---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/04/03: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:16 AM - A Special Thank You - List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) 2. 06:45 AM - Re: The first of many dumb questions (caspainhower@aep.com) 3. 07:18 AM - wings: wires and what's inside (Dave Alberti) 4. 09:47 AM - Re: Wing quandry (Bill Cardell) 5. 11:24 AM - Re: Re: Wing quandry (caspainhower@aep.com) 6. 12:04 PM - Re: The first of many dumb questions (Bill Cardell) 7. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Wing quandry (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 8. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Wing quandry (Bill Cardell) 9. 01:31 PM - Re: spar rivet size (Steve Russell) 10. 06:36 PM - CH601XL fuel caps - they stuck----- (xl) 11. 06:44 PM - Re: spar rivet size (Jon Croke) 12. 10:58 PM - removing "pulled" rivets (was "WING QUANDRY") (Jim Frisby) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:56 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: A Special Thank You - List of Contributors --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, This year's List Fund Raiser was pleasantly successful and I want to thank everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of these Lists! Below you will find the complete list of this year's Contributors. Its these great guys that make it all possible! All of the List members owe these special people a debt of gratitude. I would also like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) for again this year providing free and substantially discounted merchandise in support of the Fund Raiser. Andy is a great guy and I encourage you to check out his very nice web site. Thanks again, Andy!! For those of you that ordered gifts with your Contribution, I will be shipping these out over the next few weeks as the merchandise arrives and as I can get all of the orders processed. Its quite a job so I appreciate your patience! I hope to have everything on its way by the end of the month if not sooner. If you would still like to make a Contribution to support the Lists, please feel free to do so! If you'd like to receive one of the awesome free gifts, they will be available on the web page though the end of the month. The Contribution web page can be found here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Finally, I would like to once again sincerely thank each and everyone of you that took the time to make a Contribution to support the Lists this year! Your kind support greatly appreciated! THANK YOU! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ------------------- 2003 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- Adamson, Arden Akin, Thomas Alber, John Alexander, Don Alexander, George Allender, Pat Allison, Steven Amick, Michael Amundsen, Blair Anderson, Douglas Anderson, Edward Andrews, Myles Anthony, Bruce Applefeld, Gerald Aronson, David Aschliman, Jim Atkinson, Harold Austin, Peter Avant, David Ayers, Jim Babb, Tony Bahrns, Stan Bailey, Rick Baker, Gary Baker, James Baker, Owen Baker, Roger Bales, Robert Ballenger, Jim Balmer, G Banus, Mark Barnett, William Barrie, Darwin Barter, Thomas Basiliere, Richard Bataller, Gary Batte, W.Granville Bean, James Bean, Robert Beard, Harley Becker, Charles Bell, BruceB. Belted, Air Power, Ltd Benham, Dallas Benjamin, Hal Benson, Lonn Benson, Lonnie Berg, Wayne Bergeron, Daniel Bernard, William Berner, Walter Bernier, Jim Berry, Bruce Bertelli, John Bertrand, Carl Berube, Bob Bezzard, Richar Bidle, Jerry Bieberdorf, Roger Bish, Dan Blackwell, Charles Blake, Peter Blank, Steven Blomgren, Jack Bohannon, Larry Bond, Charles Bonsell, Edward Booze, Greg Borne, Chuck Bosomworth, David Boucher, Michel Boulet, Paul Bourne, Larry Bowen, Larry Bowhay, Eustace Brame, Charles Branstrom, Dan Brasch, Glenn Breckenridge, Bruce Brick, John Brogley, Michael Brooks, Chris Brooks, John Brooks, Ken Brooks, William Broomell, Glenn Brown, Gerald R. Bruce, L.B. Bruch, Stein Brunke, Judy Buchanan, Sam Buchmann, Kenneth Buess, Alfred Bullock, Jack Bumhoffer, Al Burke, James Burks, Terrell Burns, John Burton, Charlie Burton, James Burton, Ron Butcher, James Butcher, Ron Butler, Francis Butterfield, John Buyse, Lieven Calhoun, Ron Calloway, Terry Campbell, Greg Cann, Robert Cantrell, Jimmy Capen, Ralph Capra, Salvatore Cardell, William Carden, Richard CarillonSr., Paul Carney, William Carpenter, Kenneth Carr, David Carroll, Randy Carson, Rowland Carter, David Cary, William Challgren, Stanley Chambers, Ken Champ, Nicolas Chandler, Charles Chandler, John Ciolino, John Clark, James Clark, John Clarkson, Scott Clayton, James Cliff, John Cloud, Ralph Clyma, Frank Cochran, Jerry Coffey, John Coggins, Michael Cole, Gary Cole, Gerry Colley, Larry Colucci, Tony Combined, Merchants Combs, Doyle Comer, Dave Comfort, Gordon Compton, Scott Conaway, James Condrey, Bob Cone, James Connell, Joseph Conrad, Gerald Conti, Richard Cook, Craig Cooley, John Cooper, James Corbalis, Leo Corbette, Claude Corder, Michael Corner, Jim Cotter, Tim Cotton, David Cottrell, Larry Coulter, Carlin Coursey, William Courtney, Dean Courtney, James Couture, Wayne Cribb, William Croke, Jon Crook, Tracy Crosby, Harry Crosley, Richard Cruikshank, Bruce D'Onofrio, John Dalstrom, Douglas Dalton, Bob Daniel, Karie Danielsen, HansJurgen Darby, Frank Daudt, Larry Davenport, Jimmy Davidson, Adam And Janet Davidson, Jeff Davies, Brian Davis, Charles Davis, Chris Davis, Nathan Davis, Peter Davis, Terry Dawson , Clif Dawson, Garth DeJong, Jan Dearinger, William Decramer, Dick Deford, David Denham, Bob Dennis, Chris Derouchey, Bill Desmond, Richard Devaney, Bob Devere, Al Diehl, Don Diffenbaugh, Scott Disher, John Dixon, Thomas (Steve) Dominy, Ken Donaldson, Norman Doran, Thomas Dresden, Robert Driscoll, Patrick Dube, Bill Dudley, Richard Duffy, Russell Dukerich, Thomas Dumoret, Paul Eagleston, Ron Eckel, John Edwards, Garland Edwards, Joseph Eginton, William Eli, Robert Ellenberger, Mike Elliott, Andrew Ellison, Craig Enga, Wallace Engh, Duncan Enns, Dennis Erb, Bob Erickson, Alan Erickson, Gerald Erikson, Donald Ervin, Tom Erwin, Chip Esterhuizen, Deon Etherington, Al Evans, Walt Evenson, Roger Fackler, Ken Faris, Kevin Farmer, Daniel Fasching, John Feldmann, StephenW. Ferrer, Gabriel Finley, John Finley, Jon Fischer, Doug Fishe, JF Fisher, Dru Fisher, Michael Fisher, Tom Fitzpatrick, Robert Flamini, Dennis Flavin, John Fleck, Joe Foerster, James Fogerson, Richard Forrest, Gerald Fox, Byron Franz, Carl Frazier, Ford Frazier, Vince Friedland, Thomas Frizzell, Alex Frye, Dwight Fulgham, W.R. Fulmer, JosephA Fux, Franz Gagnon, Laurent Gagnon, Tim Galati, Rick Gallagher, Noel Galley, Cy Gantzer, Charles Gardner, Albert Gardner, Terrence Garner, Mitchell Gates, Leo Gawronski, Brian Gaylen Lerohl, Terminaltown Geldermann, Dan Genzlinger, Reade George, William Gerken, James German, Mark Gernetzke-hays, Jill Gherardini, Don Giacona, William Giddens, Gerald Gillespie, Dick Giusti, Roberto Glass, Roy Golden, Shane Gonzalez, Jorge Goode, Richard Goodings, John Goodman, David Goolsby, JamesE. Gordon, Keith Gott, Shelby Goudinoff, Peter Gowing, John Grabb, Gary Graber, Joel Graham, Gary Graham, Jim Graham, W.Doyce Grant, Jordan Grebe, David Green, Luther Green, Roger Greenough, Jim Gregory, Michael Griffin, Bill Griffin, James Griffin, Robert Grosse, John Gustafson, Aaron Haertlein, Frank Hagar, Steve Haley, Gary Hallsten, Keith Hamer, Steve Hamilton, William J Hand, Chris Hankins, Roger Hankinson, Jimmy Harbour, Keith Hardaway, Mike Harding, Joel Harmon, John Harrison, Nigel Hartwig, Richard Harvey, Dale Hasper, Jim Hatch, Pat Hatcher, Edmund Hatfield, Cecil Jr. Hauck, JohnR Haynes, Joel Heath, Donald Hefner, Jim Heindl, Karl Heitman, Christopher Helming, Larry Heritch, Ian Herminghaus, John Herren, Bill Hetrick, Dale Heykoop, John Hibbing, William Hill, Jeff Hill, Ken Hill, Stanley A Himes, Joe Hinrichsen, Jim Hodgson, Mark Hodgson, Robert Hoffman, Carl Hoffman, Curtis Hoffmann, Thomas Hohos, Charles Holifield, Steve Holland, Mike Holland, Rick Holmes, Tom Hood, Bill Hooper, Gerald Hooper, Randy Horton, Kevin Hostetler, Donald Howell, Pete Howerton, Bill Hubbard, Eugene Hudson, Jeff Hueltz, Wolfgang Huff, Scott Huft, John Hughes, Robert Hulen, Fred Humbert, Robert Humes, Hubert Humes, Hugh Humphrey, Roger Hunt, Peter Hunt, Wallace G Hurd, James Hurst, Kingsley Hutchison, Tom Hyde, David Ice, Michael Iddon, Richard Irvin, Robert Isler, Jerry Jackson, Kevin Jacobson, Marshall Jannakos, Gregory Jaussi, Curtis Jenkins, John Jensen, Jerry Jewell, James Johannsson, Johann G. John Allen Hurn, Hurns Aircraft Johnsen, Svein Johnson, Bruce Johnson, Dale Johnson, Dennis Johnson, Les Johnson, Murray Johnson, Robert Johnston, Stephen Jones, Eric Joosten, Craig Jordan, JR Joyce, David Jurotich, Matthew Kahn, Steve Kaluza, Charles Karmy, Andrew Kaser, Jim Kayner, Dennis Kellum, Mark Kempthorne, Hal Kent, John Kerr, John Kerr, Joseph Kesterton, Donald Kilburg, Larry Killion, Clay Kimsey, Thomas Kinney, Kevin Kirby, Graham Kirk, Tony Knepper, Harold Knoll, Lynn Kohn, Carl Koonce, R.L. Kosta, Michael Kottke, Dwight Kovac, Harold Kramer, Ed Krasinski, Jerzy Krok, Peter Krueger, Grant Kunkel, Fred Kuntz, Paul Kyle, Fergus Lahey, Jim Laird, Dave Laishes, Jeff Lally, Sean Lalonde, Bart Landucci, Larry Lannon, W. Lasecki, Robert Laurie, Kip Laverty, Charles Lavigne, Pat Lawliss, James Lawrence, Derek Lawton, John Ledbetter, Gene Ledoux, Paul Lee, Terrence Lefler, Fabian Lekven, Carl Lemen, Ted Lenton, Dennis Leonard, Nicolas Leslie, George Lewis, Terry Lewis, Tim Licking, Larry Lifer, Craig Liming, Gary Linebaugh, Jeff Linse, Michael Lloyd, Brian Long, Charles Long, Eugene Long, Patrick Loubert, Gary Mack, Don Mackay, Alex Madden, Peter Magsam, Del Mahr, Egon Mains, Ralph Malich, Gunter Markle, Jim Markwell, Cleone Marshall, F.R. Marshall, Nigel Marson, Thomas Martin, Bryan Martin, Clifford Martin, Richard Mason, Ron Matteson, Robert Maxson, Phillip Maynor, Troy Mcallister, Paul Mcbride, Duncan Mccallister, Donald Mccallum, Bob Mccutchan, Bruce Mcfarland, Larry Mcfarland, Randy Mcfarlane, Lloyd Mcgregor, Bruce Mcintosh, Wayne Mcintyre, Jay Mckervey, Joseph Mcleod, Neil Mcmanus, Jim Medeiros, Joel Meehan, Don Mekeel, DonaldE Melenyzer, Charles IV Merchant, Dean Merrill, Dj Messinger, Paul Meyette, Brian Michel, Riazuelo Miller, David Miller, Mark Miller, Robert Miller, Warren Mills, Moe Mills, William Milner, Gregory Milner, Red Mineart, Stephen Mitchell, HD Moak, Ken Montagne, Raymond Montgomery, Dale Moore, David Moore, Glenn Moore, Marbert Moore, Warren Morawski, Brett Morelli, William Morin, Mauri Morrison, Douglas Morrison, Malcolm Morrow, Dan Mosher, Doc Mosier, Colby Mrotzek, Dan Muegge, James Murphy, George Murray, Ronald Murrill, Robert Myers, John Myhra, Donald Nascimento, Marcio Nash, Simon Neilsen, Richard Nelson, William Nicely, Vincent Nickless, Jim Nickson, Dennis Nolan, Jim North, Wheeler Noyer, Robert Nyman, Stephen O'Brien, Dan O'Donnell, David O'Reilly, Colm Oberst, James Oconnor, Edward Ohlinger, Judith Ohlinger, Mark & Judy Okeefe, Lawrence Oldford, David Olendorf, James Orear, Jeff Otaola, Ricardo Ouellette, Will Overall, Dana Owens, Duane Owens, Phil Packard, Tom Parker, Dennis Parks, Dann Partyka, LeeM Patsey, Kevin Patterson, Ron Payne, Craig Payne, Ron Pelletier, Dave Perez, M. Domenic Perkins, Stan Perry, John Petaccia, Ettore Peterson, Alex Peterson, David Peterson, Paul Petri, David Pettey, Don Petty, Paul Pflimlin, Paul Pfundt, Jan Phillips, Mark Phillips, Russell Pierce, Tony Pike, Richard Pilling, Kevin Pinkston, Gordon Plecenik, Michael Pocock, Graham Point, Jeff Porter, Richard Potter, Lee Powell, Jim Powell, Ken Preston, Douglas Pritchard, Roger Proctor, Joe Puckett, Greg Puglise, James Rabaut, Charles Raby, Ron Randolph, George Ray, Rick Ray, Rob Reading, Thomas Sr Red Dragon Aviation Reeck, Kris And Art Reel, David Reese, Wayne Reeves, William Reimer, Curt Render, James Repucci, William Reuschle, Jeffrey Reusser, Hans-Peter Reynolds, Richard Rice, James Richards, Stephen Richardson, Colin Richardson, Scott Richter, Randall Rickard, Ian Rickman, Loy Rigby, David Riley, Stuart Ringrose, Andrew Robert, Nuckolls Roberts, Gary Roberts, Jeffrey Roberts, John Rodebush, James Rodriguez, Paul Roehr, Mike Romine, Chris Ross, Chris Ross, William Rourke, John Rozendaal, Doug Russell, E.Frank Russell, Jack Russell, Keith Ryan, Mike Sa, Carlos Saffold, Michael Sager, Truman Salter, Phillip Sanders, Andrew Sapp, Doug Sargent, Thomas Satterlee, Robert Sax, Samuel Schaefer, Steven Schertz, William Schieber, Cedrdic Schilling, Karl Schlafly, Fred Schlatterer, Bill Schmidt, Gregory Schmidt, John & Patty Schneider, Werner Schnitzlein, C.E. Schoenberger, H.Robert Schrimmer, Mark Schroeder, Fire Schroeder, John Schumacher, Roger Scott, James Scott, Troy Scroggs, Ross Seaford, Jack Seal, John Selby, Jim, Sr. & Jr. Selinger, Carsten Selix, Richard Setser, David Settlemyer, Art Shank, William Shaw, Cliff Shepherd, Dallas Shepherd, Stanislaus Shipley, Rob Shipley, Walt Shipp, Garry Shumaker, Robert Siegfried, Bob Sigmon, Harvey Silvanic, Ed Simmons, Kendall Simpkins, Shaun Simpson, Randy Sinclair, Michael Sipp, Richard Skelly, Brian Sletten, Mark Sloan, Alex Smith, Danny L Smith, David Smith, Edmond Smith, Gene Smith, Kirk Smith, Lloyd Smith, Rodney Smith, Ronald Smith, Simon Snedaker, Robert Sobel, Martin Solecki, John Sorensen, Kent Sorensen, Lance Spainhower, Craig Sparks, Timothy Spence, Stephen Spencer, Russell Springer, Jerry Staley, Dick Starn, John H. "kabong" Stewart, Michael Stewart, Paul Stewart, Shannon Stone, Christopher Stout, Randall Strawn, David Strong, Gary Strong, Tom Stuart, Clay Sutterfield, Stan Swaney, Mark Swanson, Ronald Swartzendruber, David Sweeney, Timothy Swinford, George Szantho, JohnB. Szarafinski, Roy Szentmiklosi, Mark Tarmar, Brian Tasker, Richard Textor, Jack Thesee, Gilles Thomas, Bruce Thomas, Gummo Thomas, Lee Thomason, Michael Thompson, Scott Thomure, Randall Thwing, Randy Titcomb, Edward Tomlin, Thomas Tower, John Tracy, Roger Trainer, Dave Trombley, Erich Trost, Sebastian Trumpfheller, Bob Tuton, Beauford Twigg, Alan Tyler, George Unruh, Brian Unternaehrer, Rolf Utter, Bob Van Winkle, Dean VanHeeswijk, Jack VanHeuveln, Lemar VanSchoonhoven, Peter Vanartsdalen, Scott Vandenbroek, Martin Vangrunsven, Stan Vaughan, Cye Vaughn, John Verdev, Victor Vervoort-Woestenburg, Jef Vincent, Bill Vogt, Gary VonRuden, Dennis Vormbaum, John Voss, Richard Vranken, Karel Wagoner, Richard Waldal, Art B. Walker, Dale Walker, Tommy Walker, Weston Walrath, Howard Walsh, Denis Ward, Timothy Washburn, Oliver Watson, Richard Watson, Terrence Watters, Daniel Weaver, Erich Weaver, Fred Webb, Randol Weber, Edward Webster, Tom Weese, Brian Weiler, Douglas Whelan, Thomas Whiteley, Kenneth Whiteside, Eric Whittier, Lavoy (aka Bucky) Wigney, John Wiley, Robert Williams , John Williams, Hildred Williams, Jeff Williams, Lawrence Williams, Terry Williamson, John Willig, Louis Wilson, Christopher Wilson, Kelly Wimmer, Thomas Wingard, David Winings, James Winne, Edward Woboril, David Wood, Frank Wood, Larry Woods, Donald Woods, Harold Wright, Roy Wsiaki, Michael Wymer, Jerry Yager, Jack Yamokoski, William Young, Rollin Zaric, Radomir Zheng, Andrew Zilik, Gary Zinkham, Ralph Zollinger, Duane Zuniga, Oscar ------------------- 2003 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions From: caspainhower@aep.com 12/04/2003 09:42:34 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >Should I run it down pvc pipe? Or do I need to be drilling rivets? Journals I've looked at have the wiring and tubing running through nice grommets and clips, etc. Bill, There are probably a lot of totally acceptable ways to run the wiring without opening up the wing, but how confident are you with what's underneath. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take that long to drill out all the rivets from the top skin and re-rivet it. It might be worth the piece of mind. Craig S. 601XL 0-235 tail done, wings 75% Do not archive. This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:17 AM PST US From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: Zenith-List: wings: wires and what's inside --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" There are all kinds of small video cameras that can show you what's inside, without drilling out rivets and opening a perfectly constructed wing. If you see something inside you don't like then open it up. The cameras can even serve double duty and document the construction progress with digital photos. Photographic records are becoming the norm for many examiners and digital photos don't require a lot of expensive film and developing costs. I have 500 + photos taken during my construction and I bet others have even more. Check with your local EAA chapter for a loaner or assistance from another member. I plan to use one for my annual inspections too! Dave Bill, There are probably a lot of totally acceptable ways to run the wiring without opening up the wing, but how confident are you with what's underneath. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take that long to drill out all the rivets from the top skin and re-rivet it. It might be worth the piece of mind. Craig ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:42 AM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Thanks to Kevin and everyone else that responded. With respect to the wing tanks that Tom asked about, these are the ones that go in the storage lockers, not the leading edge, so no plans to open for those. Next question, if I do decide to drill out rivets, does it tend to enlarge the holes/do the rivets spin while you drill? IOW, will I end up having to go up a size? Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: kkinney@fuse.net [mailto:kkinney@fuse.net] Subject: Wing quandry >Is it safe to just put the wiring in that black plastic sleeving and drop it >through the rib cut-outs? Should I run it down pvc pipe? Or do I need to be >drilling rivets? Journals I've looked at have the wiring and tubing running >through nice grommets and clips, etc. Hello Bill, it sounds like you're in a tough spot. Laying the wiring loose, even with the tubing or PVC is still going to rattle around & chafe. Since you don't want to open the wing, I do know of a technique that Chris recommends that will reduce (but not eliminate) the rattle/chafe problem. Chris solved the problem by using to cable ties at each rib. 1) Drill a holes big enough for the cable tie at 10:30 & 4:30 respective to the lightening hole. (There is a minimum clearance distance published somewhere...) 2) Deburr (and grommet if you want) 3) Run a cable tie through the small (grommeted) hole and through the lightening hole. 4) For the second cable tie, run it through the first cable tie and through the second hole. This way the two cable ties interlink roughly in the middle of the lightening hole. 5) Run your tubing through the intersection of the two cable ties. I'm glad I'm not in your position. If I were, I'd probably like to see the workmanship on the inside of the wing anyway. Best of luck, Kevin Kinney ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry From: caspainhower@aep.com 12/04/2003 02:24:13 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >Thanks to Kevin and everyone else that responded. With respect to the wing tanks that Tom asked about, these are the ones that go in the storage lockers, not the leading edge, so no plans to open for those. Next question, if I do decide to drill out rivets, does it tend to enlarge the holes/do the rivets spin while you drill? IOW, will I end up having to go up a size? Bill, When I drilled out the rivets I used the same size bit used to drill the original holes. Drill until the rivet head comes off and the remaining portion should easily pop out the backside. Sometimes you have to do a little extra drilling but not usually. I re-riveted with the same size rivets with no appreciable enlargement of the hole. At the ZAC workshop that is one of the first things they show you. Use a good bit and keep the drill straight. Be sure to support the wing using the spacers shown in the prints so the last few rivets won't stress the holes. Craig S. 601XL This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:35 PM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Well, I guess one question might be-does anybody remember George Warner? I bought the plane from his widow, maybe somebody on the list has seen it? Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: caspainhower@aep.com [mailto:caspainhower@aep.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >Should I run it down pvc pipe? Or do I need to be drilling rivets? Journals I've looked at have the wiring and tubing running through nice grommets and clips, etc. Bill, There are probably a lot of totally acceptable ways to run the wiring without opening up the wing, but how confident are you with what's underneath. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take that long to drill out all the rivets from the top skin and re-rivet it. It might be worth the piece of mind. Craig S. 601XL 0-235 tail done, wings 75% Do not archive. This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:43 PM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Nope...I have unzipped one LE skin twice...once to install the tanks...and a second time to fix a leak. To fix the leak I left the wing on the plane and because I have piano hinges, pulled out the hinge pin and strapped a 2*4 (with a slot cut in it to clear the hinge) to the rear spar. Use the nose skin straps in the normal way. Pilot drill the holes first with a 3/32nd drill...This is viatally important as the 1/8th drill will wander other wise. Then carefully with the 1/8th, drill slowly with the battery drill until the head just snaps off without even touching the skin. Sounds difficult but it is very easy provided you pilot drill the heads first. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of caspainhower@aep.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >Thanks to Kevin and everyone else that responded. With respect to the >wing tanks that Tom asked about, these are the ones that go in the storage lockers, not the leading edge, so no plans to open for those. Next question, if I do decide to drill out rivets, does it tend to enlarge the holes/do the rivets spin while you drill? IOW, will I end up having to go up a size? Bill, When I drilled out the rivets I used the same size bit used to drill the original holes. Drill until the rivet head comes off and the remaining portion should easily pop out the backside. Sometimes you have to do a little extra drilling but not usually. I re-riveted with the same size rivets with no appreciable enlargement of the hole. At the ZAC workshop that is one of the first things they show you. Use a good bit and keep the drill straight. Be sure to support the wing using the spacers shown in the prints so the last few rivets won't stress the holes. Craig S. 601XL This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:40 PM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Thanks, Craig! Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: caspainhower@aep.com [mailto:caspainhower@aep.com] Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >Thanks to Kevin and everyone else that responded. With respect to the wing tanks that Tom asked about, these are the ones that go in the storage lockers, not the leading edge, so no plans to open for those. Next question, if I do decide to drill out rivets, does it tend to enlarge the holes/do the rivets spin while you drill? IOW, will I end up having to go up a size? Bill, When I drilled out the rivets I used the same size bit used to drill the original holes. Drill until the rivet head comes off and the remaining portion should easily pop out the backside. Sometimes you have to do a little extra drilling but not usually. I re-riveted with the same size rivets with no appreciable enlargement of the hole. At the ZAC workshop that is one of the first things they show you. Use a good bit and keep the drill straight. Be sure to support the wing using the spacers shown in the prints so the last few rivets won't stress the holes. Craig S. 601XL This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:51 PM PST US From: "Steve Russell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: spar rivet size --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Russell" This is my first time to write. I'm gathering the parts, tools, etc. to scratch build the spars for my 701. I'm going with the .125 extrusion L's vs. the .93. The plans call for rivet size to beA N-470-AD-5-6 to tie the spar cap to the web. Since I'm going with a larger size extrusion material is this the right size of rivet to use? Thanks ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:41 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Zenith-List: CH601XL fuel caps - they stuck----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl I put fuel in N633Z for the first time today, fired it up and taxied. I did have a problem with the fuel caps - came with the kit. We thought they were locked - I never locked them. It's easier to drain the fuel for the bottom if you want it..... The caps came on and off fine before. But this time it was on the ramp and 40 degrees. The metal fuel tank opening shrunk and held the plastic caps in very tightly. We could barely get the caps out with generous application of oil and knocking them from side to side (not good). We filed the sides down (above the o ring) and now they come in and out fine. Joe ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:46 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: spar rivet size --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Steve, I just completed my spars and used the same oversized extrusions. I went to the next size up (AD5-7) in order to satisfy the formula for length (not on the top of my head at the moment). It all came out fine! Jon N701US > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Russell" > > This is my first time to write. I'm gathering the parts, tools, etc. to scratch build the spars for my 701. I'm going with the .125 extrusion L's vs. the .93. The plans call for rivet size to beA N-470-AD-5-6 to tie the spar cap to the web. Since I'm going with a larger size extrusion material is this the right size of rivet to use? > Thanks > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:47 PM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Zenith-List: removing "pulled" rivets (was "WING QUANDRY") --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" When removing #4 rivets, I drill with a #40 drill, down to the stub of the mandrel, then I put another#40 drill bit blunt end first into the hole, just below the thickness of the first layer of skin, then I tip the bit back and forth sideways, this causes the head to break of below the surface, the skins will seperate easily. If they don't, you can tap the remainder of the rivet out with an old mandrel, leaves the hole untouched. For #5 rivets, I use a #30 drill. Beware when removing rivets, the other end of the rivet may fall down into the structure, if it rolls under a wing tank or something where you can't get at it, it can cause trouble in the future, after vibration and wear. Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year six months