---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/27/03: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:47 AM - Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna (Richard McLachlan) 2. 05:14 AM - Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna (N 5XL) 3. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna (Ron DeWees) 4. 08:10 AM - Zodiac upgrades for Flight Simulator 2004 (Paul Hartl) 5. 09:07 AM - Re: 701firewall (Flydog1966@aol.com) 6. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna (Frank Jones) 7. 11:40 AM - Matco Brakes reservoir (Robert Rehmel) 8. 12:12 PM - Re: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna (Leo J. Corbalis) 9. 12:34 PM - Re: Matco Brakes reservoir (Jack Russell) 10. 12:51 PM - 701 Firewalls, cortec and Sport pilot (Jon Croke) 11. 01:24 PM - Re: Matco Brakes reservoir (Thomas F Marson) 12. 01:28 PM - Re: Matco Brakes reservoir (Thomas F Marson) 13. 02:44 PM - Re: 701 Firewalls, cortec and Sport pilot (Flydog1966@aol.com) 14. 04:38 PM - Re: 701 Firewalls, cortec and Sport pilot (ronnie wehba) 15. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna (jnbolding1) 16. 07:21 PM - Re: Matco Brakes reservoir (TOMGILES@aol.com) 17. 10:51 PM - Custom Riveter (Jeff DeMello) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:33 AM PST US From: "Richard McLachlan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" The effect you describe may be due to poor grounding at the antenna end. It needs some sort of ground to work against so make sure you have a good connection between the outer braid of the cable and the metal skin of the a/c. Borrow an SWR meter from somebody - all radio hams have them. Ask the lender how to use it.Check the match between the radio and the antenna at the radio end. You need to get say 1.5:1 or lower. Also borrow an Icom radio from somebody and try that. The performance is better than the Yaesu(Yaesu=Vertex, same thing). You may need to trim the antenna length to get the match right. Richard CH601HD/R22 G3OQT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Stout" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" > > Frank > > Mine does a similar thing as well. I have a Yeasu, which looks very much > like a Vertex. Maybe related some how. I have not tried the rubber antenna. > Mine only does it for a couple of minutes after take off, then again as I > approach for landing. I know it sounds a bit crazy, but it seemed like it > was altitude related. Usually about 1000-1500 ft agl I get a lot of noise > that can't be squelched. As I leave the airport area, it goes away and > doesn't happen again until I'm about to enter downwind. I need to see if it > occurs at other airports. I should also try my rubber antenna. Let me know > if you come up with a fix. > > Randy Stout > CH 601 HD > n282rs@sbcglobal.net > http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Jones" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > > > Looking for some RF help. > > > > I've hooked my Vertex VXA-210 handheld transceiver up to an external 1/4 > > wave antenna I bought from aircraft spruce. It has some annoying > > problems that I don't have with the rubber antenna supplied with the > > radio. First, I'm often getting static background that just can't be > > squelched blasting in my ear. Usually depends on power setting of the > > engine but not always. Second, when I was really close to the Ottawa > > tower the other day I couldn't read the ATC voice at all. To my > > untrained ear it sounded like way too much power was coming into the > > unit and the waves were being clipped. Once I got a half mile or so away > > everything was okay again. > > > > One thing I did not do is ensure my coax RG58 cable was of a proper > > length (ie. in increments of a wave 1.25m or so). I'm wondering if this > > might be the cause of my problem or if I should cut the antenna down to > > being a 1/8 wave instead of the current 1/4 wave. > > > > I don't know anything about RF so any help is appreciated. > > > > Frank Jones > > C-GYXQ 601XL 912S > > 19.5 hours > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:12 AM PST US From: "N 5XL" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "N 5XL" Morning Frank and Group... First time poster here, but a long time ham radio operator. Welcome to the world of what is called mobile communications. It (ham radio at least) is a rough environment for a radio to operate in and do it without some shortcomings. While I cant comment exactly on the cause of your problem (I have never run aeronautical mobile, but do run HF mobile and VHF mobile from my truck), I can comment on several things that you can check on. First thing to Franks comment. Yaesu and Vertex are the same people. The exact division of what Yaesu handles and what Vertex handles is somewhat overlapping, but in general Yaesu handles amateur radio communication products. Vertex handles the commercial and business band accounts. Both divisions usually share the same electronics inside the "box" and sometimes even share the box! The difference is usually something relating to the FCC and having equipment being "type accepted" for a particular service. Second thing in general on all mobile communications. Grounding IS EVERYTHING. Both electrical AND RF grounding that is. Since you are running handhelds, and grounding issues are more difficult, it is critical that the coax connection is installed correctly as well as the antenna is grounded *if it is a style that has a built in ground plane. Some antennas use the antenna mounting bracket as a ground connection...some dont, and actually have a "ground plane" built into the antenna element. Since we are talking about a simple quarter wave antenna, the most common configuration is a quarter wave element attached to the center of your coax, with the shield of the coax serving for the RF ground path between the radio and antenna. MAKE SURE that the mounting bracket for the antenna is contacting the bare metal of the aircraft for a good connection. To compound matters even further, just because you have a good "connection" as verified by an ohmmeter, that doesnt mean that it is an acceptable RF ground. The latter usually requires a special SWR bridge and antenna analyzer to check. Lets leave it to a good, solid, ohmmeter checkable ground for our purposes. Unless you are into ham radio stuff, or can take it to a communications specialist to have the SWR checked, thats about the best you can do on your own. Its unfortunate that most people that dont deal with RF on a regular basis think that buying coax with the "pre installed" ends is actually better than installing your own end connectors. I have been down that road early on in my ham radio experience, and you just cant beat putting on your own end connector. Since its one of those things you just have to try and do it, I cant show you how to do it. I would recommend you verify that the ends of the coax are installed correctly and are solid. Once again, the best you can do here is to check with an ohmmeter. Make sure that there is NO CONNECTION between the center pin of the end connector and the outer barrel or shell of the connector. Wiggle the connector while you are checking to look for bad connections. Make sure that there IS A CONNECTION between the center pins of both ends of the coax. Likewise, make sure that there IS A CONNECTION between both ends of the coax on the shell, or outside of the connector. I have seen all three checks fail (sometimes all on the same piece) on different store bought coax assemblies. The third thing to check, unfortunately, is the radio itself. You will find that, radios that are designed SPECIFICALLY for one purpose will suffer the least in terms of front-end overload. Someone commented that when they were right over the field that they had distorted communications and it improved when they were out a bit. That would be a symptom of front-end overload of the receiver. In general, it is poor radio design that causes that, but it can be aggravated by antenna / coax / connector issues. I have owned several Yaesu radios (HF and VHF... FT 100D in my truck, FT 23, 26, 530 handhelds and a VERY OLD FRDX 400 series ), and have always seen better performance from "single band" rigs. Multi band radios...ones that cover aircraft bands IN ADDITION to ham bands, broadcast bands etc...suffer the most from front end overload. Without getting too overly complicated as to the exact reason that this is the case, it boils down to the very first few tuned circuits in the radio and if they are designed to deal with one set of frequencies or range for frequencies. Unfortunately, the only way to check if this is the case is to swap out radios from a different manufacturer and see if the problem is better or worse. Of all the issues I have listed so far, the radio itself is probably the last one that I would check. Coax and antenna issues would be the first things I would check. The aircraft issues worth checking are GOOD GROUNDING of the engine and airframe. I had absolute FITS when I put my HF rig in my truck from ungrounded components on the truck. I ended up having to ground the cab of the truck to the frame with a ground strap on both sides of the truck. I also grounded the bed of the truck to the frame, and grounded the exhaust system to the frame. Before was a lot of static and hash noise whenever the truck was running, now its fine. I can see where aircraft would be similar in respect to grounding. You would think that big bolts and rivets that hold all this stuff together would be a good ground, but as I commented earlier, that doesnt mean you have a good RF ground. Make sure that your coax and or power for other instruments do NOT RUN PARALLEL to other wires (as much as possible that is...). By putting the coax right next to other power carrying wires, you can induce electrical noise into the radio, but much worse, induce RF into the engine and or nav equipment. Generally this isnt a problem, BUT IF you have a failure of a connector on the radio end or antenna end of the coax, you will end up with SWR. SWR can and will cause all sorts of nasty induced noises and RF into and out of radios, instruments, engine, strobe lights and the like. I hate it when I have a specific problem and someone gives me a "generalized" answer....but thats the best I can do without flying around with you and giving a listen. I cant tell you exactly whats going on with your noise on your handheld, but I hope I have at least given you a few things to think about. My advice would be to first check the antenna and coax ends, then check the other stuff . I will be glad to share what little I know on ham radio related issues if you need more specifics. Best of the Holidays to you... Dave N5XL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:59 AM PST US From: "Ron DeWees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" ----- Original Message ----- From: "N 5XL" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "N 5XL" > > Morning Frank and Group... > snip<> First time poster here, but a long time ham radio operator. Welcome to the > world of what is called mobile communications. It (ham radio at least) is a > rough environment for a radio to operate in and do it without some > shortcomings. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:41 AM PST US From: "Paul Hartl" Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac upgrades for Flight Simulator 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" Hi List, I've just completed upgrading my Zodiacs for the latest version of Microsoft's Flight Simulator, FS2004 (sometimes denoted FS9) The upgrades are fairly extensive, and besides fixing some problems that have arisen in FS2004, I have added a full "virtual cockpit" with instruments that work in that mode, and I also re-worked the flight dynamics to better reflect reality. These Zodiac simulations probably outclimb real-life Zodiacs, but top speed and altitude performance are (hopefully) close to reality, based on Zodiac pilot reports on this list. I don't pretend they fly just like the real thing, but I've tried hard to get them to be reasonably close. Any comments for performance modification are of course welcome - but perfect matching of Microsoft's sim world to the real world is not possible (especially stall characteristics - which are very poor). I have also added a text file to assist you in re-painting any of these Zodiacs if you should like to try out different paint schemes in simulation before you take the plunge into a real paint job! Experience in Photo Shop, Photo Impact or something similar will help. These Zodiacs are free, of course, for your flight sim pleasure. Just go to my Website at www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl and download any and all. There are 7 versions, including an XL trike, XL taildragger, HD trike, HD taildragger, HD trike HDS floatplane (amphib), and HDS taildragger. I also have a T-38, an F-84G and an F- 16 for download, but these are FS2002 versions, and the T-38 in particular is unstable in high speed flight in FS2004. I will upgrade the T-38 and F-16 later, but maybe not for a while, as I should really be working on my own real-life HDS! I hope you simmers on this list enjoy these offerings, and Happy Holidays to all! (These upgraded Zodiacs also work in the older FS2002 if you're still using it). Paul P.S. My website also has all-new screen shots of each of the above aircraft in FS2004, so even if you're not a simmer, you might enjoy taking a peek. Paul Hartl, 601HDS, Jabiru 3300 Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage nearly complete Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: http://www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl email: paulhartl@cox-internet.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:14 AM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com Looking at the online photo guide it appears I'm not only looking for 7F7-9C, but 7F7-8C as well. Looks like they are also using a 5/8" bungee pin now to. Will someone email the most recent version of page 7F7 please? What about that nose gear bearing? What materials are recomended? Thickness? Any material I should avoid? I think I can get some 1/4"UHMW plastic, this any good? I figure I should drill the hole in the plastic/nylon bearing the same diameter as the gear strut/tube(2"), but should'nt I drill the hole in the aluminum piece a bit larger to avoid metal-to-metal contact? How much oversize? Thanks Phil flydog1966@aol.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:21 AM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions on this. Sounds like the cable is the most likely suspect. My ignition is shielded and grounded at both ends. The RG58 cable is fabricated with screw on type BNC connectors. I had a heck of time figuring out exactly how to trim the coax in order for those connecters to work in the first place. I likely did a poor job. I think I'll head to the local ham shop and get some lessons on proper cable fabrication. Regards, Frank ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:30 AM PST US From: "Robert Rehmel" Subject: Zenith-List: Matco Brakes reservoir --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Rehmel" I am getting ready to install my brakes and was wondering if anyone had tried to use an external reservoir with the MC-5 brakes with the reservoir built in. My reasoning is that it would be easier to check the fluid level in the external reservoir. I have checked the archives and do not see where it had has been tried. Also any suggestions on adjusting the calipers would be nice. I have a drawing from MATCO, but someone who has done it might have some more pointers. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:37 PM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > I think you had overload trouble on the ground, If that's right, just switch to the rubber duckie. Handhelds are designed to work with the lousy gain of a rubber duck and that means more gain to receive adequately. A good 1/4 wave antenna close to the transmitter will cause gross overload. In the real world the LARGE PRINT giveth all kinds of gain and the small print distorts the audio beyond belief. Leo Corbalis ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:31 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Matco Brakes reservoir --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Robert: I thought about using this sytem and I think it would work fine because matco requires a seperate reservior is you use a 2 brake system (pilot-copilot setup).I think the aircraft spruce book has a good diagram on this. jack Robert Rehmel wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Rehmel" I am getting ready to install my brakes and was wondering if anyone had tried to use an external reservoir with the MC-5 brakes with the reservoir built in. My reasoning is that it would be easier to check the fluid level in the external reservoir. I have checked the archives and do not see where it had has been tried. Also any suggestions on adjusting the calipers would be nice. I have a drawing from MATCO, but someone who has done it might have some more pointers. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:20 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Firewalls, cortec and Sport pilot --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Forgive me in advance if I am overstating the obvious.... but to all 701 kit or scratch builders: The $50 for the updated plans (released a couple months ago) was the BEST investment I made in avoiding $5000 worth of agravation, head scratching, and parts not matching from using any older plans, due to corrections, deletions amd updates. Just as a single example: see how mad you get when you go to string your elevator cable and find that the dimension for locating that big hole on the top of the fuse is WRONG (old plans) and have to cut another hole in the correct place! The firewall stuff is an example of the new and improved changes that have been made. Just my opinion, your mileage may differ. BTW, the denature alcohol, available from your paint store, works great in thinning the Cortec primer; no more beading from water thinning. THANKS Max for that solution! And in CASE you missed it.... Sport Pilot has passed the FAA and been sent on to OMB for a 90 day review... this is GREAT NEWS.... maybe by Sun n Fun we can celebrate... (In case you're not sure what this means to you... e.g. 701 builders can fly their planes with NO medical certificates... just a drivers license) And yes, I am assuming that the provisions of Sport Pilot as sent to the FAA havent been changed to eliminate this benefit, among others. 601 builders... depends on the particular craft you are building.... Happy new year to all Jon 701 rear fuse completed nose gear bearing? What materials are recomended? > Thickness? Any material I should avoid? I think I can get some 1/4"UHMW > plastic, > this any good? I figure I should drill the hole in the plastic/nylon > bearing the same diameter as the gear strut/tube(2"), but should'nt I drill the > hole in the > aluminum piece a bit larger to avoid metal-to-metal contact? How much > oversize? > do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:49 PM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Matco Brakes reservoir --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" Hi Robert. YOu can connect it but I would no do so. The extra weight---- everything adds up. Not to mention cost. More tubeing more to leak. If the only reason you have is easier checking I would not recommend it. Everything in a plane is a compromise. Obviouly it is your choice, you are the builder. tom M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Rehmel" Subject: Zenith-List: Matco Brakes reservoir > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Rehmel" > > > I am getting ready to install my brakes and was wondering if anyone had > tried to use an external reservoir with the MC-5 brakes with the reservoir > built in. My reasoning is that it would be easier to check the fluid level > in the external reservoir. I have checked the archives and do not see > where it had has been tried. > > Also any suggestions on adjusting the calipers would be nice. I have a > drawing from MATCO, but someone who has done it might have some more > pointers. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:03 PM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Matco Brakes reservoir --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" Robert, there is no adjusting needed or possible. I do recommend that you consider a flat tire that might happen in taxing or upon landing. Place caliper on the rear as the safest. On the bottom where a flat tire would cause the caliper to "mash" into the flat tire will cause the wheel to lock up. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Rehmel" Subject: Zenith-List: Matco Brakes reservoir > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Rehmel" > > > I am getting ready to install my brakes and was wondering if anyone had > tried to use an external reservoir with the MC-5 brakes with the reservoir > built in. My reasoning is that it would be easier to check the fluid level > in the external reservoir. I have checked the archives and do not see > where it had has been tried. > > Also any suggestions on adjusting the calipers would be nice. I have a > drawing from MATCO, but someone who has done it might have some more > pointers. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:16 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Firewalls, cortec and Sport pilot --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com In a message dated 12/27/03 3:52:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, jon@joncroke.com writes: << Forgive me in advance if I am overstating the obvious.... but to all 701 kit or scratch builders: The $50 for the updated plans (released a couple months ago) was the BEST investment I made in avoiding $5000 worth of >> Valid point. But...I AM building to the "updated" 4th ed. plans I purchased a year ago (started with 3rd). I suppose I could send 'em another $50, but I'll still be printing the corrections to the 5th ed off the web site. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:45 PM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Firewalls, cortec and Sport pilot required 5, BAYES_00) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" so if i order the plans next week ,i should get all the updates?,really looking at a 701 for next project ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Firewalls, cortec and Sport pilot > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com > > In a message dated 12/27/03 3:52:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jon@joncroke.com writes: > > << Forgive me in advance if I am overstating the obvious.... but to all 701 > kit > or scratch builders: The $50 for the updated plans (released a couple > months ago) was the BEST investment I made in avoiding $5000 worth of >> > > Valid point. But...I AM building to the "updated" 4th ed. plans I > purchased a year ago (started with 3rd). I suppose I could send 'em another $50, > but I'll still be printing > the corrections to the 5th ed off the web site. > do not archive. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:32 PM PST US From: "jnbolding1" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Frank Jones" >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > >Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions on this. Sounds like the >cable is the most likely suspect. My ignition is shielded and grounded >at both ends. > > Somebody jump in here and correct me if I'm in left field without a glove but I was always taught to ground ONE end of a shielded wire, something about potential for a loop to CAUSE noise instead of reduce it. LOW&SLOW John Bolding ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:36 PM PST US From: TOMGILES@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Matco Brakes reservoir --> Zenith-List message posted by: TOMGILES@aol.com Brakes work MUCH better with an external reservoir. Very easy to refill if needed if reservoir is put in the proper place. Mine is just under the Instrument Panel so it is easy to inspect and fill. Brakes don't lose fluid as before it was installed. I used the kit from Aircraft Spruce. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:46 PM PST US From: Jeff DeMello Subject: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeff DeMello I've completed all the drilling / deburring / zinc chromating my CH 601 Introductory Starter Kit (it only took me 6.5 hours!), and I'm ready to rivet, BUT ... I need the (highly underplayed) Custom Rivet Puller, which I found is available on the Zenith web page as a Hand Riveter (with Custom Machined Heads) for $49.50, or as a Pneumatic Riveter (with Custom Machined Heads) for $89.20. My question ... can I just buy the Custom Machined Heads for my existing hand and/or pneumatic rivet guns? If so, where? Thanks in advance! -jeff- Jeff DeMello demello@renegades.org http://www.renegades.org/users/demello/flying/601XL/