---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/21/04: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:19 AM - Re: How to bend rudder horn? (701) (Eric Ingraham) 2. 05:02 AM - Plane Fun Fly-in (Florida) (CBRxxDRV@aol.com) 3. 05:59 AM - Re: Fuel tank can-o-worms (David Barth) 4. 06:22 AM - Re: How to bend rudder horn? (701) (Carlos Sa) 5. 07:13 AM - Re: How to bend rudder horn? (701) (Benford2@aol.com) 6. 07:15 AM - Re: Plane Fun Fly-in (Florida) (Benford2@aol.com) 7. 07:59 AM - Re: fuel quanity instumentation (Mike Fothergill) 8. 08:03 AM - Bending 701 rudder horn... (Bima, Martin) 9. 08:49 AM - Re: fuel quanity instumentation (royt.or@netzero.com) 10. 09:08 AM - Re: Fuel tank can-o-worms (Jack Russell) 11. 09:54 AM - Flying the 701 (Jeff Small) 12. 10:04 AM - Re: Fuel tank can-o-worms (Carlos Sa) 13. 10:54 AM - Re: How to bend rudder horn? (701) (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) 14. 12:19 PM - Re: Plane Fun Fly-in (Florida) (CBRxxDRV@aol.com) 15. 03:40 PM - Re: Plane Fun Fly-in (Florida) (Benford2@aol.com) 16. 03:41 PM - How to bend ruddder horn-701 () 17. 04:37 PM - Re: Fuel tank can-o-worms (john tarabocchia) 18. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: fuel quanity instumentation (john tarabocchia) 19. 06:44 PM - Re: Flying the 701 (Bob Miller) 20. 06:52 PM - ch701 for sale (Robert Hillebrand) 21. 08:07 PM - HDS rib #7A (Brandon Tucker) 22. 08:36 PM - Re: ch701 for sale (Brett Ray) 23. 09:50 PM - Still Lovin It!!!!!! (Bill Morelli) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:23 AM PST US From: "Eric Ingraham" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: How to bend rudder horn? (701) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Ingraham" The rudder horn I got from the factory was a piece of angle that required only some filing to bring it to shape, rond the corners ,etc......It took all of about 10 minutes....I think I've got some pics. send me an email if you need them......Hope that helps.....Eric From: awendt@uniserve.com Subject: Zenith-List: How to bend rudder horn? (701) --> Zenith-List message posted by: awendt@uniserve.com Hello All! I've searched hi and low as best as I could with my s l o w dial-up connection I get out here in the wilderness, but can't find a resource for how to bend the angle for the rudder horn. Beating it with a hammer won't do. Suggestions? Thanks! Armin (This is my first post, please be gentle) Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software optimizes dial-up to the max! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:19 AM PST US From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Plane Fun Fly-in (Florida) --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com Please print and post for others to see (southeast) South Lakeland Airport Homeowners and EAA Chapter UL149 Presents ***(Plane Fun Fly-In)*** Jan. 30, 2004 Fri., Jan. 31., Sat., Feb. 1, Sun. , South Lakeland Airport ( X49 ) Camp under your wing on Friday evening. Pancake breakfast in the morning, Hot dogs for lunch, and chili / soap for supper. Live Music! Forums, seminars, story telling, hanger flying planed. "FLEA MARKET" BUY AND SELL. Bring your "Stuff" Sunday morning will be coffee and donuts by the X-49ers (EAA UL149) www.PlaneFunFlyIns.8k.com Jay Kurtz 863-701-0000 or Dale Faux AntiqueAirways@aol.com Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:19 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank can-o-worms --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Thanks Larry. I will do a little research on how to seal the riveted tanks. I would just need slightly larger flanges than those on the tank in the plans. They really do some amazing stuff with the brazing on the site video. You might just want to take a little look at it. They even use it to repair an aluminum pop can they punched a hole in. http://www.aluminumrepair.com/login/main.asp Thnkas again David --- Larry McFarland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > > Fuel tank can-o-worms > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > > > > At the risk of sounding like an idiot, has anyone > had > > any experience with brazing aluminum tanks? > > David, > I'd recommend you look a little closer at riviting a > tank if you can't > get comfortable with TIG. The process is really > simple and the construction > can be seen on Piper Aircraft and others. > > I weld aluminum with either Oxy-Acetylene or TIG and > wouldn't touch > "brazing" > materials for aluminum or steel because of the risk > of getting cold-flow > joints. > It's not easy to test for either. > > With TIG, its like a sewing machine. With > Oxy-Acetylene, you have to be > very on > top of it to get it right. With rivets, you form, > punch or drill, fasten > and seal. There > are lots of examples of riveted tanks out there. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS close to the 98% done > www.macsmachine.com > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder Making Spars. Wing ribs all done. Scratchin Head on the fuel tanks. Elevator waiting for skins. Stab,Flaps,Ailerons and Rudder ready for inspection. __________________________________ http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:23 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How to bend rudder horn? (701) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, Armin I am building a 601, but I think the rudder is similar to the 701. To be sure, see http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/data/6-t-5.gif part 6T5-3 I managed to make a good part on my fourth attempt. I bent it on a vise, starting with a rectangle where all I had made was the bolt and relief holes. The location of the relief holes relative to the vide jaws is importan, or (1) the bend will be too far from it or (1) it will crack. That accounts for two of my attempts. The third one was good, but I was using a dremmel tool to shape a curve when it slipped and made a notchwhere none was required... BTW, I find the dremmel to be more of a liability than an asset, if you are note *very* careful with the darn thing. It assisted me in screwing up parts a number of times. You might want to make some partial horns just ro preactice... Be patient, measure often and be careful. Good luck Carlos --- awendt@uniserve.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: awendt@uniserve.com > > Hello All! > I've searched hi and low as best as I could with my s l o w dial-up connection > I get out here in the wilderness, but can't find a resource for how to bend the > angle for the rudder horn. Beating it with a hammer won't do. Suggestions? > Thanks! > Armin > (This is my first post, please be gentle) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:49 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How to bend rudder horn? (701) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 1/21/2004 5:20:02 AM Mountain Standard Time, iflyul@hotmail.com writes: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Ingraham" > > The rudder horn I got from the factory was a piece of angle that required > only some filing to bring it to shape, rond the corners ,etc......It took > all of about 10 minutes....I think I've got some pics. send me an email if > you need them......Hope that helps.....Eric > > > From: awendt@uniserve.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: How to bend rudder horn? (701) > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:42:42 -0800 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: awendt@uniserve.com > > Hello All! > I've searched hi and low as best as I could with my s l o w dial-up > connection > I get out here in the wilderness, but can't find a resource for how to bend > the > angle for the rudder horn. Beating it with a hammer won't do. Suggestions? > Thanks! > Armin > I can teel you that on my 801 kit the manual says to bend the horn to get it to line up with the cable fairlead. I ended up taking almost all the factory bend back out. My suggestion is to make it flat and massage it when you hang the rudder. Mine was not that difficult to bend. Maybe other 701 builders can expand on their experiences. Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wy ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:34 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Plane Fun Fly-in (Florida) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 1/21/2004 6:02:54 AM Mountain Standard Time, CBRxxDRV@aol.com writes: > > ***(Plane Fun Fly-In)*** Jan. 30, 2004 Fri., Jan. 31., Sat., Feb. 1, Sun. , > > South Lakeland Airport ( X49 ) Camp under your wing on Friday evening. > Pancake breakfast in the morning, Hot dogs for lunch, and chili / soap for > supper. > Live Music! Forums, seminars, story telling, hanger flying planed. > > My 801 is painted the same colors as the Tide detergent bottle. If I come will you eat my plane???? Ben Haas N801BH do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:49 AM PST US From: Mike Fothergill Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel quanity instumentation --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill Hi; mine works fine after 10 years & 1000+ hours. Mike UHS Spinners CH-601HDS C-FRND Joemotis@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com > > Does any one have any results good/bad on the Skysports capacitance fuel > quanity system? > Joe Motis > 601 XL > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:41 AM PST US From: "Bima, Martin" Subject: Zenith-List: Bending 701 rudder horn... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" I placed some rounded oak blocks in a vice with the rudder horn in between and then placed another wood block on the horn to protect it from my bashing dead blow hammer. There is a picture of this method in the old plans/manual. It can be done - slowly - just check the angle after a couple of blows. Martin STOL-Vair 710 Winnipeg, Canada Bending 701 rudder horn... I placed some rounded oak blocks in a vice with the rudder horn in between and then placed another wood block on the horn to protect it from my bashing dead blow hammer. There is a picture of this method in the old plans/manual. It can be done - slowly - just check the angle after a couple of blows. Martin STOL-Vair 710 Winnipeg, Canada ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: fuel quanity instumentation From: royt.or@netzero.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com Joe, I'm using Skysports fuel senders in my leading edge tanks and my wing locker tank of my CH601HDS. The senders work as expected. The senders in the leading edge tanks are mounted on the inboard side of the tank, the probe is bent down toward the bottom of the tank, then bent up so it extents to the upper most corner of the tank. The wind locker tank is top mounted. Note that the senders are linear, but the shape of the tank results in a non-linear reading on a standard gauge. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 160 hrs. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:13 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank can-o-worms --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell David: I got some of this rod, called alumaloy, at a farm show a few years back. I have tried it on several aluminum repairs and it either holds like a steel weld or not at all. I have had it look like a good weld and then just fall apart as soon as you pick the piece up and I have repaired a handle on a machine which was under extreme stress and it is still holding. I would not trust it for any thing critical in an airplane. Jack Russell David Barth wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Thanks Larry. I will do a little research on how to seal the riveted tanks. I would just need slightly larger flanges than those on the tank in the plans. They really do some amazing stuff with the brazing on the site video. You might just want to take a little look at it. They even use it to repair an aluminum pop can they punched a hole in. http://www.aluminumrepair.com/login/main.asp ============== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:53 AM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: Flying the 701 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:57:00 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" Brent's link to old Bernie (below) has in it a link to the best "How to Fly the 701" site I've ever seen. It's been mentioned in this forum previously but newer members might not be aware. http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/flying.htm >Several years ago this list was blessed by frequent posts from Bernie >Gunn, a 601 builder in New Zealand. >In case anyone might be wondering what one might do with a Zodie once >it's built, you have to visit this site: > http://www.alpinenz.com/index.html Thanks Brent. SnF '04? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:45 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank can-o-worms --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, Jack I'm not advocating the use of this product, but to be fair, they say: "Not to be confused with Alumaloy, Alumaweld, Alumarod, Durafix, Aladdin 3 in 1, or any other first generation rods,..." It looks impressive, but I wouldn't be willing to pioneer its use in my 601... Cheers Carlos * do not archive * --- Jack Russell wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell > > David: I got some of this rod, called alumaloy, at a farm show a few years back. I have tried it > on several aluminum repairs and it either holds like a steel weld or not at all. I have had it > look like a good weld and then just fall apart as soon as you pick the piece up and I have > repaired a handle on a machine which was under extreme stress and it is still holding. I would > not trust it for any thing critical in an airplane. > Jack Russell > > David Barth wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > Thanks Larry. > > I will do a little research on how to seal the riveted > tanks. I would just need slightly larger flanges than > those on the tank in the plans. > > They really do some amazing stuff with the brazing on > the site video. You might just want to take a little > look at it. They even use it to repair an aluminum pop > can they punched a hole in. > > http://www.aluminumrepair.com/login/main.asp > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:16 AM PST US From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How to bend rudder horn? (701) --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net The Dremel tool isn't much good on aluminum parts, it tends to grab the material and is so light it takes off in its own direction before you can react. A bench mounted belt or disk sander is much more useful. For shaping the aluminum fittings I usually just rough cut them with a hack saw and finished them either on a disk sander or by hand with a file. The Dremel might be easier to use if you clamp it to your bench and use sanding bits in it while holding the part in your hands. Grinding bits are useless for aluminum because they clog up so fast. Bryan Martin > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > BTW, I find the dremmel to be more of a liability than an asset, if you are note > *very* careful > with the darn thing. It assisted me in screwing up parts a number of times. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:59 PM PST US From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Plane Fun Fly-in (Florida) --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com In a message dated 1/21/04 10:16:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, Benford2@aol.com writes: > My 801 is painted the same colors as the Tide detergent bottle. If I come > will you eat my plane???? > > Ben Haas N801BH do not archive > Soup :)) not soap I may never live this down :) Sal Capra Lakeland, FL My Home Page http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:03 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Plane Fun Fly-in (Florida) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 1/21/2004 1:20:54 PM Mountain Standard Time, CBRxxDRV@aol.com writes: > > > My 801 is painted the same colors as the Tide detergent bottle. If I come > > will you eat my plane???? > > > > Ben Haas N801BH do not archive > > > > Soup :)) not soap I may never live this down :) > > Sal Capra > Lakeland, FL > My Home Page > http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html > > All of us Zenith builders are little different anyway... Ha ha . I hope to make Sun &Fun. if I do look me up and I will buy ya lunch. Ben Haas. N801BH do not archive. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:01 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: How to bend ruddder horn-701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Armin, I clamped the unbent rudder horn between two 1' pieces of steel angle and then placed that in a vice. A piece of wood alongside the exposed ruddder horn and several ( more than several ! ) good hits with a 4 lb. hammer achieved the desired bend. Worked up a bit of a sweat but that worked for me. Good luck. Peter ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:05 PM PST US From: "john tarabocchia" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank can-o-worms --> Zenith-List message posted by: "john tarabocchia" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" > > Don't do it! It is not as strong as welding and will break. If you > need them welded send them to me and I will weld them for you. That is > the business I am in. I make aluminum motorcycle parts and Harley > frames. I won't do it for free but I will do it for you cheap. If you > need it done just let me know. > > Brett Sub-Conscious business pitch. I riveted my tanks and resealed them. 130 hrs and 2.5 years later no sign of trouble. My first airplane, a Grumman Tiger that was 25 years old, never leaked. Records showed that the tanks were never resealed. Good track record. Welded tanks need to be removed from the wing then reworked. A sealed tank must have an access panel to construct. This panel also serves a way to re-seal the tank while in the wing. John Tarabocchia ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:31 PM PST US From: "john tarabocchia" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: fuel quanity instumentation --> Zenith-List message posted by: "john tarabocchia" > Joe, > > I'm using Skysports fuel senders in my leading edge tanks and my wing locker tank of my CH601HDS. The senders work as expected. > > The senders in the leading edge tanks are mounted on the inboard side of the tank, the probe is bent down toward the bottom of the tank, then bent up so it extents to the upper most corner of the tank. The wind locker tank is top mounted. Note that the senders are linear, but the shape of the tank results in a non-linear reading on a standard gauge. > > Regards, > > Roy > N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 160 hrs. > Hey Roy, How many gallons are your capable of carrying? John Tarabocchia ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:55 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying the 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Thanks Jeff, that is terrific info on flying the 701. Does anybody know of a similar site addressing the 601? Bob Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: Flying the 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" > > Brent's link to old Bernie (below) has in it a link to the best "How to Fly the 701" site I've ever seen. It's been mentioned in this forum previously but newer members might not be aware. > > http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/flying.htm > > >Several years ago this list was blessed by frequent posts from Bernie > >Gunn, a 601 builder in New Zealand. > > >In case anyone might be wondering what one might do with a Zodie once > >it's built, you have to visit this site: > > > http://www.alpinenz.com/index.html > > Thanks Brent. SnF '04? > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:53 PM PST US From: Robert Hillebrand Subject: Zenith-List: ch701 for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand As much as I hate to I have to sell my 90% complete 701. I live in the midwest.All you need to finish is tailfeathers,flaps and slats.With that done just add motor , firewall forward and paint you will have a finished ch701. I need to sell cause of other financial reasons. I'll let it go for a fare price --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:20 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: HDS rib #7A --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker HDS Builders, Does anyone have a rib #7a cad or other such drawing for the HDS wing. (leading edge tank) Respectfully, Brandon Tucker HDS 4078 working on le tanks __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:01 PM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ch701 for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" Let me know how much. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand > > As much as I hate to I have to sell my 90% complete 701. I live in the midwest.All you need to finish is tailfeathers,flaps and slats.With that done just add motor , firewall forward and paint you will have a finished ch701. I need to sell cause of other financial reasons. I'll let it go for a fare price > > > --------------------------------- > > > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > > > > > > -- Thanks Brett Ray owner Hog Air ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:28 PM PST US From: "Bill Morelli" Subject: Zenith-List: Still Lovin It!!!!!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" Well today, 1/21/2004, was the third anniversary of the first flight for my 601 HDS. Total flight time is 300.9 hours, 192 flights with 414 landings. It is still loads of fun and always puts a smile on my face when I fly the Zodiac. Do not archive. Bill