Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:37 AM - Re: Build Time (Lowell Metz)
2. 05:24 AM - Re: Build Time (Bill Howerton)
3. 05:30 AM - Re: Aeroflash Strobes - Position Lights (Benford2@aol.com)
4. 06:44 AM - Re: Build Time (Ed Kramer)
5. 07:26 AM - Re: Build Time (Larry McFarland)
6. 08:00 AM - Re: Build Time (Gary Gower)
7. 08:57 AM - Re: Build Time (Scott Laughlin)
8. 09:02 AM - Re: Build Time (Hal Rozema)
9. 09:17 AM - Re: Build Time (Steve Dixon)
10. 09:42 AM - Build time (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
11. 09:56 AM - Fuel Management update (Walt Cannon)
12. 11:13 AM - Did you see in KitPlanes? (Jon Croke)
13. 11:17 AM - Re: Build Time (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
14. 12:15 PM - Re: Build Time (ALEMBIC7@aol.com)
15. 12:57 PM - Re: Rotax 912UL CHT's (Rich)
16. 01:12 PM - Jab 3300 CHT, EGT monitoring (Eric Tauch)
17. 02:13 PM - Jabiru service (Bob Miller)
18. 02:53 PM - Re: Build Time (Greg Ferris)
19. 03:06 PM - Re: Aeroflash Strobes - Position Lights (Greg Ferris)
20. 03:22 PM - 601XL Dual stick order (Bill Howerton)
21. 03:32 PM - Fuel Management success (Lowell Metz)
22. 03:43 PM - Re: Aeroflash Strobes - Position Lights (Eric Tauch)
23. 04:59 PM - Re: 601XL Dual stick order (B K Johnson)
24. 05:26 PM - Re: Build Time (Kurt Johnson)
25. 06:05 PM - Re: Rotax 912UL CHT's (Benford2@aol.com)
26. 06:11 PM - Re: Rotax 912UL CHT's (Lowell Metz)
27. 06:18 PM - factory packet (ronnie wehba)
28. 06:22 PM - Re: 601XL Dual stick order (Gary Gower)
29. 11:25 PM - Re: 601XL Dual stick order (Ray Montagne)
30. 11:26 PM - Re: 601XL Dual stick order (Ray Montagne)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
> Hey Fella's,
>
> My father and I are looking at building a 701 this summer.
** Great . My boy and I built 2 planes together and had a wonderful time.
Neither of us
> has any experience with building aircraft or working with sheet metal and
> rivets.
** None of us started out with any experience.
With this in mind; can two men, working 10-12 hours a day, 6 days a
> week, finish a complete plane with engine in one month?
** No Way. But that should not stop you from getting started. You will be
a long way in a month. Don't have the finished plane as a goal. Have parts
as goals and you will be rewarded with continual satisfaction of
accomplishment. Then one day, it will be done. Well, not really as you will
be puttering and improving on it from then on.
What things should
> we do to prepare for this effort.
** Join a local chapter of the EAA, read, obtain a ZAC builder list of
builders in your area and visit them. It doesn't have to be a 701 as all of
the ZAC planes are quite similar in construction and the technique is the
same. We all like visitors.
Obviously trying to get some hands on
> with sheet metal work would go a long way.
** Go to the weekend seminar in Mexico. There you will find out if you
really want to marry the thing. Kind of like the first date and you can
keep the kiss.
Any advice will be much
> appreciated.
** You are getting advice in advance. I took 4 years and 7 months on my 701
and in a way I miss not having a project. You will find the journey as fun
as the destination.
>
> Kurt Johnson
>
>
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
In addition to the raw building time that everyone here is mentioning, you
will see that you will spend quite a bit of time just simply studying the
plans, and time spent on this thread (or with ZAC) trying to get a
clarification of one issue or another. Everytime I get ready to start a new
section, I usually spend at least 2-3 nights diligently studying what I'm
about to do, and how it is to be done. Furthermore, you need to study not
just the upcoming section, but also the two or three following it. It is
very very difficult to un-cut or un-drill metal, so the study is necessary.
Bill Howerton
- N714BH -
601XL Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: <CBRxxDRV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Build Time
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/9/04 11:02:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> compair6@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > My father and I are looking at building a 701 this summer. Neither of
us
> > has any experience with building aircraft or working with sheet metal
and
> > rivets. With this in mind; can two men, working 10-12 hours a day, 6
days a
> > week, finish a complete plane with engine in one month? What things
should
> > we do to prepare for this effort. Obviously trying to get some hands on
> > with sheet metal work would go a long way. Any advice will be much
> > appreciated.
> >
>
> NO
>
> Even if you attack this as a job it would take longer than a month.
> 3 to 4 hours a night, 4 nights a week seems good for me. I stay
> fresh and don't get burned out as long as I see progress.
> 2 people working will not cut the time in half. I like to work alone
> because it keeps me focused and on task. My first plane I thought
> that I could get 12 hours in on a Sunday....no way. 8 hours max and it can
> stop being fun if you push too hard. Tonight I watched some TV and
> then decided that nothing good was on so in the garage I went for a
> couple hours. A goal is good but a year would be a better goal.
>
> Every time I finish a project I want to do another. I learn new skills
> and when I am done have better ideas. This is a learning process and
> the Zenair is more forgiving than some other kits.....jump in and enjoy.
> Buy the rudder and take the class if you can. This Zenair (N826W)
> is practice for the next one.
>
>
> Sal Capra
> Lakeland, FL
> My Home Page
> http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroflash Strobes - Position Lights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 1/9/2004 9:53:09 PM Mountain Standard Time,
tgrazian@bellsouth.net writes:
>
> I have been reading various emails the past few weeks concerning Aeroflash
> strobe units bought with the Zenith Kits. I just started unpacking my 601XL
> kit. Along with the Aeroflash strobe/position light sub kit was a tag with
> the following information:
>
> "WARNING:
> Power supplies contain electrolytic capacitors and need to be used as soon
> as possible. If stored for a long period of time, they are subject to
> failure. When this happens, it is recommended to start the power supplies @
25%
> voltage for about 10 minutes, before applying full voltage.
> You can achieve reduced voltage by using a variable power supply or by
> running the strobe power supply without lamps attached."
>
> I did not see the above in any emails. Maybe I missed it or maybe the above
> has been recently added to the kits by Aeroflash.
>
> Tony G
>
>
It has been added since I got my 801 kit in 2-2001. I can assure you that I
will take those precautions but if they fail soon after, I WILL fly to the
Aeroflash factory and feed it to someone if they say I should have known there
was a defect in their unit...Ben Haas N801BH.
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" <edair701@adelphia.net>
> Hey Fella's,
>
> My father and I are looking at building a 701 this summer. Neither of us
> has any experience with building aircraft or working with sheet metal and
> rivets. With this in mind; can two men, working 10-12 hours a day, 6 days
a
> week, finish a complete plane with engine in one month? What things
should
> we do to prepare for this effort. Obviously trying to get some hands on
> with sheet metal work would go a long way. Any advice will be much
> appreciated.
>
> Kurt Johnson
>
Kurt,
That is a very ambitious goal to say the least. The goals I would
want to achieve would be quailty without regard to time. For a first time
builder their is a learning process involved, learning as you build.
Their is a saying, you'll know how to build an airplane when it's finished.
I think setting over ambitious goals can lead to costly, time-consuming
mistakes.
Ed Kramer
West Seneca, NY
CH 701
edair701@adelphia.net
Build Status:
Completed: Rudder, Left wing, Right wing.
Working on flaperons
>
>
Message 5
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tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Build Time
> Hey Fella's,
>
> My father and I are looking at building a 701 this summer. Neither of us
> has any experience with building aircraft or working with sheet metal and
> rivets. With this in mind; can two men, working 10-12 hours a day, 6 days
a
> week, finish a complete plane with engine in one month? What things
should
> we do to prepare for this effort. Obviously trying to get some hands on
> with sheet metal work would go a long way. Any advice will be much
> appreciated.
>
> Kurt Johnson
Kurt,
It would be a little optimistic to presume a set of wings in a month because
of the
head work involved. If you're doing a kit, it might be possible, but you'd
be in a rush
to completion and I'd not be willing to fly in a bird that was done that
way. Building
aircraft is a process that takes a lot of reflection and self-examination.
You have to be willing to make parts twice, some three times to get it
right.
In a rush, you's probably feel the need to excuse and skip important detail.
The 701 is a design that is good enough to take the time necessary to do it
right.
I've been on a 601 for nearly 4 years now, "just sheet metal and rivets" and
a good set of plans and will hopefully fly this summer. You need to enjoy
the process
or you'll never be able to finish it.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
--- Bill Howerton <Bill@Howerton.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton"
> <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> In addition to the raw building time that everyone here is
> mentioning, you
> will see that you will spend quite a bit of time just simply studying
> the
> plans, and time spent on this thread (or with ZAC) trying to get a
> clarification of one issue or another. Everytime I get ready to
> start a new
> section, I usually spend at least 2-3 nights diligently studying what
> I'm
> about to do, and how it is to be done. Furthermore, you need to
> study not
> just the upcoming section, but also the two or three following it.
> It is
> very very difficult to un-cut or un-drill metal, so the study is
> necessary.
>
> Bill Howerton
> - N714BH -
> 601XL Corvair
>
I remember something I learned when I studied carpentry... Our old
Mentor use to say: "Meassure twice, cut once" The most time consuming
things in building a ZAC kit (in my point of view) are: Study the
plans, finishing the details and debur...
Saludos
Gary Gower
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
<snip>
can two men, working 10-12 hours a day, 6 days a
week, finish a complete plane with engine in one month?
<endsnip>
Kurt:
Over the years I have built a boat, three vehicles and now I'm almost one
year into an airplane. Your questions remind me of a theme I have re-lived
several times and I see in every person who tries something new.
The four stages of Ability:
1. Unconscious Inability. Where you don't know what you don't know.
(Where you are now.)
2. Conscious Inability. "Wow this is harder than I thought." Where you
know what you don't know. (Day 31 into your project and it's not finished)
3. Conscious Ability. Now you have had a little practice, you know what
you can do. (At this time you make a realistic schedule based on what you
know you can do.)
4. Unconscious Ability. This is when you can do something without thinking
about it. (You finish 1 month ahead of your schedule because of all your
hard work and dedication.)
I think you will see this happen to you after you start this project. The
worst thing you can do is NOT start.
Happy building (and learning),
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN.
http://wine.msn.com/
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Fastest build of a 701 was at Oshkosh (and maybe some other flyins). My
aviation print tent was next to Zenith.
Sunday they slid a large box and a small one into their tent and set up a
table. The PA announcer asked for 6 volunteers, 3 men and 3 gals. With only
directions from the Zenith people, these 6 (without prior tool experience) put
the 701 kit together and hung the engine. By the next Sunday, last day of the
show, controls, and basic instruments were installed. FAA on the field signed
off for a demonstration flight and Nick (I think) flew it. Strong winds nearly
precluded any flight but it was spectacular. Near vertical take-off and
landings.
My own case, building as I have time and money while earning a living, I
unloaded the kit 01.15.2002. Today its is ready for wiring and plumbing with
the engine hung. My Kitlog (kit plane record software) shows 700 hours. I have
included about half of the hours spent studying plans and ordering the items not
included, like some instruments, radios, transponder, lights, and prop. Engine
Jabiru 3300. Prop Prince P-Tip. Anywhere Map GPS, X-com radio and transponder.
Hal Rozema
theplanefolks.net
Kurt Johnson wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kurt Johnson" <compair6@earthlink.net>
>
> Hey Fella's,
>
> My father and I are looking at building a 701 this summer. Neither of us
> has any experience with building aircraft or working with sheet metal and
> rivets. With this in mind; can two men, working 10-12 hours a day, 6 days a
> week, finish a complete plane with engine in one month? What things should
> we do to prepare for this effort. Obviously trying to get some hands on
> with sheet metal work would go a long way. Any advice will be much
> appreciated.
>
> Kurt Johnson
>
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Dixon" <dix39@charter.net>
On the other hand, a 701 with a Subaru powerplant was built in seven days at
Oshkosh, and it flew away after the show. Of course there were lots of
workers, and some of them had "considerable" experience with building and
this airplane. I only bring this up to point out that it can be done pretty
fast, not that you should plan on doing yours in that amount of time. Mine
has been in my garage several years.
Steve Dixon
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: <CBRxxDRV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Build Time
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/9/04 11:02:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> compair6@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > My father and I are looking at building a 701 this summer. Neither of
us
> > has any experience with building aircraft or working with sheet metal
and
> > rivets. With this in mind; can two men, working 10-12 hours a day, 6
days a
> > week, finish a complete plane with engine in one month? What things
should
> > we do to prepare for this effort. Obviously trying to get some hands on
> > with sheet metal work would go a long way. Any advice will be much
> > appreciated.
> >
>
> NO
>
> Even if you attack this as a job it would take longer than a month.
> 3 to 4 hours a night, 4 nights a week seems good for me. I stay
> fresh and don't get burned out as long as I see progress.
> 2 people working will not cut the time in half. I like to work alone
> because it keeps me focused and on task. My first plane I thought
> that I could get 12 hours in on a Sunday....no way. 8 hours max and it can
> stop being fun if you push too hard. Tonight I watched some TV and
> then decided that nothing good was on so in the garage I went for a
> couple hours. A goal is good but a year would be a better goal.
>
> Every time I finish a project I want to do another. I learn new skills
> and when I am done have better ideas. This is a learning process and
> the Zenair is more forgiving than some other kits.....jump in and enjoy.
> Buy the rudder and take the class if you can. This Zenair (N826W)
> is practice for the next one.
>
>
> Sal Capra
> Lakeland, FL
> My Home Page
> http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
>
>
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Zenith sells a LOT more rudders than ultimately completed aircraft.
This is NOT a reflection on Zenith.
ZAC actively courts any and all who might be interested in constructing an
airplane.
That's their bread an butter.
ZAC offers a two-day "build-a-rudder" school. It is an excellent way to get
started, to meet ZAC, and learn something of your abilities, or lack thereof.
Unfortunately not everybody is mechanically inclined, some are too impatient,
some overlook the commitment in time and money. A thousand other reasons.
Therefore all who attend school do not later build a flying machine.
This is NOT intended to sway you away from the project, but any potential
builder should be realistic. A completely empty two-car garage may not be large
enough, although we always hear horror stories about the one-armed blind guy
who built an 801 in a phone booth without benefit of power tools or food.
One needs to have a work area where he can start and stop at will. If you
must drive some distance, or must inventory your tools at each session, or there
is a danger of rug rats getting into the project you need to consider some
alternate method.
I would bet a small steak dinner that ten builders on this list could spend
one week together, with all the parts & pieces & tools laid out on the floor,
study & assign work amongst themselves, and then set about the building
process. This group would then produce a really nice 701 in twenty days.
Of course on the twenty-first day there would be a large gang fight about the
listing order of names on the paperwork.
We ARE a different breed of cat.
Zed Smith/701/912/the tow bar works good/605 hours and enjoying it.
Don't forget to take time out for Green Bay to beat Philly by 10.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fuel Management update |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Walt Cannon" <grnlake@earthlink.net>
List,
I have been keeping a close ear to Lowell's fuel management woes as well as
initiating a request for information myself recently. I am very near to
flying my 701/912s with the most basic and current fuel system
configuration.
- Two wing tanks
- Individual shut off valves at the wing root for fuel management capability
and to prevent cross flow if parked on a transverse slope
- "T" fitting at the rear spar carry through
- Down to a boost pump
- Through the gascolator behind the seat
- Shut off valve by the flap handle
- Through the firewall
- To the mechanical pump
- Split to the carbs
This is exactly to the current plans with the exception of the boost pump,
which I chose to put in as a contingency. I thought about it quite a bit,
asked the list, and called ZAC. No one including ZAC could answer whether
the fuel gravity head in an extreme attitude was enough to keep the engine
supplied if a mechanical pump failure occurred. The pump cost me $25 and a
couple of hours to put in. The switch and wiring were almost nothing.
Seems to me like a reasonable level of additional complexity for the
redundancy. Who knows, maybe the engine would run with the mechanical pump
out of the loop. I could easily try that during the ground testing that I am
doing. Just run a temp fuel line from the firewall bulkhead fitting to the
carb feed "T" and fire it up. If I really wanted to ring it out, I guess I
could tie it down with the nose elevated and quarter tanks and see if it
would sustain a high power run for a short period of time.
Any comments? Anybody already done this work?
Thanks,
Walt Cannon
Seattle, WA
Message 12
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| Subject: | Did you see in KitPlanes? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
To all who are building Zeniths:
If you get KitPlanes magazine, current issue (Feb 2004) look at page 79,
the bottom right side under
"Next Month in Kitplanes"
Jon
Do not archive
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 1/9/2004 10:02:22 PM Central Standard Time,
compair6@earthlink.net writes:
>
> My father and I are looking at building a 701 this summer. Neither of us
> has any experience with building aircraft or working with sheet metal and
> rivets. With this in mind; can two men, working 10-12 hours a day, 6 days a
> week, finish a complete plane with engine in one month? What things should
> we do to prepare for this effort. Obviously trying to get some hands on
> with sheet metal work would go a long way. Any advice will be much
> appreciated.
>
Kurt, & Kurt's Dad.
Ahead of time things, as you asked for.
As already commented upon, study of the plans needs to come first. ZAC let me
have purchase credit for the ahead of time plans when I bought the kit later.
So, ask for that when you buy the plans. Study the plans by sub assy section
to keep in perspective. They do all fit together.
By all means try to attend a ZAC weekend rudder work shop AHEAD OF TIME. It
is the way to "Break the Code" on how the 701 is designed and assembled. Great
experience. I bought my kit at the end of the workshop. And picked it up later
with a full sized van.
Wood working tools are a BIG help. Band saw with metal cutting blade to cut
the aluminum with,,,and Disc/belt sander to trim & smooth with. Drill press too.
Build a work table ahead of time & set up shop. Join an EAA chapter for Tech
Counselor support. And support from other home builders & A&P's. Get a list
from ZAC of 701 & 601 builders in your area. Lists are by State, so ask for
what you need.
For sheet metal work learning ahead of time, ask to visit/help other ZAC
builders & EAA friends. Many will be glad to help you. Ask around to find a
retired A&P mech., in your area. Perhaps some of these folks will have tools/clecos
that you can use. Things to build with don't need to be new.
Study up on sheet metal work ahead of time, EAA & FAA hand books. EAA books
by Tony Bingles can be bought or borrowed? EAA Local Chapter again.
In one month you could have the airframe on it's wheels and perhaps the wings
fitted too. By that time you would be very committed to completing it.
Many of the sub assys can be completed afterwards, like the slats & ailerons,
they want to be fitted to their own position on their own wing anyway.
Instrument panel can be worked up ahead of time, and after for that matter. Tail
sections bolt on after the fuselage is ready. Lot's of other things are added
later, fuel lines, wiring, control cables and on.
Remember that there are thirteen separate airfoils for the 701. Building the
rudder helps to understand a lot of how the rest go together.
Having some help along the way, other Zenith builders, would help to smooth
out the difficult steps. As in fitting skins to the wings, H stab & elevator.
The 701 is a millimeter airplane. Buy the ZAC mm tape measure, and mm flat
scales at Wall Mart. Learn about the Avex rivets as used by ZAC. Get the CORRECT
drill bits for the rivets. Get an air rivet puller, Harbor Freight has a
good, inexpensive one. Have ZAC modify the heads for both rivet sizes.
So, how far could you get in one month? Very far indeed. Read the ZAC
builders book, comes with the plans, on the steps to finish the rough edges,
corrosion treat, pilot drill/finish drill & deburr, and don't take a lot of time
to
admire your work along the way. These skills should be easy to have before you
start for real.
It can be fun, and a good learning adventure at the same time. I hope that
you go for it.
J Erickson, A&P, EAA Ch 32
701SP in work. If you live near St. Louis, you are welcome to visit & go over
such things as above.
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: ALEMBIC7@aol.com
Kurt,
I highly recommend taking the "rudder workshop" that ZAC offers, it really
gets you into working with sheet metal and the ZAC modus operandi. You will also
have a great time, meet a bunch of fellow builders on whom you can rely later
for support and information...and when you're done you have a rudder to hang
in your garage and motivate you.
AZ Lurker
701 rudder/ engine unkown.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912UL CHT's |
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" <rbauer@intergate.com>
So getting the Grand Rapids EIS 4000 is the wrong choice,...the 3rd & 4th
CHT will not be used?
Should I just get the EIS 2004?
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rotax 912UL CHT's
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
>
> There are two CHT sensors that come with that engine. One on either
> side. They are really liquid temperatures.
>
> Frank
>
> >On the 912 UL/S2, is there a CHT sensor on each cylinder? I'm
> considering
> >getting the EIS 4000 for the 912 to monitor everything that I can.
>
> do not archive
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Jab 3300 CHT, EGT monitoring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net>
Greetings,
Related to the post on the 912UL CHT's. I had looked at the EIS and some of the
other
engine monitors. One in particular had readouts for 4 EGT and 4 CHT. Would you
need
a six cylinder monitor unit for the Jab 3300, or is 4 readings sufficient?
Thanks,
Eric
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
I just want to let everybody know how happy I am with the service and tech support
I've been receiving from Pete and John at USJabiru. They are unflaggingly
helpful and supportive, and I didn't even buy a new engine from them (they had
a used one on sale).
Bob Miller
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
Enjoy the building process and always be keenly aware that one day you will
be sitting on the end of a runway with the stick in one hand and throttle in
the other. Even after a lot of preparation, checking and re-checking it
still takes some nerve to push the throttle in. Any questions in the back
of your mind about what you built will loom large. I spent a whole month
just checking everything over, and testing out at the airport before the
wheels left the ground.
2 things caused me stress while building: first making mistakes and the
second was some part taking longer to build than my pre-conceived notion.
Especially when I had just started the project, the second source of stress
led to the first many times.
Happy building,
Greg
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroflash Strobes - Position Lights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
I got a good laugh out of the comments below. I never had any warning
regarding as was mentioned. Last Wednesday, I felt like feeding my power
supply to Aeroflash. When I opened-up the power supply, I removed the
capacitor. The capacitor is a proprietary part for Aeroflash from United
Chemie-con. They will not sell one. Aeroflash also refuses to sell a
capacitor. The explanation I got was that their insurance forbids them from
doing so. She told me that she wouldn't want me to have to bear the
responsibility of installing a new capacitor. After some loud involuntary
laughter, I told her that I built the hole plane so this risk is something I
could deal with quite well. In the end, all I could do was to either buy a
new or re-conditioned unit. I chose the recon unit for $47. I could have
installed a different capacitor from another manufacturer, but I couldn't
get any information on what was special about Areoflashes capacitor from
United, so I played it conservative.
After being what I would call thoroughly screwed, you might think they would
make a real effort to get it to me ASAP right? I ordered the part Wed. at
~8AM. I'm in Iowa, one shipping day away from Aeroflash and I don't have
the part yet.
Greg
> It has been added since I got my 801 kit in 2-2001. I can assure you that
I
> will take those precautions but if they fail soon after, I WILL fly to the
> Aeroflash factory and feed it to someone if they say I should have known
there
> was a defect in their unit...Ben Haas N801BH.
Message 20
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| Subject: | 601XL Dual stick order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
Has anyone else ordered the dual-stick option for their 601XL? I ordered
mine back in August along with the rest of my controls kit. As of today,
it still hasn't arrived. When the controls kit arrived, I was told it
wasn't quite ready, and was being back-ordered. I've called them
periodically since then and each time I'm told it'll be ready next month.
Needless to say "next month" comes and goes, and my order doesn't arrive.
I'm now at the point that my building may have to stop for awhile until it
gets here.
I know that ZAC is a good company, so I'm not really worried, per se. I'll
give them another call on Monday, to find out what's going on, and I'm sure
eventually it's gonna get here. I'm just wondering if anyone else ordered
the dual stick, and if so, has theirs arrived?
Message 21
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| Subject: | Fuel Management success |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
List,
As I had surmised and a lot of you also thought, my routing of the vent line
back down under the seat and then up to the top of the wing was the problem.
Yesterday I spent the day rerouting the vent line. I hated to drill a hole through
the top skin of the boot cowl directly above the top right hand "D" header
inlet but I did it. It looks a little shi--y but I put a grommet in the hole
and ran a clear Tygon 1/4 ID line up through it and up to the high point vent
in the wing , running the line along the cabin pillar.
I filled the system today and the header filled. A benefit not expected is
that as the header topped off I could see the vent tube fill. Now I have a
visual indicator telling me when the wing tanks are empty and I am running on
the header.
I guess an ugly line through the top of the boot cowl is a lot easier to look
at than a pile of wrinkled up aluminum out in a field somewhere.
Thanks for all of the suggestions. One more solo XC and a check ride by the
FAA examiner an I'll get my ship in the air. That run out old 152 with an
ate out interior that I'm taking lesson in is not my idea of flying.
Lowell Metz
701
Venice FL.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroflash Strobes - Position Lights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Tauch" <erictauch@comcast.net>
I dont see what would be special about their cap, unless it has something to
do with vibration (ruggedized).
I guess it could also be a special form factor (ie large uF value, high
voltage, small form factor).
Caps are also rated by ESR which specifies their performance over frequency
(how much R is in series
with the model of perfect capacitance). This has more to do with high
frequency applications and wouldnt
affect anything here, except perhaps the discharge time (insignificantly).
I think if I could find a suitable size with like voltage rating, I would
atleast give it a try. From
what I understand the powersupplies are at the wingtips where you shouldnt
have much engine vibration
anyway. The temp is something to look at too, as there is a large heatsink
on the pictures I have seen.
Too little too late, but info for others with the same trouble.
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Strobes - Position Lights
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
>
> I got a good laugh out of the comments below. I never had any warning
> regarding as was mentioned. Last Wednesday, I felt like feeding my power
> supply to Aeroflash. When I opened-up the power supply, I removed the
> capacitor. The capacitor is a proprietary part for Aeroflash from United
> Chemie-con. They will not sell one. Aeroflash also refuses to sell a
> capacitor. The explanation I got was that their insurance forbids them
from
> doing so. She told me that she wouldn't want me to have to bear the
> responsibility of installing a new capacitor. After some loud involuntary
> laughter, I told her that I built the hole plane so this risk is something
I
> could deal with quite well. In the end, all I could do was to either buy
a
> new or re-conditioned unit. I chose the recon unit for $47. I could have
> installed a different capacitor from another manufacturer, but I couldn't
> get any information on what was special about Areoflashes capacitor from
> United, so I played it conservative.
>
> After being what I would call thoroughly screwed, you might think they
would
> make a real effort to get it to me ASAP right? I ordered the part Wed. at
> ~8AM. I'm in Iowa, one shipping day away from Aeroflash and I don't have
> the part yet.
>
> Greg
>
>
> > It has been added since I got my 801 kit in 2-2001. I can assure you
that
> I
> > will take those precautions but if they fail soon after, I WILL fly to
the
> > Aeroflash factory and feed it to someone if they say I should have known
> there
> > was a defect in their unit...Ben Haas N801BH.
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Dual stick order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: B K Johnson <wa7dvd@comcast.net>
I also ordered the dual control along with control kit and fuselage kit. Mine
is also still on back order. Fortunately I am still some time from needing it.
-Bruce Johnson-
N601BK (reserved)
Bill Howerton wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> Has anyone else ordered the dual-stick option for their 601XL? I ordered
> mine back in August along with the rest of my controls kit. As of today,
> it still hasn't arrived.
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kurt Johnson" <compair6@earthlink.net>
Some really great responses. Thank you very much. A little detail may
help. I'm in the Army in Al. and my father is in Ohio. He has a great
workshop on his farm that we will build in. I planned on taking a months
leave this summer or fall and really buckling down with him. I've been
studying the kitplane market for over five years and some of the things I've
learned were reiterated by y'all many times:
The fun is in the process of it all...
Factory build times in general are greatly exagerated...
A local EAA chapter is invaluable...
You can never study the plans enough...
I just received today a list of builders in my area and my dad's. 29
builders in Ohio alone!! He is visiting a couple of gentlemen who are
building from plans on Wednesday. We will most likely do the rudder
workshop before we delve into the kit. I will probably buy the manuals in
advance so I can study them intently before we get started. The goal will
not be to fly off the farmyard in 30 days but I would like to take on the
adventure of trying.
Thank you all again for the great input and I'm sure I will be tapping into
this resource more often than you'll like.
Kurt
not ordered...yet
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912UL CHT's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 1/10/2004 1:58:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
rbauer@INTERGATE.COM writes:
>
> So getting the Grand Rapids EIS 4000 is the wrong choice,...the 3rd & 4th
> CHT will not be used?
> Should I just get the EIS 2004?
>
> Rich
>
Rich. I thought you were going with a LYC :??????
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912UL CHT's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
Rich,
The Rotax 912 only has 2 CHT terminals to hook up to anyway. On the # 1
and #4 cylinders. You can get the Grand Rapids EIS with the optional 4
EGT's and a fuel flow feature too.
Lowell Metz
----- Original Message -----
From: <Benford2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912UL CHT's
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/10/2004 1:58:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> rbauer@INTERGATE.COM writes:
>
>
> >
> > So getting the Grand Rapids EIS 4000 is the wrong choice,...the 3rd &
4th
> > CHT will not be used?
> > Should I just get the EIS 2004?
> >
> > Rich
> >
>
> Rich. I thought you were going with a LYC :??????
>
>
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Got my package from ZAC today , super nice info and video, really think I'll build
a 701 next, this is a great site,have learned a lot.so all I can say is THANKS
!!
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Dual stick order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Bill,
I am sure that they are double checking and testing the system, I will
be happy to wait until they say its ready, Think about this: Do you
prefer them to be the test pilots or you? :-) :-) Now serious, test
and double check time is in favor of us, builders.
When we were convinced that we wanted a 701, we 3 (Dad, Larry and Me)
concluded that we were going for a dual-stick, that weird looking
control stick was not for us, we thought.
Well, I didnt had the chance to go to the rudder program, or havent got
on any Zac airplane, but both (Larry and Dad) got convinced about the
"weird looking control" benefits, just with the test flight with
Roger...
Now that the first 701 is almost ready, we realy like our plane the way
it is. In fact we ordered a 601XL kit (with normal Y stick) and is
still on the box, waiting for the 2 701 to get finished.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Bill Howerton <Bill@Howerton.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton"
> <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> Has anyone else ordered the dual-stick option for their 601XL? I
> ordered
> mine back in August along with the rest of my controls kit. As of
> today,
> it still hasn't arrived. When the controls kit arrived, I was told
> it
> wasn't quite ready, and was being back-ordered. I've called them
> periodically since then and each time I'm told it'll be ready next
> month.
> Needless to say "next month" comes and goes, and my order doesn't
> arrive.
> I'm now at the point that my building may have to stop for awhile
> until it
> gets here.
>
> I know that ZAC is a good company, so I'm not really worried, per se.
> I'll
> give them another call on Monday, to find out what's going on, and
> I'm sure
> eventually it's gonna get here. I'm just wondering if anyone else
> ordered
> the dual stick, and if so, has theirs arrived?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Dual stick order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 1/10/04 3:21 PM, "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> Has anyone else ordered the dual-stick option for their 601XL? I ordered
> mine back in August along with the rest of my controls kit. As of today,
> it still hasn't arrived. When the controls kit arrived, I was told it
> wasn't quite ready, and was being back-ordered. I've called them
> periodically since then and each time I'm told it'll be ready next month.
> Needless to say "next month" comes and goes, and my order doesn't arrive.
> I'm now at the point that my building may have to stop for awhile until it
> gets here.
>
> I know that ZAC is a good company, so I'm not really worried, per se. I'll
> give them another call on Monday, to find out what's going on, and I'm sure
> eventually it's gonna get here. I'm just wondering if anyone else ordered
> the dual stick, and if so, has theirs arrived?
>
>
I ordered on July 25 (the day they went online). Same experience here...
I've had some correspondence and have indicated that I'm installing a center
line power quadrant and am now committed to this path of construction. I'm
a few weeks away from halted progress too and ZAC now knows this. ZAC
assures me that it will be available soon. No choice but to hang in there.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Dual stick order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 1/10/04 6:22 PM, "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> Think about this: Do you
> prefer them to be the test pilots or you?
Me! We all are anyway! Thanks for the chuckle!
Ray Montagne, Cupertino, CA
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