---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/28/03: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:34 AM - Re: Zodiac upgrades for Flight Simulator 2004 (Richard McLachlan) 2. 01:36 AM - Re: Custom Riveter (Bryan Martin) 3. 01:57 AM - Re: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave (Bryan Martin) 4. 04:36 AM - Re: Custom Riveter (Monty Graves) 5. 04:52 AM - ch701 (ronnie wehba) 6. 05:50 AM - Re: ch701 (Robert Hillebrand) 7. 05:54 AM - Re: Custom Riveter (Robert Hillebrand) 8. 06:00 AM - ch701 (ronnie wehba) 9. 06:26 AM - Re: ch701 (Randall Stout) 10. 06:42 AM - Re: ch701 (Thomas F Marson) 11. 06:42 AM - Re: ch701 (ronnie wehba) 12. 07:03 AM - Re: Zodiac upgrades for Flight Simulator 2004 (Doug Waer) 13. 08:46 AM - Re: ch701 (jnbolding1) 14. 10:10 AM - Re: ch701 (Chuck Deiterich) 15. 01:24 PM - Re: Custom Riveter (R. Wiley) 16. 01:54 PM - Re: Custom Riveter (Bill Howerton) 17. 02:17 PM - Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna (Mark Stauffer) 18. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna (Leo J. Corbalis) 19. 05:04 PM - Rudder Peddle Breaking Off (Norm Turner) 20. 05:35 PM - Re: ch701 (Jack Stump) 21. 09:16 PM - Re: ch701 (plans or kit?) (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:56 AM PST US From: "Richard McLachlan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac upgrades for Flight Simulator 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" Will they work in FS2000? If so I will set my snail pace modem going. Also, I have just been bought X Plane for Christmas. Are there any Zodiacs available anywhere for it that anybody knows of? Happy holidays Richard CH601HD/R22 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hartl" Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac upgrades for Flight Simulator 2004 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" > > Hi List, > > I've just completed upgrading my Zodiacs for the latest version of Microsoft's Flight > Simulator, FS2004 (sometimes denoted FS9) The upgrades are fairly extensive, > and besides fixing some problems that have arisen in FS2004, I have added a full > "virtual cockpit" with instruments that work in that mode, and I also re-worked the > flight dynamics to better reflect reality. These Zodiac simulations probably outclimb > real-life Zodiacs, but top speed and altitude performance are (hopefully) close to > reality, based on Zodiac pilot reports on this list. I don't pretend they fly just like the > real thing, but I've tried hard to get them to be reasonably close. Any comments for > performance modification are of course welcome - but perfect matching of > Microsoft's sim world to the real world is not possible (especially stall characteristics > - which are very poor). > > I have also added a text file to assist you in re-painting any of these Zodiacs if you > should like to try out different paint schemes in simulation before you take the > plunge into a real paint job! Experience in Photo Shop, Photo Impact or something > similar will help. > > These Zodiacs are free, of course, for your flight sim pleasure. Just go to my > Website at www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl and download any and all. There are 7 > versions, including an XL trike, XL taildragger, HD trike, HD taildragger, HD trike > HDS floatplane (amphib), and HDS taildragger. I also have a T-38, an F-84G and > an F- 16 for download, but these are FS2002 versions, and the T-38 in particular is > unstable in high speed flight in FS2004. I will upgrade the T-38 and F-16 later, but > maybe not for a while, as I should really be working on my own real-life HDS! > > I hope you simmers on this list enjoy these offerings, and Happy Holidays to all! > (These upgraded Zodiacs also work in the older FS2002 if you're still using it). > > Paul > > P.S. My website also has all-new screen shots of each of the above aircraft in > FS2004, so even if you're not a simmer, you might enjoy taking a peek. > > > Paul Hartl, 601HDS, Jabiru 3300 > Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage nearly complete > Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: http://www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl > email: paulhartl@cox-internet.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org > Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 12/28/03 1:51 AM, Jeff DeMello at demello@bluedevils.org wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeff DeMello > I need the (highly underplayed) Custom Rivet Puller, which I found is > available on the Zenith web page as a Hand Riveter (with Custom > Machined Heads) for $49.50, or as a Pneumatic Riveter (with Custom > Machined Heads) for $89.20. > > My question ... can I just buy the Custom Machined Heads for my > existing hand and/or pneumatic rivet guns? If so, where? > What I did was chuck the riveter head piece in my drill and and spin it while grinding a dome shape in it with my dremel tool. I'd grind a little and test pull a rivet and grind some more until I got the correct shape. It only took a few minutes to do both heads. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Nearly done. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:46 AM PST US antenna Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 12/27/03 9:06 PM, jnbolding1 at jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" >> >> Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions on this. Sounds like the >> cable is the most likely suspect. My ignition is shielded and grounded >> at both ends. > >> > Somebody jump in here and correct me if I'm in left field without a glove but > I was always taught to ground ONE end of a shielded wire, something about > potential for a loop to CAUSE noise instead of reduce it. LOW&SLOW John > Bolding > The shields on audio signal wires should be grounded only on one end to prevent ground loops. These shields exist to keep noise from getting into the audio circuits. The shields on power wires and RF cables exist to keep noise signals from getting out of the wire and causing interference with other circuits. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Nearly done. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:03 AM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves A > >My question ... can I just buy the Custom Machined Heads for my >existing hand and/or pneumatic rivet guns? If so, where? > >Thanks in advance! > >-jeff- >Jeff DeMello >demello@renegades.org >http://www.renegades.org/users/demello/flying/601XL/ Zenith will machine your heads for you if you don't want to do it. Call or email for their price. I had them do 4 heads..... 2 each for my hand and pneumatic gun. Around $25-30 total for the 4 Monty ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:10 AM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" Hi all, new to the list, really thinking about a ch701, plans built, anyone on here doing this and what if any ,are there any problems with the plans? also any builders in west or central tx, new mexico,or southern ok. thanks , ron in tx. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:11 AM PST US From: Robert Hillebrand Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand I am a 701 plans builder. I have been at it since 1994. No problems except that you need to look at the plans about three or four times before you cut,drill,bend or rivet. I live in Eastern Illinois across from St.Louis. Are you aware that you can buy kit parts made up as you go along? I would maybe do that on say the ribs __where you have to make up forming blocks for just one rib. It is so labor intense making the blocks perfect. Good luck ronnie wehba wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" Hi all, new to the list, really thinking about a ch701, plans built, anyone on here doing this and what if any ,are there any problems with the plans? also any builders in west or central tx, new mexico,or southern ok. thanks , ron in tx. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:28 AM PST US From: Robert Hillebrand Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand What I did was heat the head up that will take the temper out of the nose .You don't need it tempered for AL rivets. Then take the correct size drill bit and sharpen to the angle of the finished rivet head. Drill the nose with that bit untill you have domed it out for a nice rivet head size that you want. I think the drill size is a 3/16. Good luck Monty Graves wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves A > >My question ... can I just buy the Custom Machined Heads for my >existing hand and/or pneumatic rivet guns? If so, where? > >Thanks in advance! > >-jeff- >Jeff DeMello >demello@renegades.org >http://www.renegades.org/users/demello/flying/601XL/ Zenith will machine your heads for you if you don't want to do it. Call or email for their price. I had them do 4 heads..... 2 each for my hand and pneumatic gun. Around $25-30 total for the 4 Monty --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:16 AM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" does anyone have a basic material list sheet, angle ect. for the 701 thanks ron.w. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:51 AM PST US From: "Randall Stout" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Stout" Ron Here's a couple of ways to locate other builders: http://www.matthewmucker.com/builder_directory.asp http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/search-public.html Some will list their contact information and may have their own web sites. Randy Stout - San Antonio TX CH601HD N282RS n282rs@sbcglobal.net http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Zenith-List: ch701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" > > Hi all, new to the list, really thinking about a ch701, plans built, anyone on here doing this and what if any ,are there any problems with the plans? also any builders in west or central tx, new mexico,or southern ok. thanks , ron in tx. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:04 AM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" I know of three 701 builders in Las Cruces New Mexico. Tom Marson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hillebrand" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand > > I am a 701 plans builder. I have been at it since 1994. No problems except that you need to look at the plans about three or four times before you cut,drill,bend or rivet. I live in Eastern Illinois across from St.Louis. > Are you aware that you can buy kit parts made up as you go along? I would maybe do that on say the ribs __where you have to make up forming blocks for just one rib. It is so labor intense making the blocks perfect. > Good luck > > ronnie wehba wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" > > Hi all, new to the list, really thinking about a ch701, plans built, anyone on here doing this and what if any ,are there any problems with the plans? also any builders in west or central tx, new mexico,or southern ok. thanks , ron in tx. > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:28 AM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 required 5, BAYES_00) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" thanks till later,I have already built a minimax with ao84 power, and also have a kolb ultrastar,,just wanting a 2 place stol now,,the 701 looks like a very nice project. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall Stout" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Stout" > > Ron > > Here's a couple of ways to locate other builders: > http://www.matthewmucker.com/builder_directory.asp > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/search-public.html > > Some will list their contact information and may have their own web sites. > > Randy Stout - San Antonio TX > CH601HD N282RS > n282rs@sbcglobal.net > http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > > do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ronnie wehba" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: ch701 > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" > > > > Hi all, new to the list, really thinking about a ch701, plans built, > anyone on here doing this and what if any ,are there any problems with the > plans? also any builders in west or central tx, new mexico,or southern ok. > thanks , ron in tx. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:17 AM PST US From: Doug Waer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac upgrades for Flight Simulator 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Doug Waer I had started a 601 for X-Plane a couple of years ago for v5. At the time, I didn't have the plans, I tried to build the whole thing by eyeballing it, and the rough sketches on the web-site. I got it built, but when I tried to fly it, it was dang-near uncontrollable, if it flew at all. I never purchased XPv6, because the load times annoyed me. XPv7 seems to have fixed all my v6 gripes, so I may try to start up my project again. Doug Waer 601HDS FFZ --- Richard McLachlan wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" > > Will they work in FS2000? If so I will set my snail pace modem going. > > Also, I have just been bought X Plane for Christmas. Are there any Zodiacs > available anywhere for it that anybody knows of? > > Happy holidays > > Richard > > CH601HD/R22 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Hartl" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac upgrades for Flight Simulator 2004 > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" > > > > > Hi List, > > > > I've just completed upgrading my Zodiacs for the latest version of > Microsoft's Flight > > Simulator, FS2004 (sometimes denoted FS9) The upgrades are fairly > extensive, > > and besides fixing some problems that have arisen in FS2004, I have added > a full > > "virtual cockpit" with instruments that work in that mode, and I also > re-worked the > > flight dynamics to better reflect reality. These Zodiac simulations > probably outclimb > > real-life Zodiacs, but top speed and altitude performance are (hopefully) > close to > > reality, based on Zodiac pilot reports on this list. I don't pretend they > fly just like the > > real thing, but I've tried hard to get them to be reasonably close. Any > comments for > > performance modification are of course welcome - but perfect matching of > > Microsoft's sim world to the real world is not possible (especially stall > characteristics > > - which are very poor). > > > > I have also added a text file to assist you in re-painting any of these > Zodiacs if you > > should like to try out different paint schemes in simulation before you > take the > > plunge into a real paint job! Experience in Photo Shop, Photo Impact or > something > > similar will help. > > > > These Zodiacs are free, of course, for your flight sim pleasure. Just go > to my > > Website at www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl and download any and all. There > are 7 > > versions, including an XL trike, XL taildragger, HD trike, HD taildragger, > HD trike > > HDS floatplane (amphib), and HDS taildragger. I also have a T-38, an > F-84G and > > an F- 16 for download, but these are FS2002 versions, and the T-38 in > particular is > > unstable in high speed flight in FS2004. I will upgrade the T-38 and F-16 > later, but > > maybe not for a while, as I should really be working on my own real-life > HDS! > > > > I hope you simmers on this list enjoy these offerings, and Happy Holidays > to all! > > (These upgraded Zodiacs also work in the older FS2002 if you're still > using it). > > > > Paul > > > > P.S. My website also has all-new screen shots of each of the above > aircraft in > > FS2004, so even if you're not a simmer, you might enjoy taking a peek. > > > > > > Paul Hartl, 601HDS, Jabiru 3300 > > Tail, rear fuse, wings completed;fuselage nearly complete > > Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: > http://www.cox-internet.com/paulhartl > > email: paulhartl@cox-internet.com or paul_hartl@communityschool.org > > Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147 > > > > > > > > > > ===== Douglas Waer :: Boeing Helicopter Systems :: Mesa, AZ :: 85215 http://members.cox.net/dwaer/flying.html __________________________________ http://photos.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:14 AM PST US From: "jnbolding1" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" >Hi all, new to the list, really thinking about a ch701, plans built, anyone on here doing this and what if any ,are there any problems with the plans? also any builders in west or central tx, new mexico,or southern ok. thanks , ron in tx. > Ron forgot to tell you in the last message that I'm in Baytown east of Houston 30 miles. John do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:25 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Ron, I live near Burnet about 45 miles NW of Austin. I am flying a 701. There are pix on my web page http://members.thegateway.net/cfd Chuck D. N701TX do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: ronnie wehba Subject: Zenith-List: ch701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" > > Hi all, new to the list, really thinking about a ch701, plans built, anyone on here doing this and what if any ,are there any problems with the plans? also any builders in west or central tx, new mexico,or southern ok. thanks , ron in tx. > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:34 PM PST US From: "R. Wiley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R. Wiley" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > on 12/28/03 1:51 AM, Jeff DeMello at demello@bluedevils.org wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeff DeMello > > > I need the (highly underplayed) Custom Rivet Puller, which I found is > > available on the Zenith web page as a Hand Riveter (with Custom > > Machined Heads) for $49.50, or as a Pneumatic Riveter (with Custom > > Machined Heads) for $89.20. > > > > My question ... can I just buy the Custom Machined Heads for my > > existing hand and/or pneumatic rivet guns? If so, where? > > > > What I did was chuck the riveter head piece in my drill and and spin it > while grinding a dome shape in it with my dremel tool. I'd grind a little > and test pull a rivet and grind some more until I got the correct shape. It > only took a few minutes to do both heads. > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > Airframe construction complete. > Panel and engine installed. > Nearly done. > do not archive. > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:10 PM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" I did pay for the high-priced zenith heads, but after several months, I lost the size 20 head. So I used a dremel domed grinding tool, and made my own, and I cannot tell the difference between the ones made from that head and the Zenith ones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Wiley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R. Wiley" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Martin" > To: "Zenith List" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom Riveter > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > > > on 12/28/03 1:51 AM, Jeff DeMello at demello@bluedevils.org wrote: > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeff DeMello > > > > > I need the (highly underplayed) Custom Rivet Puller, which I found is > > > available on the Zenith web page as a Hand Riveter (with Custom > > > Machined Heads) for $49.50, or as a Pneumatic Riveter (with Custom > > > Machined Heads) for $89.20. > > > > > > My question ... can I just buy the Custom Machined Heads for my > > > existing hand and/or pneumatic rivet guns? If so, where? > > > > > > > What I did was chuck the riveter head piece in my drill and and spin it > > while grinding a dome shape in it with my dremel tool. I'd grind a little > > and test pull a rivet and grind some more until I got the correct shape. > It > > only took a few minutes to do both heads. > > -- > > Bryan Martin > > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > > Airframe construction complete. > > Panel and engine installed. > > Nearly done. > > do not archive. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:02 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" Frank and others, I too had a similar problem with a Yesu. I was flying a Maxair Drifter with an intercom and homebuilt antenna. Nothing but static and AM/FM radio noise that consistently overpowered the squelch. When using the rubber antenna everything was great but the RF from the antenna overpowered the intercom producing an ear splitting squeal. I began to suspect the antenna until I tried an Icom handheld and all of my problems went away. I sent the Yesu back to the factory and they could find nothing wrong with it and of course blamed it on my installation. Bottom line, I sold it to someone that could use it with the rubber antenna (no intercom) and bought an Icom. I flew the Icom for three years and still use it as a back up in my Cherokee. Mark Stauffer 601XL Working on wings. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Jones Subject: Zenith-List: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Looking for some RF help. I've hooked my Vertex VXA-210 handheld transceiver up to an external 1/4 wave antenna I bought from aircraft spruce. It has some annoying problems that I don't have with the rubber antenna supplied with the radio. First, I'm often getting static background that just can't be squelched blasting in my ear. Usually depends on power setting of the engine but not always. Second, when I was really close to the Ottawa tower the other day I couldn't read the ATC voice at all. To my untrained ear it sounded like way too much power was coming into the unit and the waves were being clipped. Once I got a half mile or so away everything was okay again. One thing I did not do is ensure my coax RG58 cable was of a proper length (ie. in increments of a wave 1.25m or so). I'm wondering if this might be the cause of my problem or if I should cut the antenna down to being a 1/8 wave instead of the current 1/4 wave. I don't know anything about RF so any help is appreciated. Frank Jones C-GYXQ 601XL 912S 19.5 hours ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:12 PM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" ----- Original Message ----- From: "jnbolding1" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Using a handheld with external 1/4 wave antenna > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Frank Jones" > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:17:45 -0500 > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > > >Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions on this. Sounds like the > >cable is the most likely suspect. My ignition is shielded and grounded > >at both ends. > > > > Somebody jump in here and correct me if I'm in left field without a glove but I was always taught to ground ONE end of a shielded wire, something about potential for a loop to CAUSE noise instead of reduce it. LOW&SLOW John Bolding > > Shielding is a very dark art. You should ground one end, both ends, either, neither, in the middle. Incense and incantations help! Don't ask! do not archive Leo Corbalis ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:23 PM PST US From: "Norm Turner" Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Peddle Breaking Off --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Norm Turner" Hi Group, Having just completed my round trip from Darwin to Wagga Wagga for the centenary of flight to deliver mail from the top end of Australia, a round flight of 4230 Nm and a time of 42.9Hrs. I only had one problem with the HDS and that was the left side left rudder peddle broke off around the weld with no warning while taxing @ Broken Hill in the north west of NSW. This ended up in a ground loop of sorts, and a couple of lessons I have learned from the experience.(1) make sure you have some throttle friction on during taxi, (2) If it is a hot day and you want to have the canopy open a bit for air circulation, then make sure you have some form of strapping to stop it flying open should you have to remove your elbow to shut off the mags as the throttle will advance if you let it go. It all happens very quick, 2 ground loops and a damaged canopy in about 2 seconds, not mention the hurt pride.(3) If you suspect you have a rudder problem when landing then make sure that the X wind is from the damaged rudder side,as you can be very sure that the A/C will swing into wind ,more so with a tail dragger. Back to the rudder peddle, I did a full service on my plane before leaving on this trip and this also included an inspection with a mirror of the peddles and could not detect any problems. I would suggest that all pilots of 601 and 701 Kit or plans built aircraft have a good look at the back of the rudder peddles before the next flight remove them and install gussets, especially if you are using short fields and lay into the breaks, there is a lot of mechanical force applied to that weld. If any pilot is passing through Broken Hill , drop in and say Hi to Chris Harrison and the crew @ Corner Country Air Services Hanger 30 , these people sure did help me out on that day. Due to this mishap I arrived back in Darwin a day late and missed the flight around Darwin City but all in all my flight time for the 17th UTC was 9.2Hrs with one stopover so I did my bit for 100years of powered flight. Hope all on the list have a great new year and may 2004 bring you many hours of safe flight. Norm Turner 601Hds 912 287.7hrs. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:23 PM PST US From: Jack Stump Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Stump Ron, I'll be starting my plans built 701 after the new year. I'm in Albuquerque. Also, I've put together an Excel spreadsheet for the parts. I've not built from it so I am sure there are some errors. If you are interested, let me know. I'll be back after the first week of 2004. Best regards, Jack __________________________________ http://photos.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:49 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 (plans or kit?) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hi Ron, I want to write my point of view, hope it give you an idea. I have built several planes (diferent materials each, wood, composite, cloth and tube), all plans built, our 701 are our first kit builts. Well, my point is this: I always had lots of materials ($$$ expensive and imported) left over from each project, name it spruce, epoxy, Chromoly in diferent sizes etc. The 701 is our first aluminum project, is a kit, I also think that if you buy the plane in partial kits is less expensive and time consuming than going to the "do it everything", buy lots of materials, How much material to order? not to have lots of left overs or some material missing. Make the bending forms for all the ribs (wings, slats, flaperons, elevator, stab, rudder, firewall, instrument panel, etc)... This are things to evaluate. In a kit, maybe you will have to repeat a part once in a while, (there are instructions in the plans to make each part from raw material) so the learning is complete... In the other point of view, if you have the time, go for it, plans build is great. The good thing is that the Zenith plans are so complete that will work for all the type of builders: There are guys that enjoy building (like me) builders and flyers (My brother) and some that prefer flying than building (my Dad), the kit makes all of us happy. Also you can buy partial kits once in a while if you think your building is to slow... We have a year (about 1,000 + hrs) on the first 701 (is a detailed project) and is almost ready to fly. We are working now also on our second 701 kit (we have about 50 hrs) and a 601 XL kit is still waiting on the box :-( Saludos Gary Gower. Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. --- ronnie wehba wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" > > does anyone have a basic material list sheet, angle ect. for the 701 > thanks ron.w. > > __________________________________ http://companion.yahoo.com/