Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:29 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot & 601 HDS (WOldejr@aol.com)
2. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot & 601 HDS (Larry McFarland)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot & 601... (Benford2@aol.com)
4. 08:53 AM - VG's (The Meiste's)
5. 09:50 AM - Rear Fuselage X bracing (ruruNY@aol.com)
6. 10:25 AM - Fw: 701 fuselage stiffeners (Chuck Deiterich)
7. 10:46 AM - I am now "offically" building a CH 701 (Jim Kepford)
8. 10:49 AM - Re: VG's (Larry McFarland)
9. 11:20 AM - 582 Mount for 701 (MYSTERY MAN)
10. 11:43 AM - Re: VG's (Monty Graves)
11. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot & 601... (Flydog1966@aol.com)
12. 11:45 AM - Re: VG's (The Meiste's)
13. 12:12 PM - Re: VG's (Monty Graves)
14. 02:29 PM - 701 Rear Fuselage Wiring (Elwood140@aol.com)
15. 02:32 PM - Re: VG's (Hal Rozema)
16. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot & 601 HDS (john tarabocchia)
17. 02:57 PM - Re: VG's (john tarabocchia)
18. 04:56 PM - fuselage stiffeners (Tebenkof@aol.com)
19. 05:28 PM - test (Richard Cottingham)
20. 11:11 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot & 601 HDS (Brett Ray)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot & |
601 HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: WOldejr@aol.com
John, Larry, Craig
In reading your discusson, my thoughts turned to to some information about
Micro Vortex Generators that I picke up on another discussion group. The
company's web site can be found here:
http://www.microaero.com/
If you are only talking a couple of mph reduction to get the plane to qualify
in ths sportplane category this may fill the bill. The Kits only cost
$395.00. Cheaper than rebuilding a wing if time has value.
I am interested in your thoughts.
Respectfully
Ted
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot |
& 601 HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
> John, Larry, Craig
>
my thoughts turned to to some information about
> Micro Vortex Generators that I picked up on another discussion group. > If
you are only talking a couple of mph reduction to get the plane to qualify
>
> I am interested in your thoughts.
>
> Respectfully
>
> Ted
Ted,
I recall that Chris Heinz remarked that "Vortex Generators work best laminar
wings
with small radius leading edges, but have little benefit to the large radius
wings of the 601".
Still,,,,,,, the tabs might have just enough to bring HDS wings into the
Sport Plane Category.
Perhaps the question should be put to the makers of the Micro Vortex kits.
Larry McFarland
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot |
& 601...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 1/17/2004 7:29:48 AM Mountain Standard Time,
WOldejr@aol.com writes:
>
> If you are only talking a couple of mph reduction to get the plane to
> qualify
> in ths sportplane category this may fill the bill. The Kits only cost
> $395.00. Cheaper than rebuilding a wing if time has value.
>
> I am interested in your thoughts.
>
> Respectfully
>
> Ted
>
Cheaper then building a wing even if time had NO value.
My two cents worth.
Ben Haas N801BH . do not archive.
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
The Kits only cost $395.00. Cheaper than rebuilding a wing if time has
value.
> >
> > I am interested in your thoughts.
> >
> > Respectfully
> >
> > Ted
Heck your building a aircraft, I'm sure you can handle building a few VG's.
Save yourself $400 and cut some scrap aluminum strips 1 inch wide and then
cut the strips into 1 inch squares. Next just bend the one inch squares 90
degrees in the center, round the leading edge. Then go to the net and do a
little research as to the best location for your plane. Tape them on your
wing temporarily and try it. If you don't get the desired results move them
and try it again (yes we're experimental .... we're allowed to do that).
In short save your $400 and spend a few hours of your time and experiment.
My 40,000 cents.......
Kelly Meiste
601 HD
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rear Fuselage X bracing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ruruNY@aol.com
Jim,
Cut fit and drilled all X bracing to each fuselage wall but not top
skin. I did not rivet on x bracing until all walls were riveted to
eachother. You will have to crawl inside fuselage to drill and rivet
gussets. Complete bottom after thats done.
*********
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From:Brian Unruh
Subject:Rear Fuselage X bracing
Jim,
Cut fit and drilled all X bracing to each fuselage wall but not top
skin. I did not rivet on x bracing until all walls were riveted to
eachother. You will have to crawl inside fuselage to drill and rivet
gussets. Complete bottom after thats done.
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Message 6
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| Subject: | 701 fuselage stiffeners |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Deiterich <cfd@thegateway.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 fuselage stiffeners
> Jim,
>
> I made 6061T6 "L's" out of .016x 3/4" . You can see them in the attached
> photos. I put them on the sides only. After the rear fuselage was riveted
> together I crawled inside and using fluting pliers, I put small flutes in
> the .016 "L's" every couple of inches or so. I also fluted the rear
> fuselage .025 "L" frames all the way around. This causes the sides to bow
> out slightly and stiffens them to keep them from rattling. Adds almost no
> weight and .016 is plenty stiff. I developed a rattle in the bottom panel
> behind the bottom access opening and had to stiffen it, here I used
aluminum
> air conditioning tape bent to make an inverted "V"about 3/4 inches high
and
> stuck it to the floor.
>
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Tebenkof@aol.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:33 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 fuselage stiffeners
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
> >
> > Hello list members,
> >
> > It has come to my attention, as I come close to finishing the rear
> fuselage,
> > that some (many?, most?) 701 builders have added stiffeners for the
> large,
> > flat and otherwise unsupported areas of the rear fueslage. Is there
info
> > available on what approach builders are taking to this? I have seen the
> "X" shapes
> > on some photos on the ZAC site. Are most people doing this? Does it
seem
> to
> > make a real difference? Are there other designs people have used?
> >
> > As a first time builder I am a little surprised by the number of
> > unanticipated decisions to be made. But actually it makes me feel
pretty
> good. It really
> > is more than a big version of the plastic models of our childhoods. On
> the
> > other hand I am glad this site is here, and I will appreciate any help
> with
> > this.
> >
> > Also thanks to the people who responded to my question about amphib
floats
> > and tailwheels.
> >
> > Jim greenough
> > tebenkof@aol.com
> > Oregon
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | I am now "offically" building a CH 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford <snowy_91@yahoo.com>
I orded the compete list of tools and a tail kit this morning. :)
It aint much, but I gotta start somewhere!
Jim
---------------------------------
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: VG's
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
>
> Heck your building a aircraft, I'm sure you can handle building a few
VG's.
> Save yourself $400 and cut some scrap aluminum strips 1 inch wide and then
> cut the strips into 1 inch squares. Next just bend the one inch squares 90
> degrees in the center, round the leading edge. Then go to the net and do a
> little research as to the best location for your plane. Tape them on your
> wing temporarily and try it. If you don't get the desired results move
them
> and try it again (yes we're experimental .... we're allowed to do that).
> In short save your $400 and spend a few hours of your time and experiment.
> My 40,000 cents.......
>
> Kelly Meiste
> 601 HD
>
That's a great idea Kelly,,,,,,,,, Just a little duct tape and the angles,
probably .025
would suffice. I'd be willing to try it, but that's a little ways off yet.
Any takers?
Larry
Message 9
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| Subject: | 582 Mount for 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "MYSTERY MAN" <leb1944@hotmail.com>
Anyone know of a 582 mount available for a 701? Also need 912 engine.
High-speed usersbe more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
Here is a link to a plastic set that the ULite guys use a lot. $85 I
have seen a few UL planes that use them. The one pilot I spoke with
personally said he liked them, and he was convinced it reduced the stall
speed of 5 mph on his fabric wing...... but I don't own any. Buy at your
own risk. Monty
http://abianconi.hypermart.net/Vortex.htm
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot |
& 601...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
In a message dated 1/17/04 10:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
larrymc@qconline.com writes:
<< I recall that Chris Heinz remarked that "Vortex Generators work best
laminar
wings
with small radius leading edges, but have little benefit to the large radius
wings of the 601".
>>
In one of the old Zenith newsletters, there is info from C.Heintz, on
making, and installing, vortex generators, on a ch-701
do not archive
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> That's a great idea Kelly,,,,,,,,, Just a little duct tape and the
angles,
> probably .025
> would suffice. I'd be willing to try it, but that's a little ways off
yet.
> Any takers?
>
> Larry
As long as I suggested it I may as well give it a try (I think I still
remember how to bend metal???).
Seems I recall a figure of 10% of the wing's cord for an approx location,
then angle the VG's around 20 degrees about 1" apart, and a spacing of
around 6" between sets.
Don't no if they will have much affect on my fat HD wings but I'm willing to
give it a try.
To be continued .............................
Kelly
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
I knew I had another link in my bookmark file somewhere
A little different design, and pictures on making some for another UL
fabric plane.
start at page 18 and move forward with the next button. This firefly
pilot reported 4 mph reduction of stall speed
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly18.html
Message 14
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| Subject: | 701 Rear Fuselage Wiring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
Hi, All
I'm about to install wiring for the electric trim and tail light. Has anyone
taken pictures of a clean way to route the wiring?
Larry Wood
(N701LW reserved)
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Another way to stop oil canning of fuselage skin is to paint a 2 or 3" strip of
the sound deadening paint that Air Conditioning contractors use to stop the same
thing (noisy ducts) in their ductwork.
A couple coats, a few mils thick, breaks up the resonating frequencies so that
they don't vibrate.
In a 701 one can put it on any surface one can reach with a sponge applicator
taped to a stick, whilst standing in the access hatch.
(no rivets and little weight)
Hal Rozema
theplanefolks.net
VSTOL701/3300 80% 90 to go
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot |
& 601 HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john tarabocchia" <TARABOCCHIA@peoplepc.com>
How about we go one step further and discuss the use of both devices. Would
be interesting to know how slow we could really get the zodiac.
John
>
> http://www.microaero.com/
>
> If you are only talking a couple of mph reduction to get the plane to
qualify
> in ths sportplane category this may fill the bill. The Kits only cost
> $395.00. Cheaper than rebuilding a wing if time has value.
>
> I am interested in your thoughts.
>
> Respectfully
>
> Ted
>
>
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john tarabocchia" <TARABOCCHIA@peoplepc.com>
>
>
> Heck your building a aircraft, I'm sure you can handle building a few
VG's.
> Save yourself $400 and cut some scrap aluminum strips 1 inch wide and then
> cut the strips into 1 inch squares. Next just bend the one inch squares 90
> degrees in the center, round the leading edge. Then go to the net and do a
> little research as to the best location for your plane. Tape them on your
> wing temporarily and try it. If you don't get the desired results move
them
> and try it again (yes we're experimental .... we're allowed to do that).
> In short save your $400 and spend a few hours of your time and experiment.
> My 40,000 cents.......
>
> Kelly Meiste
> 601 HD
Now that's the spirit.
Message 18
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| Subject: | fuselage stiffeners |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
Thanks to all the people who responded with ideas about how to do the
fuselage stiffeners. Brian, the photos were especially useful. You do good work.
Jim Greenough
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Cottingham" <mrd@wn.com.au>
Hi All.Nav lights See Jans Stol CH701 on builders web pages project-cm701.net/start_ch701/schemati.php
This email mainly done as test.Read Zenith list,very good
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/16/04 Sport Pilot |
& 601 HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
Ya know what. Just don't tell anyone it has the speed wings on it. I
don't think anybody will be at the airport with a rader gun to check
for 2 or 3 mph. Just register it as the HD model. Besides I am sure
there are some HD planes out there that were built aaaa... shall we
say not so great, off a little here off a little there. And not meet
the stall speed but who is going to check? If I were you I would drop
the subject and not talk about it any more. After all its your plane
it stalls where ever you say it stalls.
But thats just me.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>
> > John, Larry, Craig
> >
> my thoughts turned to to some information about
> > Micro Vortex Generators that I picked up on another discussion
group. > If
> you are only talking a couple of mph reduction to get the plane to
qualify
> >
> > I am interested in your thoughts.
> >
> > Respectfully
> >
> > Ted
>
> Ted,
> I recall that Chris Heinz remarked that "Vortex Generators work best
laminar
> wings
> with small radius leading edges, but have little benefit to the
large radius
> wings of the 601".
>
> Still,,,,,,, the tabs might have just enough to bring HDS wings into
the
> Sport Plane Category.
>
> Perhaps the question should be put to the makers of the Micro Vortex
kits.
>
>
> Larry McFarland
>
>
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
-- Thanks
Brett Ray
owner Hog Air
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