---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/03/03: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:03 AM - Re: Electric flaps 701 (Don Gordon) 2. 04:08 AM - Re: Cylinder Head Temp Sensor (Michel Therrien) 3. 04:11 AM - Re: Air Venture 2003 - I'm back (Michel Therrien) 4. 04:43 AM - Re: Air Venture 2003 - I'm a Sport Pilot (RoyN9869L@aol.com) 5. 07:02 AM - Notes from the Oshkosh Builder's Dinner - 2003 (Jeff & Marcia Davidson) 6. 01:02 PM - Fuel tank outlet - 701 (H. Robert Schoenberger) 7. 04:40 PM - Fuel Gage - 701 (H. Robert Schoenberger) 8. 05:07 PM - Re: Fuel tank outlet - 701 (Larry McFarland) 9. 05:18 PM - Re: Fuel Gage - 701 (Larry McFarland) 10. 05:37 PM - Re: Fuel Gage - 701 (Rick Pitcher) 11. 05:48 PM - Re: Notes from the Oshkosh Builder's Dinner - 2003 (Michael Stempf) 12. 09:00 PM - Re: Fuel Gage - 701 (Chuck Deiterich) 13. 10:24 PM - Progress report (Randall Stout) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:28 AM PST US From: "Don Gordon" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Electric flaps 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Gordon" yep I've gone with an electric flap got a flap actuator out of a old Jaguar fighter very light and powerful 150kg force weights less than the crome molly flap arm it is replacing now need to get some form of indication of setting I liked the idea of the potentiometer mentioned on the list Don ----- Original Message ----- From: thought about building, an electric flap control for the 701? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:20 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cylinder Head Temp Sensor --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien I don't have a really good answer to this as I'm fairly new to engine mechanics... but I remember GRT telling me that if I can't use the sender attached to the sparkplug, they would exchange them with another one that can be attached to a head stud. They ended up fitting very well on the spark plug and I'm sure that GRT will exchange them at no cost for you if you want to install them there. There was a thread on Airsoob a while ago where several people claimed there was no reason to use CHT sensors. One made mention that CHT sensor could show a problem with coolant (if you lose coolant, it would take more time for coolant temp to go high than it would for CHT to go high). I did not reflect much on the validity of this... I just installed the sensors I got. Michel --- Larry McFarland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > List, > Can anyone tell me what the alternative location for > a CHT sensor > is for the Subaru? I'm told the spark plug is the > most frequently used > but my EIS from Grand Rapids Technologies came with > two 10mm sensors > and I'm not sure if the reading would even be the > same with the sensor at the side > or the end of the engine heads as they suggest. > Especially appreciate hearing from Subaru owners on > this one. > Thanks, > Larry McFarland - 601hds (wiring the engine). > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:17 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Air Venture 2003 - I'm back --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien I did'nt look at that at all. Being Canadian, I'm not much affected by that Sport Pilot thing. In Canada, we have a "Recreational Pilot" category which I think ressembles what that Sport Pilot would be. A Recreational Pilot can fly with a passenger, but cannot have any annotation to his license. I think most people in Canada pursue the private pilot license anyway unless they go for an Ultralight license (some Canadians could comment on that?). --- RoyN9869L@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: RoyN9869L@aol.com > > Hi Michael, > > While you were at AirVenture what was said about the > proposed Sport Pilot > Category? I haven't heard a word on this site, just > wondering if this is ever > going to materialize, Thanks and Cheers > > Roger > CH-701 > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:24 AM PST US From: RoyN9869L@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Air Venture 2003 - I'm a Sport Pilot --> Zenith-List message posted by: RoyN9869L@aol.com Thanks for the great news Jon, Cheers Roger CH-701 (Finally finished) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:08 AM PST US From: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" Subject: Zenith-List: Notes from the Oshkosh Builder's Dinner - 2003 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" As he has said he would for several years now, Chris Heintz announced at the Zenair builder's dinner that he would be taking a smaller role in the business side of Zenith. He indicated that, for instance, he would only attend a day or so of next year's AirVenture just to talk to friends and builders. He pointed out that "his boys" were well positioned to carry on the business without him. He seemed to indicate that his designing days may continue, however he didn't elaborate on that. There was a second speaker, George, that discussed the heartening story of the 701 built by junior high school students. They have just received a donation of an engine so the students' project will fly. Chris indicated that there are somewhere around 2000 flying Zeniths around the world in about 50 different countries. At the dinner I had a great opportunity to meet other builders including Pat Stafford, Ed Kramer and his wife Jan, Mark Townsend, David Barth, and Rick Herndon. My wife had a long discussion with Matthew Heintz. The sound system at Robbins was very poor. As others have noted, Zenith homebuilts were very hard to find on the field. I found none. This was strange after so many were at Sun-n-Fun. At the Zenith display, there was an XL fuselage demonstrating the conventional gear (tail dragger) and dual stick options. There was also a 640 on display. No mention of a CH152, the Gemini, or the like. Jeff Davidson ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:26 PM PST US From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel tank outlet - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" List . . . I'm at the point of installing my first wing tank in the right wing (701). When I try to screw the finger filter fitting into the lower corner of the tank, I'm meeting a lot of resistance. I finally turned it in about 2/3rds before the force became too great to the point where II was worried about breaking a weld. I turned it out (it came out easily) and examined the threads under a magnifier. There is no evidence of cross-stripping. I thought maybe in the welding of this femail fitting into the corner of the tank, the fitting deformed ever so slightly. Would it be okay to use some sort of lubrication oil or will this screw up the sealant when the fitting is permanently set? Did any of you have this problem? This all happened when I tried to do a surgical glove air test for weld leaks. The glove was installed over the filler inlet and sealed with a tight rubber band. I thought this test would be a simple process, but the little red caps in the outlet holes proved not to be tight. It was then I installed the above fitting. I don't think I have any leaks except around the outlet holes and I assume this will be fixed with some sort of sealant at final assembly. Would it be all right to install teflon tape on the threads of the outlet fittings just to seal them for testing and then remove the tape? Thanks for your help. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail completed, working on right wing. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:31 PM PST US From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Gage - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" List . . . it was one of those frustrating days when everything I seemed to touch turned to baloney. First the fuel tank testing procedure did not go well (the fittings did not fit well and leaked (see this afternoon's email call for help). Next I decided to mount the fuel sender in the fuel tank. It recommended that the sender be tested in conjuction with the actual fuel gage which I found in a small cardboard box. There were no instructions for wiring the gage in the box, the sender float unit did not have any instructions other than how to mount the sender in the tanks and a recommendation to test it with the fuel gage, the 701 manual references a visual fuel line which I assume must have been for the old header tank, and I don't find any wiring diagrams in the plans. What am I missing and where do I find it? I checked the Tony Bingulas (?sp) book I have and there wasn't much specific to the above. I know nothing about electricity and wiring. Where can I find this type of information? Is there a good reference book available? Thanks for your help. Frustrated Hap Schoenberger 701 - working on right wing. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:09 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank outlet - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel tank outlet - 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" > > List . . . I'm at the point of installing my first wing tank in the right wing (701). When I try to screw the finger filter fitting into the lower corner of the tank, I'm meeting a lot of resistance. I finally turned it in about 2/3rds before the force became too great to the point where II was worried about breaking a weld. I turned it out (it came out easily) and examined the threads under a magnifier. There is no evidence of cross-stripping. I thought maybe in the welding of this femail fitting into the corner of the tank, the fitting deformed ever so slightly. Would it be okay to use some sort of lubrication oil or will this screw up the sealant when the fitting is permanently set? Did any of you have this problem? > > This all happened when I tried to do a surgical glove air test for weld leaks. The glove was installed over the filler inlet and sealed with a tight rubber band. I thought this test would be a simple process, but the little red caps in the outlet holes proved not to be tight. It was then I installed the above fitting. I don't think I have any leaks except around the outlet holes and I assume this will be fixed with some sort of sealant at final assembly. > > Would it be all right to install teflon tape on the threads of the outlet fittings just to seal them for testing and then remove the tape? Thanks for your help. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail completed, working on right wing. > H.R.S., I originally welded the threaded fitting to a piece of angle to serve as corner and draw heat in final welding, and avoid distortion, but like you, I also had the difficulty of tightening finger strainers in my tanks and again, in my header tank, the elbow fittings. This is a 601hds, but the problem's the same. I had to run a NPT tap through to be sure there weren't any loose parts in there and use AntiSeize compound to secure the fittings to avoid galling the threads. Tightening the threads to something just short of the low-side of the torques given in the Standard Aircraft Handbook with AntiSeize should be adequate. Larry McFarland ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:01 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Gage - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Gage - 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" > > List . . . it was one of those frustrating days when everything I seemed to touch turned to baloney. First the fuel tank testing procedure did not go well (the fittings did not fit well and leaked (see this afternoon's email call for help). Next I decided to mount the fuel sender in the fuel tank. It recommended that the sender be tested in conjuction with the actual fuel gage which I found in a small cardboard box. There were no instructions for wiring the gage in the box, the sender float unit did not have any instructions other than how to mount the sender in the tanks and a recommendation to test it with the fuel gage, the 701 manual references a visual fuel line which I assume must have been for the old header tank, and I don't find any wiring diagrams in the plans. What am I missing and where do I find it? > > I checked the Tony Bingulas (?sp) book I have and there wasn't much specific to the above. I know nothing about electricity and wiring. Where can I find this type of information? Is there a good reference book available? Thanks for your help. Frustrated Hap Schoenberger 701 - working on right wing. > Hap, The Bengilis book Firewall Forward has a good bit on hooking up specific items, but the best electrical references that can be had for the electrically deficient we share is a manual called The AeroElectric Connection by Bob Nuckolls, obtained at a web site of the same name. A growing archive of electrical info is also available at the Aeroelectric Connection site within this Matronics List. Larry ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:48 PM PST US From: Rick Pitcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Gage - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher H. Robert Schoenberger wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" > > List . . . it was one of those frustrating days when everything I seemed to touch turned to baloney. First the fuel tank testing procedure did not go well (the fittings did not fit well and leaked (see this afternoon's email call for help). Next I decided to mount the fuel sender in the fuel tank. It recommended that the sender be tested in conjuction with the actual fuel gage which I found in a small cardboard box. There were no instructions for wiring the gage in the box, the sender float unit did not have any instructions other than how to mount the sender in the tanks and a recommendation to test it with the fuel gage, the 701 manual references a visual fuel line which I assume must have been for the old header tank, and I don't find any wiring diagrams in the plans. What am I missing and where do I find it? > > I checked the Tony Bingulas (?sp) book I have and there wasn't much specific to the above. I know nothing about electricity and wiring. Where can I find this type of information? Is there a good reference book available? Thanks for your help. Frustrated Hap Schoenberger 701 - working on right wing. > If that's the same gauge that came with the wing kit I bought, there's 3 posts on the back of the gauge. The (S) post gets wired to the fuel level sender, the (+) post goes to 12 volts poitive, and the (-) post goes to 12 volts negative (ground). Rick P. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:46 PM PST US From: "Michael Stempf" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Notes from the Oshkosh Builder's Dinner - 2003 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Stempf" I saw 2 601 and at 2 or 3 701s. It was a good time and I was glad to meet other builders (there were quite a few). I talked with Chris about the Gemini - it is being put back together now (I believe with new engines). Michael 601XL (on the wings now) N4XL -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff & Marcia Davidson Subject: Zenith-List: Notes from the Oshkosh Builder's Dinner - 2003 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" As he has said he would for several years now, Chris Heintz announced at the Zenair builder's dinner that he would be taking a smaller role in the business side of Zenith. He indicated that, for instance, he would only attend a day or so of next year's AirVenture just to talk to friends and builders. He pointed out that "his boys" were well positioned to carry on the business without him. He seemed to indicate that his designing days may continue, however he didn't elaborate on that. There was a second speaker, George, that discussed the heartening story of the 701 built by junior high school students. They have just received a donation of an engine so the students' project will fly. Chris indicated that there are somewhere around 2000 flying Zeniths around the world in about 50 different countries. At the dinner I had a great opportunity to meet other builders including Pat Stafford, Ed Kramer and his wife Jan, Mark Townsend, David Barth, and Rick Herndon. My wife had a long discussion with Matthew Heintz. The sound system at Robbins was very poor. As others have noted, Zenith homebuilts were very hard to find on the field. I found none. This was strange after so many were at Sun-n-Fun. At the Zenith display, there was an XL fuselage demonstrating the conventional gear (tail dragger) and dual stick options. There was also a 640 on display. No mention of a CH152, the Gemini, or the like. Jeff Davidson ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:01 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Gage - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Hap, Check my site http://members.thegateway.net/cfd and look under wing tanks and also fuel system. When I get back to the hanger I will make a copy of my sender wiring diagram and send it to you directly. Chuck D. N701TX > > I checked the Tony Bingulas (?sp) book I have and there wasn't much specific to the above. I know nothing about electricity and wiring. Where can I find this type of information? Is there a good reference book available? Thanks for your help. Frustrated Hap Schoenberger 701 - working on right wing. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:03 PM PST US From: "Randall Stout" Subject: Zenith-List: Progress report --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Stout" Hey All Today is the day that I considered my Zodiac to be finished. I had my final EAA inspection last Friday and today I finished up what the Tech Advisor ask me to. I got the weight and balance done this weekend. It weighs in at 690 lbs. Empty CG is at 246.8 mm using the leading edge of the wing for a datum line. I can't get to the forward limit unless I have a full load of fuel and get out. That ain't happening. To exceed the rearward CG, it would take over 80 lbs. in the rear, no gas, and my wife and I in the plane. I took the plane out on the runway this evening. This is not the first time I have done this, but it was the first time with everything in place. In the past, I was very careful to not go very fast, but today I was a bit more daring. I went through runup and everything, just like I was going to fly. Then I throttled up to about 3000 and released the brakes. I didn't actually time it, but seemed like it took maybe 3 seconds and I was looking at 30 mph. This thing accelerates real fast and I didn't even use full throttle. I have this feeling that the takeoff run is going to be real short. This week, I'll try to get all the paperwork in order and schedule the Airworthiness Inspection. I'm excited! Randy Stout - San Antonio TX CH601HD N282RS n282rs@sbcglobal.net http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21