zenithair.com
> > ************************************************************
> > Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the
> > advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith
> > Aircraft Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or
> > omissions. Any advice or information that Zenith Aircraft Company
> > gives you via any form of communication is not a guarantee that it
> > will correct your problem. It is only offered as assistance to you.
> > Zenith Aircraft Company will not be held responsible for any loss or
> > damage as a result of our advice or information supplied.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Please contact us should you require any additional information.
>
> Regards,
> Zenith Aircraft Company
> info@zenithair.com
> http://www.zenithair.com
>
> (573) 581-9000 (Mon-Fri, 8-5 Central)
> (573) 581-0011 Fax
>
> Write us at:
> Zenith Aircraft Company
> Mexico Memorial Airport, PO Box 650
> Mexico, Missouri 65265-0650 USA
>
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
Anyone interested in building fuel tanks should
consider using foam inside them. This has been used
for years in auto racing. Below is a contact:
We make Explosion Suppression Foam. The foam we put
in fuel tanks helps prevent Hydraulic Ram effect
& minimizes fuel spray in a crash, & hence lessens the
chance of
explosive combustion but it is not fire retardant nor
will it keep fire from burning
the fuel .
If that is what you are looking for, how much do you
need & in what configuration.
Regards
Tom Myers
Crest Foam
info@crestfoam.com
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Extruded longerons and thicker skins on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
Hi Jarek,
I understand your wish to get by the longeron problem the way you propose,
but weight really is important with these small aircraft.
I learned way back when I built my 601 that it is possible to save
significant weight by just cutting off the non-structure ends of the L
stiffener pieces at 45 degrees. The dozens/hundreds of little triangle bits
all add up. There are many other opportunities.
It makes takeoff runs shorter, landing runs shorter, glide angles less
steep, better climb rate, less fuel per mile, higher speeds, less strain on
the a/c in turns and pull-ups - I won't go on.
I'd like to advise if I may, really try to find a way to bend the eight feet
rather than using the heavier extrusion.
Building is fun.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 - 544 hrs
Message 13
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Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:24:59 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
If I may add my two cents worth---- A friend building an HDS has a similar problem,
with a very short ladyfriend who will be riding right seat. After scratching
our heads for a while, we came up with a potential solution. The top of the
rudder pedal is a round bar; if you build a sleeve to fit over it, add the right
size hollow aluminum block to accommodate short legs, you have a slip-on
pedal extension. Add a short length of flat stock to contact the vertical tubing
of the pedal to keep the pedal extension from rotating rearward and down, and
it will stay in place. When not needed, you just flip it up over the top, and
it's out of the way. For extra finesse, a slot cut in the sleeve, and a small
screw through the slot and into the forward side of the rudder pedal will keep
it from sliding off. He's in the process of fabricating it now, and we expect
to fit them shortly. (no pun intended)
Paul Rodriguez
601XL, working on the right wing
----- Original Message -----
From: RiteAngle3@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:19 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: SHORT PILOT
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 11/21/03 12:01:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
I'm thinking of building a 601 XL. I'm a tad short at 5' 2" (5'3" after
a long sleep ;-). Will I fit!?
**As a CFI for over 40 years I have seen lots of custom made seat cushions in
many aircraft, have a standard set if you wish tall people to fly it! Also
adjustable rudder pedals. Your personal visibility and controllability is most
important for safety!
Tis easier to install & remove cushions than to rebuild canopy! If I recall
the Heintz young men aren't exactly short so must be plenty of room for those
whose head is further from the rudder pedals!
Elbie
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
I'm trying to figure out if my trim configuration is the same as any
other 601XL's. This is what I'm experiencing. I've realigned my
horizontal stabilizer several times to ensure that straight and level at
cruise is trimmed in the neutral position. It's pretty close now, and
may make no further adjustments but I still require a bit of nose up.
Here's my question/concern. When I apply flaps, even half flaps, I
require more nose up trim than I've got. The stick requires some pretty
good back pressure when at 75mph and half flaps with full nose up trim.
Ideally I could trim this away, but there just isn't enough. Is this a
design feature, or just my implementation?
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
601XL 912S
Ottawa
Message 15
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| Subject: | Really Nice Comments... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
We're nearing the end of this year's List Fund Raiser and I wanted to share
some of the really nice comments members have been making about the Lists
and what the Lists mean to them. Please take a moment to read over some of
the thought's members have shared with me in the last couple of weeks
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If you haven't taken a moment to show your support for the operation and
upgrade of these services, won't you do so now? These Lists are operated
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your yearly support, the Lists may cease to exist in the future. It takes
your resources to keep these systems up. Remember, there's no advertising
budget to keep things afloat. I think pretty much everyone appreciates the
fact that I don't have any pop-ads or flashing banners of any kind on the
List. Your support assures it will stay that way.
Please make your contribution today and, in one small, way fight off the
every increasing commercialism creep that is taking over the Internet!! :-)
The SSL Secure web site for making your List Contribution can be found here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you to everyone that has already showed their support for the List!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
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