Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:07 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac xl (Frank Jones)
2. 05:25 AM - engines (ronnie wehba)
3. 06:21 AM - Battery Requirement for Jab 3300 (charles.long@gm.com)
4. 06:43 AM - Re: Roll-Bar (dan john)
5. 08:38 AM - Re: Roll-Bar (Gary Gower)
6. 09:30 AM - Re: Roll-Bar (Thomas F Marson)
7. 10:47 AM - 701 and Corvair... (Bima, Martin)
8. 12:07 PM - Re: Roll-Bar (Steve Dixon)
9. 12:10 PM - 701 glide speed. (Chuck Deiterich)
10. 12:34 PM - Re: Rudder hinge plates 701 (Johann)
11. 03:56 PM - Rotax 912 filter capacitor (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
12. 04:21 PM - Re: revits (Monty Graves)
13. 06:52 PM - 601 fairings under hstab (Frank Jones)
14. 07:24 PM - Re: Roll-Bar (Jeff Reuschle)
15. 07:24 PM - Re: engines (Brett Ray)
16. 09:16 PM - Re: 601 fairings under hstab (Carlos Sa)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
I did my wings tail and fuse in the basement. I cleco'd the fuse and
undid it to get it out. The wings were a tight fit but they made it up
the stairs. I suggest making a wooden mockup of the wings and carrying
them up the stairs first if there is any doubt.
Frank 601XL 912S
Ottawa
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
besides the larger rotax what are the better choices of engines for the 701? anyone
using anything from raven redrives"geo,suzuki? thanks
Message 3
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| Subject: | Battery Requirement for Jab 3300 |
9, 2003) at 01/05/2004 09:20:48 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
Was looking for info on the Battery size needed for the Jab 3300
engine. I'm looking at the Recombinant Gas 17 amp-hour battery. Is this
enough cranking power? When looking through the installation pac from Zac,
it looked liked they had a huge battery mounted to the firewall.
Thanks
Chuck Long
N601LE, 85% complete
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
Tom,C.Hiller died from drowning.He was taxiing with
the canopy open when the plane flipped over and landed
in a deep puddle of water.They coulden`t get to him in
time to save him.A really freak accident.A role bar
woulden`t have helped. John P.
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Yes Tom,
But is comparing a VW with a Kenworth! What is the empty weight of a
Seafury? Compared with the 601 even a roll bar will be colapsed with
the weight of the Seafury.
Also you are proving correct in our thought: "...the plane flipped in
SLOW MOTION and landed upside down..."
This is how 99% of the roll overs happen in airplanes, I have
witnessed two of them, diferent ocasions, over 25 years, one Cessna
172 ( a was co-owner) and an Aeronca. The 172 almost stoped vertical in
the propeller, we thought it was going back to his wheels when she
continued slowly her "show", both planes were rebuilt and the 3
persons, (pilot and copilot , also c-owners) in the 172 and the sole
pilot in the Aeronca came out with out a scratch, Spectacular but
completly "safe", Kids dont try this at your airport :-) :-).
Once more, with the weight of the 601 the normal structure will be more
than enough protection for the pilot. Faster roll over speed will not
be a landing, but a serious Crash!
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Thomas F Marson <tmarson@pressenter.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
> <tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
> A highly experienced member of he Eagles aerobatic team flew with
> them from
> the beginning until the act broke up after 25 years. Next year he
> was
> flying a Seafury that he had outfitted for his new airshow act.
>
> A normal landing and the right brake locked up. The plane flipped
> over in
> slowmotion and landed upside down.
>
> He had taken the roll bar out previously. The canopy and the tail
> assy
> were not enough to save him. He was held ok in his seat belt and
> shoulder
> belt but he died because of the collapsed canopy and No rollover
> structure.
> I would want one on any plane that had no substantial pilot
> protection
> structure.
>
> Tom Marson.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll-Bar
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> >
> > Well, from a cost/benefit perspective, that's the most persuasive
> argument
> > so far. I think I'll forego the rollbar.
> > Here's hoping you're ok. Thanks for the post.
> > BobMiller
> >
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Hi,
Charlie Hilliard was reported by EAA as to have died from asphixiation
when his neck was bent double by the weight of the airplane. This is the
offical I believe. The inital reports and finals I saw said nothing about a
puddle as far as I know. If I have it correct the roll bar definitely would
have saved him. If you have offical report of other (including drowning and
a Puddle ) that is different of course.
I know he was not taxiing. He was on his landing roll with the tail up when
a brake locked up. Witness' said they saw smoke coming from the tire as the
wheel skidded. The plane swerved to the side of the locked brake and
overturned on the edge of the runway. This is the report as I know it. If
am wrong Ok but that is what I think I do know. A roll bar is a good thing.
Vans aircraft and most military aircraft a prime examples of planes that
have roll bars. Planes do end up on their backs.
I too am thinking of building a 601XL, if I do I will try to build a roll
bar. Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "dan john" <ballmell@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll-Bar
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
>
> Tom,C.Hiller died from drowning.He was taxiing with
> the canopy open when the plane flipped over and landed
> in a deep puddle of water.They coulden`t get to him in
> time to save him.A really freak accident.A role bar
> woulden`t have helped. John P.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | 701 and Corvair... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
With all due respect to more experienced engine and airframe people I submit
the following...
There are a number (3 that I know of) that are building 701's with Vair
power.
The fact is (at least in Canada) that this will not be an ultralight or
advance ultralight because of the design changes from the original plans and
the factory does not support this engine (the main reason they do not
support it is because they have not flown it - but they do list builders
with heavier engines on their "completions" web page). It must be
registered as an amateur built aircraft - which gives you some leeway in the
area of gross weight and other factors.
Within 50 miles of my garage there are 2 701's flying and 4 more being
built, but no two with the same power plant. The engines are R582, R912,
R-912U (I think), C-200, Hirth (100 hp, 3-banger), and a Corvair. Let's
here it for diversity!
A Continental 200 weighs about the same as the Vair yet many builders chose
it and fly it.
A Soob weighs more than the Vair yet many builders choose it and fly it.
I have calculated the weight and balance (on paper) with 680 lbs empty
weight (this may be overly conservative on the heavy side by 15 to 25 lbs),
big battery in the back, 2 FAA sized people, 130 lbs of gas (2 full tanks),
and 24 lbs of sandwiches and pop in the basket. It comes out to 70 lbs over
the factory's 1100 gross (so the g-limit is 5.6 rather than 6) and the
balance is bang-on in the middle (not a lawn dart). Take out the cargo and
some gas and you are at 1100 lbs.
Bottom line is if I win the lottery tomorrow, I will either purchase and
install a R-914T and put the Vair in an airboat or buy that Beaver (the big
STOL plane) on the river. Until then I am slowly cleaning and assembling
the Vair into an inexpensive and reliable power plant as per WW and the many
helpful builders in the Corvair discussion group.
Happy new year,
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
Airframe 15%
Engine 15%
Winnipeg, Manitoba (-35F this morning)
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.75">
701 and Corvair...
With all due respect to more experienced engine and airframe people I submit the
following...
There are a number (3 that I know of) that are building 701's with Vair power.
The fact is (at least in Canada) that this will not be an ultralight or advance
ultralight because of the design changes from the original plans and the factory
does not support this engine (the main reason they do not support it is because
they have not flown it - but they do list builders with heavier engines
on their completions web page). It must be registered as an amateur built aircraft
- which gives you some leeway in the area of gross weight and other factors.
Within 50 miles of my garage there are 2 701's flying and 4 more being built, but
no two with the same power plant. The engines are R582, R912, R-912U (I think),
C-200, Hirth (100 hp, 3-banger), and a Corvair. Let's here it for diversity!
A Continental 200 weighs about the same as the Vair yet many builders chose it
and fly it.
A Soob weighs more than the Vair yet many builders choose it and fly it.
I have calculated the weight and balance (on paper) with 680 lbs empty weight (this
may be overly conservative on the heavy side by 15 to 25 lbs), big battery
in the back, 2 FAA sized people, 130 lbs of gas (2 full tanks), and 24 lbs of
sandwiches and pop in the basket. It comes out to 70 lbs over the factory's
1100 gross (so the g-limit is 5.6 rather than 6) and the balance is bang-on in
the middle (not a lawn dart). Take out the cargo and some gas and you are at
1100 lbs.
Bottom line is if I win the lottery tomorrow, I will either purchase and install
a R-914T and put the Vair in an airboat or buy that Beaver (the big STOL plane)
on the river. Until then I am slowly cleaning and assembling the Vair into
an inexpensive and reliable power plant as per WW and the many helpful builders
in the Corvair discussion group.
Happy new year,
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
Airframe 15%
Engine 15%
Winnipeg, Manitoba (-35F this morning)
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Dixon" <dix39@charter.net>
Hello,
FWIW, I agree with Tom. That is the way I remember the reports too. I was
saddened to hear that such a "freakish" set of circumstances had taken this
wonderful pilot away.
Steve Dixon
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll-Bar
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
> Hi,
>
> Charlie Hilliard was reported by EAA as to have died from asphixiation
> when his neck was bent double by the weight of the airplane. This is the
> offical I believe. The inital reports and finals I saw said nothing about
a
> puddle as far as I know. If I have it correct the roll bar definitely
would
> have saved him. If you have offical report of other (including drowning
and
> a Puddle ) that is different of course.
> I know he was not taxiing. He was on his landing roll with the tail up
when
> a brake locked up. Witness' said they saw smoke coming from the tire as
the
> wheel skidded. The plane swerved to the side of the locked brake and
> overturned on the edge of the runway. This is the report as I know it. If
> am wrong Ok but that is what I think I do know. A roll bar is a good
thing.
> Vans aircraft and most military aircraft a prime examples of planes that
> have roll bars. Planes do end up on their backs.
> I too am thinking of building a 601XL, if I do I will try to build a roll
> bar. Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dan john" <ballmell@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll-Bar
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john <ballmell@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Tom,C.Hiller died from drowning.He was taxiing with
> > the canopy open when the plane flipped over and landed
> > in a deep puddle of water.They coulden`t get to him in
> > time to save him.A really freak accident.A role bar
> > woulden`t have helped. John P.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | 701 glide speed. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
What airspeed should be used for engine-out glide for best descent rate or L/D?
Somewhere I saw 52 mph with no flaps.
Chuck D.
N701TX
Message 10
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| Subject: | Rudder hinge plates 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Hello list members
I just completed the rudder hinges on my twisted tail and it looks ok. I
made a thin material lower hinges for templates while figuring out the
location of the holes for the hingebolt. The hole on the lower hinges
are about 4mm offset to the left from centre, viewed from rear.
Rudder tail is vertical and the lower part of the rudder is a little to
the left, but the lower spar fairing( 7-R-3-4 ) will minimize any
blockage of the airstream on the lower left rudder sticking out. (just
4mm) :-)
I would like to thank everyone who helped me with solving this problem.
At first it pissed me off to know I had made such an error in the
building of my plane, but once again I have solved a problem which
seemed a huge error at the time it was discovered. And yet after some
help and hair pulling (it is almost all gone) a solution is just around
the corner.
Patience is all that is needed when completing a task such as aircraft
building. In the end it all comes together and the pleasure is just
greater when it finally is finished and flying.
Thanks again,
Best regards,
Johann G.
Iceland.
http://www.gi.is/fis
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 filter capacitor |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Got carried away "deleting" over the weekend, so I don't know who it was, or
if it was off list, so here is a shot in the dark:
The "computer grade" 22,000 mfd @ 25vdc capacitor used in the battery
charging circuit on the 912/914 is available from Digi-Key at www.digikey.com.
Item in question is Digi-Key part number P10073-ND (Panasonic Pt. No.
EEG-AA1E223FCE) These are US$18.60 each in most recent catalog. Also required
is a
three-legged mounting clamp, Digi-Key part number P10103-ND (Panasonic number
MC51B3) at US$3.07 each.
The most recent catalog is number T041 / Jan-Apr 04. This issue has 1300
pages, with the above items on page 735.
For those of you inclined, or tilted, to cobble together various
thingamajiggys (technical term) using a soldering iron, this may be one of the
last places
for parts since Ray-Diddy-O Shack is too stupid to qualify as a parts source.
Zed Smith/701/912/the exhaust fits!
do not archive
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
Here is a post by our own Carlos Sa back in Dec 01 on the Matronics list.
I Ordered my rivets from this source which are the same English made rivets
Zenith sells and advocates in their kits. Last year, and with the $30+
UPS import fee, they were still around 3.5 cents per rivet in US currency.
They took my credit card order, and shipped UPS... The exchange rate, will
of course vary. They will ask you if you have contacted the Textron Div
in the US, and SAY YES, but they wont sell the English rivets. Which they
don't. No hassle no fuss. On 8000 rivets thats a savings of around $500
Thank you Carlos Sa for posting this info...
http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/breakstem/html_tables/avex_1604.htm
Monty
=====================
Dec 11, 2001
From:
Carlos Sa <wings1@videotron.ca>
Subject:
Re: Avdel Rivets
> BTW does anyone have a link for more rivets cheap?
I ordered by phone from Avdel:
Avdel Division of Textron Canada Limited
87 Disco Road
Rexdale, Ontario M9W 1M3
Telephone: 1-800-268-9947 or (416) 679-0622
Facsimile: 1-800-594-7661 or (416) 679-0678
sales@avdeltextron.ca
You will need the part numbers:
A4 (1/4") 01604-00412
A5 (5/32") 01604-00514
prices for 1000:
A4 CDN$46.32
A5 CDN$56.10
Carlos
==========================================
At 09:05 PM 1/4/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter"
<jarek.walter@sympatico.ca>
>
>Check the www.rivetsplus.com. They seem to have a good price if you are
>buying more than 600.
>Jarek
>CH701, forming parts
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: revits
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>>
>> been looking for a good buy on the blind revits,avdel avex, is this a
>brand name or type?, found avdel but what is AVEX? and the a4 and a5 on the
>701 mat.list is that there way of sizing?, thanks guys
>>
>>
Message 13
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| Subject: | 601 fairings under hstab |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Has anyone designed / built any fairings to seal the gap between the
fuse / upper longerons and the horizontal stabilizer? If so did you
notice any performance improvement and do you have any design drawings
or photos?
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ 601XL 912S
22.5 hours Ottawa
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Reuschle" <jreuschle@mindspring.com>
I sure agree with this posting. Fortunately before my first engine out, I
had pacticed turning my engine off on final, them on long final, then in the
pattern. When it happened for real, it was a non event, another practice. .
I did fine, the plane was OK. Since then I've has 5 engine outs at altitudes
of 150 to 3500 feet. I still practice them. It is a great confidence builder
and takes what could be a panicky emergency back to a controllable event.
Jeff Reuschle
701, 912S
Painting
PS. Probably this is one reason I'm switching from 2 cycle to 4 cycle. Ha!
Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll-Bar
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> I think that the most important thing is how "we fly" the airplane down
> in the emergency... If a good emergency landing ends in bumpy land, a
> roll over is slow with low (if any) harm to both aircraft or pilot.
>
> If fast, hard and (we could say) out of pilots control, the G's from
> the crash landing in the pilot body will kill him or cause severe harm,
> rol bar or not... There are two subjects important in flying training
> (all of our pilots life):
> 1.- (Know the) Weather
> 2.- Emergency landing training.
>
> # 1 Should be our everyday practice, flying or not, # 2 Should be a
> constant practice when ever we dont have any place to go, instead of
> just flying around, do some stall "feeling" and landings to the mark
> with engine (at least) in idle, without engine "help" when ever
> possible and safe.
> Something very common and required here for ultralights pilots (mainly
> in 2 cycle engines), I know several of you never have flown an
> ultralight with 2 cycle engine, but any plane, even the Shuttle, has
> the potential of a failure, hopely never will happen to us, but...
>
> Knowing our limits and where we need to improve is beeing responsible
> of our own life.
>
> Just my point of view.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.
>
> --- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
> > <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> >
> > A recently completed 601 XL in my area suffered just such an
> > accident. An
> > oil cooler line came loose in flight and the Jabiru engine seized
> > before the
> > pilot could make it back to the airport. He make an forced landing in
> > a
> > field and got it almost stopped when the nose wheel dropped into a
> > hole and
> > the plane flipped over. The pilot walked away with only minor
> > injuries.
> >
> > A roll bar for the 601 probably wouldn't have to be very substantial
> > to be
> > effective in this sort of accident. You might want to carry a hatchet
> > on
> > board to hack your way out though.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bryan Martin
> > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> > Airframe construction complete.
> > Panel and engine installed.
> > Nearly done.
> > do not archive.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
How close are you to being done?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> besides the larger rotax what are the better choices of engines for
the 701? anyone using anything from raven redrives"geo,suzuki? thanks
>
>
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
-- Thanks
Brett Ray
owner Hog Air
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 601 fairings under hstab |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Frank, try Peter Chapman's web site: http://web.ionsys.com/~pchapman/pmc_zodiac.htm
Carlos
CH601 HD
--- Frank Jones <fjones@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
>
> Has anyone designed / built any fairings to seal the gap between the
> fuse / upper longerons and the horizontal stabilizer? If so did you
> notice any performance improvement and do you have any design drawings
> or photos?
>
> Frank Jones
> C-GYXQ 601XL 912S
> 22.5 hours Ottawa
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