---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/15/04: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:33 AM - Re: Bending brake question (Rick Pitcher) 2. 10:51 AM - Aircraft Paint (Michel Therrien) 3. 11:09 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/14/04 (Brett Hanley) 4. 12:32 PM - Re: Bending brake question (Gary Liming) 5. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/14/04 (Scott Laughlin) 6. 01:51 PM - Re: Bending brake question (Aaron) 7. 02:08 PM - R;re;Bending brake (Kevin W Bonds) 8. 03:36 PM - HDS Wings for sale...... (john tarabocchia) 9. 04:39 PM - Re: HDS Wings for sale...... (Bill Cardell) 10. 07:34 PM - Re: Aircraft Paint (Greg Ferris) 11. 07:46 PM - Re: Aircraft Paint (Jim Kepford) 12. 10:44 PM - Re: Aircraft Paint (Kevin W Bonds) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:36 AM PST US From: Rick Pitcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending brake question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher Kevin W Bonds wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" > > I am just starting the building process. I have not yet bought the plans (but am signed up for the workshop) so I need some suggestions. If one were going to buy a small bending break to plansbuild--planning on buying longer parts from ZAC--and had a choice of a 30" or 40" brake (Harbor Freight Central Machinery) which one would be best? Are there many parts that I could bend myself with 40" but not 30" brake? Does anyone have experience with these Central Machinery brakes? Is the 40" brake strong enouph in the middle? > > Kevin Bonds I bought one of the Harbor Freight combo's that you're talking about, the 30". I really just wanted the shear but ended up using the brake a LOT. I paid a local sheet-metal shop $100 to bend all the bigger stuff and used the combo tool for the rest. The radius is a little too tight, but yo can shear off a piece of .025 and put a tight bend in it you can slip it over the upper dies and get a larger radius. The 30# shear even worked for trimming the 8' long skins. I rough cut them with the air shears within 1/4 inch of the line, then used the shears like scissors, trimming ~25 at a time then sliding the sheet to thr right and trimming another ~25". At $260 it was well worth the bucks. Rick P. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:01 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Paint --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Hello group! Now that my plane is almost completed, I am thinking about painting it. A cousin who owns a body shop (he paint cars) will come home in a couple of weeks. I would like to know what is best from the following stand points: . Durability . Flexibility . Weight My cousin prefers using a base coat/clear coat car paint system. I also heard about Sico Acrythane industrial paint. Then there are the PPG systems and of course, the usual aircraft paint. Any input on this topic would be very much appreciated. Michel ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:30 AM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/14/04 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley A 40 inch break may be handy in the shop but will not make the long bends you need for many parts. Check out Larry McFarland's 601 web site. He has designed a beautiful break for eight foot bends. His site can be located in the zenith builders page. Check out the sites below as well. http://www.orilliapronet.com/rsw.engineering/credit.htm http://www3.sympatico.ca/murray.j/tools.htm Brett 701 San Jose, Costa Rica --- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be > found in either > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file > includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and > features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file > includes the plain ASCII > version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-01-14.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-01-14.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > Zenith-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed > 01/14/04: 2 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:01 PM - re bending brake (roy vickski) > 2. 01:48 PM - Re: re bending brake > (Flydog1966@aol.com) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:01:41 PM PST US > From: roy vickski > Subject: Zenith-List: re bending brake > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski > > > The brake Mr Bonds refers to I think is the 3 in 1 > combo press brake, shear ,roll. The press brake has > its advantages in forming hat and zee sections but > the > upper dies would need modified for the 1/8 " radius > and the lower die would require rounding and > polishing. The shear you will find invaluable and > the > slip roll less so. The size of sheet goods a plans > builder deals with are 4'x12', and many of the > control > surface spars exceed 5'in length on a 701, the > longerons 6'. To attempt bending the .040 (18ga) > longerons in anything less than an 8'x16guage > commercial brake or equivalant(with radius die and > proper adjustment) is an excercise in frustration. > > Buy the plan, do the material take off and sheet > layout (on paper), figure out what the 40" brake > will > and won't handle and make a decision. > > IMHO it would make a nice addition to a well > equiped > shop or a decent beginning of one. > What you save by plans building is partially offset > by > the cost of tool aquisition and the learning curve > of > building parts to meet tolerance. > > Disclaimer; I have never used one of the 3in1 > machines > and cannot comment on its suitability, best bet is > to > road test somebody else's. > > Roy Szarafinski (tool junkie) > 701sp plans, 48"16ga box and pan brake, 30"pexto > shear > (too small),metal band saw,wood band saw,disc-belt > sander,lathe,mill,welders,hammers,vices,clamps,levels, > lots of clecos, router, dremel, time, patience, > drill > press, determination,etc. > > do not archive > > __________________________________ > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:48:44 PM PST US > From: Flydog1966@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re bending brake > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > Flydog1966@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/14/04 3:03:02 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > rvickski@yahoo.com writes: > > << Disclaimer; I have never used one of the 3in1 > machines > and cannot comment on its suitability, best bet is > to > road test somebody else's. >> > > The shear,brake,roll, I used to have access to was > a total piece of crap! > But no... > can not remember the brand name now. It was > cheap Chinese junk. > I took a look at the brake plans on the Vans > website....looks > extreamly like > the plans Zenith used to offer. > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > === message truncated === __________________________________ http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:47 PM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending brake question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming I am not a scratch builder, so the needs are somewhat different than a kit builder, but for my money, a large brake is something better borrowed. If you look around, you may find a high school or community college shop or local sheet metal company that has one you can borrow on occasion for the long bends. This not only saves some money, but more importantly, it doesn't take up any more shop space. Having said that, I have found the 18 inch (about $20) simple brake from Harbor Freight very useful in making things like mounting brackets, an avionics stack, a map box, center console, etc. Just IMHO, your mileage may vary. Gary Liming www.liming.org/ch801 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:54 PM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/14/04 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" If you are interested in Larry McFarland's brake, you can see how I built one at: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Brake.html It took some determination, but Larry's plans are good and the end product is excellent. Good luck, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/14/04 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley A 40 inch break may be handy in the shop but will not make the long bends you need for many parts. Check out Larry McFarland's 601 web site. He has designed a beautiful break for eight foot bends. His site can be located in the zenith builders page. Check out the sites below as well. http://www.orilliapronet.com/rsw.engineering/credit.htm http://www3.sympatico.ca/murray.j/tools.htm Brett 701 San Jose, Costa Rica --- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be > found in either > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file > includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and > features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file > includes the plain ASCII > version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-01-14.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-01-14.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > Zenith-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed > 01/14/04: 2 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:01 PM - re bending brake (roy vickski) > 2. 01:48 PM - Re: re bending brake > (Flydog1966@aol.com) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:01:41 PM PST US > From: roy vickski > Subject: Zenith-List: re bending brake > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski > > > The brake Mr Bonds refers to I think is the 3 in 1 > combo press brake, shear ,roll. The press brake has > its advantages in forming hat and zee sections but > the > upper dies would need modified for the 1/8 " radius > and the lower die would require rounding and > polishing. The shear you will find invaluable and > the > slip roll less so. The size of sheet goods a plans > builder deals with are 4'x12', and many of the > control > surface spars exceed 5'in length on a 701, the > longerons 6'. To attempt bending the .040 (18ga) > longerons in anything less than an 8'x16guage > commercial brake or equivalant(with radius die and > proper adjustment) is an excercise in frustration. > > Buy the plan, do the material take off and sheet > layout (on paper), figure out what the 40" brake > will > and won't handle and make a decision. > > IMHO it would make a nice addition to a well > equiped > shop or a decent beginning of one. > What you save by plans building is partially offset > by > the cost of tool aquisition and the learning curve > of > building parts to meet tolerance. > > Disclaimer; I have never used one of the 3in1 > machines > and cannot comment on its suitability, best bet is > to > road test somebody else's. > > Roy Szarafinski (tool junkie) > 701sp plans, 48"16ga box and pan brake, 30"pexto > shear > (too small),metal band saw,wood band saw,disc-belt > sander,lathe,mill,welders,hammers,vices,clamps,levels, > lots of clecos, router, dremel, time, patience, > drill > press, determination,etc. > > do not archive > > __________________________________ > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:48:44 PM PST US > From: Flydog1966@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re bending brake > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > Flydog1966@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/14/04 3:03:02 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > rvickski@yahoo.com writes: > > << Disclaimer; I have never used one of the 3in1 > machines > and cannot comment on its suitability, best bet is > to > road test somebody else's. >> > > The shear,brake,roll, I used to have access to was > a total piece of crap! > But no... > can not remember the brand name now. It was > cheap Chinese junk. > I took a look at the brake plans on the Vans > website....looks > extreamly like > the plans Zenith used to offer. > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > === message truncated === __________________________________ http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:19 PM PST US From: "Aaron" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending brake question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" I made a 49" brake similar to the one Zenith has plans for and hung it from the ceiling on hinges so when its not needed it stores folded up against the ceiling out of the way. works good. Aaron ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:54 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Zenith-List: R;re;Bending brake --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" I have been reading the very helpful responses to my question. Thank you all for giving my problem your consideration. I had already looked into some of the suggestions like Scott's page (more than I want to tackle) and Murray Johnson's simple design (a possibility) but I think for now I am going to try and make do with something smaller. Originally I was referring to one of the simple brakes at HF (not combo) I Haven't found a brake/shear yet that I am completely sold on. I still have some questions being that I've never used one of these things before. I still may be a little confused about how the different machines work. I understand that the press/brake is not the best way to go and since the only shears I have seen at reasonable prices are press brake combos I don't think I want one of those. Right? Assuming I can find someone to do the long bends for me I still would like to add a piece of equipment that I could do small stuff on, and Rick's post about using a smaller shear like large snips to cut larger pieces would be nice I suppose if I can find a unit I like at a good price. Otherwise I'll just use some other method of cutting. I'm getting this stuff figured--out with your help--and having a lot of fun. Thanks Kevin Bonds Nashville, Tn ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:47 PM PST US From: "john tarabocchia" Subject: Zenith-List: HDS Wings for sale...... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "john tarabocchia" Hello gang, I plan on building a set of HD wing panels. I currently have HDS outer wing panels (not center section). I don't have a need for two sets of wings so I plan to sell them. Specs: Wings will be kept on plane until March 1st. 2004 HDS wings currently painted blue , black, and white. Landing lights in each wing (100 Watts). 10.7 gallon intregal fuel tank in each (10 gal. Usable). Comes with gauges. Two access panels in each wing. Pitot tube with static air port and plumbing. 130 hours. Price: Wings without stobes, $1,200 plus crating and shipping cost. Wings with stobes (already installed and wired), $1,500. plus crating and shipping. Tons of pictures available on request. I can be contacted at (407) 709-7255, or on list. tarabocchia@peoplepc.com John W. Tarabocchia N6042T ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:52 PM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: HDS Wings for sale...... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell John, Just wondering, why are you swapping? Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: john tarabocchia [mailto:TARABOCCHIA@peoplepc.com] Subject: Zenith-List: HDS Wings for sale...... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "john tarabocchia" Hello gang, I plan on building a set of HD wing panels. I currently have HDS outer wing panels (not center section). I don't have a need for two sets of wings so I plan to sell them. Specs: Wings will be kept on plane until March 1st. 2004 HDS wings currently painted blue , black, and white. Landing lights in each wing (100 Watts). 10.7 gallon intregal fuel tank in each (10 gal. Usable). Comes with gauges. Two access panels in each wing. Pitot tube with static air port and plumbing. 130 hours. Price: Wings without stobes, $1,200 plus crating and shipping cost. Wings with stobes (already installed and wired), $1,500. plus crating and shipping. Tons of pictures available on request. I can be contacted at (407) 709-7255, or on list. tarabocchia@peoplepc.com John W. Tarabocchia N6042T ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:52 PM PST US From: "Greg Ferris" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aircraft Paint --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" I used Aerothane paint. I chose this product because it is very flexible. It is commonly used on fabric aircraft, but also on metal. With the .016" thick skins, I thought the flexibility was a crucial consideration for longevity. I'm happy with the results. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Therrien" Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Paint > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > Hello group! > > Now that my plane is almost completed, I am thinking > about painting it. A cousin who owns a body shop (he > paint cars) will come home in a couple of weeks. I > would like to know what is best from the following > stand points: > > . Durability > . Flexibility > . Weight > > My cousin prefers using a base coat/clear coat car > paint system. I also heard about Sico Acrythane > industrial paint. Then there are the PPG systems and > of course, the usual aircraft paint. > > Any input on this topic would be very much > appreciated. > > Michel > > > ===== > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > __________________________________ > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:48 PM PST US From: Jim Kepford Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aircraft Paint --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford Ive been lurking a while (trying to decide weather to build a 701 or a 601) but this a topic I know something about as a former auto body repairman and I also have a few thousand hours behind a paint gun in a scoreboard plant painting aluminum scoreboards. I would stick with what ever brand of paint your cousin is most familiar with most of the companies be it DuPont, PPG or SW. All of those companies have very good urethane paint products that will give a long life with little care. I used primarily PPG paints on score boards. The surface was washed with a good degreaser/cleaner and primed with a wash primer. That was allowed to flash and was top coated with paint using two coats. This is the lightest paint job you gonna get. When I paint my plane it will be primed with a trio prime and done 2 tone using a base coat clear coat system. Not quit as light but the filling properties of the trio prime will give a much nicer finish. I have a car out back in the north forty t hat I painted with a base coat clear coat (catalyzed enamel with a urethane clear top coat) 10 years ago. It has been setting in the sun ever since and it has yet to show any oxidation with no care at all. If you stick with all urethane products Flexibility will not be a problem, I have bent metal to a fairly small radius and not cracked the paint. Jim Greg Ferris wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" I used Aerothane paint. I chose this product because it is very flexible. It is commonly used on fabric aircraft, but also on metal. With the .016" thick skins, I thought the flexibility was a crucial consideration for longevity. I'm happy with the results. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Therrien" Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Paint > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > Hello group! > > Now that my plane is almost completed, I am thinking > about painting it. A cousin who owns a body shop (he > paint cars) will come home in a couple of weeks. I > would like to know what is best from the following > stand points: > > . Durability > . Flexibility > . Weight > > My cousin prefers using a base coat/clear coat car > paint system. I also heard about Sico Acrythane > industrial paint. Then there are the PPG systems and > of course, the usual aircraft paint. > > Any input on this topic would be very much > appreciated. > > Michel > > > ===== > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > __________________________________ > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:02 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aircraft Paint --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" Thanks Jim That one's going in my private archive for the future. That's one of the great things about this forum. . . everyone sharing their expertise. Kevin Bonds Nashville Tn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kepford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aircraft Paint > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford > > > Ive been lurking a while (trying to decide weather to build a 701 or a 601) but this a topic I know something about as a former auto body repairman and I also have a few thousand hours behind a paint gun in a scoreboard plant painting aluminum scoreboards. I would stick with what ever brand of paint your cousin is most familiar with most of the companies be it DuPont, PPG or SW. All of those companies have very good urethane paint products that will give a long life with little care. I used primarily PPG paints on score boards. The surface was washed with a good degreaser/cleaner and primed with a wash primer. That was allowed to flash and was top coated with paint using two coats. This is the lightest paint job you gonna get. When I paint my plane it will be primed with a trio prime and done 2 tone using a base coat clear coat system. Not quit as light but the filling properties of the trio prime will give a much nicer finish. I have a car out back in the north forty t > hat I > painted with a base coat clear coat (catalyzed enamel with a urethane clear top coat) 10 years ago. It has been setting in the sun ever since and it has yet to show any oxidation with no care at all. If you stick with all urethane products Flexibility will not be a problem, I have bent metal to a fairly small radius and not cracked the paint. > Jim > > Greg Ferris wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" > > I used Aerothane paint. I chose this product because it is very flexible. > It is commonly used on fabric aircraft, but also on metal. With the .016" > thick skins, I thought the flexibility was a crucial consideration for > longevity. I'm happy with the results. > > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michel Therrien" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Paint > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > > > Hello group! > > > > Now that my plane is almost completed, I am thinking > > about painting it. A cousin who owns a body shop (he > > paint cars) will come home in a couple of weeks. I > > would like to know what is best from the following > > stand points: > > > > . Durability > > . Flexibility > > . Weight > > > > My cousin prefers using a base coat/clear coat car > > paint system. I also heard about Sico Acrythane > > industrial paint. Then there are the PPG systems and > > of course, the usual aircraft paint. > > > > Any input on this topic would be very much > > appreciated. > > > > Michel > > > > > > ===== > > ---------------------------- > > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby > > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > > > __________________________________ > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > >