Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:34 AM - Re: CH 701 Fuel Management (Phil & Michele Miller)
2. 04:24 AM - Re: 701 Fuel Problem (Phil & Michele Miller)
3. 04:32 AM - Re: revits (ronnie wehba)
4. 06:07 AM - Re: 701 Fuel Problem (Scott Laughlin)
5. 06:40 AM - Re: 701 Fuel Problem (Hal Rozema)
6. 07:12 AM - Re: RIVETS (Scott Laughlin)
7. 07:31 AM - Re: RIVETS (Benford2@aol.com)
8. 07:43 AM - Re: XL Wing Tip Curves (Scott Laughlin)
9. 09:05 AM - Re: Roll-Bar (Thomas F Marson)
10. 10:43 AM - Re: RIVETS (ronnie wehba)
11. 10:51 AM - rivit opp's (ronnie wehba)
12. 10:57 AM - Re: RIVETS (Michel Therrien)
13. 11:30 AM - drilling nose ribs (Jack Russell)
14. 12:02 PM - Re: drilling nose ribs (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
15. 12:04 PM - Re: drilling nose ribs (Keith Ashcraft)
16. 01:57 PM - Re: 701 Fuel Problem (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
17. 02:20 PM - Re: XL Wing Tip Curves (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
18. 02:38 PM - Re: CH 701 Fuel Management (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
19. 03:51 PM - Re: CH 701 Fuel Management (Clyde D. Ehlers)
20. 04:46 PM - Re: 701 Fuel Problem (Gary Gower)
21. 05:23 PM - Re: RIVETS (Ron DeWees)
22. 05:33 PM - Rotax 912UL CHT's (Rich)
23. 06:32 PM - Ercoupe gasket (George Swinford)
24. 07:08 PM - Re: Rotax 912UL CHT's (Frank Jones)
25. 07:08 PM - Re: XL Wing Tip Curves (nhulin)
26. 07:34 PM - Re: drilling nose ribs (SkyKingN@aol.com)
27. 08:44 PM - EAA Experimenter story on the 701 (Jon Croke)
28. 11:06 PM - 583 rotax (Evan Lewis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | CH 701 Fuel Management |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
Lowell,
I have the same tank configuration you have except my wing tanks are
only 22 litres (about 5.8 US gallons) each. I have the "D" shaped header
tank and the wing tanks feed the header tank continuously. The problem
you describe is almost certainly due to improper venting of the header
tank. The very first time you filled your tanks it should have worked
fine as the vent line would have been clear. Once you got the header
full that first time, fuel will have filled the vent line right back
through its entire length and up to the highest fuel level in your wing
tanks. From that time onwards the vent line will never be clear again
due to the routing down to the floor and back up to the wing. As you
draw fuel from the header tank, fuel should flow by gravity/suction from
the wing tanks. The wing tanks should vent via the vented caps. Once the
wing tanks are empty, the fuel level in your vent line will have dropped
to the level of the top of your header tank. From that point on, venting
of the header tank is most likely to be via the fuel line from either or
both wing tanks rather than via the header tank vent line (remember this
line still contains a quantity of fuel in the bottom of the "U"). Air
venting to the header tank will take the path of least resistance. When
you next go to fill your tanks you will run into the problem you
describe due to the large "bubble" of air in the header tank trying to
push its way past the fuel in the vent line. Line friction in both the
vent line and the lines from the wing tanks to the header tank is
probably high enough to prevent flow into the header tank.
OK, if that's the problem, why don't I have the same problem and what's
the solution?
It's actually quite simple (if not ideal). You must re-route your header
tank vent line so that it never travels downwards then upwards (get rid
of the "U" bend). I would also suggest that the vent line be 1/4" ID
minimum. Mine is routed from the tank vent up through the cowl, adjacent
to the right side forward cabin tube, out into the right wing to an
inverted "U" vent in the top of the wing. A clear line extension from
the inverted "U" vent is routed down and exits between the LE Slat and
the wing leading edge. By the way, with this setup I can drain all tanks
completely via the gascolator.
Does it work? Most certainly. Am I happy with the system? Not entirely
and here's why...
The wing tank caps vent into a low pressure area on top of the wing and
siphon fuel out if the tanks are overly full. Not a major problem but it
all costs money.
As long as there is fuel in the wing tanks, the vent line is filled with
fuel to the same level. This only causes a slight problem in the
following situation. At high angles of attack (such as when landing or
practising stalls) the header tank vent pressurises the header tank.
After nosewheel touchdown or returning to level flight, fuel is then
ejected from the vent as the header tank pressure returns to normal.
Again not a major problem but not ideal.
One other point about the header tank setup is well worth noting. The
suggested routing of the wing tank fuel lines to a "T" behind the seat
then down under the seat and up to the header tank creates a potential
for water (if any) from the wing tanks to collect in the line under the
seat. I am in the process of rebuilding my plane and am fitting a second
gascolator at the low point under the back of the seat much like the
latest plans with no header tank.
Sorry about the long explanation but you don't want to be another
statistic who ran out of fuel with plenty on board. I'm sure there are
other opinions out there and I'm no expert so please research well
before you take to the air.
Kind regards,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
701/912S
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz"
--> <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
For those 701 drivers out there, I have a fuel systems problem I think
was caused by my outsmarting myself.
Message 2
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| Subject: | 701 Fuel Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
Bill,
The latest build version has one tank in each wing and no header tank.
The two wing tank outlets "T" at a gascolator low down behind the
pilot's seat then via a shut-off valve on the floor in front of the
pilot's seat and on to the engine. Simple, uncomplicated and virtually
foolproof. I suggest you would have no problems at all with the current
system. The only reason I am retaining my header tank is because my wing
tanks are only about half the capacity of the current ones.
Fear not, the ZAC design is good. If the 701 is the type of craft you
want you'll struggle to find anything better.
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
701/912S
(Do not archive)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Martin
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Fuel Problem
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Martin" <allpro2@bellsouth.net>
Wow, after reading Lowell's problems with fuel management, and others
with questions and answers about header tank removal....It sort of
shakes your confidence in the ZAC.
Bill in central Florida
Message 3
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required 5, BAYES_00, WANTS_CREDIT_CARD)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
was over at a freinds fiberglass shop the other day, and talking about
revits, i realized he used about 250 per deer blind he manufactures.looking
at the ones he uses,they already have the dome shaped head,so you don't need
the special head!.http://www.mustangfiberglass.com/
here is his link, might be able to see some of the revits if blown up
somehow.BTW, the are the nicest i have seen.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim & Diane Shankland" <tshank@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: revits
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland
<tshank@megsinet.net>
>
> Ron,
>
> The best I can tell, the price.
>
> Tim Shankland
>
> ronnie wehba wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> >
> >just what makes the revits in the zenith A/C so special?, or am i missing
> >something here???, thanks ron in tx.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Tim & Diane Shankland" <tshank@megsinet.net>
> >To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: revits
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland
> >>
> >>
> ><tshank@megsinet.net>
> >
> >
> >>A little aside to the English made rivet business. When I bought mine
> >>from a local distributor and asked about where they were made he
> >>informed me that Textron had outsourced all their production the England
> >>so any of them you buy are made in the English plant.
> >>
> >>Tim Shankland
> >>
> >>Monty Graves wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
> >>>
> >>>Here is a post by our own Carlos Sa back in Dec 01 on the Matronics
list.
> >>>I Ordered my rivets from this source which are the same English made
> >>>
> >>>
> >rivets
> >
> >
> >>>Zenith sells and advocates in their kits. Last year, and with the
$30+
> >>>UPS import fee, they were still around 3.5 cents per rivet in US
> >>>
> >>>
> >currency.
> >
> >
> >>>They took my credit card order, and shipped UPS... The exchange rate,
> >>>
> >>>
> >will
> >
> >
> >>>of course vary. They will ask you if you have contacted the Textron
> >>>
> >>>
> >Div
> >
> >
> >>>in the US, and SAY YES, but they wont sell the English rivets. Which
> >>>
> >>>
> >they
> >
> >
> >>>don't. No hassle no fuss. On 8000 rivets thats a savings of around
> >>>
> >>>
> >$500
> >
> >
> >>>Thank you Carlos Sa for posting this info...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>>http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/breakstem/html_tables/avex_1604.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>>Monty
> >>>=====================
> >>>
> >>>Date:
> >>> Dec 11, 2001
> >>>
> >>>From:
> >>> Carlos Sa <wings1@videotron.ca>
> >>>
> >>>Subject:
> >>> Re: Avdel Rivets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > BTW does anyone have a link for more rivets cheap?
> >>>
> >>> I ordered by phone from Avdel:
> >>> Avdel Division of Textron Canada Limited
> >>> 87 Disco Road
> >>> Rexdale, Ontario M9W 1M3
> >>> Telephone: 1-800-268-9947 or (416) 679-0622
> >>> Facsimile: 1-800-594-7661 or (416) 679-0678
> >>> sales@avdeltextron.ca
> >>>
> >>> You will need the part numbers:
> >>> A4 (1/4") 01604-00412
> >>> A5 (5/32") 01604-00514
> >>>
> >>> prices for 1000:
> >>> A4 CDN$46.32
> >>> A5 CDN$56.10
> >>>
> >>> Carlos
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>==========================================
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>At 09:05 PM 1/4/04 -0500, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>><jarek.walter@sympatico.ca>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Check the www.rivetsplus.com. They seem to have a good price if you
are
> >>>>buying more than 600.
> >>>>Jarek
> >>>>CH701, forming parts
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> >>>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >>>>Subject: Zenith-List: revits
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>been looking for a good buy on the blind revits,avdel avex, is this a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>brand name or type?, found avdel but what is AVEX? and the a4 and a5
on
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >the
> >
> >
> >>>>701 mat.list is that there way of sizing?, thanks guys
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | 701 Fuel Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Hi Bill in Central Florida:
You should go visit Roger and Nick in Central Missouri. ZAC does a fine job
of providing updates to drawings and making improvements on a continual
basis. The fact that so many people are building their products should let
you know the quality is good. I challenge you to look into this a bit more.
www.zenithair.com is a good place to start. You can also call them and
even better, you can make a trip to Mexico, MO where they will give you a
tour of the factory and take you up in a fine aircraft that you can build.
If you are going to spend a year or two building an airplane, it's a small
investment to go to the factory to make sure it is something worth your
time.
Good luck in your selection.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bill Martin" <allpro2@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Fuel Problem
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Martin" <allpro2@bellsouth.net>
Wow, after reading Lowell's problems with fuel management, and others with
questions and answers about header tank removal....It sort of shakes your
confidence in the ZAC. I am a potential buyer and I am reading the bb's
about potential canidates for me to choose as a kit plane to build and now
this about something as mundane as a fuel managemnt problem on the 701. So
is this something that other builders have corrected on their own with no
input from ZAC or a potential problem others just over look and always keep
their fingers cossed by continually hoping their header tank collects enough
fuel? Someone mentioned the header tank has been eliminated. If so what
was the solution? Is it something as simple as a "cessna" type fuel
selector switch, that is L-R-Both-Off? If a new kit were purchased today,
are the plans - revisions already updated or am I looking at two years worth
of revisions to the new CAD plans that would come with a newly purchased
kit? I am not tryi!
ng to stir something up, just trying to find the best bang for my buck.
Bill in central Florida
Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuel Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Relax... enjoy a 701 if that is what you want.
Current plans show 2 fuel tanks in the wings. They drain directly to a boost pump
which is only used for prime and take off (caution). No valves. And hence
to the mechanical (engine) fuel pump and into the carb.
You will find that Chris Heintz design philosophy is always K.I.S.S.
Various parties ran into the problems discussed when the header tank was tied into
the new wing tank provision. The factory even has a fix for that (used on
the factory demo 701) if people would only ask the design team instead of condemning
the whole ZAC team for a builder's problem. Nick and Chris are both extremely
consciencsious and available to a fault. "Ask first and save building
it twice", I've found is the best way to achieve the quickest and happiest result.
Hal Rozema
VSTOL701/3300
theplanefolks.net
Phoenix AZ
Finishing engine installation
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:RIVETS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Ronnie:
You are starting to scare me now. The deer stand has very little in common
with an airplane. There are several sources for the Avex rivets and and ZAC
will modify your rivet gun head for about 8 "Bucks". That's not a lot of
"Doe." I like to hunt too and I've done my share of deer hunting in Texas,
but let's stay focused here.
ZAC can get you started with a few hundred rivets, then you can find another
source somewhere else if you don't like their price or service, but you
should stay with the recommended rivets if you want a safe airplane. Read
the articles on the ZAC website to learn why the Avex rivets are the best
choice for aircraft construction. The other rivets will work themselves
loose over time.
See this photo of the Deer Blind rivet:
http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/images/ht-871b.gif
Versus this photo of an Avex rivet:
http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/images/rivet1.gif
Notice how rivet in the second photo forms around the bottom of the rivet so
it can't work it's way out. The Deer Blind rivet leaves the bottom open and
it can fall out with vibration.
Thanks for keeping the posts interesting and let me know if I can help you
with your project in any way.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
was over at a freinds fiberglass shop the other day, and talking about
revits, i realized he used about 250 per deer blind he manufactures.looking
at the ones he uses,they already have the dome shaped head,so you don't need
the special head!.http://www.mustangfiberglass.com/
Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:RIVETS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 1/8/2004 8:13:05 AM Mountain Standard Time,
cookwithgas@hotmail.com writes:
>
> You are starting to scare me now. The deer stand has very little in common
> with an airplane. There are several sources for the Avex rivets and and ZAC
>
> will modify your
Me Too !!!!!!!!!!!
Ben Haas N801BH. do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: XL Wing Tip Curves |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Thanks to all who replied.
Now I know I was not making an obvious mistake! I'll post photos when I get
everything trimmed and assembled. If everything fits, I'll make the revised
VISIO plot available to anybody who needs it.
Scott Laughlin
Photo of the week:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_29_03_Clecowing.JPG
Expand your wine savvy and get some great new recipes at MSN Wine.
http://wine.msn.com
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Gary Gary Gary----
You know the Aeronca and the 172 occupants were protected by the high wing
airplane. You have to know you are comparing apples against oranges why are
you doing this? We are talking about different airplane in the 601 with the
bubble.
If you choose not to build a roll bar and wish to convince hyourself that
your are safe in a flip upside down that is your option. It is amazing what
ends some people go to to justify an opinion.
I for one will bow out of this discussion. I have made whatever points I
can. I have stated facts. Hilliard did remove his roll bar on the Seafury,
Vans and all or most military low wing planes have roll over structure and
the Cessnas and Aeroncas have built in roll over structure with the cabin
and wing above them.
I am out of here Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll-Bar
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> Yes Tom,
>
> But is comparing a VW with a Kenworth! What is the empty weight of a
> Seafury? Compared with the 601 even a roll bar will be colapsed with
> the weight of the Seafury.
>
> Also you are proving correct in our thought: "...the plane flipped in
> SLOW MOTION and landed upside down..."
> This is how 99% of the roll overs happen in airplanes, I have
> witnessed two of them, diferent ocasions, over 25 years, one Cessna
> 172 ( a was co-owner) and an Aeronca. The 172 almost stoped vertical in
> the propeller, we thought it was going back to his wheels when she
> continued slowly her "show", both planes were rebuilt and the 3
> persons, (pilot and copilot , also c-owners) in the 172 and the sole
> pilot in the Aeronca came out with out a scratch, Spectacular but
> completly "safe", Kids dont try this at your airport :-) :-).
>
> Once more, with the weight of the 601 the normal structure will be more
> than enough protection for the pilot. Faster roll over speed will not
> be a landing, but a serious Crash!
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
>
> --- Thomas F Marson <tmarson@pressenter.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
> > <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> >
> > A highly experienced member of he Eagles aerobatic team flew with
> > them from
> > the beginning until the act broke up after 25 years. Next year he
> > was
> > flying a Seafury that he had outfitted for his new airshow act.
> >
> > A normal landing and the right brake locked up. The plane flipped
> > over in
> > slowmotion and landed upside down.
> >
> > He had taken the roll bar out previously. The canopy and the tail
> > assy
> > were not enough to save him. He was held ok in his seat belt and
> > shoulder
> > belt but he died because of the collapsed canopy and No rollover
> > structure.
> > I would want one on any plane that had no substantial pilot
> > protection
> > structure.
> >
> > Tom Marson.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll-Bar
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> > <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> > >
> > > Well, from a cost/benefit perspective, that's the most persuasive
> > argument
> > > so far. I think I'll forego the rollbar.
> > > Here's hoping you're ok. Thanks for the post.
> > > BobMiller
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:RIVETS |
required 5, BAYES_00)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
scott I was not saying I was going to use them we were just talking!, also
the revits he uses do curl around the stem., was just saying the ones he
uses had a domed head already. I'll try and find out exactly what
brand,type,ect. they are "just because"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List:RIVETS
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
<cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Ronnie:
>
> You are starting to scare me now. The deer stand has very little in
common
> with an airplane. There are several sources for the Avex rivets and and
ZAC
> will modify your rivet gun head for about 8 "Bucks". That's not a lot of
> "Doe." I like to hunt too and I've done my share of deer hunting in
Texas,
> but let's stay focused here.
>
> ZAC can get you started with a few hundred rivets, then you can find
another
> source somewhere else if you don't like their price or service, but you
> should stay with the recommended rivets if you want a safe airplane. Read
> the articles on the ZAC website to learn why the Avex rivets are the best
> choice for aircraft construction. The other rivets will work themselves
> loose over time.
>
> See this photo of the Deer Blind rivet:
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/images/ht-871b.gif
>
> Versus this photo of an Avex rivet:
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/images/rivet1.gif
>
> Notice how rivet in the second photo forms around the bottom of the rivet
so
> it can't work it's way out. The Deer Blind rivet leaves the bottom open
and
> it can fall out with vibration.
>
> Thanks for keeping the posts interesting and let me know if I can help you
> with your project in any way.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> was over at a freinds fiberglass shop the other day, and talking about
> revits, i realized he used about 250 per deer blind he
manufactures.looking
> at the ones he uses,they already have the dome shaped head,so you don't
need
> the special head!.http://www.mustangfiberglass.com/
>
> Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited
>
>
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
I think maybe I worded my post way wrong, I would not use any revit but the ones
called for,I was just talking maybe to early in the morning, didn't mean to
"scare anyone" guess i better have a cup or two of coffee before I type before
thinking!!!!!!!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:RIVETS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
There are also Avex rivets with dome heads. They are
the "Lo-pro" series (the 1661 series if I remember).
But these were not the ones selected by C. Heintz.
Actually, the modified head rivets provide a lower
profile than the stock "Lo-pro" rivets.
If one wants to save the 10 minutes it takes to modify
the riveter head, here is a possible alternative...
just check with the designer first.
Michel
--- ronnie wehba <rwehba@wtxs.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba"
> <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> scott I was not saying I was going to use them we
> were just talking!, also
> the revits he uses do curl around the stem., was
> just saying the ones he
> uses had a domed head already. I'll try and find out
> exactly what
> brand,type,ect. they are "just because"
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Message 13
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| Subject: | drilling nose ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Any suggestions on how to drill #20 hole in the nose rib to the L-angle attachment
on the spar. Even with a angle drill and a short drill bit I will have to
drill at a slight angle. Is this a problem? Thanks
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 14
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| Subject: | drilling nose ribs |
On the HDS I used a 12" long 1/8th drill bit. This maybe flexed quite a bit
when drilling to give you a perpendicular hole.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Russell
Subject: Zenith-List: drilling nose ribs
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Any suggestions on how to drill #20 hole in the nose rib to the L-angle
attachment on the spar. Even with a angle drill and a short drill bit I will
have to drill at a slight angle. Is this a problem? Thanks
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: drilling nose ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Hey Jack,
If I am understanding your message, is the drill and motor to big to get
close to perpendicular? If it is then you need to go with a smaller
drill/housing to drill these holes. Maybe a Dremal (sp?) Flex head for
drilling in tight places!! A slight angle might not be too bad, but you
want to pull rivets straight!!
Keith
Jack Russell wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>Any suggestions on how to drill #20 hole in the nose rib to the L-angle attachment
on the spar. Even with a angle drill and a short drill bit I will have to
drill at a slight angle. Is this a problem? Thanks
>
>
>Jack Russell -Clovis CA
>601 XL Jabiru 3300
> Progress update at:
>http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
>
>
>
>
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuel Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Martin" <allpro2@bellsouth.net>
>
> Wow, after reading Lowell's problems with fuel management, and others with
> questions and answers about header tank removal....It sort of shakes your
> confidence in the ZAC.
Lowell's problems with his fuel system has nothing to do with ZAC. His problem
is caused by a mistake he made himself in his fuel vent design. He dud make a good
decision when he chose not to fly it until the problem is solved though.
Bryan Martin
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: XL Wing Tip Curves |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Fellow Builders:
>
> I have a question for those with at least one completed XL wing. I'm trying
> to plot the correct wing tip curves (for trimming my wings). I'm using
> VISIO, so I can draw the curve very accurately. When using the data points
> from 6-W-9, there's almost no way to make a smooth curve.
I just used the measurements in the plans as a rough guide. I marked them on the
wing and drew a freehand curve between them and made my first cut well outside
this
line. Look at the wing from directly in front of the it. Keep in mind that the
wing tip should be cut off at a 45 degree angle parallel to the direction of flight.
When you are all done with the cut, a flat sheet of heavy cardboard or plwood should
just touch your cut edge along it's entire length and be at 45 degrees to the vertical
and parallel to the line of flight. What I did is to make my first cut wide of
the
mark and gradually cut and file the metal back to this 45 degree plane by eyballing
it from the front and sighting along the already cut 45 degree angle of the spar
tip.
When I got done with the first wing I re-measured the actual dimensions I ended
up with
and wrote them down as reference for the second wing. The second wing went a lot
faster.
Just take it slow and carefull.
Bryan Martin.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: CH 701 Fuel Management |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
>
> For those 701 drivers out there, I have a fuel systems problem I think was
> caused by my outsmarting myself.
I agree with the others that you have fuel trapped in your vent line that is interfering
with the proper venting of your tank.
As a general rule you should not have any fuel lines on an airplane that have low
spots that can not be drained. In a fuel vent these low spots will cause problem
like yours. In a fuel supply line, water can and probably will collect in these
low spots
since water is denser than fuel. Water trapped in fuel lines can cause all sorts
of
problems. If a slug of water gets trapped between your gascolater and carb, it
can
be pushed out into the carb and cause an engine stoppage. Trapped water can also
freeze
the line and at block the flow of fuel. The ice can also rupture the line causing
a fuel leak, something you definatly don't inside your cockpit. If at all possible,
your fuel lines should run down hill to your gascolater and then uphill to your
engine.
You should not have any local low spots in your lines where water can collect.
Bryan Martin
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: CH 701 Fuel Management |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde D. Ehlers" <clydes-shop@bizdialup.com>
HI:All
I think you all need to goto Jet Pumps in the Wings And very thing
will work The Citation Cessna Jet Use that way of transferring fuel that
is what I am going to use and I am making My know system of pumps at the
tankes fed from the Engen Pump.
Clyde D. Ehlers Ser. # 25 CH 200/300
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Fuel Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Martin"
> <allpro2@bellsouth.net>
> >
> > Wow, after reading Lowell's problems with fuel management, and
> others with
> > questions and answers about header tank removal....It sort of
> shakes your
> > confidence in the ZAC.
>
One important thing here:
Remember that WE are homebuilders, what ever change or experiment a
builder do to his project has nothing to do with the designer of the
plane.
The designer had the good idea of sharing his project so someone can
build a plane from his plans, if the plans are changed, for good or
for bad, is a complete resposability of the builder.
Hope all the minor changes we make to our projects are for good,
hopefully they are minimal, for our safety.
One of the lots of things I have learned from this project is how
Simple the ZAC planes are.
I once read some place that the dificult part of inventing is to invent
something as simple and functional as possible. and Chis Heintz is
Great in this.
If any of you ever saw a plane named "John Doe" (also a STOL, Cub look
alike) in S&F about 2 or 3 years ago, will understand what I am
saying... What a complicated plane with several handles to modify the
STOL characteristics. Not a bad plane at all, but very far from KIS.
Just my point of view.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:RIVETS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
While on the subject of rivets I wanted to mention that I found a direct
substiute for the Zenith A4s at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty for only 3 c
per rivet in lots of 100. I understand there is a further price break at
600 or more. The hardware store charges almost twice that for non-certified
rivets. Sometimes the aircraft part is actually cheaper than the generic
hardware store stuff !
I also got a tip from a local Zenair 601 builder who found that an Ercoupe
gas tank gasket works great on the Zenair 601. It's like a big, thick "O"
ring that fits between the tank neck and the header skin. They are $8 and
will keep gas out of the cockpit. Probobly will work on the wing tanks
too, but mine are already installed and I don't think I can wedge the rubber
between the skin and the tank when it's already mounted. It's in the AS&S
catalog in the Ercoupe section but I can get the stock number if anyone
needs it.
Ron DeWees
Zen 601/Jab 3300 in progress
Message 22
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| Subject: | Rotax 912UL CHT's |
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" <rbauer@intergate.com>
On the 912 UL/S2, is there a CHT sensor on each cylinder? I'm considering
getting the EIS 4000 for the 912 to monitor everything that I can.
Thanks
Rich
do not archive
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
I agree with Ron DeWees' suggestion that an Ercoupe fuel tank neck gasket works
well on a 601 fuselage tank. I found that I needed to reduce the thickness of
the gasket in order for the tank cap to close properly. No problem, just sand
off some of the top.
George Swinford
Message 24
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| Subject: | Rotax 912UL CHT's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
There are two CHT sensors that come with that engine. One on either
side. They are really liquid temperatures.
Frank
>On the 912 UL/S2, is there a CHT sensor on each cylinder? I'm
considering
>getting the EIS 4000 for the 912 to monitor everything that I can.
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: XL Wing Tip Curves |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Scott,
I faced the same problem with my XL tips (the quality of the fibreglass is
yet another story for another camp fire). My solution was to use my cheap HF
laser to project a line on the inside of the LE skin when it was in place.
Here is the method:
Cleco the LE skin in place.
Put the line diffractor lens on the laser.
Set the laser against the 45 degree end of the rear channel.
Aim the laser so that it just misses the spar tip extension and projects
onto the inside of the LE skin.
Mark the skin with a Sharpie marker - a series of dashes will do, you can
smooth it out and join them up later.
Takes a couple of minutes and is as good as you are going to get. Take the
skin down to about 10mm outside the line and check again the fit of the
fibreglass tip. Wish I had some photos but it was all done so quick that I
didn't stop to get any. Obviously works better in a darkened workshop and do
take care with the laser.
Actually I don't claim that this solution is original, I adapted it from an
idea I picked up on some newsgroup, maybe here but I don't remember.
..neil
601XL/Corvair
Fuselage and stuff...
At 12:48:41 PM PST US, Scott Laughlin wrote:
<snip>
The note on the drawing says:
"Wing tip is a smooth curve between the end of 6-W-5-1 and 6-W-7-1"
This is impossible with the dimensions given. For example, see this plot:
<snip>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: drilling nose ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: SkyKingN@aol.com
Jack, pick up a right angle air drill from one of the tool suppliers. you can
buy special bits that will get in close, they don't cost much and will come
in handy as you go on with the project. If you need more info, contact me and i
will get you all the info and were to purchase it, I believe i got mine at us
tool, has bits that screw into the head, you won't regret it, good luck, neil
Message 27
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| Subject: | EAA Experimenter story on the 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
For any 701 enthusiast.....
You may have heard that the Jan 2004 issue of EAA Experimenter has a front cover
story of the 701 as reviewed by Dan Johnson... great photos and a detailed review
of a Dan's first flight of a Czech Aircraft Works built 701. Some interesting
comments and impressions.... good reading if you are considering building
or buying one of these planes.
A couple of points struck me: last paragraph on P 27 reads:
"In my test CH701 the throttle kept creeping forward, a problem I had to keep in
mind. An adjustment should fix this,thought it might pose a problem for a student;
otherwise the 701 is a good choice for a training aircraft."
My comment: don't use a lighter spring on the carbs to fix this!
He also comments on how the rudder was stiff to operate, and blamed it on flying
a 'new' plane. Of course, we know that a use of some delron plastic bushings
on the nose wheel horn is the right way to solve this problem.
He also comments on how the 912S was too much engine for this plane, and implied
the 912 was a better choice!
Well back to building... its too cold outside to do anything else..... we cant
all live in the warmth of Zed Smith country... I bet he's enjoying our equivalent
of spring/summer weather!
Jon
the aluminum butcher from Brussels
near Green Bay, Wi
701US rebuild
Message 28
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Evan Lewis <elewis12@shaw.ca>
does anybody have any thoughts as to the using a rotax 583 (97hp)?
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