---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/05/03: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:23 AM - Re: The first of many dumb questions (Scott Laughlin) 2. 06:57 AM - Re: CH601XL fuel caps - they stuck----- (Jack Russell) 3. 07:01 AM - Re: The first of many dumb questions (Dave Alberti) 4. 12:45 PM - Re: The first of many dumb questions (RUSSELL JOHNSON) 5. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: First flight (Chuck Deiterich) 6. 02:13 PM - Re: The first of many dumb questions (Scott Laughlin) 7. 03:23 PM - Re: Jabiru 2200 alternator (Chuck Deiterich) 8. 03:55 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/04/03 (Thomas F Marson) 9. 05:59 PM - making figerglass cowling (Tim & Diane Shankland) 10. 08:27 PM - Re: making figerglass cowling (Cy Galley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:44 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" PVC seems to be a good solution until you consider the fire hazard. I installed some plastic (not PVC) tubing in a vehicle project a while back as conduit for the rear tail lights. It caught fire in the middle and burned in both directions. It seemed like a good idea when I installed it, but it proved to be a costly mistake. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" If your going to put the wing tanks in arent you going to have to open the wing anyway, would that expose enough for the wiring? I think given what you say I would consider putting some light weight pvc in for a duct to run the wiring. tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Cardell" Subject: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell > > Hi gang, > I'm still in the "circling around it" mode, trying to figure where the last > owner of my 601hd left off building. Unfortunately, previous owner died and > I can't ask him any questions. First question I have is this: in looking at > other people's websites, etc, it looks like people did the wiring and > plumbing before closing the wings up. The plane I bought has the wings > already closed and has the optional wing tanks (not installed), but no > wiring has been run for strobes, etc. Is it safe to just put the wiring in > that black plastic sleeving and drop it through the rib cut-outs? Should I > run it down pvc pipe? Or do I need to be drilling rivets? Journals I've > looked at have the wiring and tubing running through nice grommets and > clips, etc. > > Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) > Flyin' Miata > www.flyinmiata.com > www.fmprotege.com > 970-242-3800 > > Browse styles for all ages, from the latest looks to cozy weekend wear at MSN Shopping. And check out the beauty products! http://shopping.msn.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:22 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601XL fuel caps - they stuck----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Had the same problem when I was just test fitting the caps in the tank. One cap slipped in fine but was a B#$%$ to get out. Same solution of filing. Jack do not archive xl wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl I put fuel in N633Z for the first time today, fired it up and taxied. I did have a problem with the fuel caps - came with the kit. We thought they were locked - I never locked them. It's easier to drain the fuel for the bottom if you want it..... The caps came on and off fine before. But this time it was on the ramp and 40 degrees. The metal fuel tank opening shrunk and held the plastic caps in very tightly. We could barely get the caps out with generous application of oil and knocking them from side to side (not good). We filed the sides down (above the o ring) and now they come in and out fine. Joe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:27 AM PST US From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" If you build your aircraft with wire that burns, or so poorly fused or circuit protected that an electrical short starts PVC on fire you have a big problem. But, if the gas tank in your wing starts a fire that burns the PVC, that's NO PROBLEM, because in seconds your wing will fall off! :) do not archive Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Laughlin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" PVC seems to be a good solution until you consider the fire hazard. I installed some plastic (not PVC) tubing in a vehicle project a while back as conduit for the rear tail lights. It caught fire in the middle and burned in both directions. It seemed like a good idea when I installed it, but it proved to be a costly mistake. If your going to put the wing tanks in arent you going to have to open the wing anyway, would that expose enough for the wiring? I think given what you say I would consider putting some light weight pvc in for a duct to run the wiring. tom ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:34 PM PST US From: "RUSSELL JOHNSON" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "RUSSELL JOHNSON" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" > > PVC seems to be a good solution until you consider the fire hazard. I > installed some plastic (not PVC) tubing in a vehicle project a while back as > conduit for the rear tail lights. It caught fire in the middle and burned > in both directions. It seemed like a good idea when I installed it, but it > proved to be a costly mistake. +++++++++++++++ Seriously doubt that you can get PVC to burn. While cleaning up the farm shop awhile back, I had about 100' of the stuff to dispose of. When I put it in a bonfire, it would only melt, and only burn when there was an outside source of flame to support combustion. The main ingredient in PVC pipe is calcium carbonate, with pvc (polyvinyl chloride) being the binder. R. Johnson Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:49 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Dave, The Aero flash power supplies are small enough to get out through the 701 fiber glass wing tip hole. See my web site under airplanes/strobes for pix of my installation. http://members.thegateway.net/cfd/Strobe.html Chuck D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First flight > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com > > Tony >If you get a chance, could you measure your strobe power > supply? I guess I'll put access panels in my wings while the plane is down. I > would recommend having a look at my plane as you build yours because there are > some things that are easier to address as your building. > Dave > 678-464-8227 c. > 253-846-6356 h. > Hanger #50 Thun field ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:22 PM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Russell: That's the input I was looking for. The stuff that burned on my vehicle was not PVC and it burned fast. Thin wall PVC would be a good option if this is the case. Thanks! Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "RUSSELL JOHNSON" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "RUSSELL JOHNSON" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" > > PVC seems to be a good solution until you consider the fire hazard. I > installed some plastic (not PVC) tubing in a vehicle project a while back as > conduit for the rear tail lights. It caught fire in the middle and burned > in both directions. It seemed like a good idea when I installed it, but it > proved to be a costly mistake. +++++++++++++++ Seriously doubt that you can get PVC to burn. While cleaning up the farm shop awhile back, I had about 100' of the stuff to dispose of. When I put it in a bonfire, it would only melt, and only burn when there was an outside source of flame to support combustion. The main ingredient in PVC pipe is calcium carbonate, with pvc (polyvinyl chloride) being the binder. R. Johnson Do not archive Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:17 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru 2200 alternator --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Bob, Here are the data, (12VDC battery, engine off.): Item Garmin 250XL .89a (3.2a transmitting) and Intercom Nav lites 2.3a (The tail lamp pulls 1.75a with 14 VDC, I intend to modify a high intensity LED and save an amp or more, wingtip nav lamps pull about .6a each) Strobes 4a (hard to get as the current varies) Instruments .41a (VDO - fuel gages, oil temp, oil press, volts, tach) Panel lites 1.29a Turn&bank .25a Trim indicator .064 Total 9.184amps The strobes are hard to measure as the current varies, 4amps was the max I saw so actual will be less. Both strobes are dual flash and are part of the combined Nav/Strob that ZAC sells. With 14 VDC there may be some increase in amps. Flying during day saves nav and panel lites or about 3.5 amps. I measured the current out of the alternator and the regulator kept the current below 10 amps even after just starting the engine. If I ever have to work on the strobe power supplies, I may try to convert them to single flash. They should be brighter that way and pull less current. Areoflash data shows the single flash pulls less current. Starter solenoid pulls 3.4a. Chuck D. N701TX > Bob, > I measured the current from each component, and can send you the data if > you wish. > Chuck ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:00 PM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/04/03 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" A small lightweight (thinwall) pvc tube of what ever diameter you wish could be inserted all the way into the wing thru rib lightening holes. Then make a bracket that will secure the pvc tube to the bottom of the inboard lightenig hole and pop rivet the bracket to the rib. Figure how to do the same at the outboard (tip rib. then insert your wires. Should be not too hard to do. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zenith-List Digest Server" Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/04/03 > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be found in either > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII > version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2003-12-04.ht ml > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2003-12-04.tx t > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > Zenith-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 12/04/03: 12 > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:16 AM - A Special Thank You - List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: The first of many dumb questions (caspainhower@aep.com) > 3. 07:18 AM - wings: wires and what's inside (Dave Alberti) > 4. 09:47 AM - Re: Wing quandry (Bill Cardell) > 5. 11:24 AM - Re: Re: Wing quandry (caspainhower@aep.com) > 6. 12:04 PM - Re: The first of many dumb questions (Bill Cardell) > 7. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Wing quandry (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) > 8. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Wing quandry (Bill Cardell) > 9. 01:31 PM - Re: spar rivet size (Steve Russell) > 10. 06:36 PM - CH601XL fuel caps - they stuck----- (xl) > 11. 06:44 PM - Re: spar rivet size (Jon Croke) > 12. 10:58 PM - removing "pulled" rivets (was "WING QUANDRY") (Jim Frisby) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:16:56 AM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: Zenith-List: A Special Thank You - List of Contributors > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > Dear Listers, > > This year's List Fund Raiser was pleasantly successful and I want to thank > everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the continued > operation and upgrade of these Lists! Below you will find the complete > list of this year's Contributors. Its these great guys that make it all > possible! All of the List members owe these special people a debt of > gratitude. > > I would also like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder Bookstore ( > http://www.buildersbooks.com ) for again this year providing free and > substantially discounted merchandise in support of the Fund Raiser. Andy > is a great guy and I encourage you to check out his very nice web > site. Thanks again, Andy!! > > For those of you that ordered gifts with your Contribution, I will be > shipping these out over the next few weeks as the merchandise arrives and > as I can get all of the orders processed. Its quite a job so I appreciate > your patience! I hope to have everything on its way by the end of the > month if not sooner. > > If you would still like to make a Contribution to support the Lists, please > feel free to do so! If you'd like to receive one of the awesome free > gifts, they will be available on the web page though the end of the > month. The Contribution web page can be found here: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Finally, I would like to once again sincerely thank each and everyone of > you that took the time to make a Contribution to support the Lists this > year! Your kind support greatly appreciated! > > THANK YOU! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ------------------- 2003 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- > Adamson, Arden > Akin, Thomas > Alber, John > Alexander, Don > Alexander, George > Allender, Pat > Allison, Steven > Amick, Michael > Amundsen, Blair > Anderson, Douglas > Anderson, Edward > Andrews, Myles > Anthony, Bruce > Applefeld, Gerald > Aronson, David > Aschliman, Jim > Atkinson, Harold > Austin, Peter > Avant, David > Ayers, Jim > Babb, Tony > Bahrns, Stan > Bailey, Rick > Baker, Gary > Baker, James > Baker, Owen > Baker, Roger > Bales, Robert > Ballenger, Jim > Balmer, G > Banus, Mark > Barnett, William > Barrie, Darwin > Barter, Thomas > Basiliere, Richard > Bataller, Gary > Batte, W.Granville > Bean, James > Bean, Robert > Beard, Harley > Becker, Charles > Bell, BruceB. > Belted, Air Power, Ltd > Benham, Dallas > Benjamin, Hal > Benson, Lonn > Benson, Lonnie > Berg, Wayne > Bergeron, Daniel > Bernard, William > Berner, Walter > Bernier, Jim > Berry, Bruce > Bertelli, John > Bertrand, Carl > Berube, Bob > Bezzard, Richar > Bidle, Jerry > Bieberdorf, Roger > Bish, Dan > Blackwell, Charles > Blake, Peter > Blank, Steven > Blomgren, Jack > Bohannon, Larry > Bond, Charles > Bonsell, Edward > Booze, Greg > Borne, Chuck > Bosomworth, David > Boucher, Michel > Boulet, Paul > Bourne, Larry > Bowen, Larry > Bowhay, Eustace > Brame, Charles > Branstrom, Dan > Brasch, Glenn > Breckenridge, Bruce > Brick, John > Brogley, Michael > Brooks, Chris > Brooks, John > Brooks, Ken > Brooks, William > Broomell, Glenn > Brown, Gerald R. > Bruce, L.B. > Bruch, Stein > Brunke, Judy > Buchanan, Sam > Buchmann, Kenneth > Buess, Alfred > Bullock, Jack > Bumhoffer, Al > Burke, James > Burks, Terrell > Burns, John > Burton, Charlie > Burton, James > Burton, Ron > Butcher, James > Butcher, Ron > Butler, Francis > Butterfield, John > Buyse, Lieven > Calhoun, Ron > Calloway, Terry > Campbell, Greg > Cann, Robert > Cantrell, Jimmy > Capen, Ralph > Capra, Salvatore > Cardell, William > Carden, Richard > CarillonSr., Paul > Carney, William > Carpenter, Kenneth > Carr, David > Carroll, Randy > Carson, Rowland > Carter, David > Cary, William > Challgren, Stanley > Chambers, Ken > Champ, Nicolas > Chandler, Charles > Chandler, John > Ciolino, John > Clark, James > Clark, John > Clarkson, Scott > Clayton, James > Cliff, John > Cloud, Ralph > Clyma, Frank > Cochran, Jerry > Coffey, John > Coggins, Michael > Cole, Gary > Cole, Gerry > Colley, Larry > Colucci, Tony > Combined, Merchants > Combs, Doyle > Comer, Dave > Comfort, Gordon > Compton, Scott > Conaway, James > Condrey, Bob > Cone, James > Connell, Joseph > Conrad, Gerald > Conti, Richard > Cook, Craig > Cooley, John > Cooper, James > Corbalis, Leo > Corbette, Claude > Corder, Michael > Corner, Jim > Cotter, Tim > Cotton, David > Cottrell, Larry > Coulter, Carlin > Coursey, William > Courtney, Dean > Courtney, James > Couture, Wayne > Cribb, William > Croke, Jon > Crook, Tracy > Crosby, Harry > Crosley, Richard > Cruikshank, Bruce > D'Onofrio, John > Dalstrom, Douglas > Dalton, Bob > Daniel, Karie > Danielsen, HansJurgen > Darby, Frank > Daudt, Larry > Davenport, Jimmy > Davidson, Adam And Janet > Davidson, Jeff > Davies, Brian > Davis, Charles > Davis, Chris > Davis, Nathan > Davis, Peter > Davis, Terry > Dawson , Clif > Dawson, Garth > DeJong, Jan > Dearinger, William > Decramer, Dick > Deford, David > Denham, Bob > Dennis, Chris > Derouchey, Bill > Desmond, Richard > Devaney, Bob > Devere, Al > Diehl, Don > Diffenbaugh, Scott > Disher, John > Dixon, Thomas (Steve) > Dominy, Ken > Donaldson, Norman > Doran, Thomas > Dresden, Robert > Driscoll, Patrick > Dube, Bill > Dudley, Richard > Duffy, Russell > Dukerich, Thomas > Dumoret, Paul > Eagleston, Ron > Eckel, John > Edwards, Garland > Edwards, Joseph > Eginton, William > Eli, Robert > Ellenberger, Mike > Elliott, Andrew > Ellison, Craig > Enga, Wallace > Engh, 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Dale > Johnson, Dennis > Johnson, Les > Johnson, Murray > Johnson, Robert > Johnston, Stephen > Jones, Eric > Joosten, Craig > Jordan, JR > Joyce, David > Jurotich, Matthew > Kahn, Steve > Kaluza, Charles > Karmy, Andrew > Kaser, Jim > Kayner, Dennis > Kellum, Mark > Kempthorne, Hal > Kent, John > Kerr, John > Kerr, Joseph > Kesterton, Donald > Kilburg, Larry > Killion, Clay > Kimsey, Thomas > Kinney, Kevin > Kirby, Graham > Kirk, Tony > Knepper, Harold > Knoll, Lynn > Kohn, Carl > Koonce, R.L. > Kosta, Michael > Kottke, Dwight > Kovac, Harold > Kramer, Ed > Krasinski, Jerzy > Krok, Peter > Krueger, Grant > Kunkel, Fred > Kuntz, Paul > Kyle, Fergus > Lahey, Jim > Laird, Dave > Laishes, Jeff > Lally, Sean > Lalonde, Bart > Landucci, Larry > Lannon, W. > Lasecki, Robert > Laurie, Kip > Laverty, Charles > Lavigne, Pat > Lawliss, James > Lawrence, Derek > Lawton, John > Ledbetter, Gene > Ledoux, Paul > Lee, Terrence > Lefler, Fabian > Lekven, Carl > Lemen, Ted > Lenton, Dennis > Leonard, 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Patterson, Ron > Payne, Craig > Payne, Ron > Pelletier, Dave > Perez, M. Domenic > Perkins, Stan > Perry, John > Petaccia, Ettore > Peterson, Alex > Peterson, David > Peterson, Paul > Petri, David > Pettey, Don > Petty, Paul > Pflimlin, Paul > Pfundt, Jan > Phillips, Mark > Phillips, Russell > Pierce, Tony > Pike, Richard > Pilling, Kevin > Pinkston, Gordon > Plecenik, Michael > Pocock, Graham > Point, Jeff > Porter, Richard > Potter, Lee > Powell, Jim > Powell, Ken > Preston, Douglas > Pritchard, Roger > Proctor, Joe > Puckett, Greg > Puglise, James > Rabaut, Charles > Raby, Ron > Randolph, George > Ray, Rick > Ray, Rob > Reading, Thomas Sr > Red Dragon Aviation > Reeck, Kris And Art > Reel, David > Reese, Wayne > Reeves, William > Reimer, Curt > Render, James > Repucci, William > Reuschle, Jeffrey > Reusser, Hans-Peter > Reynolds, Richard > Rice, James > Richards, Stephen > Richardson, Colin > Richardson, Scott > Richter, Randall > Rickard, Ian > Rickman, Loy > Rigby, David > Riley, Stuart > Ringrose, Andrew > Robert, Nuckolls > Roberts, Gary > Roberts, Jeffrey > Roberts, John > Rodebush, James > Rodriguez, Paul > Roehr, Mike > Romine, Chris > Ross, Chris > Ross, William > Rourke, John > Rozendaal, Doug > Russell, E.Frank > Russell, Jack > Russell, Keith > Ryan, Mike > Sa, Carlos > Saffold, Michael > Sager, Truman > Salter, Phillip > Sanders, Andrew > Sapp, Doug > Sargent, Thomas > Satterlee, Robert > Sax, Samuel > Schaefer, Steven > Schertz, William > Schieber, Cedrdic > Schilling, Karl > Schlafly, Fred > Schlatterer, Bill > Schmidt, Gregory > Schmidt, John & Patty > Schneider, Werner > Schnitzlein, C.E. > Schoenberger, H.Robert > Schrimmer, Mark > Schroeder, Fire > Schroeder, John > Schumacher, Roger > Scott, James > Scott, Troy > Scroggs, Ross > Seaford, Jack > Seal, John > Selby, Jim, Sr. & Jr. > Selinger, Carsten > Selix, Richard > Setser, David > Settlemyer, Art > Shank, William > Shaw, Cliff > Shepherd, Dallas > Shepherd, Stanislaus > Shipley, Rob > Shipley, Walt > Shipp, Garry > Shumaker, Robert > Siegfried, Bob > Sigmon, Harvey > Silvanic, Ed > Simmons, Kendall > Simpkins, Shaun > Simpson, Randy > Sinclair, Michael > Sipp, Richard > Skelly, Brian > Sletten, Mark > Sloan, Alex > Smith, Danny L > Smith, David > Smith, Edmond > Smith, Gene > Smith, Kirk > Smith, Lloyd > Smith, Rodney > Smith, Ronald > Smith, Simon > Snedaker, Robert > Sobel, Martin > Solecki, John > Sorensen, Kent > Sorensen, Lance > Spainhower, Craig > Sparks, Timothy > Spence, Stephen > Spencer, Russell > Springer, Jerry > Staley, Dick > Starn, John H. "kabong" > Stewart, Michael > Stewart, Paul > Stewart, Shannon > Stone, Christopher > Stout, Randall > Strawn, David > Strong, Gary > Strong, Tom > Stuart, Clay > Sutterfield, Stan > Swaney, Mark > Swanson, Ronald > Swartzendruber, David > Sweeney, Timothy > Swinford, George > Szantho, JohnB. > Szarafinski, Roy > Szentmiklosi, Mark > Tarmar, Brian > Tasker, Richard > Textor, Jack > Thesee, Gilles > Thomas, Bruce > Thomas, Gummo > Thomas, Lee > Thomason, Michael > Thompson, Scott > Thomure, Randall > Thwing, Randy > Titcomb, Edward > Tomlin, Thomas > Tower, John > Tracy, Roger > Trainer, Dave > Trombley, Erich > Trost, Sebastian > Trumpfheller, Bob > Tuton, Beauford > Twigg, Alan > Tyler, George > Unruh, Brian > Unternaehrer, Rolf > Utter, Bob > Van Winkle, Dean > VanHeeswijk, Jack > VanHeuveln, Lemar > VanSchoonhoven, Peter > Vanartsdalen, Scott > Vandenbroek, Martin > Vangrunsven, Stan > Vaughan, Cye > Vaughn, John > Verdev, Victor > Vervoort-Woestenburg, Jef > Vincent, Bill > Vogt, Gary > VonRuden, Dennis > Vormbaum, John > Voss, Richard > Vranken, Karel > Wagoner, Richard > Waldal, Art B. > Walker, Dale > Walker, Tommy > Walker, Weston > Walrath, Howard > Walsh, Denis > Ward, Timothy > Washburn, Oliver > Watson, Richard > Watson, Terrence > Watters, Daniel > Weaver, Erich > Weaver, Fred > Webb, Randol > Weber, Edward > Webster, Tom > Weese, Brian > Weiler, Douglas > Whelan, Thomas > Whiteley, Kenneth > Whiteside, Eric > Whittier, Lavoy (aka Bucky) > Wigney, John > Wiley, Robert > Williams , John > Williams, Hildred > Williams, Jeff > Williams, Lawrence > Williams, Terry > Williamson, John > Willig, Louis > Wilson, Christopher > Wilson, Kelly > Wimmer, Thomas > Wingard, David > Winings, James > Winne, Edward > Woboril, David > Wood, Frank > Wood, Larry > Woods, Donald > Woods, Harold > Wright, Roy > Wsiaki, Michael > Wymer, Jerry > Yager, Jack > Yamokoski, William > Young, Rollin > Zaric, Radomir > Zheng, Andrew > Zilik, Gary > Zinkham, Ralph > Zollinger, Duane > Zuniga, Oscar > ------------------- 2003 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:45:58 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions > From: caspainhower@aep.com > 12/04/2003 09:42:34 AM > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > > > >Should I run it down pvc pipe? Or do I need to be drilling rivets? > Journals I've > looked at have the wiring and tubing running through nice grommets and > clips, etc. > > Bill, > There are probably a lot of totally acceptable ways to run the wiring > without opening up the wing, but how confident are you with what's > underneath. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take that long > to drill out all the rivets from the top skin and re-rivet it. It might be > worth the piece of mind. > > Craig S. > 601XL 0-235 tail done, wings 75% > > Do not archive. > > > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:18:17 AM PST US > From: "Dave Alberti" > Subject: Zenith-List: wings: wires and what's inside > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" > > There are all kinds of small video cameras that can show you what's inside, > without drilling out rivets and opening a perfectly constructed wing. If > you see something inside you don't like then open it up. The cameras can > even serve double duty and document the construction progress with digital > photos. Photographic records are becoming the norm for many examiners and > digital photos don't require a lot of expensive film and developing costs. > I have 500 + photos taken during my construction and I bet others have even > more. Check with your local EAA chapter for a loaner or assistance from > another member. I plan to use one for my annual inspections too! > Dave > > > Bill, > There are probably a lot of totally acceptable ways to run the wiring > without opening up the wing, but how confident are you with what's > underneath. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take that long > to drill out all the rivets from the top skin and re-rivet it. It might be > worth the piece of mind. > > Craig > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:47:42 AM PST US > From: Bill Cardell > Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell > > Thanks to Kevin and everyone else that responded. With respect to the wing > tanks that Tom asked about, these are the ones that go in the storage > lockers, not the leading edge, so no plans to open for those. Next question, > if I do decide to drill out rivets, does it tend to enlarge the holes/do the > rivets spin while you drill? IOW, will I end up having to go up a size? > > Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) > bill@flyinmiata.com > Flyin' Miata > 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) > 970-242-3800 (tech support) > http://flyinmiata.com > http://flyinprotege.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: kkinney@fuse.net [mailto:kkinney@fuse.net] > Subject: Wing quandry > > > >Is it safe to just put the wiring in that black plastic sleeving and drop > it > >through the rib cut-outs? Should I run it down pvc pipe? Or do I need to be > > >drilling rivets? Journals I've looked at have the wiring and tubing running > > >through nice grommets and clips, etc. > > Hello Bill, it sounds like you're in a tough spot. Laying the wiring loose, > even with the tubing or PVC is still going to rattle around & chafe. > Since you don't want to open the wing, I do know of a technique that Chris > recommends that will reduce (but not eliminate) the rattle/chafe problem. > > Chris solved the problem by using to cable ties at each rib. > 1) Drill a holes big enough for the cable tie at 10:30 & 4:30 respective to > the lightening hole. (There is a minimum clearance distance published > somewhere...) > 2) Deburr (and grommet if you want) > 3) Run a cable tie through the small (grommeted) hole and through the > lightening hole. > 4) For the second cable tie, run it through the first cable tie and through > the second hole. This way the two cable ties interlink roughly in the > middle of the lightening hole. > 5) Run your tubing through the intersection of the two cable ties. > > I'm glad I'm not in your position. If I were, I'd probably like to see the > workmanship on the inside of the wing anyway. > > > Best of luck, > Kevin Kinney > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:24:53 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry > From: caspainhower@aep.com > 12/04/2003 02:24:13 PM > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > > > >Thanks to Kevin and everyone else that responded. With respect to the wing > tanks that Tom asked about, these are the ones that go in the storage > lockers, not the leading edge, so no plans to open for those. Next > question, > if I do decide to drill out rivets, does it tend to enlarge the holes/do > the > rivets spin while you drill? IOW, will I end up having to go up a size? > > Bill, > When I drilled out the rivets I used the same size bit used to drill > the original holes. Drill until the rivet head comes off and the remaining > portion should easily pop out the backside. Sometimes you have to do a > little extra drilling but not usually. I re-riveted with the same size > rivets with no appreciable enlargement of the hole. At the ZAC workshop > that is one of the first things they show you. Use a good bit and keep the > drill straight. Be sure to support the wing using the spacers shown in the > prints so the last few rivets won't stress the holes. > > Craig S. > 601XL > > > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:04:35 PM PST US > From: Bill Cardell > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell > > Well, I guess one question might be-does anybody remember George Warner? I > bought the plane from his widow, maybe somebody on the list has seen it? > > Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) > bill@flyinmiata.com > Flyin' Miata > 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) > 970-242-3800 (tech support) > http://flyinmiata.com > http://flyinprotege.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: caspainhower@aep.com [mailto:caspainhower@aep.com] > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The first of many dumb questions > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > > > >Should I run it down pvc pipe? Or do I need to be drilling rivets? > Journals I've > looked at have the wiring and tubing running through nice grommets and > clips, etc. > > Bill, > There are probably a lot of totally acceptable ways to run the wiring > without opening up the wing, but how confident are you with what's > underneath. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take that long > to drill out all the rivets from the top skin and re-rivet it. It might be > worth the piece of mind. > > Craig S. > 601XL 0-235 tail done, wings 75% > > Do not archive. > > > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:14:43 PM PST US > From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" > > Nope...I have unzipped one LE skin twice...once to install the tanks...and a > second time to fix a leak. > > To fix the leak I left the wing on the plane and because I have piano > hinges, pulled out the hinge pin and strapped a 2*4 (with a slot cut in it > to clear the hinge) to the rear spar. Use the nose skin straps in the normal > way. > > Pilot drill the holes first with a 3/32nd drill...This is viatally important > as the 1/8th drill will wander other wise. > > Then carefully with the 1/8th, drill slowly with the battery drill until the > head just snaps off without even touching the skin. > > Sounds difficult but it is very easy provided you pilot drill the heads > first. > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > caspainhower@aep.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > > > >Thanks to Kevin and everyone else that responded. With respect to the > >wing > tanks that Tom asked about, these are the ones that go in the storage > lockers, not the leading edge, so no plans to open for those. Next question, > if I do decide to drill out rivets, does it tend to enlarge the holes/do the > rivets spin while you drill? IOW, will I end up having to go up a size? > > Bill, > When I drilled out the rivets I used the same size bit used to drill > the original holes. Drill until the rivet head comes off and the remaining > portion should easily pop out the backside. Sometimes you have to do a > little extra drilling but not usually. I re-riveted with the same size > rivets with no appreciable enlargement of the hole. At the ZAC workshop > that is one of the first things they show you. Use a good bit and keep the > drill straight. Be sure to support the wing using the spacers shown in the > prints so the last few rivets won't stress the holes. > > Craig S. > 601XL > > > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear > Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the > intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:22:40 PM PST US > From: Bill Cardell > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell > > Thanks, Craig! > > Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) > bill@flyinmiata.com > Flyin' Miata > 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) > 970-242-3800 (tech support) > http://flyinmiata.com > http://flyinprotege.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: caspainhower@aep.com [mailto:caspainhower@aep.com] > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Wing quandry > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > > > >Thanks to Kevin and everyone else that responded. With respect to the wing > tanks that Tom asked about, these are the ones that go in the storage > lockers, not the leading edge, so no plans to open for those. Next > question, > if I do decide to drill out rivets, does it tend to enlarge the holes/do > the > rivets spin while you drill? IOW, will I end up having to go up a size? > > Bill, > When I drilled out the rivets I used the same size bit used to drill > the original holes. Drill until the rivet head comes off and the remaining > portion should easily pop out the backside. Sometimes you have to do a > little extra drilling but not usually. I re-riveted with the same size > rivets with no appreciable enlargement of the hole. At the ZAC workshop > that is one of the first things they show you. Use a good bit and keep the > drill straight. Be sure to support the wing using the spacers shown in the > prints so the last few rivets won't stress the holes. > > Craig S. > 601XL > > > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:31:51 PM PST US > From: "Steve Russell" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: spar rivet size > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Russell" > > This is my first time to write. I'm gathering the parts, tools, etc. to scratch > build the spars for my 701. I'm going with the .125 extrusion L's vs. the .93. > The plans call for rivet size to beA N-470-AD-5-6 to tie the spar cap to the > web. Since I'm going with a larger size extrusion material is this the right > size of rivet to use? > Thanks > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:36:41 PM PST US > From: xl > Subject: Zenith-List: CH601XL fuel caps - they stuck----- > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl > > > I put fuel in N633Z for the first time today, fired it up and taxied. > > I did have a problem with the fuel caps - came with the kit. > We thought they were locked - I never locked them. > It's easier to drain the fuel for the bottom if you want it..... > > The caps came on and off fine before. > But this time it was on the ramp and 40 degrees. > The metal fuel tank opening shrunk and held the plastic caps > in very tightly. We could barely get the caps out with generous > application of oil and knocking them from side to side (not good). > > We filed the sides down (above the o ring) and now they come in > and out fine. > > Joe > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:44:46 PM PST US > From: "Jon Croke" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: spar rivet size > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > > Steve, > > I just completed my spars and used the same oversized extrusions. I went to > the next size up (AD5-7) in order to satisfy the formula for length (not on > the top of my head at the moment). It all came out fine! > > Jon > N701US > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Russell" > > > > This is my first time to write. I'm gathering the parts, tools, etc. to > scratch build the spars for my 701. I'm going with the .125 extrusion L's > vs. the .93. The plans call for rivet size to beA N-470-AD-5-6 to tie the > spar cap to the web. Since I'm going with a larger size extrusion material > is this the right size of rivet to use? > > Thanks > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:58:47 PM PST US > From: "Jim Frisby" > Subject: Zenith-List: removing "pulled" rivets (was "WING QUANDRY") > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" > > > When removing #4 rivets, I drill with a #40 drill, down to the stub of the > mandrel, then I put another#40 drill bit blunt end first into the hole, just > below the thickness of the first layer of skin, then I tip the bit back and > forth sideways, this causes the head to break of below the surface, the > skins will seperate easily. If they don't, you can tap the remainder of the > rivet out with an old mandrel, leaves the hole untouched. For #5 rivets, I > use a #30 drill. > > Beware when removing rivets, the other end of the rivet may fall down into > the structure, if it rolls under a wing tank or something where you can't > get at it, it can cause trouble in the future, after vibration and wear. > > Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year six months > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:40 PM PST US From: Tim & Diane Shankland Subject: Zenith-List: making figerglass cowling --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland I'm about to start the process of making a plug then a mold then the cowling. A friend from my EAA chapter gave me a detailed description on the process, he had made several. He mentioned that after the plug was shaped he would paint something on it that was expensive but gave the plug a glossy smooth finish. Which means a glossy smooth finish for the finished part. Unfortunately he died in a recent auto accident and I don't remember the "stuff" he painted on. Does anyone have any idea what this would be. Tim Shankland ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:19 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: making figerglass cowling --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Polyvinyl Alcohol Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim & Diane Shankland" Subject: Zenith-List: making figerglass cowling > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland > > I'm about to start the process of making a plug then a mold then the > cowling. A friend from my EAA chapter gave me a detailed description on > the process, he had made several. He mentioned that after the plug was > shaped he would paint something on it that was expensive but gave the > plug a glossy smooth finish. Which means a glossy smooth finish for the > finished part. Unfortunately he died in a recent auto accident and I > don't remember the "stuff" he painted on. Does anyone have any idea what > this would be. > > Tim Shankland > >