Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:32 AM - Re: Roll Bar (88tierra)
2. 06:41 AM - Re: Final Decision (David Barth)
3. 07:02 AM - Re: AreoFlash Wiring Diagram ()
4. 08:16 AM - Re: Final Decision (Traveling Man)
5. 08:56 AM - Zinc Chromate temperature limits... (Bima, Martin)
6. 09:48 AM - Re: Zinc Chromate temperature limits... (_ SL _)
7. 09:57 AM - Christmas Greetings (Robert Schoenberger)
8. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Final Decision (Kevin W Bonds)
9. 11:49 AM - Re: Roll Bar...BRS (Eric Tauch)
10. 11:57 AM - Re: Zinc Chromate temperature limits... (Larry McFarland)
11. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: Final Decision (Larry McFarland)
12. 02:57 PM - Re: AreoFlash Wiring Diagram (Gary Gower)
13. 03:01 PM - Intermittent Internet Connectivity Issues to Matronics... (Matt Dralle)
14. 07:12 PM - Re: Roll Bar...BRS (Wayne McIntosh)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" <lnk@cis.net>
I certainly understand the idea of a roll bar on the ground having a racing
background. My reason for asking in this conversation, though, is that it
would seem that a roll bar could be a better place to anchor a chute than
the exterior sling that ZAC/BRS drawings show.
Larry K
Bellevue, IA
601XL Wanna Builder
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
PAULROD36@msn.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll Bar
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Actually, yes, but it's important to note that the two don't equate. A BRS
will get you down relatively safely, and (hopefully) right side up. The roll
bar protects you in what might delicately be referred to as a zero AGL
half-loop. I like the idea of an extra reinforcement at the front of the
baggage compartment, and will look seriously into it when I get that far. I
would guess somebody has already done it.
Paul Rodriguez
Corvair'd 601XL, wings almost ready
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Final Decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
The sonex looks like a greate little plane - little
being the operative word. I sat in one once and found
it to be quite tight. The XL has very reasonable
shoulder room. The same goes for the KR2 but that is
not what kept me away from that plane. It was the
fiberglass. I am not a big fan of working with the
materials necessary to build that airplane. The other
thing that scared me away was a short clip of a KR2
crash. It was a spin/stall shortly after leaving the
ground (about 10 feet). After the dust settled there
was the pilot sitting on the runway in a pile of
rubble . The fiberglass just sort of
exploded/disintegrated and there was very little left
that was recognizable as "aircraft"
Lastly there was a person already building an XL in my
club. That help is an enormous factor.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your decision.
David
do not archive
--- David Witt <david@davidwitt.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Witt"
> <david@davidwitt.com>
>
> The following was posted by someone to the Sonex
> list on yahoo recently.
> I would be interested in comments from builders on
> this list as to why they
> selected the Zodiac XL .
>
> > I am about to commit to a design and have been
> looking at the SONEX,
> > the ZODIAC series (HDS or XL) and the KR2S.
>
> > I would assume that others have gone through the
> same process and
> > would welcome input as to your findings and why
> you settled on the
> > SONEX, if in fact that was your final decision.
>
> > Thanks in advance for your input.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Still making parts. Nose Ribs Done and about half the rear ribs for the wings.
Stab and elevator waiting for skins. Flaps, ailerons and Rudder ready for inspection.
__________________________________
http://photos.yahoo.com/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AreoFlash Wiring Diagram |
Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:01:57 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Thanks to Al Young and Dave Alberti for advising me on the placement of the wires,
now we can proceed.
Paul Rodriguez
601 Corvair'd, working the wings
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Young
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: AreoFlash Wiring Diagram
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Paul- The red wire goes into the #1 of the female plug. The black goes into
the #2 (middle) and the white goes into the #3. The #1 slot if not marked
with a #1, is the one above the ridge on the outside of the plug. Hope this
helps. Al Young 601XL 'bout done with the fuselage.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Final Decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" <travliman58@hotmail.com>
Hello all, this is my first post to the list.
I have spent the last two years looking at different aircraft with an eye
towards building. Among the many different planes I looked at seriously were
the Sonex, Kitfox, Preceptor, and Avid. I purchased my plan set for the
Zodiac HD based on a long list of factors, among them:
All metal, (I'm a sheet metal designer, planes made of wood and fabric
frighten me).
Interior room, I'm a "wide load" by myself. add the wife and it starts to
get ridiculous.
Useful load, did I mention I'm a "wide load" by myself?
Difficulty and time, I didn't want to spend multiple years on this project,
although I probably will now that I've decided to build from plans.
Looks, Okay, color me shallow, the Zodiac just looks like an airplane should
look.
My decision to build from plans is based on two factors, saving cash, and I
have a number of modifications I wish to make and the kit won't help me much
in that regard.
Bob Lindley
CH601 HD - Just paper on the table for now
Signed up for the January workshop
Get dial-up Internet access now with our best offer: 6 months @$9.95/month!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Zinc Chromate temperature limits... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Hello all,
Could someone please let me know the application temperature limits of
Zinc-Chromate and Zinc-Oxide. I am stuck on a few parts right now deciding
whether to move on to other parts or assemble what I have. To do the
assembly, I need to prime. It is about 20F outside now and my shop is about
65F.
What temperatures can I paint in?
Thanks
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
Winnipeg, Canada
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
Zinc Chromate temperature limits...
Hello all,
Could someone please let me know the application temperature limits of Zinc-Chromate
and Zinc-Oxide. I am stuck on a few parts right now deciding whether to
move on to other parts or assemble what I have. To do the assembly, I need to
prime. It is about 20F outside now and my shop is about 65F.
What temperatures can I paint in?
Thanks
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
Winnipeg, Canada
Message 6
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| Subject: | Zinc Chromate temperature limits... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "_ SL _" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Martin:
You can bring the can and the workpiece inside and let them warm up just
before spraying, then bring it outside to spray, then carefully bring them
back inside. I do this with small parts.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate temperature limits...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Hello all,
Could someone please let me know the application temperature limits of
Zinc-Chromate and Zinc-Oxide. I am stuck on a few parts right now deciding
whether to move on to other parts or assemble what I have. To do the
assembly, I need to prime. It is about 20F outside now and my shop is about
65F.
What temperatures can I paint in?
Thanks
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
Winnipeg, Canada
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
Zinc Chromate temperature limits...
Hello all,
Could someone please let me know the application temperature limits of
Zinc-Chromate and Zinc-Oxide. I am stuck on a few parts right now deciding
whether to move on to other parts or assemble what I have. To do the
assembly, I need to prime. It is about 20F outside now and my shop is about
65F.
What temperatures can I paint in?
Thanks
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
Winnipeg, Canada
Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home.
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx
Message 7
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| Subject: | Christmas Greetings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Hi List . . . Just a short note to wish you all a blessed Christmas and that 2004
will be everything you hope for. Thank you for . .
. , , , all the help I've received from this list - it has made the building
process immensely more enjoyable.
. . . all the words of encouragement to those who need it.
. . . .the never-give-up examples which inspire us all such as Jon Croke starting
to build again after his plane became unflyable.
And to those who are flying on early Christmas morning, watch out for the guy in
the sled. I don't think his craft has running lights. Merry Christmas!!!!!
Robert Schoenberger Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Final Decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
Hello Bob
Welcome to the list. I will be at the January workshop as well. I have been
lurking on this list for a while but, have not yet started building my XL. I
am looking forward to the workshop. see you there.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
P.S. I hope they give us nametags.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Traveling Man" <travliman58@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Final Decision
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man"
<travliman58@hotmail.com>
>
> Hello all, this is my first post to the list.
>
> I have spent the last two years looking at different aircraft with an eye
> towards building. Among the many different planes I looked at seriously
were
> the Sonex, Kitfox, Preceptor, and Avid. I purchased my plan set for the
> Zodiac HD based on a long list of factors, among them:
>
> All metal, (I'm a sheet metal designer, planes made of wood and fabric
> frighten me).
> Interior room, I'm a "wide load" by myself. add the wife and it starts to
> get ridiculous.
> Useful load, did I mention I'm a "wide load" by myself?
> Difficulty and time, I didn't want to spend multiple years on this
project,
> although I probably will now that I've decided to build from plans.
> Looks, Okay, color me shallow, the Zodiac just looks like an airplane
should
> look.
>
> My decision to build from plans is based on two factors, saving cash, and
I
> have a number of modifications I wish to make and the kit won't help me
much
> in that regard.
>
> Bob Lindley
> CH601 HD - Just paper on the table for now
> Signed up for the January workshop
>
> Get dial-up Internet access now with our best offer: 6 months
@$9.95/month!
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Roll Bar...BRS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net>
Yes, I saw your point originally, and would tend to agree.
The problem is the detailed engineering that has to be done to make sure the
chute gets
attached to all the right points to deploy properly and take the stress
loads. The resulting roll bar
would have to be much sturdier and better attached to the airframe also.
The only solution I have seen for the 601 involves a wire harness that is
"glued down" along the
outside of the aircraft. In the even of deployment, it rips away, and is
outside of aircraft body.
From what I could see it was ugly and cumbersome. Add to that the BRS
weight penalty and cost,
and my personal opinion was that it is not worth it.
By contrast, a simple roll-bar is low tech, cheap, and light. Just my guess,
but I bet that statistically,
you are probably much more likely to be in a ground/taxi accident than in a
situation where you
would need to deploy the chute.
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "88tierra" <lnk@cis.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Roll Bar
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" <lnk@cis.net>
>
> I certainly understand the idea of a roll bar on the ground having a
racing
> background. My reason for asking in this conversation, though, is that it
> would seem that a roll bar could be a better place to anchor a chute than
> the exterior sling that ZAC/BRS drawings show.
>
> Larry K
> Bellevue, IA
> 601XL Wanna Builder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> PAULROD36@msn.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll Bar
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
>
> Actually, yes, but it's important to note that the two don't equate. A BRS
> will get you down relatively safely, and (hopefully) right side up. The
roll
> bar protects you in what might delicately be referred to as a zero AGL
> half-loop. I like the idea of an extra reinforcement at the front of the
> baggage compartment, and will look seriously into it when I get that far.
I
> would guess somebody has already done it.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> Corvair'd 601XL, wings almost ready
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate temperature limits... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> What temperatures can I paint in?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Martin Bima
>
> STOL-Vair
>
> Winnipeg, Canada
>
>
> Martin,
I spray zinc chromate in my workshop at 62-degrees f. and
then briefly open the doors and windows after painting is done
to suck the air out through a whole house ceiling fan. Takes
about 3 minutes to clear the air. Then I remove my 3M
6000 organic spray mask and stay out of there for another 10
til the lingering odor is gone from the drying parts. Then
clear the air again before resuming work.
Larry C. McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Final Decision |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Final Decision
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man"
<travliman58@hotmail.com>
>
> Hello all, this is my first post to the list.
I purchased my plan set for the
> Zodiac HD
> All metal, (I'm a sheet metal designer, planes made of wood and fabric
> frighten me).
> Bob Lindley
> CH601 HD - Just paper on the table for now
>
> Welcome Bob,
This is a rich archival forum and the 601 is a great scratch builder's
plane.
Pleased to have you aboard.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Scratch builder at www.macsmachine.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: AreoFlash Wiring Diagram |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Paul,
I can scan it and send it if you agree. I have the sheet that comes
with the strobe kit.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- PAULROD36@msn.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
>
> I recently acquired an AeroFlash wingtip strobe/nav light set, but
> unfortunately, some of the wires were unplugged, rather than cut.
> Thus, I have the strobe light with a red, black and white wire, and a
> three-wire female connector mounted on the strobe's power supply.
> Since I regard light bulbs as sorcery, and regularly sacrifice a
> rubber chicken (they last longer) before turning on my computer, I
> figure I'd better ask before proceeding to fry the whole thing.
> Does anybody have a wiring diagram, or remember, which wire goes
> where into the female connector, starting from, say, the base of the
> power supply? Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> Corvair'd 601XL, wings almost ready for skin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Intermittent Internet Connectivity Issues to Matronics... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Starting at about 1:05pm PDT Matronics starting having intermittent
connectivity issues to the Internet. I've called the ISP and they are
looking into the problem and may do intrusive testing on the line at some
point this afternoon/evening. For the most part, things seem to be working
right now, but the line will drop out every once in a while for 2 to 3 minutes.
This problem will effect connections to the Matronics Web server as well as
distribution of List mail.
I will post a follow up when the problem has been resolved... Hopefully
later today.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Roll Bar...BRS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
I have been thinking about roll bars for the 601 also. What do we need? How
strong does it have to be for protection in an accident? If we put something
as strong as the landing gear on the on the top of the plane and dropped a
601 loaded at gross weight from 6 feet on to concrete it would probably not
protect the occupants from injury. If you had no roll over protection and
dropped the same plane from 1 foot the occupants probably would be injured
and may not be able to exit the plane by themselves. In the town I live in a
Piper Cherokee/Warrior made a forced landing on our golf corse, the nose
wheel dug in and the plane flipped upside down. The pilot was not injured
but needed to be rescued (a golfer kicked out a window). The top of the
cabin was mashed down about 10". There is actually quite a bit of structure
in the roof and windshield of a Cherokee. If the Cherokee had a canopy like
a 601 and just a 1" diameter roll bar I think the roll bar would deform some
and probably also dig into the earth. This would I suppose give some
protection but I wonder how much? I once had a race car that had a gross
weight less than a 601, I flipped it over at less than 50MPH the roll bar
was 1 1/2" od and 1/8" wall and braced to structure much stronger than
anything in a 601. I lived but the roll bar was really bent up. What I am
thinking is that it may not be possible to put a real strong roll over
structure in a 601 without designing in hard points to attach it to. I
suppose you could eyeball engineer a roll over structure but would it work
and how much would it weigh?
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
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