Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:10 AM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (Bryan Martin)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (David Barth)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Some updates... (Gary Liming)
4. 06:40 AM - Re: Some updates... (Michel Therrien)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Weatherstrip adhesive (Michel Therrien)
6. 06:51 AM - Re: Cortec Primer (H. Robert Schoenberger)
7. 06:58 AM - Re: Kit Planes (Michel Therrien)
8. 07:03 AM - Re: New Completions - Kit Planes (Gig)
9. 07:19 AM - Re: New Completions - Kit Planes (Scott Laughlin)
10. 07:42 AM - Rv's vs 601's, comparison to automobiles (charles.long@gm.com)
11. 08:16 AM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
12. 11:04 AM - Re: Kit Planes (Don Honabach)
13. 11:06 AM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (Don Honabach)
14. 11:35 AM - Re: Kit Planes (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
15. 12:13 PM - HDS spring gear (Brandon Tucker)
16. 12:14 PM - HDS spring gear (Brandon Tucker)
17. 01:10 PM - Re: Kit Planes (Philip Polstra)
18. 01:46 PM - Re: Kit Planes (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
19. 02:11 PM - Re: Kit Planes (Philip Polstra)
20. 02:11 PM - Re: Some updates... (Zodie Rocket)
21. 02:58 PM - Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes (Larry McFarland)
22. 03:16 PM - The movement of radiator and coolant (Larry McFarland)
23. 03:27 PM - Re: HDS spring gear (wizard-24@juno.com)
24. 03:29 PM - Re: Kit Planes (wizard-24@juno.com)
25. 03:46 PM - Re: Importing a Kit to Australia, cost,tax,gst,customs. (hans blohm)
26. 04:02 PM - Re: Some updates... (Frank Jones)
27. 04:38 PM - Re: HDS spring gear (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
28. 04:55 PM - Re: Kit Planes (No 6)
29. 05:01 PM - Re: Some updates... (CLOJAN@aol.com)
30. 05:38 PM - Re: Kit Planes (Ramperf@aol.com)
31. 05:38 PM - Drilling wing skins - 601 XL (Mark Stauffer)
32. 05:58 PM - Re: Some updates... (Rick Pitcher)
33. 06:34 PM - RV popularity... (Grant Corriveau)
34. 07:19 PM - Re: Drilling wing skins - 601 XL (Dave Alberti)
35. 10:15 PM - Re: RV popularity... (Dr. Perry Morrison)
36. 10:29 PM - Re:New Completions - Kit Planes (Brenton Battles)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 7/17/03 12:53 AM, randall true at randtrue@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
>
> Frank, you bring up a question for me and my lack of
> airport hangout exposure. If the predrilled holes are
> so helpfull on an RV, why does it take a year or two
> to build a zenith, and 4 to 8 years for an RV?
Solid flush rivets. On the Vans, you still have to dimple all those holes
and buck all those rivets.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Weatherstrip adhesive |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Michel. I see you have got your call letters. I see
you will always end with Quebec. How nice for
you....living there and all. Congrats. I sense you
will be flying soon.
David
--- Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Fred for those details... I bought and used
> PolyZap. Much easier to use than the slow setting
> Weatherstrip adhesive.
>
> Michel, oh yes.... C-GZGQ!
>
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab, elevator and Rudder waiting for skins. Flaps and ailerons ready for inspection.
__________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Some updates... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
>
>I also installed the labels for the switches and
>placards on my inst. panel. I used the technique
>described on the RV Journal and I'm very satisfied
>with the result. This is shown on my instruments
>panel finishing page.
Hi Michel,
What software did you use to make the labels? I've tried Word, since it
knows the label numbers, but I can't seem to position the lettering like
I'd like to.
Gary
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Some updates... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I used Excel, but I did not use mailing labels. The
05665 sheet are full sheet stickers.
--- Gary Liming <gary@liming.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Michel,
>
> What software did you use to make the labels? I've
> tried Word, since it
> knows the label numbers, but I can't seem to
> position the lettering like
> I'd like to.
>
> Gary
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Weatherstrip adhesive |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I did not choose the letters as there was a fee for
that (reserving assigned letters cost nothing...) I
did'nt even notice the Quebec thing (as being the
province I live in).
I hope to complete the plane in August (but it seems
to be a long shot!).
do not archive
--- David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth
> <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
>
> Michel. I see you have got your call letters. I
> see
> you will always end with Quebec. How nice for
> you....living there and all. Congrats. I sense you
> will be flying soon.
> David
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cortec Primer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
List . . . I would be interested once the 373 vs. 374 issue is resolved. The
correspondence I had with the company indicated the 373 should be topcoated
with 386 aluminum coating, but I'm not sure what aluminum coating is. I'm
not too interested in a two coat installation.
If this stuff is as good as it appears, I should think Aircraft Spruce
should be made aware of it so they can repackage it into quart cans. The
zinc chromate (qt. size) I bought from them last year had the appearance of
repackaging (no company label etc.). Cortec makes it in green accornding to
their website, and I think this is much more preferable than the clear both
for seeing where the primer has been applied and also for a traditional
appearance. If offered through Aircraft Spruce, I think the demand
throughout the kitbuilders world would be quite high. Hap Schoenberger 701
tail completed, working on right wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Thomure" <rthomure@ameritech.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec Primer
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Thomure"
<rthomure@ameritech.net>
>
> I got in contact with Cortec today about their primers.
> They recommended the VpCI-374, instead of the 373.
> The 373 needs to be top coated, where the 374 is OK without a top coat.
>
> Unfortunately they only sell the stuff in 5 gal and 55 gal drums.
>
> Would there be enough interest for them to stock the stuff in quarts?
>
> Ill try to get some price estimates for 5 gals and their price for smaller
> lots.
>
> Your guess on demand would be appreciated.
>
> Randy Thomure
>
>
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
See below:
--- Norman Turner <normsflighttraining@bigpond.com>
wrote:
> ... If the RV's builders or / and
> flyers wish to comment on RV's then do it on your
> web site not on the ZENITH site.
I thought that the Matronics mailing lists were
totally independent from the kit suppliers. This is
NOT a Zenith site and everyone should be entitled to
opinions independent from ZAC or Zenair's ideas,
objectives, opinions or wishes. (IMO)
>... st to Ali
> to the owner, it is a job I do with pride and faith
> in Zenith aircraft. This site is just great for
> information on any subject on ZENITH aircraft ,
> wether it is to do with building or mods to your pet
> zenith.
>... My thoughts ,and I might add the ZAC factory
> are always happy to answer any questions you may
Yes it's very true but I don't think this is being
questioned at all.
I think that it's very fair that we discuss the value
of our aircrafts vs other aircrafts. Zodiacs when
compared with any other models have benefits and
drawbacks.... after all, nothing is perfect. For
example, the fact that I won't recuperate my
investment should I sell the plane is quite disturbing
to me.
Is showing that Zenair got some competion a bad thing?
I'm not sure as this demonstrates that nothing is
perfect and it welcomes improvements and re-design.
It should also motivate ZAC and Zenair to make better
manuals and more accurate plans.
Michel
do not archive
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig <wr.giacona@cox-internet.com>
I have too noticed that I don't see many completion photos of Zeniths in
any of the mags. I have meant to say something because since September
when I started both building and reading this list I know I've counted
at least 5 or six completions.
Come on guys. When you finish send the photos to the magazines. I know
I'll be sending one in days after completion. (When that day finaly
comes.) It's good for Zenith which means it's good for us.
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
Zenith 601XL http://www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
PP-SEL RH
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Brad:
I have posted a photo of the chuckbird completion on my website at:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/OTHERSTUFF/Chuckbird.jpg
I'm all for talking about other aircraft projects. This just reinforces my
decision to build a Zenith aircraft. I did lots of research before starting
my 601XL and the more I read, the more I'm happy with my decision. I review
RV builders sites and other aircraft builder sites often to get ideas and
tips on building parts. Being a plans builder, this type of research is a
really helpful.
Of course if you were not a builder (like someone who posted a reply to this
message yesterday), but just a flyer then you wouldn't be interested in most
of the building discussions we have on this site anyway.
May all of your rivet lines be straight.
Enjoy,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Brad Johnston" <bradley.johnston@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Completions - Kit Planes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Johnston"
<bradley.johnston@rogers.com>
Hey cool! Which issue had the Chuckbird in it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: New Completions - Kit Planes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
<cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Fellow Zenith Listers:
>
> I have a subscription to "KitPlanes" magazine. Every month I get my new
> copy and skim through once quickly and find myself near the end usually
> around page 71. This is where KitPlanes shows photographs and a
paragraph
> or two of Completions. I see Vans RV-9s, KR2s, RV-6s, RVs, and more
> RVs and even a Texas Chuckbird for goodness sake. Why dont we see any
> completed Zenith aircraft in this magazine? OK, Im only 6 months new to
> this, so maybe there were some before my time, but it is time for some
new
> completions to be published.
>
> I know some of you are nearing completion and several of you have just
> finished and are flying. Send your photos to KitPlanes and get our name
out
> there! Maybe some of you already have and I patiently wait each month to
> see a Zenith aircraft on Page 71 or 72 of Kitplanes Magazine!
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Rv's vs 601's, comparison to automobiles |
07/17/2003 10:41:35 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
. . . My opinion, comparing the two is similar to comparing a
Volkswagen to a Ford Mustang.
I would like to take exception to this statement. In my opinion,
both aircraft are sports cars in a sense. From a climb and handling
standpoint, they're both superb, a hoot to fly; far better than most
certified aircraft (I've flown both designs as well as many other
certificed aircraft). Remember, the HP - Weight ratio on a lightly built /
100 hp 601 is not that much less than a corvette. A Volkswagen doesn't
even come close performance wise. Not trying to minimize RV's other strong
points. From a top speed standpoint, the RV leaves the 601 in the dust and
it's also aerobatic. All depends what kind of flying you do. If you like
to drive the winding roads with the top down, a top end of a 130 mph takes
nothing away from the experience. Handling is what counts. If you
honestly do a lot of cross crounty (most of us hate to admit we don't), the
extra 50 kts is nice to have. But there again, if I'm trying to go
somewhere and I'm in a hurry, I like to file IFR. In talking to the RV
guys, they don't feel their airplanes are all that good an IFR platform
(like the 601, too light on the controls). My pick for a useful CC plane
would be a Mooney 201 or Cessna 210, even though they both drive more like
trucks than sportscars!
Hope I haven't touched any nerves out there, just trying to provide
another perspective on why we fly airplanes.
Chuck Long, CFI
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I think part of what you are seeing is the natural variation in how long it
takes to build planes in general, i.e there are a number of folks who have
spent 4 years building a zodie.
I have a friend who had his RV8 kit done minus engine in 6 months...
RV's probably take longer overall because of the solid rivets...and there is
probably more rivets, I.e the RV is usually aerobatic and is therefore a
stronger airframe.
I have a friend with an RV 7...said it took 1200 hours...my HDS took 950
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: randall true [mailto:randtrue@yahoo.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: randall true <randtrue@yahoo.com>
Frank, you bring up a question for me and my lack of
airport hangout exposure. If the predrilled holes are
so helpfull on an RV, why does it take a year or two
to build a zenith, and 4 to 8 years for an RV? Those
seem to me to be typical numbers under the completion
pictures in my years of back issues of Kitplane.
Randall
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK
> (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I too have seen several RV's built. The quality of
> the kits is almost beyond
> belief, especially the quickbuilds. You don't even
> need a flat table, all
> the holes are predrilled and line up perfectly. The
> only holes that do NOT
> line up on my plane are the ones ZAC drilled!
>
> There are now a number of automotive conversions
> available for RV's too,
> although they tend to be unpopular, probably does
> not help the resale value.
>
> Lets face it even the slowest RV9 with a 118HP
> engine is about 50mph faster
> than any zodiac (at least excluding the XL).
>
> I have a friend who has built 3 RV's. Makes money on
> every one (excluding
> his labour).
>
> However, if your happy at cruising at 105 to 110mph
> on 4.8 GPH, the amount
> of gear you can get in a ZAC far outstrips any of
> the RV's. This is very
> important to me.
>
> Now if I could sell it for what I put into it I
> might build another plane.
>
> FWIW
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Mr. Laughlin:
>
> I, too, have made the same observation regarding
> what appears to be the
> greater popularity of the RV airplane over that of
> the Zenith line. It would
> appear to the outside observer that the RV line has
> something going for it
> that Zenith doesn't and I wish I knew what that
> "something" was. It
> certainly isn't cost and I say this because it is my understanding
> that building an RV is more expensive, overall, than
> building a Zenith. I don't
> think it is ease of construction for I have been
> told, by those who should
> know, that building an RV is more difficult. All
> this makes me wonder if the
> RV's popularity has to do with a belief that it is a
> better engineered
> airplane, with greater quality, when it comes to the
> parts and materials
> that make up the airplane? Or could it be that the
> RV line simply has more
> models available for sale than that of Zenith? All
> this is pure speculation
> on my part. However, it is very apparent that the RV
> is more popular as a
> kitplane given the numbers ou! t there and the
> "cottage industries" that
> have come into existence that provide after-market
> accessories for RV
> aircraft. In any case, it is to be sure that there
> must be some solid
> reasons for its popularity. I wish I knew what they
> are.
>
> D.J. Dormer
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List
> members.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>> the fact that I won't recuperate my investment should I sell the
plane is quite disturbing to me.
I've always gotten a kick out of the thinking that Aircraft are
investments. No one assumes a car is an investment. It is true the some
folks make money on their planes, but no one is really making money once
you put time, tools, etc. into the equation. The fact that there is a
substainal resale value for a homebuilt aircraft is actually pretty
amazing.
I also think the reasons the RVs tend to sell for more than the base
cost is because there isn't any current inexpensive ceritifed birds that
have similar performance and cost numbers. So a non-builder can pick up
a RV aircraft that is much faster than most of the SPAM cans out there
for the same or a lot less than a typical SPAM can. With the Zodiac
being relatively slow and using engines that are typically less popular
it's harder for the buyer to justify not just buying a used C152 or
whatever with similar performance figures and getting a certificated
engine as well.
Don Honabach
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Frank,
>> I think part of what you are seeing is the natural variation in how
long it takes to build planes in general, i.e there are a number of
folks who have spent 4 years building a zodie.
I'm going on year 6 and still have at least another 6 to 12 months to
go. Sometimes life just gets in the way :)
Don
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Good point Don,
In fact considering that a good used 152 can be had for less than $20k, Vs
$30+ for the 601 and it gets real hard.
Mind you, with 100Hp the 152/172 owners think we have rocket ships when they
watch us take off!
Can hardly wait for my 135hp Soob conversion...:)
Frank
601HDS 300hours soob
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach [mailto:don@pcperfect.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Kit Planes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>> the fact that I won't recuperate my investment should I sell the
plane is quite disturbing to me.
I've always gotten a kick out of the thinking that Aircraft are investments.
No one assumes a car is an investment. It is true the some folks make money
on their planes, but no one is really making money once you put time, tools,
etc. into the equation. The fact that there is a substainal resale value for
a homebuilt aircraft is actually pretty amazing.
I also think the reasons the RVs tend to sell for more than the base cost is
because there isn't any current inexpensive ceritifed birds that have
similar performance and cost numbers. So a non-builder can pick up a RV
aircraft that is much faster than most of the SPAM cans out there for the
same or a lot less than a typical SPAM can. With the Zodiac being relatively
slow and using engines that are typically less popular it's harder for the
buyer to justify not just buying a used C152 or whatever with similar
performance figures and getting a certificated engine as well.
Don Honabach
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
List,
Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type aluminum spring gear?
I am not a big proponent of modifying from original designs, but it seems
like a considerably cleaner and easier installation. Any idea about the weight
difference between the two? Ground handling characteristics? Mounting location
and airframe modifications?
I have read about some of the difficulties of the "bungee box" installation
on some of your websites, and wondered how difficult it would be.
-Just thinking aloud.
Brandon Tucker
---------------------------------
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
List,
Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type aluminum spring gear?
I am not a big proponent of modifying from original designs, but it seems
like a considerably cleaner and easier installation. Any idea about the weight
difference between the two? Ground handling characteristics? Mounting location
and airframe modifications?
I have read about some of the difficulties of the "bungee box" installation
on some of your websites, and wondered how difficult it would be.
-Just thinking aloud.
Brandon Tucker
---------------------------------
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>In fact considering that a good used 152 can be had for less than $20k, Vs
>$30+ for the 601 and it gets real hard.
>Mind you, with 100Hp the 152/172 owners think we have rocket ships when
they
>watch us take off!
You can't even compare a CH601HDS or a CH601XL to a clunky old Cessna.
Faster climb, cruise, better payload, and half the fuel load, not to mention
more comfort. That's why I'm selling shares in the CH601XL, Alarus CH2000,
and CH640 at my flight school, but not in a Cessna.
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Faster cruise?...Are you sure about that?
Its been a while since I flew a 152 but I thought it did a little better
than the 110mph of the HDS (well of MY HDS anyway).
Even if it is faster, the point is its is similar (on paper at least) at
less money and the 152 does not APPEAR to lose value as fast.
At 2/3rds the price (and zero building time) it makes the 601 a tough
financial choice to many folks.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Polstra [mailto:ppolstra@mindspring.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Kit Planes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
--> <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>In fact considering that a good used 152 can be had for less than $20k,
>Vs $30+ for the 601 and it gets real hard. Mind you, with 100Hp the
>152/172 owners think we have rocket ships when
they
>watch us take off!
You can't even compare a CH601HDS or a CH601XL to a clunky old Cessna.
Faster climb, cruise, better payload, and half the fuel load, not to mention
more comfort. That's why I'm selling shares in the CH601XL, Alarus CH2000,
and CH640 at my flight school, but not in a Cessna.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>Faster cruise?...Are you sure about that?
>Its been a while since I flew a 152 but I thought it did a little better
>than the 110mph of the HDS (well of MY HDS anyway).
I've got hundreds of hours in 152's. They normally only cruise at 90 kts,
or 105 mph. So even if your HDS is a bit slower than mine was (120-130 mph)
it will still beat the 152.
>Even if it is faster, the point is its is similar (on paper at least) at
>less money and the 152 does not APPEAR to lose value as fast.
That's only because all 152's are old and have already depreciated away most
of their value. A later model 152 can run you over $30k, and it is still 20
years old.
>At 2/3rds the price (and zero building time) it makes the 601 a tough
>financial choice to many folks.
It depends on how old you go on the 152. In order to get something below
$20k, you are most likely looking at a 150, or a 152 with nasty radios
and/or high time engine. I would never recommend anyone to build an
airplane soley to save money. You can't buy a new 152, but you can buy a
new factory built CH601XL if you don't have the time or desire to build.
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Cowling looks great Michel Kinda the Rollie - Pollie - Ollie - Zodie
I Love it.
Mark Townsend
601XL EA-82 MPFI Turbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: Zenith-List: Some updates...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
do not archive
A few things. I successfully made the openings on my
cowling this week. The process is shown on my updated
web site for those of you who are interested. Thanks
to all that provided ideas for this!
I also installed the labels for the switches and
placards on my inst. panel. I used the technique
described on the RV Journal and I'm very satisfied
with the result. This is shown on my instruments
panel finishing page.
About the cowling and canopy... I'm finishing the
cowling (put micro balloon on it today) and the
canopy... ordered additional weatherstrip from ZAC
after a mistake I've made practicing the glueing
techniques... I don't know when I'll update the web
site with the associated details.
Thanks again to all who helped me on these things!
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: New Completions - Kit Planes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> Frank,
>
> >> I think part of what you are seeing is the natural variation in how
> long it takes to build planes in general, i.e there are a number of
> folks who have spent 4 years building a zodie.
>
> I'm going on year 6 and still have at least another 6 to 12 months to
> go. Sometimes life just gets in the way :)
>
> Don
>
Frank and Don,
Life should get in the way, just as moving too fast on a project
just takes the joy out of it. The 601 is an ideal aircraft construction
for either kit or scratch builder. I know of some RV builders
having to make more than one to be able to keep the last one without
a mortgage. That philosophy plays into a rush to get there and they
soon tire of the intense effort. I'm going into 4th year of 601
construction
and still look forward to each process and progress.
Larry McFarland
Message 22
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| Subject: | The movement of radiator and coolant |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
List,
We've discussed aspects of the radiators being
placed back where perhaps they should be, but has
anyone slowed down the coolant to get a reading
on the engine temps after actually doing it?
The thermostat has some part to play in this, but
is there any data that suggests slower coolant is
more effective at the Cyl Head Temps?
Larry McFarland - Stratus Subaru - 601 hds
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: HDS spring gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type
> aluminum spring gear?
> Any idea about the weight difference between the two?
The only thing I can speak to is the weight issue, being that I'm
building an XL. And I'll tell you - I was surprised at how much that
spring gear weighs! It's a monster. I suppose it has to be in order to be
structurally sound -- but lifting that thing in place -- it almost seems
to weight as much as the empty fuselage itself. I could be wrong -- but
it's heavy!
Mike Fortunato
601XL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> $30+ for the 601
Sorry -- couldn't let that slip by! You sure about that?
Mike Fortunato
601XL (hoping it'll be worth that much, even though it's not for sale)
do not archive
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Importing a Kit to Australia, cost,tax,gst,customs. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: hans blohm <hansblohm@controlelectronics.com.au>
I imported a 601XL complete kit to Sydney 18 months ago. I used a transport
company I found in Airsport (CH Freight). You wont have to pay import
duty or bother with quarantine, but there are plenty of other expenses.
After several months waiting for ZAC to complete the kit the shipment took 3
weeks to Sydney. Then another 7 days through customs before they would let me
have it. You will probably pay several thousand for transport and insurance.
When it gets here the government will want 10% of whatever you paid for the
kit for GST. You can't get aroud this as customs won't clear it until you do.
Then you will have to hire a truck to transport the crate from customs to you.
If you buy the complete kit, it will arrive in a very large crate (8' x 4' x
4') weighing about 900lbs. You will need a large truck and possibly a crane
to unload it at your place. In Sydney these trucks are hard to hire, they
don't like picking up from customs because they have to wait around all day,
and they are expensive.
In my case the truck wouldn't fit down the driveway so I had the driver leave
the crate on the footpath. It took several hours to unpack and carry
everything into the workshop.
It's an expensive exercise, but once it arrives you soon forget about the
money.
Halfway there.
--
Hans Blohm
Control Electronics
79 Alan Road
Berowra Heights NSW 2082
Phone: 02 9456 0736
Email: hansblohm@controlelectronics.com.au
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:53 am, abc abc wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: abc abc <yah67890@yahoo.com>
>
> Has anyone had experience importing a kit to Australia?.
> I am thinking about the handling charges ,customs,import duty, sales tax,
> storage, quarantine, gst, shipping time. Did you have a broker?, Cost? and
> Problems?.
> Any sites that may be useful?.
> Many thanks
> Tony
>
>
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
FYI,
I used Visio to do my panel labels with these stickers and was very
happy. Visio give you a CAD like capability to layout the lables so one
sticker can have many labels. This is particularly good when you have a
bank of switches close together. You can see what I mean in this picture
of my panel:
http://www.iprules.com/plane/insideview.jpg
______________________
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ
______________________
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Some updates...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I used Excel, but I did not use mailing labels. The
05665 sheet are full sheet stickers.
--- Gary Liming <gary@liming.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Michel,
>
> What software did you use to make the labels? I've
> tried Word, since it
> knows the label numbers, but I can't seem to
> position the lettering like
> I'd like to.
>
> Gary
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes they are,
I was at arlington this last W/E and picked up a Cessna spring gear...Almost
got a hernia. Now this company was offering titanium gears which are about
2/3rds the weight.
Still heavy though. I'm doubtful the spring gear saves weight over the old
bungee cord design. I think they are used more for simplicity and reduced
factory labour time.
I can also tell you the old style works very well. I landed on a runway
consisting of ploughruts and BIG rocks. At almost gross weight the little
ZAC just skipped right over them.
I have noticed some wear on the gearbox lowers though, probably just my
nylon spacer worn out.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: wizard-24@juno.com [mailto:wizard-24@juno.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HDS spring gear
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> Have any HD or HDS builders looked into using an XL type
> aluminum spring gear?
> Any idea about the weight difference between the two?
The only thing I can speak to is the weight issue, being that I'm building
an XL. And I'll tell you - I was surprised at how much that spring gear
weighs! It's a monster. I suppose it has to be in order to be structurally
sound -- but lifting that thing in place -- it almost seems to weight as
much as the empty fuselage itself. I could be wrong -- but it's heavy!
Mike Fortunato
601XL
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web
up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 28
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "No 6" <drshr@hotmail.com>
The RV bunch are jealous of the Zodiac which is a better plane in many ways
and a fraction the cost.
Keep them OUT!
----Original Message Follows----
From: Norman Turner <normsflighttraining@bigpond.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Kit Planes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Norman Turner
<normsflighttraining@bigpond.com>
Hi all on the list, Hey girls and guys lets keep the ZENITH LIST for all of
us who are flying or building ZENITH aircraft . If the RV's builders or /
and flyers wish to comment on RV's then do it on your web site not on the
ZENITH site. It is in my personal opinion that this site is for the builders
and flyers of ZENITHS benefit that we all communicate on this site to better
our knowledge and ensure that others who follow in our footsteps learn by
our experiences and not try to re-invent the wheel, Just my opinion! I
personally have met many new friends from this site and have learned so much
the my little brain is working overtime continually. At the first chance I
get, this bucket of electrons is turned on so I can read the latest news on
zenith tips and how to doo's and not to doo's . All I can say is I'm a
ZODIAC 601 HDS flyer (not builder) and I am very proud of it,I have also
been the test person for a kit built 701 built in W.A. Australia then flew
it across the dese!
st to Ali
to the owner, it is a job I do with pride and faith in Zenith aircraft.
This site is just great for information on any subject on ZENITH aircraft ,
wether it is to do with building or mods to your pet zenith. My thoughts
,and I might add the ZAC factory are always happy to answer any questions
you may have no matter how silly you may think they are ( boy!!! have I
asked some stupid questions in the past) and received very constructive
answers( with no malice), Cheers to all from a very happy zodiac 601 hds
rotax 912/ 232hrs flyer @ 16 lph fuel consumption and 90kts thanks ZAC. Norm
Turner CFI Top End Ultralight Club Northern Territory Australia. Do not
archive.
Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra Jetstream @
http://www.xtra.co.nz/products/0,,5803,00.html !
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Some updates... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
Cowling looks great Michel Kinda the Rollie - Pollie - Ollie - Zodie
I Love it.
Ever see the cartoon "JJ the jet plane". Paint a couple of eyebrows on it and
you will have one of the characters. My wife loved it!
Jack Russell
Clovis CA
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ramperf@aol.com
Frank
I take it your guides didn't fall out?
Ron
Message 31
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| Subject: | Drilling wing skins - 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@comcast.net>
Fellow listers,
I'm to the point of drilling my wing skins.... finally! I have clamped the
top rear skin flush with the rear channel. I have drilled and clecoed the
pilot holes through the rear channel. The manual says to work from rear to
front.
Question: Do I A. Work span wise e.g. drill RR1 - hole 1; RR2 - hole 1; RR3
- hole 1; etc or B: Drill all of RR1 then RR2, RR3, RR4, etc.
In the manual, 6-W-8 pg 7 (Revision 3 - 1/22/03) they tell you to work span
wise on the bottom rear skin. Just wondering if I should do the same with
the top rear skin.
Thanks for any advice.
Mark Stauffer
601 XL N996XL (Reserved)
Tail completed, aileron and flaps completed.
Working on the hard wing!! ;-)
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Some updates... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
I'm right behind you on the panel Michel. Should be printing my decals
in the next week or two. Thanks for the tip :
)
http://www.lightflyers.com/wires.jpg
Rick P.
Michel Therrien wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> I used Excel, but I did not use mailing labels. The
> 05665 sheet are full sheet stickers.
>
> --- Gary Liming <gary@liming.org> wrote:
>
>>Hi Michel,
>>
>>What software did you use to make the labels? I've
>>tried Word, since it
>>knows the label numbers, but I can't seem to
>>position the lettering like
>>I'd like to.
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>
>
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | RV popularity... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
..
> Lets face it even the slowest RV9 with a 118HP engine is about 50mph faster
> than any zodiac (at least excluding the XL).
I suspect the speed is a big factor that makes people lean towards the RV.
I also suspect that many recreational pilots buy more airplane than they can
comfortably handle.
A friend and professional pilot at the local airport keeps his hand into
instructing and checking out people on various aircraft, and last summer he
checked out two guys who'd finished their RVs. One took a few hours but
eventually was considered safe to let loose (he had been flying a C-170
tailwheeler while building so was still pretty current). The other fellow
hadn't been flying, was getting on in years (hey - I have gray hair too and
I'm discovering how the carbon-based computer between my ears slows down
when least desired! ;-). After several hours of checking, my colleague
still didn't consider him competent to send solo. Any lapse of attention
during a circuit would see the aircraft rapidly loosing altitude and
building speed in the beginnings of a spiral -- it's a very clean aircraft
aerodynamically! I haven't heard the latested update on this one yet...
My point is simply this - most recreational pilots only fly a few hours a
year - life is busy - we never get as much flying time as we dream we're
going to. AND WE AIN'T GETTIN' ANY YOUNGER! I know way too many who scare
themselves (and bystanders !) when the take their annual flight on aircraft
that are just too much for them.
The beauty of the 601 and 701, is that by keeping it simple, there is still
a wonderful tradeoff of performace (speed or STOL) versus ease of handling.
I suspect that the average Zenair builder will get a lot more fun and fewer
frights from his finished aircraft. Just my suspicion!
NOTE: this is IN NO WAY MEANT TO SLAM all the highly-qualified,
professionally-oriented recreational pilots on this list!!! ;-).
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 34
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| Subject: | Drilling wing skins - 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
I worked from the center out to minimize the oil caning or puckering.
Dave
Airworthiness Certification issued on 7/14/03.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark
Stauffer
Subject: Zenith-List: Drilling wing skins - 601 XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
<mark.stauffer@comcast.net>
Fellow listers,
I'm to the point of drilling my wing skins.... finally! I have clamped the
top rear skin flush with the rear channel. I have drilled and clecoed the
pilot holes through the rear channel. The manual says to work from rear to
front.
Question: Do I A. Work span wise e.g. drill RR1 - hole 1; RR2 - hole 1; RR3
- hole 1; etc or B: Drill all of RR1 then RR2, RR3, RR4, etc.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: RV popularity... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" <perrymorrison@yahoo.com>
Grant,
I think some self-examination is useful in any major life "commitment" whether
it's career, house or the aircraft you're going to spend several years building.
Too much aviation is dream driven. Dreams are great unless reality turns them
into nightmares. Unfortunately, most of us don't confront our own realities enough
because it can be a bit of a disappointment. But it's still essential nonetheless.
A lot of the RV crowd see themselves doing long trips all the time with an aviation
mad spouse or SO in the right seat while they spend their well financed retirement
flitting
from one exotic location to the next.
Quite often the build time stretches to eternity, the spouse never catches the
flying fever
needed for the right hand seat, money gets tight as other demands beckon. Even
when it's built, it's hard to find the time for long trips. Money issues make pressing
the starter button a painful experience and a quick calculation of the opportunity
cost of having THAT much capital tied up in an RV that only YOU fly on the occasional
weekend makes you blanche.
Its worse if the plane you sacrificed so much for turns out to be one that you
can't fly or just never fly because it doesn't fit in with the rest of your life
either
timewise or moneywise or both.
Of course, if you have money by the truckload, then none of this matters a toss.
But
if you don't, then it's a genuine tragedy.
So, yes I agree that people can buy "too much airplane", but this is just one aspect
of poor self examination.
At the end of the day, flying a plane that's 50% of your dream is a helluva lot
better than
having nothing but 100% of the same old dream or even worse, a dream that turned
into
a nightmare all by itself.
Best
Perry Morrison
Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
..
> Lets face it even the slowest RV9 with a 118HP engine is about 50mph faster
> than any zodiac (at least excluding the XL).
I suspect the speed is a big factor that makes people lean towards the RV.
I also suspect that many recreational pilots buy more airplane than they can
comfortably handle.
A friend and professional pilot at the local airport keeps his hand into
instructing and checking out people on various aircraft, and last summer he
checked out two guys who'd finished their RVs. One took a few hours but
eventually was considered safe to let loose (he had been flying a C-170
tailwheeler while building so was still pretty current). The other fellow
hadn't been flying, was getting on in years (hey - I have gray hair too and
I'm discovering how the carbon-based computer between my ears slows down
when least desired! ;-). After several hours of checking, my colleague
still didn't consider him competent to send solo. Any lapse of attention
during a circuit would see the aircraft rapidly loosing altitude and
building speed in the beginnings of a spiral -- it's a very clean aircraft
aerodynamically! I haven't heard the latested update on this one yet...
My point is simply this - most recreational pilots only fly a few hours a
year - life is busy - we never get as much flying time as we dream we're
going to. AND WE AIN'T GETTIN' ANY YOUNGER! I know way too many who scare
themselves (and bystanders !) when the take their annual flight on aircraft
that are just too much for them.
The beauty of the 601 and 701, is that by keeping it simple, there is still
a wonderful tradeoff of performace (speed or STOL) versus ease of handling.
I suspect that the average Zenair builder will get a lot more fun and fewer
frights from his finished aircraft. Just my suspicion!
NOTE: this is IN NO WAY MEANT TO SLAM all the highly-qualified,
professionally-oriented recreational pilots on this list!!! ;-).
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
__________________________
Dr. Perry Morrison
Morrison Associates Pty Ltd
+61 08 89 88 4617
0408892638
perrymorrison@yahoo.com
__________________________
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| Subject: | Re:New Completions - Kit Planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles <brentbattles@charter.net>
You don't have to be a Kitplanes subscriber to have your airplane
appear in the completions pages. I had mine published in late 2000 as
I recall and all they wanted was a brief text entry and either 2 or 3
different non-returnable photographs among which they would select the
one for publication. My motivation for submitting - beyond Nicholas's
suggestion to do so - was based largely on getting the word out about
Zodiacs and spreading my enthusiasm.
Regards,
Brent Battles N16BZ 601HD Rotax 912
By the way, I have a new website with a domain name supplied by my
daughter:
http://www.flappingpappy.com/zodiac/hangar.html
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